patrick.net

dunnross says

but the weather in San Francisco is in no way better than the weather in Paris.

That's hilarious.

My sister slipped on icy pavement there one winter and lotsa chiropractor bills later felt OK again.

And there was the summer trip that the Parisian mosquitoes feasted on me.

sybrib says

dunnross says
but the weather in San Francisco is in no way better than the weather in Paris.
That’s hilarious.

I don't get the idea that the weather in SF is a big selling point. The average high just barely gets above 70 for about 1 month (Sept.). I guess there are probably some people that enjoy colder summers, but I wouldn't call it a plus...

NY v SF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTHlaTa4-4

bayhousehunter says

I have seen several properties in the “Fortress” areas of the south bay getting multiple bids (11-14 bids) and sell well above asking price within days of listing.

Please identify these houses on one of Juliana's lists if you are going to make this claim:

http://www.julianalee.com/reinfo/monthly.shtml

Many of the selling prices are missing because it's not the end of the month yet. When I did an analysis in April of Cupertino, after someone claimed that large numbers of houses in Cupertino were selling for more than 10% above asking and the majority were selling within a week for cash, I only found 5 out of 41 went for 10% or $100K above asking and only 5 out of 41 (not the same 5) could have sold within a week for cash because they had a very short escrow.

tatupu70 says

I don’t get the idea that the weather in SF is a big selling point. The average high just barely gets above 70 for about 1 month (Sept.). I guess there are probably some people that enjoy colder summers, but I wouldn’t call it a plus…

The weather is quite compatible with mammalian life. The summer weather in other places can kill you. I think that's a giant plus.

Austinhousingbubble says

NY v SF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTHlaTa4-4

My cousin recently visited San Francisco, and he said that he has never been to a city where he met people more conceited and arrogant than the ones he met in SF. The interesting fact about my cousin, is that he lives in NY.

mdovell says

If it has culture and appeal why has the African American population dropped in half since the 1970s? Asian and white isn’t exactly diversity. Maybe diverse in that it has the largest amount of homeless people per capita than any other city in the country.

Wealthy liberals are really dumb and out of touch with any sort of reality.

For a very long time I've head that Santa Monica is an extremely diverse place. My dealings in Santa Monica in the past have been minimal...visits to 3rd Street, and also to a night club off of Olympic. Always at night. Yesterday, my GF and I went to eat at a restaurant in the heart of Santa Monica.

I've never seen so many caucasian people in one place at one time. Like 95% white, 3% asian, and 2 black people. I was stunned. My parents live in HB, and I've never once seen such a lack of ethnic mix.

Yet, SM is touted as a place of great diversity, and I'm pretty sure the rich evil liberals there love to take pride in their incorrect belief.

I wonder if there is any correlation between rich liberals in SM and rich liberals in SF.

FunTime says

tatupu70 says

I don’t get the idea that the weather in SF is a big selling point. The average high just barely gets above 70 for about 1 month (Sept.). I guess there are probably some people that enjoy colder summers, but I wouldn’t call it a plus…

The weather is quite compatible with mammalian life. The summer weather in other places can kill you. I think that’s a giant plus.

This mammal likes summer. 80 degrees and sunny.

never trust the lying duck

http://www.euromonitor.com/top-150-city-destinations-london-leads-the-way/article
Top 150 City Destinations 2006
City Ranking '000 tourist arrivals
London 1 15,640
Bangkok 2 10,350
Paris 3 9,700
Singapore 4 9,502
Hong Kong 5 8,139
New York City 6 6,219
Dubai 7 6,120
Rome 8 6,033
Seoul 9 4,920
Barcelona 10 4,695
Dublin 11 4,469
Bahrain 12 4,418
Shanghai 13 4,315
Toronto 14 4,160
Kuala Lumpur 15 4,125
Istanbul 16 3,994
Madrid 17 3,921
Amsterdam 18 3,901
Mecca 19 3,800
Prague 20 3,702
Moscow 21 3,695
Beijing 22 3,593
Vienna 23 3,339
Taipei 24 3,280
St.Petersburg 25 3,200
Cancun 26 3,074
Macau 27 3,072
Venice 28 2,927
Warsaw 29 2,925
Mexico 30 2,823
Los Angeles 31 2,513
Guangzhou 32 2,512
Benidorm 33 2,457
Berlin 34 2,309
Rio De Janeiro 35 2,185
Budapest 36 2,043
San Francisco 37 1,993

