patrick.net

Be careful what you say about the Messiah in this Liberal cesspit called patrick.net.

rayray say

I hate President Obama.

Wah.

Wrong again ellie "I never insult anyone" mae. I don't hate anyone. But nice try attempting to put words in my mouth.

It's always interesting how the leftists in here almost never address the issue that is posted. I wonder why? Could it be they can't defend Obama's failed policies?? Any comments elliemae?? LOL

RayAmerica says

It’s always interesting how the leftists in here almost never address the issue that is posted. I wonder why? Could it be they can’t defend Obama’s failed policies?? Any comments elliemae?? LOL

Sure, I'll bite.

You used two question marks after an incomplete sentence. You also should have used a comma between the word "comments" and "elliemae." And your overuse of "LOL" renders it useless at this point. How'd I do?

Alright I'll address the issue: (socially liberal, financially conservative)

These home loan modification programs are all being called "failure" since so few loans are being saved. But nobody seems to have stopped to ask the question, is that really what success would be? stopping a foreclosure at any price? People lied on loans, bought homes they could never afford, others have lost high paying jobs they will never get again, so for how long should we subsidize this class of owners? Why is it morally better to pay the mortgage for an unemployed homeowner, meanwhile an unemployed renter will be evicted straight away?

I don't blame Obama because these programs keep failing, I blame him for starting them at all.

azrob00 says

I don’t blame Obama because these programs keep failing, I blame him for starting them at all.

Very well put. They had failure written all over them from the start, and yet, the Superior Being rammed them through.

I'm shocked .... SHOCKED that elliemae isn't defending Obama's failures. A very special LOL for you ellie.

DOW went from freefall down to 6000.. And recovered to nearly 12000 in ONE year... Name one president that steered us out of a freefall so quickly! Thats a huge accomplishment even if it may prove to double dip in the future... And u cant blame the freefall 6000 on Obama. He just walked in the door 3 months prior.. The man has accomplished more than anyone has expected... Hell most people on here are claiming housing is stabilizing on the west coast! Personally i still forsee a double dip crash coming but im impressed with how Obamas govt intervention allowed me to make all my money back on the stock market so quickly... Ill be selling soon before the next crash..

Let's be clear, loan modification is not a failed Obama proram, its just another in a never ending list of failed gvernment programs. "overnment is not the solution, government is the problem.

Lets try that again: Lets be clear, loan modification is not a failed Obama program, its just another in a long list of failed government programs. "Government is not the solution, government is the problem".

rmm221 says

DOW went from freefall down to 6000.. And recovered to nearly 12000 in ONE year… Name one president that steered us out of a freefall so quickly!

Pretty amazing observation. Please state exactly what Obama did to "steer" the DOW out of its "freefall."

Honest Abe says

Lets try that again: Lets be clear, loan modification is not a failed Obama program, its just another in a long list of failed government programs. “Government is not the solution, government is the problem”.

So you agree we should abolish standing armies, FBI, CIA, IRS, FDA, FCC, SEC, Coast Guard, Customs agencies, border patrol? Good, now we are getting somewhere.

RayAmerica says

Pretty amazing observation. Please state exactly what Obama did to “steer” the DOW out of its “freefall.”

Look at history.. A president's success is always determined by what occurred in the world around him during his presidency. During Bush's office we were struck with the worst terrorist attack on American soil on 9/11. Then we went to war and spent TRILLIONS on a tab we are still paying for...Then we had a devasting financial and housing crash and freefall that occurred on his watch... a freefall that was exasberated during Bush's lame duck months.. .similar to someone that trashes their apartment knowing they won't get their deposit back for the next guy.

Then Obama came along and within 3 months the stock market for WHATEVER reason started turning around...

If we don't double-dip and the stock market keeps recovering.. Most historians will attribute that to Obama's handling of his first year in office whether you like it or not.

Look at major league sports.. If you switch Managers or Coaches and the team starts winning.. The coach gets the credit.. Maybe you can't pin point the exact reason things turned around, but most would attribute it to the change in leadership.

Vicente says

So you agree we should abolish standing armies, FBI, CIA, IRS, FDA, FCC, SEC, Coast Guard, Customs agencies, border patrol?

