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Where is everyone getting the money?


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2011 Jul 12, 5:04am   37,603 views  166 comments

by exfatguy   ➕follow (0)   💰tip ($0.10 in tips)  

So all of you cash buyers, and those that can afford high down payments in pricy areas, if you don't mind my asking, where are you getting the money? Sometimes it seems like everyone but me in the Bay Area has hundreds of thousands in cash to plunk down on houses. Am I really the only one that doesn't?

So, if you don't mind, enlighten me. Where did you get your money, especially those that can throw, say, $300K-500K (or more) on a house.

Is it...

1. You just worked hard and saved. All blood, sweat, and tears!
2. Worked hard, got a bit lucky with stock options, made out like a bandit.
3. Inheritance
4. Lottery
5. Bought homes at start of (or before) bubble, then wisely cashed out at peak.

So which is it? The only things I might ever have a chance at are (1) and (2), but if that's not enough, then perhaps I shouldn't even bother trying, at least in the Bay Area.

Thanks!

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106   corntrollio   2011 Jul 14, 7:22am  

Magic says

I know lots of Asian families are renting out rooms or living a few families in a house to pay down the house faster. One around the corner has 7 cars in their house.

In fact this is common for any group of people who are more communitarian than the stereotypical more individualistic American, or any group of people for whom it's more common to have people of more generations living together. It wasn't nearly as uncommon even in the US only a generation ago -- my in-laws lived at one of their parents' house, even for some small period of time after they had kids in order to save money. In addition, each of them lived at their respective parents' house as adults until they got married, which is less common here in the US these days too.'

Michinaga says

The key is to (1) not live in the Bay Area, and (2) not buy too much house. My condo is urban-sized, which means no extraneous space and no pointless, time-consuming yardwork (and thus no long commute, and no automobile, and none of the other hidden costs of suburbia), and in the future when kids come along (hopefully!), we can move into something bigger and rent this out to pay for it.

But you do have to be careful that transaction costs don't kill you on this. Buying property has transaction costs, and if you have a short time horizon for staying in a "starter house," you can get nailed on transaction costs. You also have to make sure it makes financial sense to rent out the prior house, or it's better to just sell.

Not living in the Bay Area certainly helps with the value proposition in many cases. The Bay Area is certainly one of the worst places in the country to find rental properties to invest in (not suggesting you can't find them, but just that it's easier to find cashflow elsewhere).

107   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jul 14, 12:18pm  

corntrollio says

Yeah, your friend's friend's friend's cousin's dentist's brother-in-law's neighbor said this. I get it.

Actually, the first colleague I know who fit that pattern was my boss, this was during the dotcom days. After he returned, another engineer that was my peer, working in the same department for the same boss, did the same thing.

I actually showed my boss that letter to the editor to ask him if it's true. He was a very personable guy. He just smiled and didn't say anything. Yep. Better to be discreet than to boast.

A few years later a couple of other engineers followed the same sequence: green card, "bride from back home", then Fortress House, within a year or so time frame. One of them was also a peer in the department, the other was in a department we worked with.

I don't really care if you believe it or not, but that is what happened, these were other engineers, my coworkers, not some sixth degree of separation rumor persons. Believe what you want to. Call me a liar if you want to. Sticks and stones. I have better things to do than make up phoney stories for a weblog.

108   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jul 14, 12:33pm  

mdovell says

I hear Japan in general can be very rough against foreigners working there

That is interesting. Did you hear any specifics about it?

109   Â¥   2011 Jul 14, 2:31pm  

The sample of foreigners Japanese people are exposed to in Japan is far from a random distribution. They get their share of lechs, clods, crazy, and inconsiderate gaijin.

The Japanese, being relatively isolated on their own little island at the edge of the world for a millennia and more, have a right to be chauvinistic about their own culture and judgmental about other people that they become exposed to.

Hitler and Goebbels spun up some pop-culture racial superiority BS from 19th century Romantics, but the Japanese have the luxury of actually having a very deep and impressive cultural tradition of their very own, even if 90% of it was appropriated from others, often quite literally.

Unlike the US or (for the most part) the EU's new attempt at "multiculturalism", people not born in Japan of Japanese parents are (with very few exceptions) still very much out-group and 1.5 class citizens at best.