dodgerfanjohn says

I’ve never seen so many caucasian people in one place at one time. Like 95% white, 3% asian, and 2 black people. I was stunned. My parents live in HB, and I’ve never once seen such a lack of ethnic mix.

Yet, SM is touted as a place of great diversity, and I’m pretty sure the rich evil liberals there love to take pride in their incorrect belief.

The more southern zip codes of Santa Monica have a much higher Latino population than the northern zip codes. This may not be reflected in restaurant choice. Demographically, Santa Monica is 78% white, and 13% Hispanic/Latino of any race.

Re: San Francisco, it's about 80-85% white/Asian, and has been for a while, but the mix has changed. It was closer to 60% white and 20% Asian in 1980, but is more like 50-50% white and 30% Asian now.

The ways I find San Francisco provincial sometimes: It seems like plenty of people are from out of town and want San Francisco to be the opposite of the small town/Southern town/Midwest town they grew up in. This creates an odd tension between native SFers vs. the vast number of newcomers that doesn't always resolve well and doesn't always result in effective city government or consistent policies (e.g. planning/housing policies, transit, etc.). It also means that some people are more unsophisticated as to tastes (food, museums, etc.) than would be expected in somewhere like SF because they grew up places where you wouldn't necessarily have diversity in those things. It's also a surprisingly intolerant place if you don't fully agree with the stereotyped San Francisco political view, even if you only mildly disagree. The other bizarre thing is the high number of renters vs. owners, but also the high number of owners who benefit a ridiculous amount from Prop 13. San Franciscans also have a highly inflated view of San Francisco, such that if you criticize an aspect, you're either "not accepting of life in the city" or "intolerant" or some other negative comment, as if people have never spent time in other cities that have dealt with the same problems in different ways that were more effective. There's a weird insecurity about San Francisco and how great it is; SFers constantly feel the need to trash LA, but the reverse doesn't happen much.

tatupu70 says

This mammal likes summer. 80 degrees and sunny.

HaHa. Yes. Agreed, this mammal would enjoy another five to ten degrees F every now and then. On the whole, the weather in San Franisco is very comfortable. When I travel to D.C. and Vegas(the only cities where I travel more than once a year), I find it interesting that the hotel room thermostats are almost always set to 68 degrees F. I end up thinking, "Oh just like home." Then I turn it up so the air conditioning will turn off.

dunnross says

The interesting fact about my cousin, is that he lives in NY.

The interesting fact about my cousin is that he lives in NY.

In light of the context of your post, I was deeply compelled. This compelling force is surely an illustration of that which you wrote.

corntrollio says

There’s a weird insecurity about San Francisco and how great it is; SFers constantly feel the need to trash LA, but the reverse doesn’t happen much.

Or a classic comment from a lifetime SF resident:

"People out in the San Francisco Bay Area don't have _real_ places to be as do we San Franciscans. I don't care what they say or do."

(the guy who wrote this is a smallscale slumlord who rents out a real dive in the Mission, while going on all the time about what a great progressive he is).

simchaland says

I want to know where you’ve found all of this “culturally significant stuff” to see and do in San Francisco. Really, I want to know

Awesome! You're in for a treat. I could never exhaustively provide a list, but here's a tiny start.
Exit Theater(local indie theater), Cafe du Nord(lots of local and national music of all types including jazz), Bottom of the Hill(more indie rock, but a lot of other national and local music), The Boom Boom Room, The Hemlock Tavern(where I first heard Joanna Newsom), Hotel Utah Saloon(some country leaning local bands), Theatre of Yugen(all kinds of things, including the most incredible Japanese puppeted Italian opera I've ever seen)

corntrollio says

It’s also a surprisingly intolerant place if you don’t fully agree with the stereotyped San Francisco political view, even if you only mildly disagree.

