patrick.net

SoftShell says

+1.

So simple...yet people die because they are completely incapable of executing that simple sentence.

Maybe there should be a class on this in the 3rd grade....

dodgerfanjohn says

I'd just do what he said.

Or they have something to hide. Like stolen cigars for instance.

I love authority so much - such a rock-stable, firm comfort daddy!

+1.
The crux of the matter.

plymster says

Cops have a crappy job, and are forced to deal with lowlifes on a regular basis. I can see how many of them get an overinflated ego when 90% of the non-cops they associate with are junkies and criminals. Maybe they should be forced to associate with regular people so they don't start objectifying people.

+1.
Dollars to donuts everyone that objects to this has plenty to hide.

Call it Crazy says

PCGyver says

Or how about opening your trunk if he told you to open your trunk you would?

Absolutely, I've got nothing to hide and no reason for him to think I'm a suspicious person.

plymster says

Cops have a crappy job, and are forced to deal with lowlifes on a regular basis. I can see how many of them get an overinflated ego when 90% of the non-cops they associate with are junkies and criminals. Maybe they should be forced to associate with regular people so they don't start objectifying people.

I would hate to be a cop in a high crime neighborhood. Imagine putting your life on the line for people who would kick your balls in rather then appreciate what you do.

I'm fine with this, as long as we give customer service reps, DMV clerks, and anyone else who works with assholes all day the discretion to kill at will.

Reminded me of this...

THINGS COPS KNOW

Not all of these are strictly what the police know that private citizens don’t, but they’re close.

Many are things I wish I could have said, but would have been in big trouble for doing so.

1.) Even though you say differently, you probably don’t know your rights.

2.) If you leave your teenager in charge of the house while you go away for the weekend, he or she will probably do something you forbade them to do. If they decide to host a beer party, your house will be wrecked.

3.) You can’t talk your way out of a ticket. Lots of people talk themselves into one.

4.) Of course it went off. What did you expect would happen when you pulled the trigger?

5.) The electronics in your radar or laser detector work no faster than those in my radar or LIDAR gun. By the time the little red light goes on, I already have your speed.

6.) We know you had more than two beers.

7.) If you grew up with guns in the house, you probably knew how to get to them, even though your parents thought they had them hidden or locked away. Don’t think your kids are any less ingenious.

8.) Arguing with me here will not go well for you. Arguments are for courtrooms, where you can make any statements and ask me any questions you want. Out here, I win all the arguments.

9.) We really don’t care how many FOP, State Sheriffs Association or 11-99 Foundation stickers you buy for your car. If you deserve the ticket, you’re getting it.

10.) Yes, you do pay my salary. Today’s obligation can be calculated by the following formula:
((Amount you pay annually in state, county, or city taxes/365) x (Fraction of budget allocated for law enforcement))/(Number of employees in my organization)

11.) I’d be happy to give you a refund. Do you have change for a penny?

12.) Most able-bodied people really can do those tests while sober.

13.) You are not the first person to see a cop and say "Take him, he did it," "I didn’t do it," or to tell your kid, "If you don’t behave, that cop will put you in jail." You probably aren’t even the first one to say that today. You have, however, caused me to mentally label you as a moron.

14.) The gun isn’t to protect you. It is to protect me.

15.) Your substance abuse problem is your business until it spills over into someone else’s life. Now, you are the problem.

16.) I don’t especially care what your race, religion, sexual preference, ethnicity, political affiliation or economic status is. I do have a bias against assholes.

17.) Can anyone here point out this person’s parents? He just asked me if I knew who his father was, and I don’t.

18.) Believe it or not, you really don’t drive better with a few drinks in you.

19.) Do unto others, but do it first.

20.) We are not armed, uniformed scribes. If someone has threatened, insulted, or otherwise vexed you in some non-criminal way and you want it put on record, write it down, take it to a notary public, and sign it in their presence. Poof, you have a record. If we could make one change to improve society, better parenting would be toward the top of the list.

21.) There probably are teenagers who can handle alcohol responsibly outside the direct supervision of an adult. We never run into them, though.

22.) Please press firmly, you are making four copies.

23.) You are in ______________. We don’t care how they do it in ___________.

24.) Yes, you very well may see me in court. I get paid overtime to be there, win or lose.

Automan Empire says

5.) The electronics in your radar or laser detector work no faster than those in my radar or LIDAR gun. By the time the little red light goes on, I already have your speed.

6.) We know you had more than two beers.

Loved these two.

HEY YOU says

How would you respond to this police officer?

