patrick.net

If rape were legal, this problem would go away.

"Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time."

Apart from being evil, the law is also written by people of low mental ability.

Read the above quote, and ponder the following: What about the case, where there is neither ongoing consent throughout ("oh yes baby, harder") NOR a revocation of consent ("STOP, my consent to sexual intercourse is hereby revoked").

What if neither occurs? There might be some cases where a man says "she was on top of me and continued actively enveloping me after I stopped providing affirmative ongoing consent". Expell her!

MattBayArea says

when women are so drugged up that they can't consent, any sex with them is rape - this change may help prevent that.

No. When they are drugged up they'll say 'yes, YES, YEEESSSS'.
Then they'll say they were drugged up and that was rape.

The law will ensure that premarital sex will be discouraged which will reduce the number of abortions as well as stigmatized bastards in society who wonder why they get passed around like cars by being with mommy from sunday night till thursday afternoon and with daddy from thursday afternoon till sunday night week in and week out.

dublin hillz says

The law will ensure that premarital sex will be discouraged which will reduce the number of abortions as well as stigmatized bastards in society who wonder why they get passed around like cars by being with mommy from sunday night till thursday afternoon and with daddy from thursday afternoon till sunday night week in and week out.

Abortion is not a bad thing. The government should encourage it.

Better yet, there should be a lump-sum sterilization tax credit as well as a one-time birth tax. To be fair, parents can receive a marginal-tax rate reduction.

Peter P says

Abortion is not a bad thing. The government should encourage it.

Perhaps, but it's still better to not have unwanted pregnancy in the first place rather than be in a situation where abortion is contemplated.

dublin hillz says

Peter P says

Abortion is not a bad thing. The government should encourage it.

Perhaps, but it's still better to not have unwanted pregnancy in the first place rather than be in a situation where abortion is contemplated.

Perhaps there should be this college campaign:

IUD, not DUI

What do these affirmative consents say?

Fuck me now, you animal, pull it out and fuck me, I have to have it NOW!

signed: Rabid, Horny female _______________

Gun shy male with random erection______________

Voyeuristic Witness and.or tape/video_______________

CA-if a woman smiles, enjoys sex with you-you still raped her

False.

I think everyone needs to calm down a bit on this.
If a woman kisses you - that means yes.
If she unbuttons her clothing or your clothing - that means yes.
If she is does just one of the many other things that people do when having consensual sex - it means yes.

This law is really about getting state universities to be tougher on, for example, frat parties where drunk/drugged and semi-conscious or unconscious girls are fucked.

Several years ago I had to pick up my 19 year old niece and her friend at 6am from Alta Bates hospital. She had passed out at a Berkeley frat party and someone called for an ambulance. What happened was vague - but it appears she was slipped a mickey and that she had had sex. She had gone to the party with her friend who she was visiting. Same thing happened to her. They arrived at the party at 9 and they didn't remember anything after 10. The call for the ambulance was at 2 am.

My niece is a good kid and not promiscuous. At the time she had a serious bf (who she has since married and has 2 kids with) and the only reason they went to the party was because her friend had a crush on one of the frat boys.

The university police got involved but said it wouldn't be easy to build a case. Both girls were mortified by the prospect of defending themselves and hearing the details of what happened.

This is what this law is addressing and trying to prevent. Will it work? Probably not so much. But it is certainly not "American jihad against men".

Just don't to to frat parties. If they want to meet frat boys, go to the Marina district of SF.

rooemoore says

If a woman kisses you - that means yes.

Maybe when you're middle aged. But no, not to kids. Are you kidding me ?

I feel bad for you if that's your experience.

rooemoore says

his is what this law is addressing and trying to prevent. Will it work? Probably not so much. But it is certainly not "American jihad against men".

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you here.

Peter P says

Just don't to to frat parties. If they want to meet frat boys, go to the Marina district of SF.

The true victims are the parents who are shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars for university expenses often to the detriment of their retirement only to have their "children" do these things at frat/sorority parties.

rooemoore says

but it appears she was slipped a mickey and that she had had sex.

rooemoore says

Both girls were mortified by the prospect of defending themselves and hearing the details of what happened.

This is exactly the problem. The people with legitimate cases aren't the ones who are so quick to launch complaints because they are truly scarred and humiliated by what happened. Under no circumstances should the guys who did what they did to your niece and her friend have been allowed to get away with it. I am truly sorry for what happened to them.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of young women who use the system to get back at a guy who doesn't want to commit, for example. They aren't scarred or particularly humiliated, so they have no problem telling a sordid story just to get even. In fact, they like the attention it gets them.

dublin hillz says

Peter P says

Just don't to to frat parties. If they want to meet frat boys, go to the Marina district of SF.

