patrick.net

Stew a Few already.

Hi "simchaland"

Its no longer, what 1879...get a clue.

Never said that "California is the best" - just that posters like you insult others all the while misrepresenting yourself as a Californian.

Homophobia is all over the country unfortunately. If the politics here in Cali bother you so much, then MOVE to the state that you feel best suits your beliefs!

Thanks! :)

~Misstrial

Misstrial says

Hi Tenouncetrout:
As a 5th-generation Californian, let me be the first to apologize for the racist statements made on this Forum towards Americans of European descent. My hispanic husband also extends his apologies.
My great-great grandparents came out West via the Oregon Trail to follow the Gold Rush and I can promise you they would be very distressed to learn of the race-baiting and racist statements being publicly flung around by certain individuals who fancy themselves to be better than they really are.
My family moved to SF 110 years ago and so I’m not just some transient or transplant from The Flyover who moved to the East Bay who feels confident in insulting other Americans because they now have a California locale under their avatar.
Just to make things clear and as confirmed by the SF Chronicle:
http://www.burbed.com/2007/12/17/map-of-the-real-bay-area-investor-free
Unfortunately, this situation that you experienced here on this Forum is exactly the main reason why all Californians are perceived to be one way and one way only: the problem is that rudies move here from The Flyover, get a California DL and then proceed to insult everyone else right and left because they feel superior due to their new location.
Hate to break it to these folks, but here’s the deal: Californians come in all political shades of blue and red and its SO NOT COOL and NOT CALIFORNIAN to insult *anyone* on the basis of their skin color. Ever.
We are a tolerant bunch, native Californians, and to openly insult someone for their politics is another Big No.
Real Californians do respect all views and I am sorry that someone who just moved here has annointed themself as Keeper of the Flame Eternal for all things political while representing themselves as a “Californian.”
When I read the racist comments in an above-post, it seemed like the arrogant opinions expressed by persons who moved to Santa Fe, NM from the MidWest/Rust Belt.
In NM, the NM natives are aware of this situation too: persons from the Midwest or Pennsylvania or Indiana or some other Rust Belt State move to Santa Fe and proceeds with the arrogant attitude cr@p towards everyone else in NM who lives elsewhere, particularly in small towns like Sorrocco or Las Cruces.
Breathtaking level of arrogance and “total-answerism” by these transplants - maybe its just cover for the fact they really come from nowhere town/city and now that they think they’ve “Arrived” they think they have a license to go out and insult everyone else who they feel fails to meet their standards. Incredible.
~Misstrial (who is a political Independent)

That might take the cake as the most ridiculous post I've ever read on here. And that's saying something..

Actually it cleared alot up for me.

I mean the Bay Area is the antithesis of "Liberalism" and Liberal views.
I find it odd that the very people that chide the rest of the country for barriers, inequality and class barriers , reminds the surrounding cretins they aren't one of "THEM".

Misstrial says

Hi “simchaland”
Its no longer, what 1879…get a clue.
Never said that “California is the best” - just that posters like you insult others all the while misrepresenting yourself as a Californian.
Homophobia is all over the country unfortunately. If the politics here in Cali bother you so much, then MOVE to the state that you feel best suits your beliefs!
Thanks!
~Misstrial

Um yeah, I don't "misrepresent" myself as Californian. I live in Oakland. I'm a Midwesterner at heart and always will be. I would consider it an insult to be called a "Californian" after what I've observed living here for almost 8 years.

The general culture of California is one of the most extremely inhospitable and unwelcoming I've ever experienced in my world travels. This is saying a lot.

I'm proud to be a somewhat open and friendly Midwesterner who isn't trapped by the dogma that passes for "Liberal" and "Conservative" in California. I've also had the benefit of a real education and consider myself very fortunate that I've never had to rely on California public schools for any of my education because this state has the worst educational system in the country. And I'm free from the "I'm so very special" attitude that most Californians seem to exhibit along with strong leanings toward extreme narcissism.

With all due respect, I would never in 1,000,000 years insult myself by calling myself a "Californian." And the only reason why I'm staying among Californians is because I've met enough decent transplants from "flyover" states, as you all call them here, who understand how to be friendly, polite, and foster community. And my Midwestern family moved here too.

