patrick.net

That's my thought as well. Though these separatists aren't your run of the mill terrorists, they have commandeered world class military grade hardware, in their recent exploits, as they've taken over armories and bases.

And you really have to wonder, what did America leave behind, that ISIS is getting their hands on, as they march through Iraq.

zzyzzx says

Looks like the Russians just made another enemy!

Looks like the Ukrainians, just days after accusing Russia of shooting a jet (and never substantiated) and after weeks of shelling border stations on the Russian side, not to mention butchery of pension protesters by soccer hooligans and Right Sektor, are REALLY trying to get Western Assistance in killing off Russian Speaking Eastern Ukrainians.

lostand confused says

I am surprised they flew over a war zone, where people have been shooting military aircraft out of the sky. Don't they change routes to avoid war zones??

Not when you want to allies to intervene in a war you started but can't finish.

It COULD have been the Sepratists, too - because the Ukies have been using civilian aircraft to fly in troops to occupy Donbass and the airports have been fought over, switching hands time and time again.

Malaysian Airlines can't cut a break. There should be an investigation as to why Malaysian Airlines and Kiev allowed a plane over a hot war zone where planes have been both bombing from high altitude and have been shot down for weeks now.

Don't let this be a Luisitania.

Call it Crazy says

Just heard on the news that one of our Army generals said it was a SA-17 missile supplied by Russia to the Separatist rebels... If true, the SA-17 ain't no toy..

Or taken from Ukie military defectors, the freedom fighters have gotten a lot of equipment that way. The Ukie forces depend on Europe-wide recruitment of Skinheads because the Regular Army and the hastily drafted, underfed and nonpaid conscripts aren't interested in fighting.

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

CaptainShuddup says

Strategist says

It was flying at 33,000 feet. This is gonna give ideas to our friends Al Qaeda.

Some believe that it was the Separatist rebels, trying to suck Russia into the fight.

Could be. My fear is terrorists will do anything they can to get hold of this missile system. We could end up being less safe.

I don't think the terrorists have rockets that can take out an aircraft at 33,000 feet...

Lets hope they never do. I'm sure they want these missile system. It's the next best think to nukes.

It's all Putin'e fault!

zzyzzx says

Did the Russians shoot down the other Malaysian plane a few months ago as well?

Could be. One of these missiles on a boat, and you aircraft is toast.

Russian TV just hosted videos of Ukrainian soldiers fleeing into Russia, where they are getting medical care. It looks like the Southern Thrust to cut off the Freedom Fighters of the Donbass from Russia failed.

Putin said that he doesn't understand the sanctions since they will hurt US businesses more than Russian ones (ie Exxon-Mobile's Russian Gas Contracts)

The timing is very strange.

I say "Trust No One" - especially not neocons hungry for war.

The 17-year-old jet was shot down over Donetsk in Eastern Ukraine despite commercial aircraft being warned against using the airspace because of the ongoing conflict.

One of the major questions is whether the Malaysian flight crew received the warning from flight safety officials about the risk to safety.

The jet was travelling at 33,000 feet at 490 knots when it disappeared from radar screens over Donetsk.

It is believed that the Malaysian Airlines pilots ignored several warnings to avoid the airspace over Ukraine. It is understood the Malaysian Airline jet used the Ukrainian route to save fuel as diverting north or south would have taken longer.

In April, the European Aviation and Safety Agency warned: ‘Taking into consideration the recent publication by the Russian Federation of a series of notices to airmen (NOTAMs) modifying the Simferopol FIR which is under the responsibility of Ukraine, and their intent to provide air traffic services (ATS) within this airspace, the Agency draws the aviation communities’ attention to the possible existence of serious risks to the safety of international civil flights.

‘Due to the unsafe situation where more than one ATS provider may be controlling flights within the same airspace from 3 April 2014, 0600 UTC onwards, consideration should be given to measures to avoid the airspace and circumnavigate the Simferopol FIR with alternative routings. ‘

On July 8, the State Aviation Administration of Ukraine closed its airspace to civilian aircraft after rebels shot a military transport aircraft that was flying over 20,000 feet.

The restriction, warned commercial aircraft from transiting

British aircraft were warned to avoid the area altogether. A Notice to Airmen, seen by Mail Online warned: ‘Due to the potential for conflicting air traffic control (ATC) instructions from Ukrainian and Russian authorities and for the related potential for misidentification of civil aircraft, UK aircraft operators are strongly advised to avoid, until further notice, the airspace over Crimea, the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.’