The true victims are the parents who are shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars for university expenses often to the detriment of their retirement only to have their "children" do these things at frat/sorority parties.

Those parents victimized themselves by not using condoms when they were young.

Is it time to invent a 21st century chastity belt? Entering a secret code to unlock can imply consent.

marcus says

rooemoore says

If a woman kisses you - that means yes.

Maybe when you're middle aged. But no, not to kids. Are you kidding me ?

I feel bad for you if that's your experience.

You feel bad for me because I've kissed girls and had sex with them?

rooemoore says

You feel bad for me because I've kissed girls and had sex with them?

No. Because if true, then in your youth you never kissed a girl who would not have sex with you that same day. No matter how much of a stud you were or think you were, when you're young there are the kind of girls that are going to make out with you and enjoy it, without going all the way that first time. It can be because they wanted and needed to go through lots of teasing first, or because she was the kind of girl that was "hard to get" and concerned about not being perceived as a slut. OR simply that she didn't feel ready or that you were "the one" (to be her first, or her next). That doesn't mean she can't enjoy toying with you and or being toyed with.

I'm not saying I was a cassanova. The truth is I was sort of a late bloomer. But it was the seventies and I was a good looking nice guy who got his share (like in the Bob Sieger song).

Yes, I believe that you had to have missed out if you fucked every girl that kissed you (the same day) - or if you think that every girl that kissed you would have let you fuck her that same day.

Dan8267 says

Unless they arrest every woman who has sex without providing written or recorded consent and receiving the same from the man, this bill would be a violation of the Equals Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. Under law, men and women are equals. Period. No law shall be applied to one while the other has immunity.

Furthermore, this law does nothing to prevent the he said / she said problem. It would make more sense to require all people in California to wear chastity belts that can only be unlocked by the state. That way, consent can be confirmed and notarized, and made a public record. Of course, that means everybody knows who everybody is fucking.

Do not forget a background check and 10-day wait period for everyone who wants to engage in sexual activity.

The changing pattern of Rape in America:

1950

Man just out of prison, in heat, pulls woman off the side of the sidewalk in late afternoon. Pulls her against wall, enters her, and orgasms. About 10 seconds. She gets pregnant, doesn't think about it and he later is killed or goes to prison. Later on that child grows up to be President of a Fortune 500 company because of his shameful beginnings.

1970

A twisted 19 year old, who is impotent, posts pictures of Farah Fawcett on his walls. Bitter at his situation, and angry at his carping divorced Mom, he goes off into the streets with a penknife. He finds a young swinging single woman living alone and enters her apartment. He rapes not out of pleasure but of violence. Later the woman is encouraged to come out in front of a court and go on TV to tell the world about it and remove the shame.

2014:

A college coed dressed up in her 6 inch candies, plaid micro skit and tube top because it's "80s Night" at the bar. Before going she tells her boyfriend she's studying but she confides in her friends she's really out to find a hot guy with a cool car. At the bar, she has half a Cosmopolitan, and tired from schoolwork, becomes flirty with a young physics grad student who works out. They exchange Facebook data and, like most nights, he goes home alone at 10pm to play some XBox with online friends.

Suddenly at 2am there is a loud scratching at the door. She has stumbled from the bar to his dorm room. He lets her in and she, no longer drunk from the long walk, pushes him onto the bed. After 90 minutes of oral, anal, vaginal sex, she gets up, dresses. As she starts to open the door, he asks her, "do you want a cab?" And she says "no".

3 weeks later, she is having coffee with her boyfriend, and he asks if she's had sex with another guy. She starts to cry and say, "this weird guy raped me". Later on the grad student is convicted of 1st degree Battery and put in jail for 25 years because she said "no".

rooemoore says

If a woman kisses you - that means yes.

No, it doesn't. If a man was accused of rape and his defense included the statement "If a woman kisses you - that means yes." he would probably be assumed guilty automatically, and spend life in prison just for saying that, no matter whether he was even guilty or not.

You can't be serious.

John Bailo says

She starts to cry and say, "this weird guy raped me". Later on the grad student is convicted of 1st degree Battery and put in jail for 25 years because she said "no".

Yep, and then are those who criticize me, for wanting to see hoes up in Canada than in wasting time, dating around here.

turtledove says

Unfortunately, there are plenty of young women who use the system to get back at a guy who doesn't want to commit, for example. They aren't scarred or particularly humiliated, so they have no problem telling a sordid story just to get even. In fact, they like the attention it gets them.

Indeed, and the problem is that there are many more of these false accusation cases than there are actual sexual assaults. Read the FACTS of some of the "deemed a good case" cases from Stanford or Berkeley, and you will see that even these cases are NOT good cases, and in some instances look downright suspect.

