patrick.net

Parul Vora, 28, who holds a master’s degree from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, thought she was immune to unemployment — until Yahoo laid her off recently as a researcher in San Francisco earning in the low six figures.

“To me, the layoff was an introduction to the dark side of corporate life,” Ms. Vora said. “It was a reminder that at the end of the day, you are doing breakthrough research for a company that is making decisions about your life, and you have no control over those decisions.”

Speaker Nancy Pelosi is calling on President Bush to work with Congress on another economic stimulus package in light of the disastrous Labor Department report that 80,000 Americans lost jobs last month.

"Today"s disturbing unemployment numbers, combined with (Fed) Chairman (Ben) Bernanke’s recession warning, and threats to our standard living because of the rising costs of gas, groceries and health care compels the president to work with Congress on a second stimulus package to get our economy back on track, create jobs, and speed assistance to families struggling to make ends meet," Pelosi said in a written statement.

Pelosi added, "When congressional leaders meet with the president next week, I will urge him to refocus his attention on America's economy and to again work in a bipartisan manner on a new stimulus package. We need to work together to restore consumer and market confidence, to assist millions of Americans threatened with the loss of their homes, and to help families meet the rising costs of necessities."

StuckinBA--

People are going to have to work until they die, as they are not preparing otherwise. They younger people will learn from that ... then more prosperity, then the cycle will repeat itself.

Parul Vora, 28... earning in the low six figures.

“To me, the layoff was an introduction to the dark side of corporate life,” Ms. Vora said. “It was a reminder that at the end of the day, you are doing breakthrough research for a company that is making decisions about your life, and you have no control over those decisions.”

You know what I'm tired of? People who think they have no control over their own lives. Working at Yahoo is a choice. They provide you with a six-figure salary and possibly some interesting research topics, and in exchange you provide your hard work and intellect. There is no guarantee expressed or implied. You chose this exchange. Period. The end.

People hate it when their carefully laid plans are disrupted, but they wouldn't hesitate to ditch Yahoo if they found something better (where "better" is defined as worthwhile enough to create a departure, otherwise it's not really "better" or the person is a fool). It's awfully hard to feel sorry for someone who makes more in a year than Joe SixPack's entire net worth.

Now that snippet didn't mention a sinking mortgage, so why do I bring this up? I'm honestly tired of hearing about all the couples in Florida, Arizona, California and other areas that are "victims" of the housing bubble. So if it all goes well, you're a brilliant winner, and if it doesn't go well, then you're a "victim" and we should help you out? Apparently nobody cares to comprehend that they are taking a risk when they sign up for a mortgage that they can only afford under a very specific set of circumstances--a high paying job in a particular area, two incomes, no major expenses, a big forthcoming inheritance, a pick-a-payment loan. There is an awesome Demotivator (tm) named Overconfidence that says: "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure that you could survive the odds beating you."

Yeah. Exactly.

Taking such a risk is a choice. I believe that people should be thoroughly informed about their choices. If they need help understanding the potential consequences, then perhaps we should provide our fellow citizens with an impartial, high-quality information source. We should mitigate future housing bubbles by making sure that every single high school graduate in this country understands the different types of mortgages and is literate in reading contracts (or in retaining a lawyer). All graduates must understand the legal roles of each party in typical real estate, medical, employment, marriage, insurance and contract transactions. Or perhaps these aspects should all be handled like driver's licenses--all these things are priveleges, and there is a minimum expectation by your fellow citizens that you can conclusively demonstrate your understanding of the basic principles before we allow you to proceed. All the MSM talk is about regulating the banks... well, layering strict safety requirements onto car companies can't prevent people from being shitty drivers. Our society needs to work both ends of this problem with a thorough, long-term mindset. If we don't properly educate our citizens, then we'll just repeat this debacle in another form.

As for Parul Vora--the "dark side" of Privelege is Consequence. Welcome to Real Life. :twisted:

>> Working at Yahoo is a choice.

I agree. I joined Yahoo Platform Engineering in 2006 for the hot shot Panama project. I could not take lax culture, high talk of competing with Google and politics more than five months. I quit to be a manager in a small company. Now I am a Senior Manager in a public company in San Jose.

When I joined, Yahoo share price was 42. When I left, it was 24.

That's a pretty cool story PermaRenter.

People who think they have no control over their own lives. Working at Yahoo is a choice. They provide you with a six-figure salary and possibly some interesting research topics, and in exchange you provide your hard work and intellect. There is no guarantee expressed or implied.

I've had to be flexible all my life. My first go at grad school was in a physics PhD program which I found not to my liking. I got out with an MA and had to scrounge around for a job. I started at Bell Aero as a circuit designer and after performing well I leveraged that into a much better paying gig at LMSC.