But things are slowly changing I guess and the zainichi Koreans are slowly assimilating I suppose. Much of the Japanese entertainment industry is Korean-Japanese, almost to the extent and sub-rosa visibility that Hollywood is Jewish-American.

Not a whole lot of effort is made by Japanese to self-understand or improve this situation. Things are as they are, and might get better, or might not.

As the generation that remembers WW2 passes on, and contacts within the Far East continue to intertwine the neighboring cultures, I think things will get better. The System does tend to do a real good mindfuck on Japanese kids growing up though, imprinting a certain degree of cultural conservatism coupled with an abject lack of knowledge of history, 1925 - August 5, 1945.

110   corntrollio   2011 Jul 15, 3:37am  

Sybrib says

I don't really care if you believe it or not, but that is what happened, these were other engineers, my coworkers, not some sixth degree of separation rumor persons.

What you have absolutely no knowledge about is the actual dowries -- you are just stereotyping and assuming. I doubt any of them told you anything, and even your boss appears to have smiled and muttered "silly American" to himself. The dowry system is largely extinct in Indian cities, and there's no way that village people are saving up $100K cash as you claimed in another thread.

111   chip_designer   2011 Jul 15, 3:44am  

edvard2 says

renting cheap, driving the same worn-out ancient beater cars, rarely eating out, picking up furniture from the side of the road, not buying whatever latest gadget exists out there

you are a cheap bastard :) or you are one unique caucasian
you must not be married, are there girls who likes cheap life?

112   Ace   2011 Jul 15, 5:54am  

Many buyers in higher RE markets have corporate relocation packages that include home sale help for their old place, down payment loan if needed, buy downs and all sorts of help built into their purchase. They also get the better deals from banks be/c the employer, and they are in a higher mgmt/exec salary bracket.

113   thomas.wong1986   2011 Jul 15, 6:37am  

Ace says

Many buyers in higher RE markets have corporate relocation

In the Bay Area, you mean very few... we had 400 public companies back in 2000, down to low 200s today.

Plenty supply of CEO, CFO, VPs, mid managers and staffers kicking the can the down the street. They are all begging for jobs today, and since SOX you can forget about Perks.

114   corntrollio   2011 Jul 15, 6:39am  

Ace says

Many buyers in higher RE markets have corporate relocation packages

A lot of relo packages that have housing-specific items (as opposed to "we are giving you $X for relo") focus on transaction costs, e.g. realtor fees and closing costs, often with a cap, and often they'll reimburse for hiring movers. More common is just either $X or "we'll pay for your movers."

If you're talking C-level, a lot of C-level people already live here.

115   Jimbo in SF   2011 Jul 15, 7:12am  

I'm an immigrant, definitely no help from parents etc.

This how I saved the $300k downpayment to buy a house in SF:
- Both wife and I are frugal
- Kept monthly bills to a minimum (only recently got cable TV as I wanted better Internet speed)
- 2nd hand cars which I keep for a long time
- Took advantage of rent controlled apt in SF which really helped savings
- Invested in the stock market, foreign currency, gold, property outside of CA
- HH salary rose from prob $80k to $250k over 13 yrs

116   burritos   2011 Jul 15, 7:32am  

JonnyG says

burritos says

JonnyG says

When I had extra money, you bought a ski boat and a nice vacation. I never took vacations for more than a couple days in my 20's and 30's and I invested any extra money in my own business.

When you missed payments occasionally and didn't work to protect your credit, I used my good credit to take out out loans for my business.

When you were avoiding risk, I put everything I had into my business and risked it all for 20 years.

Now that I am in my 40's I have some money in the bank. Go figure.

Good job. If 1/4 of the Americans were this industrious, we'd be in good shape. Unfortunately it's probably less than 1%.

Funny how my income is in the top 1% now...so was my effort.

I think there was a misunderstanding. What I was trying to say that more people should put in the effort that you've described. If people did, we'd be in good shape. However, I think less than 1% of the population works this hard. Therefore, it'd make sense that your income would be in the the top 1%.

117   mdovell   2011 Jul 15, 9:58am  

Japan certainly is a odd case because unlike say Germany it is an island and relations were not (and some could stay still are not) fixed with neighbors. US bases and involvement in the korean and vietnam wars coupled with the western isolation of Japan and the cold war itself contributed to the mindset.