I'd be in favor of this type of thing, IF AND ONLY IF it includes the parity of seriously prosecuting those who make false rape or molestation cases.

This specific law, though, goes against the actual behavior of women who actually HAVE consented, and would be a bit of a mood kill. I mean, as an idealistic 20-something, I remember asking dates what seemed like the "right" questions along these lines, only to be LOL-ed at and instantly friendzoned.

sbh says

Nope, not even when middle-aged. No way. God, guys can be so dumb. Kissing is just part of a large matrix of behavior from which a guy has to glean the gal's intent.

I disagree, but maybe you're kidding.

Older women are hornier for one thing, and far less fickle for another. If a middle aged woman is kissing you back passionately, she is definitely dtf (down to fuck). Really, I'd say anytime well in to adulthood this is pretty much the case. But at 16, 18 or 20 ? That is a different time and a different game, when some women feel there is something to lose there, and they are far more circumspect about it. And if they are really hot, then they learn that there are some complicated reasons for not getting involved with guys at the drop of a hat. For example the fact that the guy might not be able to handle it, without wanting too much more.

marcus says

No. Because if true, then in your youth you never kissed a girl who would not have sex with you that same day.

justme says

If a woman kisses you - that means yes.

No, it doesn't. If a man was accused of rape and his defense included the statement "If a woman kisses you - that means yes."

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.

What I mean when I say a kiss means yes, is that we may proceed to the next step. Then I moved on to taking off clothes - another yes in the progression towards intercourse.

I did not mean to imply that simply a kiss meant "lets fuck!"

Listen fellas, this is not rocket science -- but then again maybe for some of you it is. Verbal and non-verbal clues that someone wants to have sex with you are pretty obvious.

This law, rather clumsily I'd have to say, is trying to move beyond the "no means no" standard that was easy to defend when the victim was, for example, incapacitated and therefore could not say no.

Finally, the number of woman who are sexually assaulted and never get justice is probably about a thousand times the number of men who are falsely accused.

Since it has become clear that few here actually know what the law says:
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB967

Here's a good read on why the law is poorly written:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/03/california-seeks-to-redefine-consensual-campus-sex-as-rape/

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

I can't get out of a taxi without women screaming CUM IN ME! IN THE NAME OF GOD!

Is this the same as 'yes'?

What's your secret?

rooemoore says

Finally, the number of woman who are sexually assaulted and never get justice is probably about a thousand times the number of men who are falsely accused.

You have got your facts very backwards. Go and read http://www.cotwa.info/ for a seemingly endless stream of well-documented cases of men being falsely accused and later exonerated. False accusation has reached epidemic levels, and is much more prevalent than rape itself is.

Come back when you are ready.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

I can't get out of a taxi without women screaming CUM IN ME! IN THE NAME OF GOD!

Is this the same as 'yes'?

They're either setting you up for a lawsuit, or they are a priest in drag.

lostand confused says

These kind of stupid laws by feminists is what makes even something as disgusting as rape highly suspicious. So a woman didn't say yes, was silent, smiled, enjoyed it and wanted more-technically it is still rape?

Remember that guy who was almost lynched for uttering words "legitimate rape"? I bet this is what he was trying to say.

Rin says

Now, WTF was that? The last time a woman offered to snuggle up with me, overnight sharing the same bed, it was ---CLEAR---, what she really wanted me to do to her. It wasn't to play a teddy bear.

Esc*rts are different matter altogether.

Now if you WANT to play teddy bear, well that's up to you:

http://www.askmen.com/dating/dzimmer_700/739_furries-and-sex.html

John Bailo says

becomes flirty with a young physics grad student who works out.

You had me up to this point. Unless of course the physics grad student lies and says he's in med school.

John Bailo says

Later on the grad student is convicted of 1st degree Battery and put in jail for 25 years because she said "no".

Beat's 25 years of post-docs!

justme says

rooemoore says

Finally, the number of woman who are sexually assaulted and never get justice is probably about a thousand times the number of men who are falsely accused.

You have got your facts very backwards. Go and read http://www.cotwa.info/ for a seemingly endless stream of well-documented cases of men being falsely accused and later exonerated. False accusation has reached epidemic levels, and is much more prevalent than rape itself is.

Come back when you are ready.

You are correct. The number is more like a 100 times - not a 1000 times. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)--there is an average of 237,868 victims (age 12 or older) of rape and sexual assault each year.
Of those 60% are never reported. That's 142721.

