patrick.net

Outsourcing often happens because mediocre US employers and managers feel their ego threatened by good employees and lower headcounts. Instead of hiring 2 good employees that will do high quality work at 200k each, they would rather hire 6 H1B at 100k each. They end up spending 600k instead of 400k, but their headcount (status) is higher, and the indentured servant-employees are obedient and will give all credit to the manager (who used to be a mediocre engineer himself). Also, the manager will argue himself a 100k raise for supposedly saving the company 600k=6*(200k-100k). He actually spent 200k more for the same work, but that got lost in the progaganda.

Does that sum it up?

tatupu70 says

It's pretty simple really. Every job that gets outsourced is, what, 5,000,000 pennies? We don't save nearly enough on cheap Chinese crap to make up for that. Even worse, the HB1s that drive down wages make inequality worse. The savings in labor go straight to the owners, making them richer while the average Joe gets poorer.

And, because there is a global savings glut with too much cash pursuing too few opportunities powered by record corporate profits and 1%er wealth, it leads to either rampant speculation or stagnation.

justme says

Outsourcing often happens because mediocre US employers and managers feel their ego threatened by good employees and lower headcounts. Instead of hiring 2 good employees that will do high quality work at 200k each, they would rather hire 6 H1B at 100k each. They end up spending 600k instead of 400k, but their headcount (status) is higher, and the indentured servant-employees are obedient and will give all credit to the manager (who used to be a mediocre engineer himself). Also, the manager will argue himself a 100k raise for supposedly saving the company 600k=6*(200k-100k). He actually spent 200k more for the same work, but that got lost in the progaganda.

Does that sum it up?

While disgruntled employees think so and I used to think the same, after my job was outsourced and I was on the curb, when the tech industry was down-reality is not that way.

In reality a CIO or even above usually hires a very big firm that does a "study". They usually come back with an analysis saying your current structure costs 100 million bucks a year and if you outsource your IT/backend business process etc you can save 30 million and your budget is now 70 million a year and you can show your shareholders and Wall street -increased earnings/gross margin. Then the board makes a decision and hey presto we are suddenly moving to an outsourced position. People below that only get to implement the board's "vision". either get with the program/decision that has already been made or they will find someone to do the job for them-nobody is indispensable.

Yeah it would be nice if the jobs stayed here, all the knowledge and decades of experience stayed put-but hey until a Trump or someone comes around and limits these deals-you gotta do what you gotta do. Currently there is a tech boom, yes, but that will pass and then what will you do. I choose not to compete with 20 year olds from Bangalore who are ready to do the same work as me at grocery store wages.

I mean it is not like the Obama and the dems are going to help the workers-he is the one expanding it through executive order. Trump is the only one coming out swinging against it-I don't hold my breath that he will do much-but hey Obozo actually is going against US workers.

I saw so many tech workers destroyed and -financially and mentally-because some worked in the same place for decades and didn't even know how to put together a resume and interview. Some never got over it and went downhill in life. others managed to survive and some thrived. You can't control life-just be realistic and decide what you want to do with the hand you are given.

Strategist says

"A penny saved is a penny earned" Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off. Everyone filling gas in their tanks now has a smile on their face. (Except Californians)

How exactly does someone that is unemployed because their job was outsourced buying the same thing at half the price leave us better off?

Strategist says

Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off.

When you outsource you don't get the same thing. You get a smelly Indian that really can't code very well. Or you get this:

Or this Chinese brake rotor:

Or this:

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

How can that be Tatupu? "A penny saved is a penny earned" Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off. Everyone filling gas in their tanks now has a smile on their face. (Except Californians)

It's pretty simple really. Every job that gets outsourced is, what, 5,000,000 pennies? We don't save nearly enough on cheap Chinese crap to make up for that. Even worse, the HB1s that drive down wages make inequality worse. The savings in labor go straight to the owners, making them richer while the average Joe gets poorer.

If you have a 401K you are part of the owner class.

zzyzzx says

Strategist says

Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off.

When you outsource you don't get the same thing. You get a smelly Indian that really can't code very well. Or you get this:

The corporations believe they are getting their moneys worth by hiring H1B visa holders.

thunderlips11 says

I thought we were going to export to "A Billion Chinese Customers"?

I guess they gave up on that. At the end of they day, they only just want more power and money, fuck the rest of us.