I hope that we transplants can educate you narcissistic Californians that superficial materialism and whacked-out ideologies are no replacement for a sense of community and neighborliness.

California isn't a liberal state. It's quite conservative. Even the people who call themselves "liberals" here tend to be quite unbending in their dogma of what it means to be "liberal." True Liberals accept differences and embrace them. California "liberals" have an ideology that excludes anyone who doesn't agree with their brand of "liberalism." California conservatives are just as pathetically attached to their ideologies and can't think for themselves either. I blame it on your education system here. From what I've seen most Californians don't know how to think for themselves.

And no, it's not 1879. It's 2010. It's only 2 years after Californians decided to write bigotry and hate into their constitution yet again like in 1879. So we gays are "partying like it's 1879" all over again thanks to the whack-jobs in this state.

"simchaland"

Can't wait for you to go back to where you came from as I am tired of transients misrepresenting Californians to the rest of America!

Thanks!

~Misstrial

Tenouncetrout says

Actually it cleared alot up for me.
I mean the Bay Area is the antithesis of “Liberalism” and Liberal views.

I find it odd that the very people that chide the rest of the country for barriers, inequality and class barriers , reminds the surrounding cretins they aren’t one of “THEM”.

Yeah, you not "here" until you're "there."

That's the way its always been and always will be. Even the native Chumash had it over the Alikliks of Gorman and Paiutes of the High Desert because they were "coast." LOL

~Misstrial

Misstrial,

I'm here to stay. Get used to it. So, you uneducated, rude, narcissistic, vapid, and rigid Californians may have to learn to become human beings after all.

Good luck. I'm not sure you guys have the capacity for becoming real human beings, but time will tell.

simchaland says

Misstrial,
I’m here to stay. Get used to it. So, you uneducated, rude, narcissistic, vapid, and rigid Californians may have to learn to become human beings after all.
Good luck. I’m not sure you guys have the capacity for becoming real human beings, but time will tell.

Wow.

You just revealed yourself as being everything I posted above.

God help us here in California.

Just remember to stay off the 580 and 880 when you are particularly angry.

~Misstrial

francophile100 says

This thread is really getting stupid. That being said, as a midwestern transplant since 1975, and a survivor of the CA public school system, I’m glad to reside in the “Real Bay Area” LOL

LOL ;)

~Misstrial

francophile100 says

This thread is really getting stupid. That being said, as a midwestern transplant since 1975, and a survivor of the CA public school system, I’m glad to reside in the “Real Bay Area” LOL

Agreed, this thread has gotten quite stupid. I added to it. I guess I felt like being entertained. *sigh*

And I'm proud to live in "Not the real Bay Area." That way I would never have to claim status as a BayAryan, an extremely crippling condition, to be sure. *wink*

Misstrial says

simchaland says

Misstrial,
I’m here to stay. Get used to it. So, you uneducated, rude, narcissistic, vapid, and rigid Californians may have to learn to become human beings after all.
Good luck. I’m not sure you guys have the capacity for becoming real human beings, but time will tell.

Wow.
You just revealed yourself as being everything I posted above.
God help us here in California.
Just remember to stay off the 580 and 880 when you are particularly angry.
~Misstrial

Oh, and one other thing... You people can't even drive. Did any of you get anything out of Driver's Ed or did they cut that from your educational system too along with geography, history, physical education, art, music, philosophy, civics, and political science?

simchaland says

Misstrial says

simchaland says

Misstrial,

I’m here to stay. Get used to it. So, you uneducated, rude, narcissistic, vapid, and rigid Californians may have to learn to become human beings after all.

Good luck. I’m not sure you guys have the capacity for becoming real human beings, but time will tell.

Wow.

You just revealed yourself as being everything I posted above.

God help us here in California.

Just remember to stay off the 580 and 880 when you are particularly angry.

~Misstrial

Oh, and one other thing… You people can’t even drive. Did any of you get anything out of Driver’s Ed or did they cut that from your educational system too along with geography, history, physical education, art, music, philosophy, civics, and political science?

