patrick.net

CBOE said: "... look Jewish .... "

so, I just gotta know, what do you mean by that?

CBOEtrader says

I am fascinated by your story. If you feel comfortable discussing it, tell me this, do you think people have given you more shit for being Jewish than for being gay? Just curious.

It's good to hear that people in Chicago haven't succumbed to the type of Bay Area Ultra Leftist anti-Semitism or Anti-Israeli mindset.

I grew up in the Northwestern Suburbs of Chicago. My Dad was half Italian and half Polish. My Mom's Mom's family is Jewish even though many of them had tried to deny it, and that's a story unto itself. My Mom's Dad's side is half Native American and Northwest European mix. I'm quite the mutt, so why I got the curly brown hair, the nose, and other "tells" that make me look Jewish, I'll never know. Genetics is interesting...

Growing up I never really considered myself very Jewish at all since Dad wanted Catholic kids. So I was raised a Roman Catholic with Italian, Polish, and Russian/Viennese (Vienna, Austria) Jewish culture. Mom's Dad's family was and still is in the West.

We weren't considered "White" in Northwestern Suburban Chicago. If your name ended with a vowel or sounded Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, or Greek, you were not considered to be "White." If you were Roman Catholic, you most certainly were suspect too. My Dad was told after 15 years of teaching and distinction as a high school English teacher that he shouldn't even bother applying for higher positions with the school district because, as his principal told him, "Bob, your name ends with a vowel. They'll never promote you." That was in the mid to late 80's. I was a late teen by then.

Jews weren't considered "White" either. In Cicero, IL (on the border of Chicago) Jews and African Americans and Latinos weren't allowed to live there until the late 60's and even in the 70's these groups took their lives in their own hands if they moved there.

Even in the late 90's and early 2000's there were still "Dinner Clubs" and "Country Clubs" that didn't allow Jews or African Americans. One of my Jewish bosses joined a special "Supper Club" that allowed people of all races to join and that was considered a big deal in the late 90's.

So, growing up I was called a "Deigo," "WOP (Without Papers)," and "Polack," often. In fact what we call "wife beaters" (white sleeveless t-shirts) in California were called "Deigo Tees" even in ads on television when they were on sale when I was growing up in the Chicago Area. And even with all the name calling we kids thought it was "normal" because everyone had a derogatory term that they were called. Even "Anglo" white people were called WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants). Irish people were called "Micks." Latin people were "Spics" etc...

I came out when I was 24 when still living in the Northwest Suburbs of Chicago. Back then, the Suburbs were socially liberal and fiscally conservative and they voted Republican. I never had an issue being gay where I grew up. Everyone in town knew me anyway and those who liked me still liked me. Those who didn't still didn't.

However, I did work in Clarendon Hills for a few years and I was fired when the boss found out I was gay. That's in DuPage County. It's known for being fairly Fundamentalist Christian. In fact at that job I was asked, "Are you Jewish? Because we don't celebrate Jewish Holidays in this office." I was stunned. I knew that "technically" I was Jewish due to having a Jewish Mother who had a Jewish Mother and that I knew what brisket, bagels, lox, kugel, Manischewitz, Streits, and Latkes were and had eaten these things with some regularity. I just hadn't stopped being Catholic yet and I hadn't become somewhat religiously Jewish yet. So I was really freaked out by the question. And I wondered how they knew that I was "part Jewish" as I thought of myself then.

In Davenport, Iowa I had no problems being gay there. I did experience some epithets thrown my way from Christian Fundamentalists who were constantly picketing outside of Planned Parenthood locations there though. In Davenport, Iowa being Jewish was the largest non-issue ever. And they thought I was "white" because I'm quite fair even though my last name is Italian.

Then I moved here. People here perceive me as "White." And they perceive me as "straight." That really pisses me off. I hate being mistaken for straight. I've had only minor issues with being gay here and it's rare to come across someone who openly expresses their dislike of gay people here.