When you combine a long life expectancy (which keeps growing) and low birth rate eventually you can have labor shortages. From what I understand it looks like it is Brazilians that make up some of the labor force
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilians_in_Japan

118   Â¥   2011 Jul 15, 10:40am  

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/business/global/23immigrant.html

at this point -- strong yen and weak yuan -- it makes much more sense for Japan to pay Chinese to work in China.

There are 12 yen to the yuan. Y1200 is an average wageslave salary in Japan, but the 100 kuai in China is some big bucks --

http://en.ce.cn/subject/mncsinchina/mncsinchinamncs/201103/14/t20110314_22296258.shtml

says a MONTHLY salary is 1500 kuai, so 15 hours of cheapish labor in Japan is the same cost as a MONTH in China.

This was my theory for studying Mandarin back in 2008-2009. I didn't want to work in China or Taiwan, but I think being trilingual in Japanese/Mandarin/English will be useful, career-wise.

119   Dan8267   2011 Jul 15, 1:04pm  

agrifolia says

For me it's about half inheritance from grandparents and half saved income from being longtime DINK (until recently).

Wow, Dink. Haven't heard that acronym in 20 years.

120   ppexx   2011 Jul 16, 10:47pm  

It is easy:
Live the simple life, do buy/own a lot of junk
Live below your means
Immediately move from the hell hole of California
Do not buy stocks, buy RE
No credit card debt, no car loans, go in to debt for RE only
Do not listen to morons that recommend you rent, buy RE cheap

121   bubblesburst   2011 Jul 17, 12:59am  

Worked extremely hard for many years since graduating University. Paid off all debt and stayed out of debt. Lived within my means and took advantage of the power of compound investing since I was 21.

I've been fortunate that I've had executive level jobs all my life and made great income. Sold my house and all USA real estate before the crash and bought real estate in other places around the world where it wasn't out of whack like the USA. (And in most of those places now the real estate has doubled in value).

Although I'd continue buying investment properties, my primary residence I rented for 7 years waiting for real estate values in the USA to crash. I finally gave in and bought a home a few weeks ago.

Then it just became a matter of continuing to work really hard, spinning off rental income from the other properties and continuing that pattern and saving up.

Lots of blood, sweat and tears.... It's my opinion that short of winning the lottery or inheriting money or having a trust fund set up for you....there is no short cut to building up lots of wealth other than hard work or lots of luck maybe in picking the right stocks.

122   Tude   2011 Jul 17, 2:00am  

bubblesburst says

Worked extremely hard for many years since graduating University. Paid off all debt and stayed out of debt. Lived within my means and took advantage of the power of compound investing since I was 21.

I've been fortunate that I've had executive level jobs all my life and made great income.

Some people just don't have a clue....

123   bubblesburst   2011 Jul 17, 5:05am  

Tude says

bubblesburst says

Worked extremely hard for many years since graduating University. Paid off all debt and stayed out of debt. Lived within my means and took advantage of the power of compound investing since I was 21.

I've been fortunate that I've had executive level jobs all my life and made great income.

Some people just don't have a clue....

Tude,

NOW that we can both agree on. Some people have no clue is right. Never before have so many people woken up to the fact that they are worth NEGATIVE $0. Not only do they have no net worth but a negative net worth. Very scary.

124   ih8alameda   2011 Jul 17, 6:35am  

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

If you really live that frugally and can save $60k in 6 months just buy a house already, even if it drops in value, you can make it up easily. It sure beats being sour and stressed out about when the market will drop another 3-5-x percent.

125   Tude   2011 Jul 18, 2:38am  

ih8alameda says

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

You forgot the fact that you just need to go out there and get yourself one of the executive level jobs. I wish I would have just thought of that!

126   edvard2   2011 Jul 18, 3:23am  

ih8alameda says

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

If you really live that frugally and can save $60k in 6 months just buy a house already, even if it drops in value, you can make it up easily. It sure beats being sour and stressed out about when the market will drop another 3-5-x percent.

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Sure- it sounds like there's some people here who make a ton of money. I do pretty well but it sounds like I'm sort of in the middle compared to most of the folks here.