I also find this annoying, but have thankfully found many other San Franciscans who open themselves to thoughts outside of neat liberal platform packages.

Just to note I want to make it a bit clear I have no problem with liberals or rich people but the limousine liberals don't really jive with me. Also I'm not bashing CA. I hear LA is nice and Santa Barbara sounds really nice.

"People who grow up in San Francisco do share a lot in common with people who grew up in Boston. I’ve known many Bostonians in my day. Both San Franciscans and Bostonians have an inflated sense of importance of their cities as meccas of culture, the arts, and tourism. Both San Franciscans and Bostonians don’t really have much of a sense of what else is out there in the USA because they really haven’t done much to explore beyond their own back yards believing that they have it all. If they would be willing to look outside of their area, they’d find a whole world out there full of people that don’t even have Boston or San Francisco enter their consciousness even when planning a vacation.

Boston, at least, has more to brag about than San Francisco historically. It’s a much older and richer history."

I don't know if you've been to boston (I grew up in the metro area). Some of what you say might be true but it depends. The sport scene is probably the best in the country, the bar scene is nice...It is an odd mix of a state. The real left wing parts are west of worchester..where it also has far fewer people (berkshire county (very rural) only has 130K people..county..not town..county).The problems the area has is too much of the state is tax exempt, this is not an area where people will retire to and there are urban areas that have been left behind (old mill towns). I'd also say that if every student that graduated from the state stayed in it (including immigrants) we be the most populated state in the country! High debt levels and a degree means a flight to a cheaper place.

I think what you are saying was more true during the 80's but not as much now.

corntrollio says

The more southern zip codes of Santa Monica have a much higher Latino population than the northern zip codes. This may not be reflected in restaurant choice. Demographically, Santa Monica is 78% white, and 13% Hispanic/Latino of any race.

The restaurant was El Cholo.

While El Cholo is no where near authentic mexican food, the downtown LA location on non Staples center event nights is around 80-90% latino customers. I live down the street and the neighborhood is highly mixed.

The only latinos in El Cholo Santa Monica last night were the employees.

God I hate liberals so much.

dunnross says

he has never been to a city where he met people more conceited and arrogant than the ones he met in SF

They are not conceited and arrogant.

They are Cool and Hip.

And "doing the kid thing" can interfere with that.

FunTime says

simchaland says

I want to know where you’ve found all of this “culturally significant stuff” to see and do in San Francisco. Really, I want to know

Awesome! You’re in for a treat. I could never exhaustively provide a list, but here’s a tiny start.

Exit Theater(local indie theater), Cafe du Nord(lots of local and national music of all types including jazz), Bottom of the Hill(more indie rock, but a lot of other national and local music), The Boom Boom Room, The Hemlock Tavern(where I first heard Joanna Newsom), Hotel Utah Saloon(some country leaning local bands), Theatre of Yugen(all kinds of things, including the most incredible Japanese puppeted Italian opera I’ve ever seen)

Thank you so much! That's what I wanted to know. Now I have some exploring to do.

The Duck failed to answer my question completely. Thanks for paying attention. I'm looking forward to checking these things out. :-)

FunTime says

simchaland says

I want to know where you’ve found all of this “culturally significant stuff” to see and do in San Francisco. Really, I want to know

...Hotel Utah Saloon(some country leaning local bands), Theatre of Yugen(all kinds of things, including the most incredible Japanese puppeted Italian opera I’ve ever seen)

Nuts and bolts facts of workaday life are a whole lot more important than Cool Japanese Puppets or whatever. Preoccupation with all that stuff is for a very small fraction of rich people with the money and leisure time, and also the Cool and Hip.

dodgerfanjohn says

God I hate liberals so much.