However, being Jewish here is a BIG DEAL. I was amazed when I first moved here the first time I was yelled at in Berkeley by a man who was selling bumper stickers and flying a Palestinian flag. He called me a "Zionist" and "Colonizer." Then he tried to tell me how "my government" and "my people" torture and kill Arabs daily and that somehow it was my fault. At first I was stunned. Then I got pissed and wasn't as sophisticated as I would have liked in my response. In fact I think I simply said some version of "F**k Y**" and walked away.

Since then I've learned to accept that these people populate the streets of Oakland, Berkeley, and San Francisco and that there is no reasoning with them. They are going to believe whatever they want to believe and nothing will change that. All I can do is act with dignity and provide educated, calm, and dignified responses if cornered and simply walk away. I feel better that way.

So, I'd have to say that here I get way more shit for being Jewish than being gay. In Chicago I got more shit for being gay, in fact I got jumped by three guys once when I was on a second date. Those guys ran off like little girls when they realized I was no "sissy." And there was that Clarendon Hills job where I got fired once the boss found out about my gayness.

So, I'd say it's a draw.

Bap33 says

CBOE said: “… look Jewish …. ”
so, I just gotta know, what do you mean by that?

6'2'', 225 lb, blue eyes, blond hair with a huge...um...personality.

simchaland says

I hate being mistaken for straight.

This line was hilarious.

Also very funny:

simchaland says

Those guys ran off like little girls when they realized I was no “sissy.”

I enjoyed the life story. You write well.

It is interesting that negative gay epithets are such a huge no-no in the bay area, yet it is ok to talk shit about Jews. Curtural norms are powerful influences.

On the trading floors in Chicago, there is nothing worse than being considered "gay" but "Jewish" is a coveted descriptive term. My first day of work, my new southside-Irish boss told me his "three Jew rule." I was told, "If you see three Jews on a trade, you should do anything you can to also be on that trade." Sounds like a joke, but he was serious.

I have also heard from my Jewish pals that there used to be signs outside of Winnetka saying "no jews or blacks allowed" IN THE FRICKEN TOWN ITSELF, not just in their clubs--but that was back in the early 70's.

CBOEtrader says

Bap33 says

CBOE said: “… look Jewish …. ”

so, I just gotta know, what do you mean by that?

6′2”, 225 lb, blue eyes, blond hair with a huge…um…personality.

LOL, so you're an Aryan poster child, eh? Actually, you just described my very first boyfriend from Morton Grove, IL perfectly, LOL! And I'm not really into blonds, so don't worry... But I digress...

CBOEtrader says

I enjoyed the life story. You write well.

Thanks, I really appreciate that.

CBOEtrader says

I have also heard from my Jewish pals that there used to be signs outside of Winnetka saying “no jews or blacks allowed” IN THE FRICKEN TOWN ITSELF, not just in their clubs–but that was back in the early 70’s.

Yes, it's true. I was just a child in the 70's but even I knew where one could and couldn't go depending on who you were and from where your ancestors came. Winnetka was traditionally for "North Shore" rich "WASPs." It's kind of weird for me to go there or Cicero now because the towns have changed so much demographically.

Helen Thomas, a well respected member of the leftist media, offers her "solution" for solving the problems in the Middle East:

http://blog.camera.org/archives/2010/06/helen_thomas_yid_get_out_of_pa.html

Helen Thomas must be getting that "old timers" disease. She's forgetting to hide her anti-Semitism. It's very cynical for someone her age to say that "Jews should go back to Germany and Poland" and call that "home" when she knows full well that 6 million Jews were killed there in her lifetime. Basically she's saying that Jews should be exterminated and have nowhere to flee. And like many anti-Semites and people who are anti-Israel she never acknowledges that Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years. Sorry, but accusing Jews of being colonizers simply isn't born out by historical fact.

