patrick.net

CBOEtrader says

Facts arent news. The narrative built w the known facts in this case is the fake news.

Care to clarify what you consider the fake news aspect of what is being reported? And you do understand that the constant way 'fake news' is being thrown around is a misuse of the term.

CBOEtrader says

... those who are familiar w the case say there is "zero evidence."

Zero evidence? You've had one person resign and the current AG teetering on the brink as we speak. You've had Trump constantly contradict himself with his contact/zero contact with Putin. The hacking, etc. etc. There's rather a lot of things that point to there being an issue.

CBOEtrader says

The level of surveillance is unknown. The details of the warrant issued to tap trump is unknown. I doubt Obama did anything blatantly illegal.

Unknown or non-existent? Obviously a basis for an investigation. Or not. And remind us all again what Trump said about Obama.

CBOEtrader says

Trump should NOT have sent those tweets. He should let the legal system do the talking for him.

The legal system should do what exactly and based on what? You've already had the FBI Director stating the accusations are baseless. You want an investigation based on zero evidence outside of conspiracy websites and an unsupported assertion by a President who plays free and easy with the truth, and yet you argue there shouldn't be one for something where there is a seemingly ever increasing number of incidences that potentially point to an extremely troubling possibility. Like I said, go figure.

stop bringing reason into the thunderdome

I would love to see a patricknet moderated ACTUAL digital debate. that'd be fun...

When pressed, 90% of the "lies, lies, LIES" allegations against Trump evaporate into semantics or factless leaps, including but not limited to the supposed Russia/campaign collaboration.

#fakenews is accurate.

Always look for facts underlying any anti-trump claim before buying into the hysteria. As we've seen from this thread and others, there often are none.

CBOEtrader says

Trump and his team were under surveillance. That much has been verified over and over again. Obama's level of involvement is unknown. The level of surveillance is unknown. The details of the warrant issued to tap trump is unknown. I doubt Obama did anything blatantly illegal.

Trump should NOT have sent those tweets. He should let the legal system do the talking for him.

Didn't read the tweets did you? Trump said trump tower was tapped, not that he was under surveillance. The only question to be answered about the tweets is whether the phones in trump tower were tapped or not. Since the entire justice department works for trump there shouldn't be any problem finding out in an hour or so if there were or weren't wiretaps on trump tower. Yet nothing except crickets chirping. Seems pretty strange for such a self declared strong effective business leader to not be able to get a simple question answered. Actually it's very strange considering the amount of political damage it would do the Obama and the democrats if true.

I know It's hard, but try to understand the subject matter and stick to it. Focus.

Ironman says

marcus says

I don't know, but I wonder how many people think that Trumps accusations of Obama putting wiretaps on him, make Trump look a little desperate.

Well, one of your favorite go to "bibles" for accurate news said his aides were wiretapped, would it be a stretch to think Trump was included too??

-

Yeah there's at least a half dozen media references like that. There are huge queations yet to be answered. Whether or not trump was tapped is not one of them

PCGyver says

Ironman says

Well, one of your favorite go to "bibles" for accurate news said his aides were wiretapped, would it be a stretch to think Trump was included too??

Can you please tell us why as commander in chief Trump can't come up with the evidence to support his claim that he was tapped?

It hasn't been a full business day yet... Give them some time.

Most likely his lawyers talked him into restraint of his loose lips.

bob2356 says

The only question to be answered about the tweets is whether the phones in trump tower were tapped or not.

The details of the tap are in question.

bob2356 says

I know It's hard, but try to understand the subject matter and stick to it. Focus.

These semantics turned to ad hominem are childish as fuck. Stop embarrassing yourself

Ironman says

bob2356 says

Since the entire justice department works for trump

Really, there are no Obama hold-overs or loyalists still working there?

Any idea how many of Trump's new appointees still haven't been approved by Congress?

Trump is the new boss, they work for him now. You didn't know that somehow?

Ironman says

Well, one of your favorite go to "bibles" for accurate news said his aides were wiretapped,

No actually it says his aides talked to people who were wiretapped. Not at all the same thing.

CBOEtrader says

bob2356 says

The only question to be answered about the tweets is whether the phones in trump tower were tapped or not.

The details of the tap are in question.

The details of what tap? Don't you think someone, that would be trump, should find out if there actually was a tap? That's the whole point.

CBOEtrader says

These semantics turned to ad hominem are childish as fuck.

Translation, I don't know what an ad hominem is. Let's make it simple. you need to stay on subject of you want to present a coherent argument.

bob2356 says

Ironman says

Well, one of your favorite go to "bibles" for accurate news said his aides were wiretapped,

No actually it says his aides talked to people who were wiretapped. Not at all the same thing.

Piggy doesn't read, he just looks at pictures and parrots what he's heard on Fox.

bob2356 says

Translation, I don't know what an ad hominem is. Let's make it simple. you need to stay on subject of you want to present a coherent argument.

Take your own advice. I've been very clear. Try reading the posts... Or keep embarrassing yourself w semantics and childish swipes at others.

I'm done w you.

CBOEtrader says

Yeah there's at least a half dozen media references like that. There are huge queations yet to be answered. Whether or not trump was tapped is not one of them

Except you appear to not want them to be answered. And the wiretapping reports have been clear about what they were referring to - look at the BBC report for example:
BBC, Jan. 12, 2017: "On 15 October, the US secret intelligence court issued a warrant to investigate two Russian banks. This news was given to me by several sources and corroborated by someone I will identify only as a senior member of the US intelligence community. He would never volunteer anything — giving up classified information would be illegal — but he would confirm or deny what I had heard from other sources. …

"Neither Mr Trump nor his associates are named in the FISA order, which would only cover foreign citizens or foreign entities — in this case the Russian banks. But ultimately, the investigation is looking for transfers of money from Russia to the United States, each one, if proved, a felony offence."
That is the gist of the story from anonymous sources, and that is not what Trump tweeted, though it is more than likely where he picked up the bones of the story and then mashed it up into his own particular take.