They are all non economic entities and they do not interface in the economic free markets. Its when you have direct govenment interference via GSE that problems arise, as we have seen lately. So yes, we should do away with GSE like Fannie and Freddie. The money that was wasted on GSE would better have served goverment services like Customs and border patrols.

thomas.wong1986 says

The money that was wasted on GSE would better have served goverment services like Customs and border patrols.

Wait, I thought "Government is not the solution, government is the problem”. You didn't qualify your statement. NOW you are backing off from absolutes?

Please point us to a comprehensive list of agencies which do NOT affect the economy. I find it difficult to comprehend that standing armies and the Military Industrial Complex do not affect the economy. Nor FDA with it's regulations on food quality and drug standards. Customs gets in the way of utter freedom with regards to trade. What business of theirs is it what plants, pharmaceuticals, or money I bring in? Isn't that restraint of free trade and a perfectly efficient market? But please do go on.

The govement agencies you listed do not enter or compete in our Economic markets. As we have seen the GSE have entered economic markets and contributed to the financial mess. Would we be better off had GSE like Fannie and Freddie were disolved years ago. Certainly we be better off.

rmm221 says

Then Obama came along and within 3 months the stock market for WHATEVER reason started turning around…
If we don’t double-dip and the stock market keeps recovering.. Most historians will attribute that to Obama’s handling of his first year in office whether you like it or not.

Do you think maybe, just maybe, the DOW went up because interest rates are at historic lows, real estate is in the dumpster and investors have very limited options available to them in which to invest their money? If the stock market is such a great barometer on the health of the economy, how would you explain the Sucker's Rally of 1930, almost a full year after the great stock collapse of 1929? By all accounts, the Great Depression had already begun, and yet the DOW recovered nearly all its ’29 losses only to crash again. Do you give Herbert Hoover credit for that rally as well? The truth of the matter is this; presidents have very little they can do to improve the economy. Their enormous impact is more along the lines of the damage they can do with their reckless spending policies that removes valuable venture capital out of the free market. In the case of Obama, he has taken money from taxpayers, both present and future, and bailed out the criminal bankers and Wall Street manipulators. Obama’s policies to save the housing market from further collapse is also clearly failing. Proof of this will be further increases in foreclosures, housing price drops and a high percentage of failures amongst those that modified their loans.

RayAmerica says

Obama’s policies to save the housing market from further collapse is also clearly failing. Proof of this will be further increases in foreclosures, housing price drops and a high percentage of failures amongst those that modified their loans

Increase in foreclosures and falling prices is a good thing, how else do we get back to a normal market where a typical home buyer with typical income will afford a typical home. You would think with Obana economic experts one would have said to Obama, home prices only raise at rate of inflation over the long run, better you let the prices fall. Isnt this what goverment wanted for the past 15-20 years with its GSE mission, "affordable homes". Today they want the opposite, inflated "unaffordable" home prices with higher national debt to boot. How much more can you screw things up.

thomas .... Obama continues to bail out Fannie & Freddie, further enabling the drunks with a boat load of booze. When the real housing crash hits, housing will be very affordable. You'll be able to buy up prime properties for pennies on the dollar.

thomas.wong1986 says

They are all non economic entities and they do not interface in the economic free markets. Its when you have direct govenment interference via GSE that problems arise, as we have seen lately. So yes, we should do away with GSE like Fannie and Freddie. The money that was wasted on GSE would better have served goverment services like Customs and border patrols.

The Securities and Exchange Commission?

thomas.wong1986 says

Increase in foreclosures and falling prices is a good thing, how else do we get back to a normal market where a typical home buyer with typical income will afford a typical home. You would think with Obana economic experts one would have said to Obama, home prices only raise at rate of inflation over the long run, better you let the prices fall. Isnt this what goverment wanted for the past 15-20 years with its GSE mission, “affordable homes”. Today they want the opposite, inflated “unaffordable” home prices with higher national debt to boot. How much more can you screw things up.

So, at what point will you call it a "normal" market? Are you referring to the Bay Area or the United States in general?

RayAmerica says

thomas …. Obama continues to bail out Fannie & Freddie, further enabling the drunks with a boat load of booze. When the real housing crash hits, housing will be very affordable. You’ll be able to buy up prime properties for pennies on the dollar.