OMG "you people" - LOL

Keep it up, just keep it up! I'm sure readers are getting some laughs at your expense now. LOL

~Misstrial

Wow, you must be too narcissistic to see that even I'm laughing at my own posts, and yours too. Do you actually think I put any weight on your opinions? And do you seriously think that I think so much about myself that I take my own posts as seriously as you do?

^^now trying to rewrite history^^ LOL

(btw, Due to your meltdown, you've shot any future opportunity on this Forum to pass yourself off as being a tolerant liberal.)

~Misstrial

Misstrial says

^^now trying to rewrite history^^ LOL
(btw, Due to your meltdown, you’ve shot any future opportunity on this Forum to pass yourself off as being a tolerant liberal.)
~Misstrial

LOL, you think so, don't you. But alas, you are proving my point with every post you make. The difference is that I don't particularly care about what my reputation is on some obscure forum on the Internet using a pseudonym. I think I expressed elsewhere around here that I'm here for entertainment. I like political dialogue and economics. Sometimes both kinds of discussions happen here. Other times, it's just about entertainment. This thread? It's mostly entertainment. Not much of substance happening here...

This is turning into a Teapartiers Hell!

Tenouncetrout says

This is turning into a Teapartiers Hell!

Should we start singing "Kumbaya" and "We Shall Overcome" while enrolling everyone in a nationalized health care system? Would that finally make it into a Teapartier's Hell? LOL!

I can throw in bank bail outs and anti-gun laws to seal the deal, if you'd like.

RayAmerica says

Wow! What horrible anti-American concepts! It is terribly anti-American to be against war and imperial expansionism.

Anti-American? Of course not, silly. It's RACIST!

Nomograph says

Misstrial says

Can’t wait for you to go back to where you came from as I am tired of transients

Do you blame her too for your inability to afford your Malibu Barbie dream house? I’m just curious.

I don't blame anyone for anything that I have or don't have. I got to play with the Malibu Barbie dream house all I wanted with a girlfriend I had growing up. I even have a "Jewess Barbie" that a boyfriend bought me when I turned 30 along with a giant Barbie sheet cake. "Jewess Barbie" came with dark brown curls and a silver and blue ballroom gown. So, I don't lack for anything Barbie.

Oh, I'm sorry, I was mistaken. LOL! I was entertained though. And by the way, I'm a dude! Huh?! What? Yeah, it's true. I'm a gay dude.

I didn't realize that MissPrincess didn't get her Malibu mansion that she worked so hard to get but didn't because of the evil Baby Boomers. Hmmm, come to think of it, that's another critique I have of Californians. Not only do they seem to think that each one of them is so very special, they also believe that the world owes them because, well, they said so... LOL!

simchaland says

Oh, I’m sorry, I was mistaken. LOL! I was entertained though. And by the way, I’m a dude! Huh?! What? Yeah, it’s true. I’m a gay dude.

A gay dude with a jewess Barbie? Did she have mini-plastic surgery scars? If not, she's not a real jewess Barbie and you got taken...

I lost the meaning of the thread somewhere around Misstrial's rant.

Misstrial says

Real Californians do respect all views and I am sorry that someone who just moved here has annointed themself as Keeper of the Flame Eternal for all things political while representing themselves as a “Californian.”

"Real" Californians? What a crock! A "real" Californian is someone who lives there. If you move there, you're a "real" Californian & certainly don't have to be there 110 years to prove it. And there are horrible racists bigots who've lived there many years and people who moved there recently who are wonderful and tolerant of others. Even gay dudes with fake jewess Barbies (no offense, Sim - but as a jewess we actually drew little scars on our Barbies so they'd look like our mommies) can be considered "real."

I'm woefully lost on this one, but

Misstrial says

^^now trying to rewrite history^^ LOL
(btw, Due to your meltdown, you’ve shot any future opportunity on this Forum to pass yourself off as being a tolerant liberal.)
~Misstrial

...is one of the oddest comments here.

elliemae says

simchaland says

Oh, I’m sorry, I was mistaken. LOL! I was entertained though. And by the way, I’m a dude! Huh?! What? Yeah, it’s true. I’m a gay dude.