The NYT article doesn't actually talk about wiretapping of Trump aides... The anonymous sources said it was a FISA order, so it's directed towards foreign entities - in this case foreign banking transactions, and whether money was funnelled to the campaign illegally.

Ironman says

See where it says "intercepted communications... BETWEEN Russia and associates of Trump.... Manafort..."?

This proves that obama tapped the phones at trump tower how? Gee I wonder who was wiretapped that the communications were intercepted? Do you suppose it could be the russians? OMG who would have thought of it, wiretapping the russians. Certainly no president in history before obama ever wiretapped russian officials. Never, not once. ever. Trumps aides were either pretty amazingly stupid that they didn't realize this or pretty amazing arrogant that they thought it wouldn't matter.

Quick lesson in physics, if a phone is tapped BOTH sides of the conversation are recorded. If trumps people were talking to wiretapped russian officials they got recorded. That's not the same as saying they were the OBJECT of the wiretapping or any surveillance. A concept that you seem to be having a very hard time grasping.

Which leaves the point that wiretapping is but one kind of surveillance. There are many ways to be under surveillance other than wiretapping, I know the difference between the concepts just fine thank you very much. Would you like it explained to you in detail? BTW did you have any kind of point whatsoever with the question about the difference?

Wtf r u talking about?

Nm, I really don't care. Try making a point instead of obsessing over me.

Flattered though :/

Still obsessed w me rather making a point?

I try to understand others. You actively misrepresent others. I guess that's just me. I tend to be more intellectually honest than some people.

Look at your summary of my points, for an example.

For the nth time, do you have a point or are you just obsessed w me?

Only if you're a 14 year old chilien girl masquarading as a wall street maverick...
CBOEtrader says

For the nth time, do you have a point or are you just obsessed w me?

Obama is a secret muslim from Kenya, show me the birth cert.
Obama founded ISIS.
I just found out Obama wiretapped me. (5 minutes later, I'm onto apprentice ratings tweets)
Ted Cruz's father was with Lee Harvey Oswald ...
Crime is rising.
Unemployment is 42%.
Mexico forces bad people into our country.
Illegal immigrants are 30 million+.
There is no system to vet refugees.
My inauguration crowd biggest ever.
Trump U : not A rated by BBB. Winery, small small small, not biggest on east Coast. Art of Deal not best selling book of all time.

Meanwhile:
1) Russia investigations? GAME ON! We are on our way to an independent investigator. Woot woot.
2) All leaked sources in the press have 3-10 sources leaking ... and tRump and the top advisors are PISSED! the State department is especially a freaking sieve. So awesome.

Fine. I'll make a deal w you while all of pat.net is watching.

I will quote your message wherein you blatantly misrepresent me, then quote my immediate reply to that message wherein i correct your obvious and willful misquoting.

After I do this, you will admit you are wrong.

Deal?

You cant remember your own posts.I have no motivation to remind you of our recent history if you wont admit to being wrong, after obsessing over me for the last 20 posts. Weird, btw...

Folks, you cant make this shit up. #projectmuch

FAKE THREAD!

CBOEtrader says

Your points are a joke. "Putin deserves an award for spying." ? yeah, you got me. EYE ROLL

You sir, are not an honest person.

Hmm, to take the comment literally... or not. What about his other points? They seemed to be pretty representative of the kind of things you were saying. How were you being misrepresented in those?

Rashomon says

. How were you being misrepresented in those?

No one will ever know will they?

bob2356 says

Rashomon says

. How were you being misrepresented in those?

No one will ever know will they?

If you have a question about something I wrote, quote it and ask a question. Easy.

bob2356 says

what are your true positions?

on what topic?

CBOEtrader says

Choose.

I choose watching your silliness isn't amusing any more.

I'm guessing what comes next is the "I don't have time to waste On particulars "

Lol

CBOEtrader says

they have a problem staying on topic.

They'd rather argue semantics for 90 posts. This thread is past dead. It's undead

How many of those posts are yours? How many of them are about you saying you were misrepresented and then you being unwilling to explain how? You're still doing it now.

Rashomon says

You're still doing it now.

And so are you

CBOEtrader says

Rashomon says

You're still doing it now.

And so are you

No, I'm not. I didn't say I was misrepresented. You did. I'm not dodging explaining how. You are.

Rashomon says

You are.

Go find my position on an actual topic. State your problem w it, and we can chat. Or you can simply start talking about something relevant like

PCGyver says

CBOEtrader says

It hasn't been a full business day yet... Give them some time.

Most likely his lawyers talked him into restraint of his loose lips.

Why does the leader of the free world need a BUSINESS day? What does he take the weekends off?

Most likely he tweeted some lies out after he read some fake news from Breitbart.

I keep hearing the left say that. Trump has yet to clarify. We shall see.

PCGyver says

ow many BUSINESS days does he get?

In the court of public opinion, none.

PCGyver says

What proof is there that he wasn't lying?

There is plenty of proof of taps on conversations from Trump Towers.

CBOEtrader says

There is plenty of proof of taps on conversations from Trump Towers.

No, there isn't.

And this is quantifiable how..?