The EASA supplied airlines with a list of alternative routes avoiding the conflict zone.

The US Federal Aviation Authority had also banned its aircraft from the Crimea region.

The suspected shooting down of a large passenger plane while flying at altitude presents airlines and their passengers with an extremely serious new development in air travel, according to aviation experts.

They also question the future of Malaysia Airlines - caught in the global glare of bad publicity following the disappearance of flight MH 370 earlier this year.

Strategist says

Lets hope they never do. I'm sure they want these missile system. It's the next best think to nukes.

The next best thing to nukes is a vial of weaponized smallpox and a stack of FedEx envelopes.

Take a look at the launcher for the SA17:

There's a reason terrorists haven't used these yet. Its big, really big and hard to hide. Its also sophisticated which likely means needs a lot of maintenance and parts.

No, terrorists have other, simpler ways of bringing down airliners.

If you believe RT:

The self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, which controls the area around the crash site, says that it will pass the flight recorders of the downed plane to Russian authorities.
“In Moscow, they have high-class experts, and they will be able to determine the cause of the crash, though it seems obvious enough anyway,” said vice-premier Andrey Purgin.

Also, the Donetsk Freedom Fighters have yet to bring down anything over 6000 meters yet. The An-26 they shot down the other day was attempting a landing, and the Su-25 was launching rockets in urban terrain, causing civilian casualties.

thunderlips11 says

It is believed that the Malaysian Airlines pilots ignored several warnings to
avoid the airspace over Ukraine

Could be another Jihadi pilot? Why would a pilot ignore several warnings??? Though not confirmed, the last malaysian airlines had soemthing to do with the pilot??

lostand confused says

thunderlips11 says

It is believed that the Malaysian Airlines pilots ignored several warnings to

avoid the airspace over Ukraine

Could be another Jihadi pilot? Why would a pilot ignore several warnings??? Though not confirmed, the last malaysian airlines had soemthing to do with the pilot??

Mish has a thread up about the Ukies shooting down a Siberian Airlines jet from Tel Aviv in 2001.

In that case, the Ukrainian Air Defense mistook it for a training drone and downed it, killing all aboard.

It's very possible they thought it was a Tu-22M or some such.

Hard to believe that the US government/military does not have total satellite surveillance of the area.

For the next 96 hours, I would absolutely take every piece of information about this as rumor. Do not trust any source, or any piece of information. The media are always, always wrong on these things.

Washington just confirmed the Passenger Jet was brought down by a surface to air missile.
Who dunnit?
Bgamall4, what do your sources tell you?

Strategist says

Bgamall4, what do your sources tell you?

The voices in his head aren't going to be much help with this one.

Bigsby says

Strategist says

Bgamall4, what do your sources tell you?

The voices in his head aren't going to be much help with this one.

How did Washington find out it was a missile before the Russians did, when we are not even there? The Israelis dunnit, and told Washington, and the news leaked out. It's obvious it was the Jews with American help, because they want to take over Ukraine so they can get all the oil, while at the same time laying the blame on Putin.

Bigsby says

The voices in his head aren't going to be much help with this one.

IDF ground invasion of Gaza starting at this moment.

Coincidence?

Plus, I was just looking at some photos of Russian separatists, and their arms were bent really weird - never seen men with arms that long, or with elbows that seem to be near the shoulder.

At this point I would lay even money that Ukraine isn't real.

HydroCabron says

Bigsby says

The voices in his head aren't going to be much help with this one.

IDF ground invasion of Gaza starting at this moment.

Coincidence?

Both events happened within hours. It was a perfect plan. The Joos did it to blame the Russians so USA could take over Ukraine, while at the same time the spotlight is on Ukraine, so the Israelis can go invade Gaza without anyone finding out.
Makes sense to me.

Strategist says

HydroCabron says

Bigsby says

The voices in his head aren't going to be much help with this one.

IDF ground invasion of Gaza starting at this moment.

Coincidence?

Both events happened within hours. It was a perfect plan. The Joos did it to blame the Russians so USA could take over Ukraine, while at the same time the spotlight is on Ukraine, so the Israelis can go invade Gaza without anyone finding out.
Makes sense to me.