A gay dude with a jewess Barbie? Did she have mini-plastic surgery scars? If not, she’s not a real jewess Barbie and you got taken…

Wow, I guess I did get taken. Well, at least I dumped his ass shortly after, so I feel better about it now. lol

I lost the meaning of the thread somewhere around Misstrial’s rant.

You too? I thought it was just me.

Misstrial says

Real Californians do respect all views and I am sorry that someone who just moved here has annointed themself as Keeper of the Flame Eternal for all things political while representing themselves as a “Californian.”

“Real” Californians? What a crock! A “real” Californian is someone who lives there. If you move there, you’re a “real” Californian & certainly don’t have to be there 110 years to prove it. And there are horrible racists bigots who’ve lived there many years and people who moved there recently who are wonderful and tolerant of others. Even gay dudes with fake jewess Barbies (no offense, Sim - but as a jewess we actually drew little scars on our Barbies so they’d look like our mommies) can be considered “real.”

Damnit! I was trying to avoid being labeled a "Californian." It's so demeaning and insulting. Alas, you do have a point. I'm a California resident and all. And I guess I've lived here for 8 years. So, my claim to still being a Chicagoan or Midwesterner still might be as fake as my Barbie. Damnit! BTW, did I mention that I dumped his ass?

I’m woefully lost on this one, but
Misstrial says

^^now trying to rewrite history^^ LOL

(btw, Due to your meltdown, you’ve shot any future opportunity on this Forum to pass yourself off as being a tolerant liberal.)

~Misstrial

…is one of the oddest comments here.

Darn, and I was so looking forward to infiltrating Conservative Headquarters. I've always wanted to play with a life-sized Barbie and I hear they have a big one there from Alaska who was a beauty queen!

Yes - you mentioned the dumping. But you sound a little wistful - is it because you weren't left with a realistic Barbie, or that at least he got one with color-coordinated shoes?

Sorry, but you are a "real" Californian. I, too, am one - even tho I don't live there any longer. I was born there, lived there the first part of my life, have family that goes back to the 1920's... But I'm also a real Utahn... I just realized something:

My name is Elliemae, and I'm a real American - even if I can't see Russia from my house.

Yeah, she's all plastic looking 'n stuff (so there's some resemblance to the women in my family) but there are no scars and the shoes don't match the bag. I got really gypped. And you know what's even worse? She didn't come with a real 3 carat diamond ring! The nerve!

Damn, now do I have to start eating Real Happy Californian Cheese from Real Happy Californian Cows?

And didn't you have to become a Mormon, or rather a LDS, to become a resident of Deseret, um, I mean, Utah?

And you must be waaaaay more "Real Californian" than me since you have family that goes back to the 1920's here. I have family who were here in the 1930's and then family that settled here later in the 1960's to stay permanently. But by Missthang's definition, you're waaay more Californian than me.

Not LDS. Never considered converting. Depending upon where you live, people are very tolerant of your choice to remain a heathen. Utah, the only state where a Jew can be a gentile.

You obviously didn't catch my diatribe on the definition of a "real" Californian. Let me put it in simple terms - you live there, you're real. You can eat whatever cheese you would like, but please don't cut the cheese in front of a plastic woman. She lacks the ability to wrinkle her nose, making her an unhappy cow.

That was udderly ridiculous. I hope you don't have a beef with that comment. Where's Mikey when we need him?

simchaland says

And by the way, I’m a dude! Huh?! What? Yeah, it’s true. I’m a gay dude.

Is it too soon into Simcha's coming out party to start making jokes like...gay dude + grizzly bear avatar = hilarious joke?

We could really use Mikey right about now.

CBOEtrader says

Is it too soon into Simcha’s coming out party to start making jokes like…gay dude + grizzly bear avatar = hilarious joke?
We could really use Mikey right about now.

Mikey's intervention here would be a hairy post for sure, and I'm not sure that I'd be able to bear it.

I'll meet you all at the Lone Star in SOMA for a drink after work.