That said, I did not go to an ivy league school. In fact, my first 2 years were in community college. I transferred to a 4 year college after that ( you could do that back then) and basically came out with no college debt. But... the job market SUCKED when I graduated and I worked minimum wage jobs for 3 years afterwards. It didn't bother me as I had worked such jobs since I was 16. But after having done that and spent years scraping by I had a very keen appreciation of money when I landed my first "real" job. It took me almost 3 years to save $10,000 working at those low income jobs. Something that I was very proud of. In the last 7-8 years I can save a lot more then that in a year. But- having said that, if you've worked in a job where you make squat for years, you learn what "working for a living" is all about. Its hard. Its not easy. So you better bet that I count every single penny because I don't ever want to go back to making nothing for a living. I intend to never be put into that situation again and thus why I save as much as I can. If I had not had that experience of seeing what its like to live off of $8 an hour perhaps I'd be some big spendthrift and own a new Bimmer every 5 years. In a way I'm glad I had that experience. You learn how much a dollar is really worth.

127   JG1   2011 Jul 18, 3:59am  

bubblesburst says

I've been fortunate that I've had executive level jobs all my life and made great income.

Your first job(s) was (were) executive level? How did that come about? Even assuming a great education and resume, most people have to start below that, unless they have some special connections, nepotism, etc.

Now I see that Patrick really is filled with bad advice. Pretty much everyone who responded worked hard and got nothing from anyone else. Apparently most people can save $60k in 6 months because they drive 10yr old cars. Give me a f-ing break.

It is worth noting that those who were able to buy often sacrified in other areas, by driving old cars, not eating out, living cheaply, etc. It also makes some sense that those who are worried about what a $4 Starbucks a day adds up to over the weeks, months, and years, are going to be worried about buying and losing any money on their investment. To have nice cars and take vacations etc you either need to not worry as much about if and when you buy a house, or you need more money.

128   Akki   2011 Jul 18, 4:34am  

I always wonder this. But don't have any answer to it

129   FortWayne   2011 Jul 18, 4:35am  

dodgerfanjohn says

burritos says

JonnyG says

When I had extra money, you bought a ski boat and a nice vacation. I never took vacations for more than a couple days in my 20's and 30's and I invested any extra money in my own business.

When you missed payments occasionally and didn't work to protect your credit, I used my good credit to take out out loans for my business.

When you were avoiding risk, I put everything I had into my business and risked it all for 20 years.

Now that I am in my 40's I have some money in the bank. Go figure.

Good job. If 1/4 of the Americans were this industrious, we'd be in good shape. Unfortunately it's probably less than 1%.

What was the point of life again?

I think some people do miss point of life. We are all only young once.

All these old billionaires/millionaires out there, they'd give up every penny of their wealth just to be young again.

I'm not retired, but even at my age I do have regrets of not doing certain things when I was younger that simply are just not possible at my age anymore.

130   Katy Perry   2011 Jul 18, 4:37am  

Dan8267 says

agrifolia says

For me it's about half inheritance from grandparents and half saved income from being longtime DINK (until recently).

Wow, Dink. Haven't heard that acronym in 20 years.

because you don't live in the Bay Area of CA which is Dink-ville.

131   Katy Perry   2011 Jul 18, 4:44am  

EMan says

All these old billionaires/millionaires out there, they'd give up every penny of their wealth just to be young again.

I'm not retired, but even at my age I do have regrets of not doing certain things when I was younger that simply are just not possible at my age anymore.

all in your head maybe? we all set our own limits. what about the 65 year old yoga student in my class I attend.

or the guy with a traumatic brain injury working at Trader Joes.
makes me think many more things are really possible. Our limits are self imposed most of the time IMHO.

132   corntrollio   2011 Jul 18, 4:52am  

SF ace says

Me and my GF (now spouse) bought our SFH in San francisco for 729K in 2001 after renting together for one year.

I doubt it, considering you can't even get the name of Pacific Heights right. What part of SF?

133   JG1   2011 Jul 18, 4:56am  

SF ace says

Me and my GF (now spouse) bought our SFH in San francisco for 729K in 2001 after renting together for one year. borrowed 35K from my side and 35K from her side

This would be a violation of most lenders' rules, by the way - that side money would have to be an outright gift to be OK under pretty much all traditional lender loan scenarios.

134   bubblesburst   2011 Jul 18, 8:22am  

JG1 says

Your first job(s) was (were) executive level? How did that come about? Even assuming a great education and resume, most people have to start below that, unless they have some special connections, nepotism, etc.