You've got some real problems, my friend.

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

Barcelona. There’s a city.

Damn straight. I lived there for a while and my wife is from there. Favorite city in the world (even after seeing the movie Biutiful).

Bring it ON!!!

Not surprising since a large tract building supervisor told me the big secret ...less than $50/sq ft cost to build new.

sybrib says

FunTime says

simchaland says
I want to know where you’ve found all of this “culturally significant stuff” to see and do in San Francisco. Really, I want to know
…Hotel Utah Saloon(some country leaning local bands), Theatre of Yugen(all kinds of things, including the most incredible Japanese puppeted Italian opera I’ve ever seen)

Nuts and bolts facts of workaday life are a whole lot more important than Cool Japanese Puppets or whatever. Preoccupation with all that stuff is for a very small fraction of rich people with the money and leisure time, and also the Cool and Hip.

Really? I like cultural experiences, art, music, theater, dance, etc.

I don't make very much. Growing up we didn't have much money. My parents exposed us to a rich tapestry of art, music, theater, dance, culural experiences, cuisines, etc. My father, being 1/2 Italian, was an Opera fanatic. He was always blasting opera such that the walls would vibrate while the neighbors would blast rock, top 40, and country. Also he'd play jazz, swing, and the blues on the stereo.

My parents would bring us to free concerts in Grant Park, Chicago. They'd take us to museums on "free days." They would take us to many natural areas in Illinois and Wisconsin. Once Dad made a little more money, he would take us on longer road trips where we would drive, see sights, and stay in cheap motels. Dad was a high school English teacher so he made sure we went to the libraries to check out books. Mom liked to teach us art and crafts.

You don't have to be rich or in the leisure class to enjoy what life has to offer. You just have to have some curiosity and creativity to find this stuff on the cheap if you are working class like me and my family.

simchaland says

ou don’t have to be rich or in the leisure class to enjoy what life has to offer.

Yup. Enjoying is not the same as a preoccupation. I enjoy the arts too. And I enjoyed seeing productions at my kids' public high school as much as seeing the shows in the SF Theatre District. No, I take that back. I did like the shows in SF, but I liked the amateur ones even more.

FunTime says

Awesome! You’re in for a treat. I could never exhaustively provide a list, but here’s a tiny start.
Exit Theater(local indie theater), Cafe du Nord(lots of local and national music of all types including jazz), Bottom of the Hill(more indie rock, but a lot of other national and local music), The Boom Boom Room, The Hemlock Tavern(where I first heard Joanna Newsom), Hotel Utah Saloon(some country leaning local bands), Theatre of Yugen(all kinds of things, including the most incredible Japanese puppeted Italian opera I’ve ever seen)

Thats why residents, young ones, are broke. Live paycheck to paycheck. Gotta to out gotta spend on the trendy stuff... the above isnt free nor cheap.

Its true, we in the south bay, lack culture .. too busy working 10-12 hour days. And whats the payoff? A chance to do things others dream of.

Even better than the Hip and Cool Culture is the recreation stuff around here that is possible because of the topography. But that can cost even more than the culture, because of the gear and the travel. It is the reason even though I only ever lived here, my first trip to the slopes was in my 40's already. At that point, might as well learn snowboarding with my kids, because the skiscene looks so much more pretentious.

sybrib says

Even better than the Hip and Cool Culture is the recreation stuff around here that is possible because of the topography.

Any chance of me firing off a couple rounds from my .308 in SF prime ? Na! I think not... You know you can do duck hunting in Sunnyvale...

http://mountainview.patch.com/articles/start-of-duck-hunting-season-rattles-some-feathers

Meh, I'm not into musicals. I don't count Broadway shows that make it to all major US cities as original theater. I could see all those shows back in Chicago or New York. They don't make San Francisco a cultural mecca. They are cast offs from New York.