Normal job progression in defense is from detailed designer to systems engineer and finally (around age 40) into project management. Unfortunately for me, right about the time I would have been promoted into management the USSR broke up and the defense industry went into a decade-long tailspin.

So I cashed in my 401(k) funds and put myself through law school, training myself for a good paying gig as a patent attorney. I was able to leverage a broad-but-shallow knowlege of many engineering disciplines into a new career.

People who think a "hot" college degree entitles them to a lifetime hot job are deluding themselves. Sometimes you have to re-invent yourself several times over a career.

Dennis,
Yup. I am at the systems egineer phase as well. I am not sure the project mgmt job will come, but for all of its flaws, aerospace is pretty interesting.

What do you think of the cold up there in Idaho? The schools?

I can't speak personally to the schools here since I'm one of those never-married guys. Friends that visited went to some website that numerically ranks US schools and claimed that Eagle HS ranks similar to Palo Alto HS. I'm not sure what such numerical rankings really mean.

January and February can get cold here in the valley, but nothing like the central part of the state. Stanley often is cited as being the coldest spot in the contiguous US on national weather reports. For example, last week it got down to 34 deg. here in Boise at night but to -19 degrees in Stanley. Idaho is a large state and straddles the latitudes from the border with Nevada all the way to Canada so there's a huge difference in climate among various parts of the state.

“To me, the layoff was an introduction to the dark side of corporate life,” Ms. Vora said. “It was a reminder that at the end of the day, you are doing breakthrough research for a company that is making decisions about your life, and you have no control over those decisions.”

At any large employer in the tech industry (and yahoo is one of them) , I have never seen a technical R&D person with a strong track-record laid off. The company invariably offers great-to-very-good engineers at least one or two other options transfer internally before a division gets cut.

The only cases in which I know such folks were laid off are at:
1. startups that go bust (happened to me)
2. companies that went bankrupt
3. when the engineer didn't like any of the internal options and opted to take the severance

Based on her own linkedIn profile, Ms. Vora seems to have been a smart but fairly low-level intern in Yahoo' interaction research lab. There is nothing wrong with that, and she has some marquee schools on her resume, and maybe Yahoo made a mistake in laying her off - but it does not quite square with the inflated description of her position as some kind of VIP within the org.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8821074

One in five homes put on the market in Santa Clara County recently is an attempted "short sale"

I have never seen a technical R&D person with a strong track-record laid off.

I agree, if you are good, there will always be work. During the dot com busts, my previous company constantly reminded us that we are lucky to still have a job, the smart ones always have options, the scare tactics just seemed silly.

With regard to the exploding inventory, it seems like it's happening, I use Movoto map view search where it draws a dot on a map for each house for sale. Lately the map is a lot denser, Cupertino has to have 2 or 3 times more houses that came on market than 6 months ago.

I have never seen a technical R&D person with a strong track-record laid off.

Perhaps you have not seen enough. With sufficient political skills, that may be true.

DennisN Says:

> Damned. Hillbilly raked in $109 Million since 2000.
> Why would you put up with politics when you could
> just have such a wonderful life with that much scratch?

Some people just seem to like to add stress to their life…

Examples are:

Former First Lady who could easily make $10mm + a year as a corporate atty. Working 20 hours a week but decides to work 100 hours a week as a feeding her ego as politician traveling around the country telling people that a black guy would make a bad president (and black voters should vote for her) …

The super smart son of a Billionaire real estate guy making next to nothing working long hours as the AG of a East Coast state and paying tens of thousands for sex when he could be working just a few house a week as a partner of a Wall Street law firm making millions and getting free sex from super hot NYC models who just want dinner at a nice restaurant…

RE: this yahoo who got "laid off" at Yahoo, whether or not he/she is any good is to me besides the point. Yes, even in the worst economic times, people with valuable skills will still find work.

During a downturn, it's the ballast that gets jettisoned. And that's already starting to happen, albeit slowly. The extreme example was during the dot-con heyday, where idiots with no skills, no background called themselves "web developers."

Same thing can be said on a larger scale. Companies that add value and have the skill to navigate the downturn will survive and thrive. The ballast should and will be chucked (ie, most of the me-too "Web 2.0" crap).

Peter P Says:

> No fault divorces should be outlawed. If there was no
> fault there would be no justification for a divorce.

There does not have to be a “fault” for there to be a divorce someone may just want a change. If I sign a 10 year contract to sell real estate for a firm they can live up to their end of the contract but I may just want to do something different in 5 years.

If I decided to break an employment contract early when there was no breach by the employer I would have to probably pay them to allow me to break the contract (I couldn’t leave and take half of the company assets with me).

