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STRIVE Act

By Peter P follow Peter P   2007 Apr 2, 4:05am 13,882 views   165 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


The long awaited immigration reform is now on the table. Perhaps we should see if that will have any impact on the housing market.

In short, the proposed bill promises to fix-up enforcement issues, address the need for guess workers, and allows more immigrants to achieve the American Dream.

What does this mean to us? Will the influx of rich immigrants reignites the housing bubble?

As usual, race-baiting is not welcomed.

Peter P

P.S. Here is a summary of the bill.

#housing

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126   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 4:42am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Another issue on any immigration bill….lets revoke birthright citizenship.

That is going to be tough. Let's just reform the welfare system instead.

One thing though, the citizen baby will not be able to sponsor its parents until it becomes an adult.

127   DinOR   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 4:43am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Annie,

I don't know what bugs me worse. The "free" child delivery or the bleeding hearts saying "how can you send these people back to ____, ____, or ____ when their child is a CITIZEN!?! You're breaking up a family!

128   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 4:45am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The free child delivery bugs me worse. The US should charge the parents' country of origin for the fees.

129   cb   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 4:46am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I used to see help wanted posting in Chinese restaurants written in Chinese only, that's borderline legal because if the job requires certain language skills, anyone that meets that can apply (i.e., an American that knows Chinese). I'm sure that's not what the intentions were though.

But nowadays, a lot of busboy and dishwasher notices in Chinese restaurants are in Spanish only. My old nanny's husband was in his 50's, after he got laid off from his last restaurant jog, no Chinese restaurant would hire him even though he was a legal immigrant.

130   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 4:48am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I used to see help wanted posting in Chinese restaurants written in Chinese only, that’s borderline legal because if the job requires certain language skills, anyone that meets that can apply (i.e., an American that knows Chinese). I’m sure that’s not what the intentions were though.

CB, I do not think the intention alone constitutes a crime. :)

I am not a lawyer. Not legal advice.

131   cb   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 4:52am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CB, I do not think the intention alone constitutes a crime.

I agree, but why do Chinese restaurants have Spanish as a requirements for bus-persons and dish-washers. :)

132   DinOR   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:07am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

GC,

I haven't dined out that much in Seattle but I've never been hit on by the waitresses. Don't flatter yourself (they're just working you for a tip). I've had them say "Are you guys coming from the game?" but mostly just to break the ice. Besides if you tip nice (they'll remember you) just like if you're an @$$hole (only the service is a lot better) :)

133   Michael Holliday   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ha, ha! Scope this out:

A pensioner aged 102 has been granted a 25-year mortgage despite the fact he would have to live until 127 to pay the loan back.

The property investor from East Sussex has taken out an interest-only £200,000 mortgage and hopes to meet the £958 monthly repayments with income from rent as he joins a growing army of retired people hoping to cash in on buy-to-let schemes.

Most lenders set a limit at 75 years for mortgage applicants but a handful, including Woolwich, and Bristol & West, have no such restrictions. This has led to a rush of applications from older investors.

Jonathan Moore, of Mortgages for Business, an independent adviser based in Sevenoaks, Kent, told how he brokered the mortgage for the unnamed 102-year-old, one of hundreds he has arranged for pensioners. “This is a new phenomenon.Obviously there is an element of risk if property prices and rental income suddenly fall but there is no sign of that at the moment,” he said.

134   Vicente   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:23am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

This "Minutemen" is a bunch of Limbaugh-blowhard chatter.

There are plenty of factories that are filled with illegal workers, it's not just dudes hanging out in your Home Depot parking lot. Go take a tour of your local chicken-processing plant and see if anyone speaks English. It's been that way for years, and I don't see any Republican-funded INS trucks rolling up and deporting them. If the "Minutemen" were so serious about their task they would be volunteering to work for INS for *FREE* in my opinion. They would be sponsoring and marching for bills to punish employers for say $10K per illegal caught working for them.

Me, I don't care either way, I am just amused by the hypocrisy of both parties which say things and then make absolutely sure no results are achieved. Because neither party really wants to harm the bottom lines of their corporate masters no mater what they say on TV.

Is this going to have a major impact on housing or the economy, I don't see how. Except for news-worthy cases, Jose the Fruit-Picker isn't typically buying a McMansion on a sub-prime loan. They work for 6 months, then go home to Mexico and take their money with them. Then they come back next season.