That and did you see the water bottles. There were water bottles-so it obviously must be fake.

thunderlips11 says

Mish has a thread up about the Ukies shooting down a Siberian Airlines jet from Tel Aviv in 2001.

In that case, the Ukrainian Air Defense mistook it for a training drone and downed it, killing all aboard.

It's very possible they thought it was a Tu-22M or some such.

Idiot.

lostand confused says

Both events happened within hours. It was a perfect plan. The Joos did it to blame the Russians so USA could take over Ukraine, while at the same time the spotlight is on Ukraine, so the Israelis can go invade Gaza without anyone finding out.

Makes sense to me.

That and did you see the water bottles. There were water bottles-so it obviously must be fake.

The plot thickens.
At the same time that airline was being shot down, Obama announced sanctions against Russia. What does that tell you? Microsoft also announced laying off all those people. Co incidence? I think not. They were working on the secret project, and when it was complete they fired everyone.
It's obvious to anyone. The government can fool everyone else, but not us.

That and our resident conspiracy threorist ahs opened a new thread/rant about rabid zionism-it is all fake -by the YingYang twins, err zionists.

lostand confused says

Malaysian jet carrying 295 ppl crashes in Ukraine-near Russian border

CNN is excited to have something to talk about for endless hours again.

Straw Man says

Idiot.

Of course, I'm an idiot for bringing up the fact, not my opinion, that the Ukrainian government shot down an airliner a decade ago.

Strategist says

The government can fool everyone else, but not us.

Of course! Because we can research this through grainy, shaky, YouTube videos and extremely blown-up JPEG's aliased to buggery, and discover the false-flag Zionism that is so blindingly obvious that no one else can see it!

Conspiracy theories are just theories.

What is happening in Gaza is tragic but practically nobody cares. Why should people care?

The rebels have no such airplanes, and the Ukranian government would be nuts to shoot down a Russian plane. And they have the capabilities to know what is up there. The rebels know the Ukranian military has planes, and the rebels lack appropriate tracking capability.

Call it Crazy says

and it takes the heat off of Obama and the Mexico border situation

Indeed, Obama needs to squirm out of that bill he signed in 2008.

Blurtman says

The rebels have no such airplanes, and the Ukranian government would be nuts to shoot down a Russian plane. And they have the capabilities to know what is up there. The rebels know the Ukranian military has planes, and the rebels lack appropriate tracking capability.

We don't know who is to blame yet, but you also don't know what equipment the rebels possess.

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

lostand confused says

Malaysian jet carrying 295 ppl crashes in Ukraine-near Russian border

CNN is excited to have something to talk about for endless hours again.

Plus, add in the Israel ground invasion, and it takes the heat off of Obama and the Mexico border situation...

We have a border situation? How come no one told me?

Whatever: I stand with Israel on this one.

HydroCabron says

Whatever: I stand with Israel on this one.

Best article I've seen thus far on this:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/16/gaza-shameful-injustice-israel-attacks-occupied-people

corntrollio says

HydroCabron says

Whatever: I stand with Israel on this one.

Best article I've seen thus far on this:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/16/gaza-shameful-injustice-israel-attacks-occupied-people

Don't like looking at pictures like that. That poor man is a victim of Hamas, just like Israel is. Israel has no need, and no benefit intentionally killing children. Hamas intentionally puts children in harms way, which is very easy to do since they don't value life, but value the 72 virgins they get to fuck 24/7.
Sick sick sick!

HydroCabron says

Whatever: I stand with Israel on this one.

You do realize what happened the last few "occupations." This won't end well for anybody. Glad I don't live in that part of the world.

lostand confused says

HydroCabron says

Whatever: I stand with Israel on this one.

You do realize what happened the last few "occupations." This won't end well for anybody. Glad I don't live in that part of the world.

I actually agree with you. Religious wars never end well for anyone.

Uh, I'm talking about Israel shooting down this plane.

On Gaza, Israel can blow me.

thunderlips11 says

Mish has a thread up about the Ukies shooting down a Siberian Airlines jet from Tel Aviv in 2001.

In that case, the Ukrainian Air Defense mistook it for a training drone and downed it, killing all aboard.

It's very possible they thought it was a Tu-22M or some such.

Sounds like it was the pro-Russian rebels that supposedly didn't have the ability to use this type of weapon. Perhaps the Russians trained them?? ya think?