I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you.

I'd respond by exercising my rights under Florida's Stand Your Ground Law.

You don't have to do everything a cops tells you. If a cop tells you to stop filming, he is breaking the law. You have a First Amendment right to film and it has been upheld by the Supreme Court.

If a cop tells you to suck his dick -- and yes, Virginia, many cops have told women to do this including one inside a courthouse -- then you have the right to shoot his balls off before he can sexually assault you.

If cops want the public to do everything they say, then they must not say ANYTHING that isn't a lawful order even if it is extremely inconvenient to their jobs. And the fact is that the vast majority of the things police tell you to do are not lawful orders.

Yes, it is a lawful order to submit to a sobriety test when you are driving and pulled over. No, it is not a lawful order to turn off a camera, or to answer ANY question, or to leave a public protest, or to stay inside your house. Such unlawful orders are no different than a cop telling you
- you have to vote for a particular candidate
- you cannot attend your religious event and must practice his religion
- you must perform a sexual act for him

The problem with our country is that the police do not have enough fear of the public. If they did, there would be far fewer bad cops.

Dan I actually(for once) agree with you. However, arguing there in the field with the cop attempting to get you to allow him to violate you constitutional rights, is plain stupid.

For one he has a gun. Really that should be reason enough.

Your remedy is after the fact.

In the one instance you posted where I can really relate(a cop ordering you to stop recording...which has happened to me before...I simply backed away 100 ft or so and kept recording and later filed a complaint against the officer video and all) my remedy was still after the fact...and notice I didn't become belligerent or aggressive.

There's usually a better or best resolution. Not always is it exact, but advocating an in your face approach when the other party holds a deadly weapon seems to defy common sense.

HEY YOU says

I'll respond to your question when you answer mine. "How would you respond to this police officer?"

Uh, it's pretty easy, I usually do as I'm asked to do. So far I've never had an officer ask me to take off my clothes, do some sexual act (on them or for them) or do anything else that is out of the norm. I keep my hands in plain sight, I carry ID and present it when asked and either answer questions honestly or ask to have a lawyer present. It's not that hard.

dodgerfanjohn says

Your remedy is after the fact.

That's the problem. American citizens should be under no lawful requirement to allow their human and civil rights or person to be violated by anyone, including cops. Having the state acknowledge that your rights were violated after the fact is no consultation or compensation for the violation.

Our courts have the attitude that citizens must accept gross violation of their rights and person including assault, rape, and death and simply hope that the courts will make them whole after the fact. I say we are under no such obligation and if the courts think we are, that is sufficient grounds for revolution.

dodgerfanjohn says

For one he has a gun. Really that should be reason enough.

And that is the only sensible justification I've ever heard for gun rights, but that justification only works if people use their Second Amendment rights against criminal cops.

dodgerfanjohn says

There's usually a better or best resolution.

I'm all for going through the system if the system actually worked, if criminal cops were prosecuted fairly and according to the same standards as everyone else. This doesn't happen.

I would be in favor of a people's court that had authority to try any government agent, including cops and judges, for crimes at its discretion. Such a court would resolve the conflict of interest that prevents the current court system from prosecuting criminal cops. Unfortunately, our government would never allow such an institution because it would put governmental power back in the hands of the people where it belongs.

Ultimately, whenever non-violent revolution is impossible, violent revolution is justify. To disagree with this statement is to disagree with the very validity of our nation and government, which was founded on a violent revolution. America needs a second revolution, violent or not, to get all the criminals out of government. The criminals in government will not allow themselves to be prosecuted by the very institutions they control. Much of our government is organized crime, plain and simple.

mmmarvel says

So far I've never had an officer ask me to take off my clothes

Consider yourself lucky.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/mfY-taPmXxM

http://www.youtube.com/embed/IEzvW5BvY7I

I've got ten thousand other examples if you need.

mmmarvel says

do some sexual act (on them or for them)

Again, just because it hasn't happen to you doesn't mean it hasn't happen to other people every freaking day.

Leesburg police officer accused of forcing a female suspect to perform a sexual act on him in a parking lot during her 2012 arrest

A police officer in a Philadelphia suburb arrested a woman and threw her in jail for the sole purpose of strip searching and sexually assaulting her.

Again, I have tens of thousands of examples, and these are just the known cases.

Power corrupts. The more unchecked power and the less accountability police have, the more corrupt and criminal they will be.