There are real Picasso installations in Chicago that are part of that city's regular ambiance that Picasso actually created for Chicago and he installed these installations himself. They are unique pieces that are uniquely Chicagoan. The Art Institute of Chicago has originals from masters that are permanent installations. King Tut made it to Chicago in the 1970's and in the early 2000's and I saw it both times. Also I've been to Cairo to see the real thing at the Cairo Museum. And I went to the Valley of the Kings to visit the real tombs.

None of that is uniquely San Francisco.

Also, those 66 concerts make their tours to every major city in the US. That isn't uniquely San Franciscan.

I'm looking for San Francisco's contribution to the world of the arts. I'm still not seeing much that originates in San Francisco.

For a city that does a lot of bragging about being a mecca of culture, San Francisco doesn't contribute much to the arts that is unique and originates from San Francisco.

thomas.wong1986 says

A chance to do things others dream of

Just curious--what is that?

The DeYoung museum has a fantastic collection of Asian art if you're interested in that.

There's a restaurant called, "The Garlic Rose," where everything you order has garlic in it.

If you want really good Chinese food, it's really in Mountain View and Cupertino now, I think SF chinatown is a bit more touristy these days. The spicy Beef Noodle Soup at A&Js in Cupertino used to be very good. I don't know if it still is.

The maritime museum is supposed to be pretty good.

Is it Angel Island? You can see where a lot of Chinese immigrants came to SF during the gold rush and wrote poems on the walls wall waiting to be admitted into CA.

Alcatraz

For biology class, we did a boat tour of San Francisco bay and took samples of fish, etc. I don't know if they offer anything like that for tourists. The SF opera house is kind of interesting to see. No, it's not as fancy as the met, but if you sit in the balcony, you can have the unique feeling that you are going to fall out the balcony floor is so steep.

The conservatory (building left from the world's fair) and gardens in Golden Gate Park are supposed to be pretty good.

IN San Jose you can see the Winchester Mystery House.

There are a few redwood parks within a short driving distance of SF.

Not close, but Sonoma wine country (a little less touristy than Napa)

So, I've got little kids and not a lot of time to do touristy stuff right now, but those are a couple uniquely SF things I can think of off the top of my head.

tech museum san jose

thomas.wong1986 says

Thats why residents, young ones, are broke. Live paycheck to paycheck. Gotta to out gotta spend on the trendy stuff… the above isnt free nor cheap.

Oh man, I disagree with your last point. All of the places I mentioned rarely have events over twenty and most of the music clubs I mentioned usually have $7-10 cover charges.

Young people do live paycheck-to-paycheck, but that's not unique to SF. It's easy to understand too, with so many interesting events going on every week.

On top of what I listed, national touring music acts often start their tours on the West Coast because of the weather and they almost always play San Francisco unless they're a mega-big, popular act. So the Spring is incredible in SF. There's always way too many music acts to possibly catch.

I forgot the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in October!! One of the best events. Very crowded, but if you pick the strategy of hunkering down at one stage and staying put, soaking up some sun, and having a cold one, this event is amazing. And it's FREE.

simchaland says

Also, those 66 concerts make their tours to every major city in the US. That isn’t uniquely San Franciscan.

There are some really cool things with big music acts that happen because SF mostly has small venues. Like The Black Crowes playing five nights at The Fillmore.

simchaland says

They are unique pieces that are uniquely Chicagoan.

I can certainly understand a love affair with Chicago. I love that city and visit whenever I get a chance.

simchaland says

There are real Picasso installations in Chicago that are part of that city’s regular ambiance that Picasso actually created for Chicago and he installed these installations himself.

Like the Holdenberg sculpture on the Embarcadero? I get the idea you're looking for very specific things. I'd be surprised if you didn't find them.

simchaland says

I’m looking for San Francisco’s contribution to the world of the arts. I’m still not seeing much that originates in San Francisco.