Strategist says

The corporations believe they are getting their moneys worth by hiring H1B visa holders.

Their customers would disagree.

Strategist says

Dan makes 100K+

I seriously doubt it.

lalalala says

I seriously doubt it.

Why, because you don't?

Strategist says

Dan makes 100K+. And he can't even figure out Mac's are better than PC's.

Translation: How can someone have a different opinion than me, especially someone more well informed?

zzyzzx says

Strategist says

The corporations believe they are getting their moneys worth by hiring H1B visa holders.

Their customers would disagree.

What about the shareholders? I think they would all agree.

Strategist says

If you have a 401K you are part of the owner class.

Not withstanding that you are incorrect about what a 401K is--whether or not I am part of the owner class is irrelevant. What difference does it make if I'm part of the 1%? Inequality is bad for the economy either way

Strategist says

The corporations believe they are getting their moneys worth by hiring H1B visa holders.

No shit Sherlock. You mean companies like to pay below market wages? And force them to work 90 hours/week? I would have never guessed.

Yay, I was laid off from my job, but I have $10k in my 401k, making me a member of the owner class. I can survive indefinitely now.

thunderlips11 says

Yay, I was laid off from my job

Two questions - seriously? Were you really laid off? And second, was this/is this recently??

mmmarvel says

Two questions - seriously? Were you really laid off? And second, was this/is this recently??

No, this was rhetorical. I just got a 7% raise, and I have other shit going on that my family could survive (barely) without my job.

I was saying that having a few bucks in an 401K doesn't make somebody really an "Owner".

Only about half of Americans have anything socked away for retirement, and the vast majority have under six figs in their retirement account.

thunderlips11 says

Yay, I was laid off from my job, but I have $10k in my 401k, making me a member of the owner class. I can survive indefinitely now.

We all have a steak in the economy.

Strategist says

We all have a steak in the economy.

The point is that it's better to have slightly higher priced goods and services with low unemployment vs. lower priced goods and services and high unemployment.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

We all have a steak in the economy.

The point is that it's better to have slightly higher priced goods and services with low unemployment vs. lower priced goods and services and high unemployment.

I Finally agree. Yes, it would be better because more families would be happy, and crime would come down. "Slightly" is the key word, as long as the economics work. eg. Raising the minimum wage would cost us all slightly more at the checkout, but will make the job situation worse for teens, increasing the crime rate. If employers think some teens are not worth $9.00 per hour, they will never think the same teens are worth $15.00.

Strategist says

Raising the minimum wage would cost us all slightly more at the checkout, but will make the job situation worse for teens, increasing the crime rate. If employers think some teens are not worth $9.00 per hour, they will never think the same teens are worth $15.00.

raising minimum wage would cause more unemployment, because at that point we can be at a breaking point where replacing workers with machines gets cheaper. Either way Obama is just trying to make labor cheaper by importing illegals and high skilled workers. So working class is fucked either way.

Strategist says

If employers think some teens are not worth $9.00 per hour, they will never think the same teens are worth $15.00.

You are making the mistake about supply vs. demand and merit.

Merit has little to do with unskilled/semiskilled labor; it is more about supply and demand than merit.

That is why corporations want mass immigration; it lowers their labor costs while increasing demand for the housing properties they own.

FortWayne says

replacing workers with machines gets cheaper.

Nope. Drywall installation, Burger Flipping, Coffee Service, and Item Returns cannot be replaced by machinery.

thunderlips11 says

Nope. Drywall installation, Burger Flipping, Coffee Service, and Item Returns cannot be replaced by machinery.

Uh-huh, nice prototype. Let me know when they're in 1% of the BKs or McDs in the USA.

He'll be rusting away in some warehouse along with the 90s era Virtual Reality Glasses.

thunderlips11 says

You are making the mistake about supply vs. demand and merit.

+1000. People don't get paid based on merit. Or how much profit they add to the bottom line. Or productivity.

thunderlips11 says

Nope. Drywall installation, Burger Flipping, Coffee Service, and Item Returns cannot be replaced by machinery.

Everything can be replaced, the cost isn't that high. Those robotic arms replaced quite a lot of factory workers already.

thunderlips11 says

He'll be rusting away in some warehouse along with the 90s era Virtual Reality Glasses.

I wouldn't bet on that. technology is relentless