I get first dibs on a Marina Blvd. mansion. I want/need 3 stories, parking, 5000 sq ft +, a ballroom and a backyard large enough for a pool. I'm willing to pay up to $200K (across from the yacht club is ok, as I'm willing to wear ear~plugs to mask the sound from the fog~horns).

*tongue planted firmly in cheek

mabiawilliams says

The lenders gave a confused reaction on the event of the declaration of the Obama’s loan modification program early in March. It was apparently too much to be absorbed at a go, as the anxious home owners asked a series of questions to the lenders even before the lenders could successfully find answers to them.

Actually the real problem is that there are far too many hoops to jump through in order to qualify for the loan mod program. When it's all said and done, very few actually qualify, as evidenced by the small numbers that have successfully modified their loans.

RayAmerica says

thomas …. Obama continues to bail out Fannie & Freddie, further enabling the drunks with a boat load of booze. When the real housing crash hits, housing will be very affordable. You’ll be able to buy up prime properties for pennies on the dollar.

Pennies on which dollar ? Housing already is affordable for people with lots of dollars. So how does someone making zero dollars afford a house at pennies on the dollar when someone with alot of dollars is already in line ? Maybe a high enough paying job ? Seriously though, this country is in the final capitulation of debt - but- without jobs that capitulation keeps going and going and very few have enough real dollars to buy anything without debt. The housing days for the hard working middle class are basically a thing of the past. So that leaves aristocrats to buy all the housing.

marko ... ... you're seeing what debt does to people. Debt is a scam perpetrated on the working class in order to make them slaves to their debt and employment. Practically our entire economy is geared towards encouraging people to BUY now, PAY later, all with high interest. Home ownership typically is not a good deal for people that require financing, unless their ownership is coupled with fairly high, consistent, long term appreciation. Home "ownership" isn't ownership at all if you are financing. What it is in real terms is renting money for the term of the loan until the principle is paid back to the lender. In the mean time, you will be paying approximately 3X the loan amount (30 year fixed), will pay untold thousands to maintain the property, and have the joy in paying tens of thousands in property taxes and insurance. Historically, housing appreciates at an approximate rate of only 3%. If you have to borrow at all on a home, I strongly suggest you save and earn enough to buy a modest home on a short term of 10 or 15 years. That way, you’ll save an incredible amount of money. The only negative is you’ll be paying a higher payment every month, but your equity will quickly accumulate.

RayAmerica,

>>Debt is a scam perpetrated on the working class in order to make them slaves to their debt and employment.

Can't disagree with that, but the problem is that RayAmerica just does not understand that the libertarians and the republicans are NOT the friends of the working class. This is where the major disconnect is.

If Ray was thinking straight, he would understand that Obama is working hard on saving he working class, through Financial Reform and by prodding SEC into suing Goldman Sachs.

Meanwhile, the Republicans are wrapping themselves in the flag of free market fundamentalism and trying to PREVENT financial regulation, while PRETENDING to be the friend of the working class.

The main problem is that there is a large portion of the working class that believes in the Republican propaganda, which they have been spoon-fed ever since they were born.

justme

First, I'm neither a Republican or a Libertarian. Second, I find it pretty funny that you think the Democrats are not tied up with big corporations, banks, Wall Street, etc. To illustrate that point: the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act was a bi-partisan effort fueled by over $150 million in lobbyist money between 1997-98 alone. Glass-Steagall was passed during the Depression in order to control risky speculation and conflicts of interest by banks and insurance companies, etc. Without the repeal of this act, the subprime mortgage crisis would not have been possible. Neither would the zero down, interest only, etc. high risk Alt-A loans been possible. By the way, it was a Democrat President by the name of Bill Clinton that signed it into law. Yep, the same Democratic President that signed NAFTA into law, another piece of legislation that has done much to help BIG corporations to the detriment of the American worker. So don't give me this garbage that it's only the GOP, the Dems are just as bad. On another note: GE didn’t pay one dime in income taxes. They just so happen to be one of Obama’s biggest supporters. LOL

justme says

RayAmerica,
>>Debt is a scam perpetrated on the working class in order to make them slaves to their debt and employment.
Can’t disagree with that, but the problem is that RayAmerica just does not understand that the libertarians and the republicans are NOT the friends of the working class. This is where the major disconnect is.
If Ray was thinking straight, he would understand that Obama is working hard on saving he working class, through Financial Reform and by prodding SEC into suing Goldman Sachs.
Meanwhile, the Republicans are wrapping themselves in the flag of free market fundamentalism and trying to PREVENT financial regulation, while PRETENDING to be the friend of the working class.
The main problem is that there is a large portion of the working class that believes in the Republican propaganda, which they have been spoon-fed ever since they were born.