[Somalia is] so perfect for the Baggers — they are anti-government; there is NONE— thus, no taxes — strict adherence to the Right to Bear Arms; everyone has RPGs and automatic rifles and grenades

HAW HAW, YUCK YUCK, you really showed them wingnuts with that analogy. The US is funded by Al Queda terrorists, just like Somalia.. and the "Baggers" oppose law enforcement and national defense, right? With such a close correlation to Tea Bagger utopia, we should rename Somalia to be 'Baggerstan'. HAW HAW

Tea Party detractors use simpleton analogies like this all the time: "If you oppose massive government interference in health care and banking, you must therefore oppose ALL govt". Tiny little minds

What is this obsession with disparaging those who choose to link themselves with the Tea Party? Are we supposed to believe that it is impossible someone oppose the recent Health Care Reform bill unless that person is a racist. If that is the case, then I guess Mish (who Patrick links to frequently) is secretly a member of the KKK. If a person believes taxes are too high, does that mean the person supports a return to slavery? I don't understand the logic behind the invective. Are there people out there holding horrible signs? I'm sure there are, just as there are people protesting at the funerals of dead marines. Am I to assume that since there are religious wackos protesting at marine funerals, this means that all people who oppose the war in Iraq do so because they believe God is punishing this country for homosexuality? If a person happens to agree with the Taxed Enough Already idea, why shouldn't they go out and make their voices heard? There are currently people making their voices heard in Illinois asking for higher taxes; let them have their say, listen to what they say, and debate them on the merits of their arguments. If their arguments have no merits, their influence will be short-lived and negligible.

As much as it might pain people on both sides to admit it, there are logical people on each side of these debates. Plato and Aristotle had differences of opinion, does this make one of them a fool or illogical? And crazy as this may sound, pointing to the behavior of Congress or Presidents does not invalidate the arguments of the layman. Just because Bush wasted a lot of money does not mean that every conservative supported that waste, and ignoring an argument by referring to actions in the past (that individual voters have pretty much no control over) is not a way to prove a point. So to argue that Obama spending trillions of dollars on something is unimportant because Bush also spent trillions ignores the fact that there are a sizable number of people who didn't like when Bush did it and still don't like it when Obama does it. When you consider the approval ratings for Bush in his second term, it seems fair to say that a lot of the people not happy with Obama weren't happy with Bush either. It is not an either/or situation. Nor does misrepresenting the positions of a movement do anything to discredit that movement. For example, to label the Tea Party as "anti-government" shows little critical thought. As far as I can tell, the movement is anti-taxes and government spending, which is hardly to be "anti-government." The Federalist and the Anti-Federalists got into similar arguments, and neither side was "anti-government." Each side views the role of government differently (and there are certainly members of the Tea Party who are anti-government, just as there were anti-government anarchists among those who protested the Iraq war, every movement will attract its share of extremists), and each side often has history on its side. If it were as simple as many people would like to make it out to be, there would be no disagreement. If all economists agreed that stimulus spending was the way to handle recessions, then that is what we would do. If everyone agreed that the costs of having overseas military bases was not offset in some way by perceived security interests, then we would close our bases. The key is to engage people and discuss situations, so that maybe one day we can agree. It serves no purpose to issue blanket statements like Obama is a a Socialist without offering examples, just as it serves no purpose to issue blanket statements such as those who believe Obama is a Socialist don't understand what Socialism is without backing it up by offering a justification for the statement. Part of the problem is that not even experts can agree on what constitutes Socialism, so almost everyone is working from a different definition (and dictionary definitions are frequently awful considering most dictionaries omit corporatism as an aspect of Fascism). It doesn't help that the USSR itself did not fit the dictionary definition of Socialist or Communist, nor did Mussolini's Italy. When the average person calls someone a "communist," they don't mean the word in the same way that Marx would have meant it, and to not recognize the eccentricities of language leads to semantic arguments that don't advance the discussion. If we can't agree on what Socialism is, obviously we won't agree on whether or not Obama is a Socialist. If I had my way, we would drop the use of labels such as these entirely; Socialist is about as useful a label as Neocon is at this point, since somehow in common conversation Neocon has lost its original meaning of a pro-military, ostensibly fiscally conservative but socially liberal individual.