The Jews' original home is Israel. It always has been, it always will be. Many of us live in the Diaspora (in countries other than Israel) for good reasons. That doesn't mean that we give up our memory of ancestors who lived there and the Jews who chose to remain in Israel for thousands of years even as many Jews left.

Things are starting to feel like the 1930's again with all of the holocaust deniers and people who feel that they are now free to be openly anti-Semitic on public media. Jews around the world should beware. It looks like anti-Semitism really didn't decrease over the years, it simply went underground. Now it's back stronger than ever.

The crowds out there protesting at Israeli Embassies in the USA deny Israel's right to exist and are calling for the dismantling of Israel and the deportation of Jews "back to the countries from which they came." That's interesting since most Israelis these days are native born, so what country is their native land?

I fear that we are seeing the re-emergence of dangerous anti-Semitism that could turn out to be yet another disaster to world Jewry.

those freaky lefty's would get dizzy if there were some study done that showed that the gay gene was a Jew gene, or vice versa. They would have to make some very tuff choices. lol (just trying to keep it light - no disrespect to anyone but leftist commies)

Bap33 says

no disrespect to anyone but leftist commies

I'm sure you deeply offended a leftist commie somewhere.

IMHO, the problem with there being a search for a "cause" to being gay is that implies it's not a natural occurance in nature. Before one erradicates a gay gene, I wish they'd find an asshole gene and cure that.

IMHO, of course.

"the problem with there being a search for a “cause” to being gay is that implies it’s not a natural occurance in nature."

A stallion wanting to mate with another stallion or a mare with a mare, is not exactly a natural occurrence in nature. What becomes of the herd?
As far as Jewish genes go, is Levi a Semitic reference?

Was forwarde3d this the other day. Not sure where it was posted.

No Borders

by Alice Rothchild on June 2, 2010 ·

I write with a mixture of outrage and heartbreak as the news unfolds
about the Israeli commandos boarding the flotilla of ships bound for
Gaza, carrying wheelchairs, home building supplies, medications,
playgrounds, and thousands of tons of desperately needed materials.
Some 800 internationals from 50 countries sought to call attention to
the Israeli blockade of Gaza through non-violent action and to provide
material support to a population suffering from collective punishment
begun in the 1980s and now under almost total closure. The activists
hoped to make it impossible for us to ignore the siege, to highlight
the humanitarian catastrophe, and to take personal action as
individuals. They wanted us to see that 10% of Gazan children suffer
from chronic malnutrition and two-thirds of Gazans face daily hunger.
As an unreconstructed war zone where much of the civil infrastructure
has been destroyed, communities are periodically engulfed in untreated
sewage which also flows directly into the Mediterranean, polluting
fishing waters. With a destroyed power station, residents suffer from
frequent electricity blackouts, inadequate fuel to run generators, and
a massively compromised health care system. And then there are the
2400 homes destroyed in the last invasion and never rebuilt. The EU
foreign policy chief recently called for an end to the Israeli
blockade. On May 28, Haaretz, a major Israeli newspaper, ran an
editorial stating, "The government has to decide right away to resume
indirect talks with Hamas, to be more flexible about releasing
prisoners and to lift the siege on Gaza." Rabbis for Human Rights
Israel supported the flotilla.

At 4:30 am on May 31st, Israeli soldiers boarded the boats in
international waters, leaving over ten dead and sixty wounded. I am
left wondering: Why is that not an outrageous act of international
piracy? Will this trigger world condemnation and actual foreign policy
and military consequences? After the invasions of Lebanon and Gaza,
the separation wall, the checkpoints, the frequent incursions, the
restrictions of movement and family reunification, the thousands of
Palestinian civil society activists languishing in administrative
detention in Israeli jails, is there a limit? For years, in the West
Bank and Gaza, Palestinians have been killed and maimed invisibly, but
now the IDF kills international peace activists apparently with
impunity as well. I am reminded that Jewish suffering does not justify
the excesses of Israeli military actions; that, as an Israeli activist
once told me, a country without borders to its land and its behavior
ultimately becomes a monster.