The only value the working class has for politicos is VOTES and TAXES. The SEC suing Goldman does nothing to save the working class. It is not a matter of Repub vs Dem it is more of a matter of power, prestige, and how to get the most out of other people's money . Dems and Repubs alike are in on it. Even unions stick it to the workers with their own form of taxes called "dues".

You got it marko ... you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

>>The only value the working class has for politicos is VOTES and TAXES.

This is what the very same libertarians and republicans want you to believe.

RayAmerica,

>>Second, I find it pretty funny that you think the Democrats are not tied up with big corporations, banks, Wall Street, etc

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I suppose arguing with what I actually said is too difficult for you.

justme says

RayAmerica,
>>Second, I find it pretty funny that you think the Democrats are not tied up with big corporations, banks, Wall Street, etc
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I suppose arguing with what I actually said is too difficult for you.

Sorry for "putting word in your mouth," but I did casually notice that you mentioned only GOPers and Libertarians and not the Democrats. LOL

justme says

>>The only value the working class has for politicos is VOTES and TAXES.
This is what the very same libertarians and republicans want you to believe.

The very same ones ? Really the very same ones ? I guess it is a good thing they want me to believe what I believe. Sounds free. I wouldnt want a politician to try and suppress what I believe just because I believe it. That would be more difficult

I really don't get all the hate and venom for Obama. Don't get me wrong, I didn't vote for him, but the way I see it, he's done nothing extraordinary. Any other guy/woman sitting at his place (except maybe Ron Paul... but hey, he never had a chance because he's so out there) would be running these futile rework programs. its a case of "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" IF you don't do anything, you'd be skewered for not doing anything about the common folk, but for the program to make any impact, its going to be way too costly and bankupt the country. So.. you just make a token gesture, that way you look like you tried but the mortgage companies didn't want to play along. Not unexpected.

Serpentor says

really don’t get all the hate and venom for Obama.

And yet, as evidenced by a few angry posters here, it's alive and well. I think that anger directed at the president alleviates them from accepting responsibility for their own lives. I'm not saying that to be mean, although I'm sure they'll take it that way. Every party I go to always has some pissed off guy ranting about the president, with an embarrassed wife or girlfriend standing nearby.

elliemae says

And yet, as evidenced by a few angry posters here, it’s alive and well.

Very funny statement coming from one of the angriest posters in this forum. All you ever read in her posts is hate and anger for anything that even remotely sounds conservative. I guess it's ok to hate as long as you are a leftie hating a rightie.

I hate all haters.

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

And yet, as evidenced by a few angry posters here, it’s alive and well.

Very funny statement coming from one of the angriest posters in this forum. All you ever read in her posts is hate and anger for anything that even remotely sounds conservative. I guess it’s ok to hate as long as you are a leftie hating a rightie.

Did you eat angry-o's this morning? I'm not hateful, but I am observant. And I don't appreciate being attacked constantly. I'd sure appreciate it if you would stop.

Back to rayray's original post:
a href="/post/29052#comment-675638">rayray says

Treasury is “very close” to announcing more changes to HAMP to help borrowers who are unemployed and who owe more on their mortgage than their homes are worth, Allison told reporters after the hearing.

“It’s not going to mean that all underwater mortgages are suddenly in the program, but there may be, could be, a modest increase in eligibility.” Allison said.

Seriously, someone who is unemployed and upside-down has no business remaining in a house that they can't afford. Perhaps when they get a job it'll be different.

Instead of figuring that the loan mod programs are failing, maybe it's the market working. I'm tired of people claiming that they were victimized because they bought toxic loans for places they never should have bought in the first place, or cashed out and bought alot of crap they couldn't afford.