I don’t understand why a gold digger can marry a guy for a few years and after to agreeing to stay with him “until death do us part” break the contract (to move in with her personal trainer) and take half the guys assets…

"traveling around the country telling people that a black guy would make a bad president (and black voters should vote for her) …"

Yes, that would be a tough gig. How the hell do you get black people to vote for a white women instead of the potential first black president. It was next to impossible to convince black people that OJ was guilty. Hillary has a very tough job.

Oh well, Obama is NOT your typical black American. He is just a second generation immigrant. He doesn't share the same "legacy" (or baggage if you will) as most black Americans whose ancestors came here as slaves. Obama's dad is an upper class African who after abandoning Obama's mom, bagged another white woman from Harvard. Obama's white mom has a more humble socio-economic background than Obama's black dad.

I chuckle when I read about how American press portray Obama's step-dad as radical Muslim man from a developing country. They probably have never traveled to Indonesia and know nothing about the social fabric over there. While I don't know Soetoro personally, from my experience in that part of the world, I'd venture to guess that he has to be a very mild Muslim (it will be very difficult to find a rich, radical Muslim in Indonesia), and again, from a very moneyed family with far more wealth than Obama's American middle class white mom. Even today, only the top 0.1% Indonesians have a chance to come to America for studies, not to mention 30 years ago. As things always go in developing countries, although they are poor in general, their rich are insanely rich. So Obama was never this kid wandering about in developing world, but lived a far more privileged life over there than here. Everyone I know from Indonesia, with NO exceptions, who is able to come to the US for study, has a whole fleet of servants, gardeners, cook or even personal guards back at home.

To paraphrase George Carlin, Obama is like Colin Powell, he happens to be black, he is openly white.

I once visited a Filipino classmate at his hometown, and this guy was very low key at school, so you would have guessed nothing about his background. When I stepped outside the airport, he got a few armored cars waiting outside with uniformed soldiers manning these vehicles. We went to his house, and it was almost an exact replication of Great Gatsby's mansion.

Unfortunately a few years back there was a coup d'etat which involved his family, and as a result, his family was purged in the political struggle. Nevertheless, most of his close relatives end up in Hawaii resuming a "reduced" lifestyle.

The next time you run into some of those college students from bottom-of-the-barrel developing countries, don't assume that they are dirt poor. The poorer their country is, the richer the person's family is, that is my generalization.

Clarify: If someone comes here from the Philippines or Indonesia on work visa, or illegally, he is likely to be poor. If he comes here on STUDENT visa, watch out, he could very well be a little prince back home.

I went on a business trip to the Philippines once with my manager who was Filipino. We were met at the Manilla airport by the Manilla police chief - who turned out to be his uncle.

The only thing worse than being trapped in an office listening to a boomer blather on about themselve, is being trapped on a blog reading a boomer blather on about themselve.

So after you started the civil rights movement, freed the entire world from the yoke of sexual tyrany, and opened up recreational pharma to new generations. You what, got lucky? Simply stunning. Blather on boomer, I am hanging on every word. Please please tell us again how great you are doing, exactly how much you make a year and all your great stories. You really were with the stones at Altamont weren't you.

Take your calias today? If not you might want to add some provigil. Ahhhhh good boomer, now take your speed and shut up.

The extreme example was during the dot-con heyday, where idiots with no skills, no background called themselves “web developers.”

Stop the hate. Please don't be an idiotcist.

Hey DennisN, how long did it take you to pay back your $19,237* in undergraduate student loan debt? Or were you able to take advantage of the no tuition UC system while simultaneously avoiding the draft. If so, kudos to you Sir, this type of skill is amazing. One might be so shallow as to call it luck, but certainly it was anything such.

*Few students can afford to pay for college without some form of education financing. Two-thirds (65.7%) of 4-year undergraduate students graduate with some debt, and the average student loan debt among graduating seniors is $19,237 (excluding PLUS Loans but including Stafford, Perkins, state, college and private loans), according to the 2003-2004 National Postsecondary Student Aid Study (NPSAS).

Anyway, black or white, Obama probably means higher tax.

I don’t understand why a gold digger can marry a guy for a few years and after to agreeing to stay with him “until death do us part” break the contract (to move in with her personal trainer) and take half the guys assets…

Because the gold digger is a victim and the rich man is always the bad man?

There should be physical penalties for marital treason.

Even as a libertarian, I recognize the need for the government to enforce private contracts. When a gold digger seek to unilaterally breach the contract, the government should move to block.

Any chance Tom McClintock will become our next governor? :(

http://republican.sen.ca.gov/web/mcclintock/article_detail.asp?PID=344

Are they really going to teach "global warming" in public schools? How is that more real than God?

We are supposed to be free from religions.

Here's an interesting new story up at the Chron's site:

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/05/RENBVULBH.DTL

I wonder if he was one of the trolls here?