The real question is this: what is added to the political discussion by posts such as this one? All this seems to indicate is that there are people who have already made up their minds about the potential validity of any argument the other side makes, which continues to contribute to the polarized nature of national politics, and the illusion that every issue is a blanket split between Right and Left. To attempt to construct a typical conservative is going to be a difficult prospect, because there are so few issues that all conservatives agree on that not everyone agrees on (pretty much the only issue likely to get 100 percent support from all self-identified conservatives is a distaste for wasting money, but my guess is that liberals don't particularly care for wasting money either; and not all conservatives agree on what constitutes wasting money anyway). I would argue that no political affiliation is more split than "conservative" when you consider the fact that cultural conservatives and libertarians disagree on almost all social issues. It's about as futile to call someone a conservative as it is to attempt to discern what or what does not make someone a real Californian (especially considering the majority of the country considers to self-identify as conservative, yet the supposedly liberal Democrats continue to win elections, and it is a fair guess that Obama must have attracted some self-identified conservatives to vote for him).

CBOEtrader says

RayAmerica says
Wow! What horrible anti-American concepts! It is terribly anti-American to be against war and imperial expansionism.

CBOEtrader says:
Anti-American? Of course not, silly. It’s RACIST!

That goes without saying. Everyone knows if you're white, you are a racist. BTW, any idea how many whites belong to the Congressional Black Caucus?

ahasuerus99 says

What is this obsession with disparaging those who choose to link themselves with the Tea Party? Are we supposed to believe that it is impossible someone oppose the recent Health Care Reform bill unless that person is a racist.

What's strange as these with this obsession identify them selves as an "American"(and rightly so, that aint the point) but they don't identify them selves as a "Republican" let alone a "Tea Party" supporter. They identify them selves as Democrats or what ever branch of the Liberal Left they may identify with. While they may not identify with every idea in what embodies the Left. They can not imagine that while Tea Party supporters may Identify with much of what the Tea Party is saying, without identifying with some of the people that also identify with those issues, such as against the Federal Rim job we've been getting for over ten years now. This isn't all about Obama You know.

This revolt against Big Gov-> Big Biz -> Big Gov, has been coming for years. If Bush Sr. had been black then Ross Pero would be the brunt of all this Leftward fervor then.

If I do recall, his supporters at first, were written off as Gomer Fudd, which only made his popularity even stronger. Though Ross was his own demise with "I'm in! I'm out! I'm in! I'm out!"

ahasuerus99 says

What is this obsession with disparaging those who choose to link themselves with the Tea Party? Are we supposed to believe that it is impossible someone oppose the recent Health Care Reform bill unless that person is a racist. If that is the case, then I guess Mish (who Patrick links to frequently) is secretly a member of the KKK. If a person believes taxes are too high, does that mean the person supports a return to slavery? I don’t understand the logic behind the invective. Are there people out there holding horrible signs? I’m sure there are, just as there are people protesting at the funerals of dead marines. Am I to assume that since there are religious wackos protesting at marine funerals, this means that all people who oppose the war in Iraq do so because they believe God is punishing this country for homosexuality?

This is the philosophical free fall that conservatives assume is running through Liberal minds without actually being curious as to why Liberals find the Tea Party demonstraters so offensive.

The conclusions you draw are illogical. Just because we Liberals don't like the racist tone of the Tea Party doesn't mean that we believe that all criticism of Obama and his administration is racist. I, and many other Liberals, have voiced similar critiques of Obama and his administration here and elsewhere. That doesn't make us racist. The anti-government and anti-tax and even some of the anti-Obama sentiment in the Tea Party isn't racism.

Signs that depict Obama as a monkey, calling him a Muslim as if this would be an insult, claiming he's a Kenyan, depicting him as a witch doctor, claiming that somehow "we have lost our country" (and it has nothing to do with the health care debate), having signs that depict a noose saying that "there's gonna be a hangin'" and making claims that somehow Obama must be a socialist and communist while being fascist (and this isn't possible if you understand these political ideologies) create an atmosphere that appears racist.

If the Tea Party demonstrators would passionately argue for less government, lower taxes, less regulation, while offering real solutions to our country's problems then we Liberals would be able to have an actual honest real debate about the issues. Instead we are confronted with racial epithets being hurled at legislators and even people spitting on certain legislators simply for being black or gay.