Yes. That is right. No nepotism. Just lots of hard work. My first job out of college I got recruited to do recruiting. I actually started out as a Research Assistant but I quickly got promoted to a Recruiter due to all the money I was bringing in for the company. I believe it was within 6 months. I was working something like 17 hour days. I was really 'hungry' to grow career-wise. I made 6 figures + my first year out of college. By year #2, I made over $250,000.

You have to remember I was only 23 years old and making great money. Instead of going out and blowing it all on fancy cars, fancy trips, etc..... I saved it and invested it.

And it was after my 2nd year working that I got recruited to go work at another company as a Vice President of Marketing. I worked there many years, made Partner and then started my own business that was also successful.

I'm not sure why people have to assume there were special favors, nepotism or that it can't be done. I realize I wasn't the typical kid coming out of college making peanuts but I made my own way. I graduated from University with almost $100,000 in student loans. I put myself through college. No one gave me anything. All that I have is all that I earned myself through hard work and long hours.

I was a millionaire before I turned 30. A multi-millionaire before I turned 35. I'm NOT posting this to brag at all. Just pointing out that it can be done. But again, it took a LOT of hard work, sacrifice and long hours working. I figure if I can do it others can do it.

As E Man correctly pointed out, America truly is the land of opportunities. It seems these days people assume that anyone that has lots of money inherited it or won the lottery but that isn't the case. There are lots of people that just flat out worked really hard and were smart with their money. These days many people want to get something for nothing and that isn't the way to get ahead and get wealthy.

Eman, thanks for sharing your story. I always like hearing stories of how successful people made their own way and built up their net worth. Especially in this day and age where so many people want to try to get ahead without working hard or trying to rip people off. I read some threads on Patrick.net where people talk about trying to cheat the bank, or stop paying for 5 years or this or that ... I get a laugh at those kinds of posts.... you can never truly get ahead and build up net worth that way.

135   JG1   2011 Jul 18, 8:37am  

No offense intended. When you said your first job was at the executive level, I think folks here are picturing you starting as the vice president of a company or something, which strikes them, and me, as odd. Starting as reasearch assistant makes more sense.

I worked as hard as you did after college, but I had the bad luck or bad foresight to be in an industry and position where this produced no financial rewards to me beyond a salary.

In other words, it pays to work hard at a commission based or self employed situation. Working really hard at a salaried job for someone else may get your a promotion, a little bit of a bonus, but doesn't generally have the same financial rewards or the immediacy of connection to effort and reward.

Also, I suspect part of the reason everyone on here says they worked for their money is because those who inherited it or were gifted it or what have you, probably don't want to say and expose themselves to potential (jealous) ridicule.

136   bubblesburst   2011 Jul 18, 8:46am  

JG1 says

No offense intended. When you said your first job was at the executive level, I think folks here are picturing you starting as the vice president of a company or something, which strikes them, and me, as odd. Starting as reasearch assistant makes more sense.

I worked as hard as you did after college, but I had the bad luck or bad foresight to be in an industry and position where this produced no financial rewards to me beyond a salary.

In other words, it pays to work hard at a commission based or self employed situation. Working really hard at a salaried job for someone else may get your a promotion, a little bit of a bonus, but doesn't generally have the same financial rewards or the immediacy of connection to effort and reward.

Also, I suspect part of the reason everyone on here says they worked for their money is because those who inherited it or were gifted it or what have you, probably don't want to say and expose themselves to potential (jealous) ridicule.

Hey JG1,

No offense taken at all friend. :)

No, my first job wasn't an "executive level job". But within 6 months I got a promotion due to the money I was bringing in. You're right that my first job was commission based so if I didn't produce then I wouldn't make money. So nothing was automatic. My other job did have a big base salary but much of the bonuses were also dependent on how much money I brought in for the company.

But I do agree with you it doesn't just take hard work. Lots of people work hard but they might not get ahead. I'm not sure if I consider it "luck" because I think in life people make their own luck. But definitely I do feel lucky in many ways.

I do agree with you that there are lots of people out there that had/have Trust funds, wealthy family, etc. I always had a low opinion of many of those types. Not all, but definitely there were many guys in my Fraternity that were that type. They were for the most part lazy, knew they could fall back on their money. Their family just gave them credit cards where they paid for everything. (Many of them were on the '6 or 7 year plan' and stayed in College forever as they didn't want to grow up and get jobs.