135   skibum   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:26am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You can make fun of me but you can’t ignore the facts.

Cramer, Cramer, Cramer,

Use your mind and stop taking the media's spin at face value.

I assume the "facts" you refer to are that todays pending sales appear to have increased compared to last month. Let me tell you a few additional facts:

We are in the start of the Spring Selling Season (TM). Sales traditionally increase this time of year. The touted increase is to be expected, but I'd argue that the magnitude of increase is less than hoped for.

The previous month (Jan) pending sales number was (as is almost always the case) revised downward, making this month's pending sales larger compared to last month. This is because the pending sales do not account for cancellations, and when all is said and done the number almost always gets revised downward (in the relatively brief history of this statistic). I find it interesting how this scheme is a built-in way for the new pending sales number to always look as good as possible...

If you don't believe me, read the press release from the NAR themselves at www.realtor.org Interestingly, the NAR's spin is more negative:

A forward-looking index based on pending home sales indicates that bad weather, and possibly the loss of some subprime lending, will dampen sales closed in March and April, according to the National Association of Realtors®.

The Pending Home Sales Index,* based on contracts signed in February, stood at 109.3 – down 8.5 percent from February 2006 when it reached 119.4, but is 0.7 percent higher than a downwardly revised reading of 108.5 in January. Earlier, mild weather caused the index to spike at 113.3 in December.

I find it interesting that the MSM failed to mention the large YoY decline as well.

To the rest of you, sorry to take up bandwidth with troll-bait responses.

136   skibum   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Incidentally, if you're curious about the pending home sales index for our neck of the woods, it's not good:

"In the West, the index fell 6.0 percent from January to 104.1 and was 8.2 percent lower than February 2006."

137   PAR   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

My Spring-fling theory: What do you think the odds are that some sellers are waiting on the Fed to drop rates before listing their properties? The market seems very certain that rate cuts are coming (despite rising inflation)...

If I were in the mood to sell but not forced to do so (e.g. pending foreclosure, etc.) would I wait for the media "doom and gloom" to pass? Would I wait until the Fed drops rates from the "unreasonably high" current rates?

138   e   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

New Thread: September 12, 2037 http://patrick.net/wp/?p=431

139   skibum   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:38am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PAR,

You're assuming most sellers are savvy enough to (a) be aware that there is an entity called the Federal Reserve and (b) it does stuff that has an effect on interest rates, and that (c) despite the fact that the Fed funds rate generally affects short-term rates, most potential buyers will be using ARMs and therefore care more about short term rates anyway. Otherwise, why would the typical seller care about this (of course, there are more savvy sellers out there, though).

How many FOB immigrants know these facts? Incidentally, does the US citizenship test ask about the Fed?

140   e   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:44am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

>>How many FOB immigrants know these facts? Incidentally, does the US citizenship test ask about the Fed?

Like most things, if you asked most citizens that, they'd fail too.

141   DinOR   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:46am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PAR,

I'll take it a step further, they're BANKING on it! It's as pathetic as the stoners that refuse to leave a rock concert after everyone is long gone thinking "the band" will come out and do one more encore?

The Quest for the Last Greater Fool!

These dingbats couldn't give a rip about the broader economy! They're over leveraged (on one or more properties) and they just want out. Ask these fools what they think is fair and the answer is typically "Take rates down to whatever level is required to get the market "back to normal" as their bic lighter emits it's last flicker. :(

142   skibum   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DinOR,

Love the image. I'm picturing a 40-ish dude with a mullet at a Styx reunion concert holding out for another version of "Come Sail Away."

143   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 3, 6:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"by severely punishing anyone hiring illegal immigrants. Punishing illegal immigrants would be ineffective, expensive, and lead to unnecessary abuse. Stem the demand and the supply will eventually go home."

I think it should be a crime to hire as well, but I disagree with the notion that we need to enforce the law for the government. It is the federal government's job to secure the border. I should not have to do a background check on a gardener who is an independent contractor. It is only a way to avoid political fallout that our spineless Congress tries to push the burden of enforcement to businesses because they don't want to anger the Mexican voting blocks. If someone is walking around in this country they have a right to be presumed to be legal, if they do something that causes the discovery of their illegal status they should go to jail.