This means that 95147 victims report the crime. Of those 2% are false claims. That's 1902 wrongfully accused vs 200k+ victims. Some say the number of false accusations is to or 3 times that number. Even going with those more biased numbers the ratios are overwhelming. The thing is that accusing someone falsely of a crime is in fact a crime and the type of person that does this is statistically predictable(and small)

So you were right that I was over-stating the ratio. My point was that from the victims point of view they are still getting screwed by the system. Couldn't we agree that it would be a good idea to catch more real rapists and also treat false accusers as criminals too?

rooemoore says

Couldn't we agree that it would be a good idea to catch more real rapists and also treat false accusers as criminals too?

Well what would you define as rape?? When you don't have a certified, notarized letter for every stage of the sexual act-this pretty much calls it rape. That is not a victim.

Then drugs and alcohol-the line should be if someone forcibly drugged you like those date rape drugs-yes. but if you get drunk and have sex and regret it the next day-is that your poor judgement or a sexual crime??? Allt his causes is to look at every rape horror story and wonder if the victim is a liar

New Renter says

Rin says

Now, WTF was that? The last time a woman offered to snuggle up with me, overnight sharing the same bed, it was ---CLEAR---, what she really wanted me to do to her. It wasn't to play a teddy bear.

Esc*rts are different matter altogether.

This was before my esc*rting days ... when I was more careless, dumb, young, and full of c*m.

Today, no more relationships.

Rin says

Today, no more relationships.

That's OK, you don't need to be in a relationship to explore your furry side. Just an esc*rt who specializes.

lostand confused says

rooemoore says

Couldn't we agree that it would be a good idea to catch more real rapists and also treat false accusers as criminals too?

Well what would you define as rape?? When you don't have a certified, notarized letter for every stage of the sexual act-this pretty much calls it rape. That is not a victim.

Then drugs and alcohol-the line should be if someone forcibly drugged you like those date rape drugs-yes. but if you get drunk and have sex and regret it the next day-is that your poor judgement or a sexual crime??? Allt his causes is to look at every rape horror story and wonder if the victim is a liar

No matter how you honestly slice the numbers the victims of sexual assault that never get justice greatly out number falsely accused.
Like I said earlier, the law is poorly written and probably wont accomplish what it hopes to accomplish. But it wont lead to more false accusations either. You're over-reacting. If this were a law that was trying to increase the conviction rate of inner-city armed robberies you'd probably be all for it -- false accusations be damned!

rooemoore says

But it wont lead to more false accusations either. You're over-reacting. If this were a law that was trying to increase the conviction rate of inner-city armed robberies you'd probably be all for it -- false accusations be damned!

No it is you who are over reacting and being very defensive. Why would I support a law that was trying to increase conviction rate of inner-city robberies?

It looks like you are bothered by the conviction rate, rather than the crime itself?? How is it rape, when woman did not say no? How does one measure how drunk a woman is?? This is garbage and another law that wants to portray women as meek, helpless wallflowers with no responsibility. All the equality, but none of the responsibility. So what is next a drunk woman is no longer responsible if she takes a car and causes an accident-after all it was the pedestrians fault for getting in her way.

lostand confused says

How is it rape, when woman did not say no?

You've read the law, right? Where does it say "woman"?

lostand confused says

It looks like you are bothered by the conviction rate, rather than the crime itself?? How is it rape, when woman did not say no? How does one measure how drunk a woman is?? This is garbage and another law that wants to portray women as meek, helpless wallflowers with no responsibility. All the equality, but none of the responsibility. So what is next a drunk woman is no longer responsible if she takes a car and causes an accident-after all it was the pedestrians fault for getting in her way.

Wow. This is a tough one.
What if they are both drunk. How do we know who raped who?

rooemoore says

lostand confused says

How is it rape, when woman did not say no?

You've read the law, right? Where does it say "woman"?

if you read one of my first posts in this thread, that is what I asked. if a woman gives a blowjob to a guy who never said no or yes-then technically she raped him?? because he never said yes. however feminazi inspired laws are never applied to men in equal measure. how many women have been arrested because they had sex with a drunk man who was too drunk to say no. I myself in my younger days have woken up with an ugly wrench on occasion after some hard partying. I thought it was my fault for being so dumb and irresponsible-never did I think I was raped???????? If I did, no court will go after her. but if the situation as reversed-there are quite a few men in jail for the same situation.

How many women have been arrested for this crime? How many women have been arrested for falsely claiming that somebody is the father and forcibly taking money from him. In fact in some states, courts have gone so far as to say that it is in the best interest of the child for the non-father to continue paying child support . What about his feelings at having his heart torn out and cheated in such a primal way??

Nope male feelings, emotions never matter. the last few decades have been about victimizing men in any way possible and women controlling every aspect of men.

The law itself is for women and you have given stats that support that and now you say where it says women-how many women have been arrested for raping men?? how many have been kicked out of college and had their lives ruined for raping men. if the same criteria were applied-plenty should be jailed as rapists-but how many are??