I agree with you JG1 about the jealous ridicule. But then again you have some ignorant people on this forum. One poster the other day made the post that no one with money should be on the Internet or bother posting and some other ignorant comments. You have bitter people like that that resent anyone with a high net worth and that is simply ignorant and wrong.

137   Tude   2011 Jul 18, 9:39am  

bubblesburst says

I agree with you JG1 about the jealous ridicule. But then again you have some ignorant people on this forum. One poster the other day made the post that no one with money should be on the Internet or bother posting and some other ignorant comments. You have bitter people like that that resent anyone with a high net worth and that is simply ignorant and wrong.

That was me, and I am far from ignorant. As a matter of fact I find typically the biggest ignorant assholes are usually the ones running around calling other people ignorant while talking about how special they themselves are.

I just think you are a tool who thinks he is better than everyone else. I'm guessing you bought your way into a Fraternity at some Ivy League school or similar (how else would someone have 100k of college debt at the age of 23 what must have been 15 years ago??). I have known many people just like you, most of the "hard work" was hours and hours of networking.

But that's right, I'm just "jealous" and "ignorant", it has nothing to do with the fact that people like yourself are f'ing the world up for 95% of the population.

138   bubblesburst   2011 Jul 18, 10:02am  

Tude says

That was me, and I am far from ignorant. As a matter of fact I find typically the biggest ignorant assholes are usually the ones running around calling other people ignorant while talking about how special they themselves are.

I just think you are a tool who thinks he is better than everyone else. I'm guessing you bought your way into a Fraternity at some Ivy League school or similar (how else would someone have 100k of college debt at the age of 23 what must have been 15 years ago??). I have known many people just like you, most of the "hard work" was hours and hours of networking.

But that's right, I'm just "jealous" and "ignorant", it has nothing to do with the fact that people like yourself are f'ing the world up for 95% of the population.

Tude said, "Whatever. WTF are you doing on here? WTF are you even on the internet for? 1 million in cash to drop on a house and you ever lay eyes on a f'ing computer let alone post on a internet forum?"

Enough said....

Tude, you might not be ignorant but some of the things you said and how you said them come across as totally ignorant.

I didn't claim to be special and I'm not. I merely posted facts which is what this forum is all about... so people can grow and learn. You can never stop learning and growing no matter how much money you may or may not have.

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder. I don't wish you any ill will but it's obvious you have some chip on your shoulder.

Sorry to burst your bubble (no pun intended!) but it wasn't networking at all. It was actual work. Long hard hours on the phone, cold calling candidates, working with candidates looking to place them, etc.

You say ignorant things like how hard working people are "f'ing the world up for 95% of the population". Things like that are just ignorant. You have a problem with someone that worked hard all their life and was able to purchase a home with cash.

I wish you the best.

139   Hysteresis   2011 Jul 18, 10:28am  

bubblesburst says

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder. I don't wish you any ill will but it's obvious you have some chip on your shoulder.

that's probably why he's called "Tude"

140   mdovell   2011 Jul 18, 10:37am  

Some of the negative attitude comes from the media because "if it bleeds, it reads". The media also reports more that would not be reported in the past thanks to more communications.

Some might get jealous of those with more "stuff" so to speak. I don't because I am in good health and much of what I see is going down in price.

Years ago there was a book called Nickeled and Dimed came out that tried to imply how bad the market is (this was pre bubble). The author made serious flaws
http://www.iwf.org/inkwell/show/16740.html

Here's the book
http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0805063897

Then Scratch Beginnings came out that largely debunked it by doing nearly the same thing
http://www.amazon.com/Scratch-Beginnings-Search-American-Dream/dp/0061714275/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Unfortunately a fair amount of people do not plan in their life. I see this happen time and again. You should always have a plan B if not a plan C. I am not suggesting that it has to be higher education. It can be a trade school, culinary school..heck meat cutters at butcher shops make decent pay if you can stand the cold and dealing with meat all the time.

I do not believe that having a certain "think" at a given point in ones life means success. If you want kids that's fine but that is not for everyone..same with having a house..same with having kids..same with going to school.