144   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 6:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If someone is walking around in this country they have a right to be presumed to be legal, if they do something that causes the discovery of their illegal status they should go to jail.

That was the idea. But that encouraged illegal entries and overstays. Everyone should be presumed illegal until he can prove his status.

145   DinOR   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 6:10am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@ skibum,

That's precisely the guy I'm talkin' about!

I agree, it's doubtful most of these clowns, couples, doofusses have a clue as to what an inverted yield curve is? All they know is that their Home ATM (TM) isn't working like she used to so now they want to get rid of it.

This Spring has really been where EVERYONE has been introduced to the "bargaining phase" and we're seeing how the last of them are dealing with it. What they're finding is that this isn't like trading in a car with a little negative equity where the deficiency is rolled over the next 60 payments!

146   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 7:42am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Malcolm,

I don't care to pay $1,000/yr more in taxes in fence/prison building to achieve the same effect of having you check your gardener for valid immigration papers. Scared of fines - garden yourself or hire a contractor who check immigration status of his/her employees.

147   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 3, 8:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

No, I am not the green card police. It is the federal government's job to secure the border. If you don't want to pay for it then vote for politicians who will enforce the laws instead of outsourcing the government's responsibility to someone else.

148   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 3, 8:23am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Astrid have you ever hired someone like a plumber or a mover, or a gardener?

BTW the only gardener I have hired was a white guy who used to be my neighbor. I suppose since he wasn't brown it was ok with you that I didn't verify his green card. I mean really, he could have been lying about growing up in Michigan, and living in the same house since the 60's.

149   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 3, 8:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"That was the idea. But that encouraged illegal entries and overstays. Everyone should be presumed illegal until he can prove his status. "

You consider yourself a libertarian but you want to live in a police state? Did you ever hear of the 4th amendment?
I don't like it when people throw around the term Naziism but Peter, I worry that that kind of philosophy leads to us (the good white guys) living as preferred citizens because no one ever questions our heritage, and then the second class (the brown hispanics) constantly having to show us their papers. I don't particulary relish that as an ideal society. I'm not willing to subject legal residents and citizens to that type of lifestyle.

150   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 3, 8:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The term 'proving their innocence' doesn't bother you?

151   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 8:52am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The term ‘proving their innocence’ doesn’t bother you?

Many jobs require an I-9, which is essentially a type of verification anyway. Also, I believe the current law requires all non-citizens to carry proof of legal status at all times.

Again, I am not a lawyer.

152   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 8:53am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You consider yourself a libertarian but you want to live in a police state?

I am also a worst-case scenario type of person.

153   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 9:02am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

My libertarian side thinks that there should be no border. My practical side tells me that for everything to keep working, there needs to be enforcement at least for now.

If we cannot do interior enforcement, all future illegals will enter as legal tourists. Border agents cannot definitively tell whether the incoming "non-immigrants" with overstay and become part of the underground population.

I do not like police states either. What should we do?

BTW, I am not white.

154   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 3, 9:34am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Many jobs require an I-9, which is essentially a type of verification anyway.

This is one of those things that sounds good but is problematic. You and I both know (me from first hand experience) that this just keeps honest people honest. The illegals merely use forged documents, and the law does not penalize employers (even if they should have known). It is just one of those formality, let's throw paperwork at the problem.

I proposed an alternative for interior enforcement, most posts in response complain about the high costs. So basically it is a problem we don't really want to tackle, we just talk tough but when it comes time to actually open the pocketbook all of a sudden there are bigger law enforcement issues to tackle, like a jaywalking sting in downtown San Diego. The illegals who I would jail would eventually end up in jail for other crimes, not only is my policy a deterent but it is also preventative.

BTW, I AM white, and can attest first hand that I enjoy the special treatment like never being looked at funny in a store, having police look away from me when I look at them. I have worked with Mexicans and blacks who were just as honest as me who live with constant harrasment when they venture in to the white areas. Mexicans avoid certain malls in San Diego because of the stares they get. Enough white people in WWII didn't have a problem establishing classes which led to some pretty horrific stuff.

155   Michael Holliday   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 11:14am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Malcolm Says:

BTW, I AM white...I have worked with Mexicans and blacks who were just as honest as me who live with constant harrasment when they venture in to the white areas. Mexicans avoid certain malls in San Diego because of the stares they get. Enough white people in WWII didn’t have a problem establishing classes which led to some pretty horrific stuff.
_____

That's unfortunate.