The message is lost in a sea of hate. That's the problem I have with the Tea Party as an American Liberal. I find their mindset anti-American. We are supposed to live in a country that encourages freedom of expression while at the same time allowing others to express themselves freely so that honest political debate can take place that can lead to real solutions through cooperation, even when we passionately disagree. This is what is lost in the message sent by the demonstrations put on by the Tea Party organizers. It's the American notion that we are ALL Americans, whatever our beliefs, color, ethnicity, etc. and that we can argue passionately about our different views while forming collaborative and hard fought solutions to our most pressing problems that is missing in the Tea Party. The Tea Party shuts down debate. They hurl insults and slogans without offering any solutions and without showing the willingness to sit down and have an honest debate where collaboration and compromise can happen.

Our government is supposed to work collaboratively and compromise is written into the system with checks and balances. That's why each branch only holds 1/3 of the power each. That's why it's healthy to have people from all parts of the political spectrum holding office in our three branches of government. It's the strength of our American political institutions to collaborate, debate, and compromise. That's not possible with the current state of affairs concerning the Tea Party.

They show up with guns. They show up with offensive signs. They shut down any opposition by shouting over anyone who disagrees with them. Remember the town halls during the health care "debates." I use quotes around the word "debates" because they weren't debates. They were conventions where Tea Party members shut down any chance at debate by shouting over anyone who disagreed with their agenda. That's anti-American. That's not how the Founding Fathers came together to form our system of government.

That is a list of the problems I have as an American Liberal with the Tea Party.

Debate, disagreement, opposition, critique, criticism, and passion are all part of the American experience in government. Thug tactics like shouting down anyone who disagrees, spitting on legislators, yelling racial epithets, yelling homophobic epithets, bringing guns to demonstrations where elected officals are to "enforce" your point, and attempting to define your opposition with illogical ad hominem attacks is Anti-American. It's the tyranny of a mob.

Hello in there McFly!

Newt Gingrich said that he expects the Tea Party movement to evolve into "the militant wing of the Republican Party" at a speaking engagement in Pennsylvania on Wednesday night, the York Dispatch reports.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/22/newt-gingrich-tea-party-t_n_548250.html

Gingrich has also previously said Tea Party leaders "understand that in the end their job is to help defeat Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi"

http://vodpod.com/watch/3379691-gingrich-tea-party-leaders-understand-that-in-the-end-their-job-is-to-help-defeat-harry-reid-and-nancy-pelosi-media-matters-for-america

Any idea of being independent or third party is thus either fantasy or smoke screen. The slogan of "vote them ALL out" is laughable & a lie on it's face because it doesn't apply to Republicans. I suppose it's possible Gingrich is lying about all this, or mistaken. If so, the Tea Party should correct Gingrich and demonstrate that they are not merely a Republican faction by actions.

I'm waiting to see who they Ultimately back as Candidate and on what ticket they run, before I really cast my lot. And by that I actually mean take serious.

I never cared for changing one "Group" to another. It's all about the face and the man in the end that gets thrown out front. I can get the rest from how sincere that person is, based on his campaign rhetoric.

It's like my propensity to put a face to the food, and they need to match. I don't want to see Earl Rodgers making my Fried rice Sechuan Beef, no more than I'm interested in Luis Carbajal making Memphis Ribs or Sushi.

These "Grassroots" sham groups have a knack of putting the wrong c(r)ook out front, and every one eats what ever they dish out, because they look stunning in that Chefs hat.

elliemae says

That was udderly ridiculous. I hope you don’t have a beef with that comment. Where’s Mikey when we need him?

Where's the beef? I don't understand how Mikey, who won't eat it because he hates everything, can help us here. Are you trying to tell me that the plastic beings who stand as matriarchs of my family have a bovine nature? They told me that they are Divine. But that can't be true either since she's been dead since March 7, 1988 and I don't think that any of them have ever starred in a John Waters film. Pink flamingos and desperate living can have a real impact on women who live in trailers. And what about the tornadoes and their attraction to trailer parks, or is it that tornadoes are attracted to pink flamingos? I get so confused.

Babs!!!