"The people who left are the ones who had other options or just saw the writing on the wall," he said. "The stereotype is that it's the casual agents and the opportunistic ones who are the first to fall off. I don't know if that's the case. The people who I know who are leaving got into real estate for very legitimate reasons and were very dedicated. But if you start doing the numbers, somebody had to go."

DennisN Says:

> Here’s an interesting new story up at the Chron’s site:

We now know why Marina Prime is no longer posting:

"When Jaime Gutierrez got his real estate license in 2005, he thought he had found his new career. Then the housing market crashed, and now Gutierrez works as a cab driver."

surfer-x Says:

> *Few students can afford to pay for college without
> some form of education financing.

As someone who had no problem working to pay for college I don’t understand why most people in America do not expect kids to work over the summer or a little bit of work between fraternity parties to pay their own way through college.

The tuition for a full year with a full load of transfer classes at a Junior College is about $500. A full year at a California State School is about $4K and a UC School is about $7K. So without a penny of student aid or scholarships you can get a Bachelors degree from a CSU campus (after a JC transfer) for about $9K ($43 week over four years)

FAB, you obviously have no idea how difficult it is playing Ultimate Frisbee and drinking beer. There's no time for work!

Most students put more planning into Spring Break than their summer job. Also, that statistic ignores the fact that most students prefer their student loan debt to almost every other kind of credit. It doesn't kick in until you're done (and presumably making better money), and it's at a very low interest rate. Why put clothes, food and entertainment on your expensive credit cards and then pay cash for your education? Uncle Sam is offering you a low low rate on deferred credit! I wonder why the lenders were never able to replicate their HELOC strategy with student loans. "Roll all your debt into one low monthly payment, deferred until graduation!" If they could have just loosened those pesky regulations a bit more.

Getting a student loan was the very best decision I made. I used it to make a downpayment on my first house.

I'm way late in chiming in here....

First, 50% ownership? That is mind boggling. Who knew Hummers and pergraniteel cost that much?

Second, Surfer-X, my parents-- the boomers--, have lost their home and ended up in Thailand after fleeing almost $1 million in debt and the IRS. Great examples for us all, no?

Brand says:

I believe that people should be thoroughly informed about their choices. If they need help understanding the potential consequences, then perhaps we should provide our fellow citizens with an impartial, high-quality information source. We should mitigate future housing bubbles by making sure that every single high school graduate in this country understands the different types of mortgages and is literate in reading contracts (or in retaining a lawyer).

That was part of a great post, but I'd like to add.

Knowledge is not really the issue. As long as some people have access to credit to fulfill an immediate wish, they are unconcerned about the long term. Think of all the easy credit stores. I'm sure the customer knows that paying $100/mo for 18 months to buy a flat screen is a bad deal when the same item is available for $1,000 at discount stores, but he gets to take it home today. This "have the bling now" concept also applies to BMW, Lexus, and Escalade leases, and explains the unpaid credit card balances. Unfortunately, houses were not immune to the financially short sighted, and that I do not believe education will have any effect on the "have it now" crowd. Only sensibly tight credit will prevent bubbles.

Ms. Vora seems to have been a smart but fairly low-level intern in Yahoo’ interaction research lab.

Yahoo gives low six figure salaries to interns? That would explain some attitudes.

As home prices soared in the middle of the decade, consumers tapped the rising value of their property as a source of cash by refinancing first mortgages or taking out home equity loans. But in 2007, as home prices fell and foreclosures skyrocketed, lenders turned wary of the housing market. Home equity lending volume fell sharply in 2007, tumbling to $60.5 billion. By the last three months of the year, such lending slowed to an annual rate of $26 billion.

2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
$92.2 $180.5 $138.2 $147.5 $60.5

from today's SFChronicle. Someone here described our economy in the last 5+ years as based on not two but three paychecks (mom, dad, house). Now even the Chronicle and Wall Street economists agree!

So it seems we'll be fine this year because the government in all its wisdom has replaced MEW with tax rebates. What happens in 2009? hahahaha....

the link if anyone cares

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/05/MNI1VS96B.DTL

>> When Jaime Gutierrez got his real estate license in 2005, he thought he had found his new career. Then the housing market crashed, and now Gutierrez works as a cab driver.”

He also does substitute teaching:

After two years Jamie Gutierrez has quit the real estate game. During that time he hung on to his cab-driving job; now he's making ends meet by substitute teaching.

Chronicle photo by Katy Raddatz
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2008/04/06/RENBVULBH.DTL&o=0&type=printable

Second, Surfer-X, my parents– the boomers–, have lost their home and ended up in Thailand after fleeing almost $1 million in debt and the IRS.

SQT, I thought your parents were Silents.