A decade ago I used to have long winded debates with a guy from Thailand when he said that "Being the richest man in the world is not necessarily the one that has the most but the one that needs the least" There is a difference between controlling your life and letting your life control you.

141   Tude   2011 Jul 18, 12:19pm  

Hysteresis says

bubblesburst says

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder. I don't wish you any ill will but it's obvious you have some chip on your shoulder.

that's probably why he's called "Tude"

The only chip I have on my shoulder is the one that is there because there truly IS a limit to everything. The more one person takes, the less there is for others. Part of the problems of this world is the "greed is good" attitude and the idea that one cannot have enough stuff. The problem is, that isn't true. The more a smaller percentage of the population takes, the less there is for others. A typical example of this are the traitors of this nation that sell out the working people of this country for more and more profits for themselves.

I live a simple life because I truly believe in conservation. I went from a homeless, high school dropout to a professional with a six-figure salary. I know all about hard work, and I know that I am smarter and better at what I do then most of the management all the way up to the C-level but there's not a chance in hell for me to get there. I personally know some of the Masters of the Universe, I know what drives them and I know how they got there. And there's not a single molecule in my body that is jealous of any of them, quite the opposite.

142   bubblesburst   2011 Jul 18, 12:26pm  

Tude,

Well congrats for what you've accomplished if you went from homelessness to accomplished professional. That's quite something to be proud of.

I never said "greed is good" and I don't consider myself as someone that is greedy. I consider that type of person the Bernie Madoffs of the world or the people on Wall Street. I'm far from that type.

I don't consider buying a big house as being greedy. I have 2 kids with plans to have more and I want to do the best I can to provide for them which includes having a bigger house and unfortunately real estate in San Diego is still expensive in the best school districts. In my quest to not try to be greedy and be super conservative, I paid for the house with cash after I saved up for many years. So that is why I was confused when you attacked me.

If I was greedy, I'd leverage to the max and try to use that money to make more money. That isn't my philosophy in life and I don't tend to buy anything until I save up and can pay for it without taking on debt. FAR from what the greedy type do.

And working hard and saving up for a house is not "taking". I know that many on this forum are against owning vs. renting. But even using Patrick's calculator, it makes sense to buy for me as I'm buying for the long-term and renting something comparable is about $5,000 to $6,000 per month which still doesn't make sense to pay for renting long term.

I don't have any problem with people that have/want a simple life.

I also don't consider myself as a "Master of the Universe". Just a guy that always worked hard, saved up so I could provide the best life for my family. Nothing more and nothing less. While it's true that I own several properties..... I always save up until I can pay cash for a property before buying. I don't use leverage at all which is the exact opposite of all the Masters of the Universe out there.

I take it back that you are jealous after reading your last post. But your last post comes across as much different than your previous posts.

Take care.

143   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jul 18, 1:23pm  

Tude says

I find typically the biggest ignorant assholes are usually the ones running around calling other people ignorant while talking about how special they themselves are

Sounds like you spend a lot of Quality Time among the Cool, Hip (and Beautiful) in the Bay Area.

144   thomas.wong1986   2011 Jul 18, 3:33pm  

Sybrib says

Sounds like you spend a lot of Quality Time among the Cool, Hip (and Beautiful) in the Bay Area.

Yep ... straight out of the East Coast.. 'cause they are special!
Jez!
Will someone please throw me a Coors!

145   mdovell   2011 Jul 18, 10:02pm  

"The only chip I have on my shoulder is the one that is there because there truly IS a limit to everything. The more one person takes, the less there is for others."

What items would that be classified under? Scarcity is based on aggregate demand not individual. In terms of money (i.e. credit) that still wouldn't work because the sources are printing presses not rich people themselves. One might argue we had other forms long ago (as your parents/grandparents about s&h greenstamps)

Are there national and international companies that have more sway? Yes but they still can collapse. Just look at Borders. It takes me only seconds to find a independent book store near me.

"A typical example of this are the traitors of this nation that sell out the working people of this country for more and more profits for themselves."

But ownership is control and we've known it's control for quite a long time. The internet acts as a equalizer. Of course a company is going to believe flattering statements about themselves since chances are they made it up as PR. If we didn't have the desire to profit then we wouldn't have any economy. In the soviet union doctors made as much as janitors so why bother being a doctor? If there is an incentive to do something then people will do it.

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