Do you have a specific time period in mind? Only contemporary contributions?
It's difficult to attribute a city with major art contributions, since big changes and movements usually come from many individuals and locations and represent a more complex system than is reflected in simple labels like "The Beats" or "The Hippies" or "Psychedelia." The Grateful Dead, for example, spent a lot of their early development south of San Francisco near Palo Alto. Still San Francisco is generally attributed a role in fostering Beat Poetry, Psychedelic Music, New Journalism, American Punk music, major American cinema influence and contribution, metal music, and political/people movements which occurred in the 1960's. I'm an amateur student of these things, though, so check it out yourself.

dodgerfanjohn says

The restaurant was El Cholo.

While El Cholo is no where near authentic mexican food, the downtown LA location on non Staples center event nights is around 80-90% latino customers. I live down the street and the neighborhood is highly mixed.

You're talking about the valet-parked El Cholo in Santa Monica and trying to make a statement about diversity? That really makes your comment fall flat. It's like complaining there aren't enough Chinese people at the PF Chang's near the 3rd Street Promenade. That's not to say El Cholo is a bad place, but you have to put it in context.

illustrateth says

There’s a restaurant called, “The Garlic Rose,” where everything you order has garlic in it.

Do you mean the Stinking Rose? It's not bad if you know what you're in for, but it's not that different from all the other tourist traps in North Beach except for the heavier garlic emphasis. Also, how is it uniquely San Francisco if you can find the exact same restaurant in Beverly Hills?

SF ace says

Per capita/GDP and median income is the highest in the United states. This is a wealthy region no matter the metric and top heavy.

That's true of the Bay Area in general, and partly because of the wealth down the Peninsula, but that doesn't apply to the city and county of San Francisco.

Also, is your 130K millionaires in now 800K+ San Francisco accurate? I've seen heavy doubts about that number before, here is a random link off Google:

http://sfist.com/2009/07/16/two_studies_conflict_over_number_of.php

That's not to say that there aren't a decent number of wealthy folk in SF, but it's not as much as the rumors often say. The median income in SF is still quite low.

Except where 1. employment is good 2. wages are good 3. new fools, e.g. foreigners with aspirations and no knowledge of history 4. excellent prime locations e.g. Carmel, prices in general are going down.
The situation will not improve with the present anti-energy, anti-business, pro-regulation climate. When this changes it will be after more political change. This requires elections.
Even then, if and when the economy improves so employment may improve, as soon as interest rates go up (which is inevitable), house prices will fall a little bit more.
People who have an emotional investment will argue and fight the reality staring them in the face. This is just typical human behavior.
The Catalyst in santa cruz is for sale for 2.2 million. There is so much empty commercial real estate in the downtown right now. There is a new and empty building across from O'Neill. There are tons of empty storefronts. My friend was almost bursting a vein in his neck arguing with me that the Catalyst would be a pretty good purchase for 2.2 million. I laughed at him.
Oh, he's got a little mortgage problem himself, so he's touchy on the subject.
Another guy I know inherited $90K and bought a tiny shack 670 square ft. for $450K, and wanted to "flip" it. Instead, he wanted to hold it a little while and make MORE Money. What happened? He lost it, lost everything, and the bank lost a bundle too.

SF ace says

Metro Wealth index: 2011. This is invest-able assets, so excludes home equity.

San Francisco #5 138,300

http://www.therichest.org/nation/american-cities-with-the-highest-millionaires-2011/

Again, that is San Francisco MSA (which does not include San Jose MSA), not the City and County of San Francisco. You are comparing apples and oranges because you are trying to make claims about the City and County of San Francisco by using data about either San Francisco MSA or the Bay Area in general.

San Francisco COUNTY does not even come up on the Top 25 for Median Household Income -- Marin and Santa Clara are 18th and 19th:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States