Enough "white people" from America in WWII saved millions of people from death in Nazi and Japanese concentration camps, and basically liberated half the world from sure death and tyranny. But that probably doesn't mean sh-t to you.

Try being a white person walking into certain parts of Los Angeles any time of the day. If you're not Black or or Mexican, you'll be lucky to get out of the neigborhood with half your ass intact.

You sound like a delusional, liberal whiner. Be a little more balanced and not so self-hating and neurotically filled with false liberal feeling of guilt for "social injustices" you never, and I never, committed.

156   astrid   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 11:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Malcolm doesn't sound like a liberal whiner, more like one of those conservatives who only cares about his pet issues and screw everyone else on the rest. He can't be bothered to verify the legal status of people he hires but would like to keep illegal immigration in check, so we're back to punishing taxes for everybody and crappy enforcement via the second or third best solution -- incidentally a solution that encourages police/employer abuse against fairly desperate people.

But I guess social responsibility only extend to not bugging Malcolm from hiring gardeners and plumbers without checking legal status. (In any case, I wouldn't hire a plumber or electrician unless they're bonded and properly trained - I would check for qualifications even if there was no legal obligation to do so.)

157   Peter P   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 1:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Don't be too hard on Malcolm. Liberty IS important and we must remain vigilant.

However, it is also important to seek a feasible solution. The combination of guest worker program and strong enforcement seems like one.

Mass deportation is not a wrong option, but it is politically unacceptable, so it is useless.

158   DaBoss   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 2:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P asked ...Also, I believe the current law requires all non-citizens to carry proof of legal status at all times."

This is true ... it is the law that you must present legal ID citizen an non citizen allike when asked by a peace officer or officer of the law. If you have no ID you can be arrested. Im sure glad the law lilke this is on the books. Its been around for a very long time.

159   DaBoss   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 2:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P asked ...Also, I believe the current law requires all non-citizens to carry proof of legal status at all times."

This is true ... it is the law that you must present legal ID citizen an non citizen allike when asked by a peace officer or officer of the law. If you have no ID you can be arrested. Im sure glad the law lilke this is on the books. Its been around for a very long time.

160   Jimbo   ignore (0)   2007 Apr 3, 5:59pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

No, I don't think so Space Ace. As hard as he has tried, Bush has not yet completely repealed the 4th Amendment, though it is practically a dead letter at this point.

There is no way that a peace officer can demand ID from a citizen who is not breaking any laws, or under suspicion of breaking any laws. Of course, as a practical manner, a cop can always lie and claim that you looked like a suspect. In that case, you probably have to "prove" your innocence and produce ID or spend the night in jail.

161   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 4, 1:52pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

This is true … it is the law that you must present legal ID citizen an non citizen allike when asked by a peace officer or officer of the law. If you have no ID you can be arrested. Im sure glad the law lilke this is on the books. Its been around for a very long time.

This is actually not true. It is the law that you must answer the question 'who are you' (recent supreme court case) but not that you have to carry ID around. That is not the law. When driving you must carry a driver's license and present it to a peace officer if asked.

162   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 4, 2:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"Enough “white people” from America in WWII saved millions of people from death in Nazi and Japanese concentration camps, and basically liberated half the world from sure death and tyranny. But that probably doesn’t mean sh-t to you."

Yeah, and Nazi POWs brought back during the war had more freedoms to go into businesses and theaters than American blacks did.
Michael, why don't you try relating to how others have it and maybe you won't look like such a dork.

163   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 4, 2:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

He can’t be bothered to verify the legal status of people he hires but would like to keep illegal immigration in check, so we’re back to punishing taxes for everybody and crappy enforcement via the second or third best solution — incidentally a solution that encourages police/employer abuse against fairly desperate people.

You're just trying to portray me to your convenience without understanding anything I say. It is your notion of living in a police state that creates the crappy environment. I'd rather have them stay than to see checkpoints, and even more class separation. You don't mind the cheap produce, you just want to pretend you are passionate about a popular issue. Big deal.

164   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 4, 2:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"Be a little more balanced and not so self-hating and neurotically filled with false liberal feeling of guilt for “social injustices” you never, and I never, committed."

People like you continually comit social injustices.

165   Malcolm   ignore (1)   2007 Apr 4, 2:20pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

commit sp

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