Never judge what is common by your own limited experiences, and remember that even if you made it to middle age without being sexually assaulted or raped by a cop in the line of duty doesn't mean your children or grandchildren will. So it's in your family's best interest to hope this criminal cops accountable even if your family hasn't yet been victimized by them. Otherwise, it is inevitable that one of your descendants will be.

"professor of homeland security" ??

Now I think I have heard it all.

"Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority." -- Sunil Dutta

There you have it in a nutshell. Officer Dutta just can't stand it when people do not obey arbitrary demands, that may or may not be lawful. His authority, real or imagined, is everything to him.

justme says

"Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority." -- Sunil Dutta

There you have it in a nutshell. Officer Dutta just can't stand it when people do not obey arbitrary demands, that may or may not be lawful. His authority, real or imagined, is everything to him.

But policemen are placed on the street to be the authority.

Those who assert their "right" to be troublemakers may or may not be in the wrong. However, they are certainly foolish. It is like asserting your right of way at an intersection against a semi-truck.

Peter P says

Those who assert their "right" to be troublemakers

We are not talking about people who are asserting their "right" to be troublemakers. We are talking about people who are asserting their right -- notice no quotes --
1. To peacefully assemble
2. To video police actions in public
3. To NOT be assaulted by police
4. To NOT be raped by police
5. To NOT be murdered by police

Yes, these are rights worth killing over, killing terrorists over, killing foreign soldiers over, and killing criminal cops over.

A cop who engages in felonies is no different from a terrorist. A terrorist with a police badge is still a terrorist. LAPD, ISIS, makes no different what abbreviation you hide behind. Terrorism is defined by actions not political status.

Rights are not intrinsic. They are merely respected.

Dan8267 says

Never judge what is common by your own limited experiences, and remember that even if you made it to middle age without being sexually assaulted or raped by a cop in the line of duty doesn't mean your children or grandchildren will

So, you suggest that we judge by outliers? I thought you're the scientific one.

Peter P says

So, you suggest that we judge by outliers?

I do not follow your reasoning.

Peter P says

Dan8267 says

Never judge what is common by your own limited experiences, and remember that even if you made it to middle age without being sexually assaulted or raped by a cop in the line of duty doesn't mean your children or grandchildren will

So, you suggest that we judge by outliers? I thought you're the scientific one.

Did you miss the part where he said "by your own limited experiences"

errc says

Did you miss the part where he said "by your own limited experiences"

But our experiences are always limited. Therefore, our conclusions are purely by choice.

Peter P says

Rights are not intrinsic. They are merely respected.

Regardless, they are worth fighting for, dying for, and even killing for if necessary. Otherwise, the American Revolution was unjustified and our government is illegitimate. Remember, our government was founded on a violent revolution. To acknowledge the legitimacy of our government is to acknowledge the principle that people have the right to revolt and that revolutions can create legitimate governments.

justme says

"professor of homeland security" ??

Now I think I have heard it all.

Any different than professor of woman's studies? All academic titles are made up.

What is woman's studies anyway? Is it like researching the correlation between red hair and bad temper?

Peter P says

What is woman's studies anyway?

A hobby of mine since I was twelve.

This fellow does not realize that when the USG is complicit in instituting a two-tiered justice system, that there is no law, and that this grown up and uniformed little boy who demands to be listened to has no authority.

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

I've got ten thousand other examples if you need.

Dude, you really need a life and need to stay off of Youtube..

You live in an alternative universe and an alternative reality.... Reality doesn't live on Youtube!!!

Honey, YouTube is just a video hosting site. Whether I link to videos there or another site makes no difference. It's just easier to link to the ones on YouTube because they can be embedded on Patrick.net.

What you are really objecting to is that I bring forth indisputable evidence to support my arguments, and that puts a damper on your bitching. So now you are making a lame personal attack to discourage me from presenting evidence. Honey, that's not going to work and you look dumb trying.

Evidence only goes so far. If you have a conclusion in mind, you will likely find "facts."

An intelligent person knows his rights. A wise person knows when to assert his rights.

Wisdom lets you grow old. (Or is it the other way around?)

Peter P says

An intelligent person knows his rights. A wise person knows when to assert his rights.

A free person always asserts his rights. That's what it means to be free.

Dan8267 says

Peter P says

An intelligent person knows his rights. A wise person knows when to assert his rights.

A free person always asserts his rights.

People do not really just want freedom. They only want to assert their will.

Some think that intelligence is the ability to maximize future freedom (entropy). This does not mean that freedom must be pursued at every point in time, since global optimization is the goal.