I admit I had a strange fantasy when I learned of this most recent
flotilla making its arduous way towards Gaza. I thought, if the
Israeli government were smart, they would let the boats come close to
shore, peaceably remove the hundreds of unarmed internationals and
send them home, and deliver the wheelchairs and concrete and medicines
as a humanitarian gesture. It would have been a political victory:
siege intact, few to bear witness, and a little less desperation in
Gaza. But in the name of “security” the monster is devouring itself.
Not only have people died, but the Israeli government has taken
another step backwards in its battle for international legitimacy and
given fuel to more militant resistance and hatred.

A week ago, my daughter in Seattle called after a bruising meeting at
her local, politically savvy food co-op where there had been an
ongoing and productive discussion about the pros and cons of selling
Israeli products and the possibility of boycotting the hummus and
couscous as an act of conscience to protest the Israeli occupation. A
group called Stand with Us subsequently launched a barrage of emails,
hysteria, and accusations of anti-Semitism, successfully squashing any
opportunity for political conversation. I have seen this kind of
behavior all over the country. As a mother, grounded in Jewish values
and a concern for human rights for Israelis and Palestinians, appalled
by the McCarthy-like behavior in my own community and the rightward
swing of Israeli politics, what do I tell my children? I cannot stand
with this Israel. I believe in the power of nonviolent resistance. The
Palestinian people are not our enemies. I am ashamed of what this
county has done in my name.

mikey says

“the problem with there being a search for a “cause” to being gay is that implies it’s not a natural occurance in nature.”
A stallion wanting to mate with another stallion or a mare with a mare, is not exactly a natural occurrence in nature. What becomes of the herd?
As far as Jewish genes go, is Levi a Semitic reference?

I was responding to Bap's comment about gay genes... no offense intended. But the stud horse comment - you'd be surprised. I've seen homosexual behavior in many animals, different types. The reason that species continue on is because there are plenty of heterosexual encounters too.

Just sayin'.

removal of the ahole gene would end the whole sodomite issue too ... lol

the little chem triggers that make masculine and feminine are gene based. Perverse behavior (or a tendancy to do it) is gene based. Lacking self control is gene based.

Guess we probably should agree to disagree on this one.

Er, uh, crazy much Bap?

And marcus, I can easily find many self-hating Jews. Stockholm Syndrome is a terrible thing. If one hears enough hate spewed against one, some people become identified with their abusers. My Great Uncle was one such anti-Semitic and racist Jew. When one is fed lies and hate all one's life, one begins to internalize it.

Some of us won't descend into that sea of insanity with the anti-Semites and anti-Israeli people. That woman was quite rational all the way up to the last paragraph. She was making somewhat logical sense up until then. Then, in that last paragraph, she revealed herself. She's one confused lady. She has completely identified with the anti-Semites and anti-Israeli people in that paragraph so that she can no longer see in a balanced way that both sides have blood on their hands, lots and lots of blood. Neither side is 100% right or 100% wrong. Intelligent and rational minds know that this conflict isn't that simple to dissect in black and white. There's too much gray unless you've been blinded by one side or the other. Both sides have to compromise in order to get peace. Neither side will budge one inch. That's the tragedy and the fault lies 50%-50%.

Bab is right.

Some of you forget how Isreal intercepted a few month ago weapons headed for the terrorists.

Israeli naval force intercepts Iranian weapon ship

4 Nov 2009
A special Israel Navy force intercepted and boarded a ship 100 miles off the coast of Israel. The ship, carrying the flag of Antigua, was carrying weapons under civilian disguise.

marcus says

Was forwarde3d this the other day. Not sure where it was posted.
No Borders
by Alice Rothchild on June 2, 2010 ·

Alice can can go stuff it up her ass as far many care.