Call it Crazy says

needle in the haystack examples of bad cops

That's bullshit. The examples are legion. The evidence accumulating every single day contradicts your assertion that police crimes are rare. You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how repulsive they are, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

The bottom line is that you and other conservatives are ok with the police performing criminal acts because you think their victims deserve it. And if a few thousand innocent people are also victimized, it's still worth it to be "tough on crime". After all, it will never happen to your family. They are white. And as for the videos showing police sexually assaulting white women, well, you are sure your family is different and Jesus will protect them.

Peter P says

People do not really just want freedom. They only want to assert their will.

A woman is right to assert her will not to be raped by a cop at a traffic stop. I don't see why it is so difficult for some people to empathize with this. Just pretend the women in the posted videos are your mother, sister, daughter. Does that make a difference?

Yes, there are bad apples. Aren't there always?

Police body cameras, together with ubiquitous video surveillance, will protect both sides.

Our loved ones are still more at risk to traffic accidents. We need self-driving cars with cameras inside and out.

Privacy must be preserved inside private properties, but public places should be watched and monitored.

Peter P says

Yes, there are bad apples. Aren't there always?

Saying there are bad apples does not demonstrate that the majority are good. It's a cop out, no pun intended.

It takes a multitude of cops to look the other way and even cover up the crimes of their associates for the police to get away with all the atrocities they have committed over the past 50 years.

Before the 1960s, I would say there were only a few bad cops, but in the past half-century the very nature of law enforcement has drastically changed for the worse.

Hell, the typical cops turn on and stalk the rare good cop like in the case of Officer Donna Jane Watts. So I don't buy the assertion that bad cops are the exception to the rule today. If they were, the bad cops would be routinely arrested by good cops and prosecuted by the state. And then there would truly be few bad apples.

Dan8267 says

Peter P says

An intelligent person knows his rights. A wise person knows when to assert his rights.

A free person always asserts his rights. That's what it means to be free.

Well Dan, what if a criminal pointed a gun at you and said "Give me your wallet or I will shoot you" Would you assert your rights, and tell him to piss off, or would you give him your wallet?

Dan8267 says

Peter P says

Yes, there are bad apples. Aren't there always?

Saying there are bad apples does not demonstrate that the majority are good. It's a cop out, no pun intended.

It takes a multitude of cops to look the other way and even cover up the crimes of their associates for the police to get away with all the atrocities they have committed over the past 50 years.

Before the 1960s, I would say there were only a few bad cops, but in the past half-century the very nature of law enforcement has drastically changed for the worse.

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

That's bullshit. The examples are legion. The evidence accumulating every single day contradicts your assertion that police crimes are rare.

Instead of spouting off like you usually do, how about providing some verifiable data instead of some useless Youtube videos! Show us some true data that shows the majority of cops are bad apples...

We will be waiting....

He has no evidence, because there is no evidence. Sure there are bad cops around, and I hope they are caught and hung. But to say most of the cops are bad is just plain silly. It's like saying most child molesters are nice people.

Call it Crazy says

Instead of spouting off like you usually do, how about providing some verifiable data instead of some useless Youtube videos!

If you consider video evidence and the press coverage to be useless, then no evidence will convince you. You are a perfect example of a conservative who won't change his political stance regardless of evidence. Evidence is irrelevant to you. All that matters is your political position and even falsifying evidence is justified to support that position. To your ilk, the ends always justify the means and the truth is irrelevant.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Peter P says

An intelligent person knows his rights. A wise person knows when to assert his rights.

A free person always asserts his rights. That's what it means to be free.

Well Dan, what if a criminal pointed a gun at you and said "Give me your wallet or I will shoot you" Would you assert your rights, and tell him to piss off, or would you give him your wallet?

Dan has consistently demonstrated that he's ok with the third option, necessitated by lack of physical strength and lack of gunpower...

Piss himself, offer up his wife and daughter for anal rape, and cry himself to sleep each night.

Fact and logic ain't helping you deal with a violent criminal.

Strategist says

Well Dan, what if a criminal pointed a gun at you and said "Give me your wallet or I will shoot you" Would you assert your rights, and tell him to piss off, or would you give him your wallet?

Just because people are sometimes subjected to violence or threats of violence does not mean they or society should tolerate it.

I may give the criminal my wallet, but then shoot him in the back as he leaves. I would be justified in doing so. More importantly, I would be equally justified in doing so whether the criminal was
- a nobody
- a black
- a white
- a cop
- a senator
- the president
- the pope
- or god

A criminal is a criminal regardless of what kind of funny hat he wears.