patrick.net

Anyone found rational on patnet will be permanently banned.

Rew says

What is clear though is the administration continues to lie about what has been happening.

Please enlighten us about how this is "clear". It has become clear that the last administration was lying about unmasking, spying, economically pressuring political adversaries via the IRS.

Again, ill bet you that one of lynch/rice/hillary are indicted before trump.

You game?

Quigley says

If you're speaking of yourself, more proof is needed that you're "rational."

There is no current fact I've seen that a Trumpista cannot willfully disregard if it endangers the golden one.

Rew says

Quigley says

If you're speaking of yourself, more proof is needed that you're "rational."

There is no current fact I've seen that a Trumpista cannot willfully disregard if it endangers the golden one.

Which fact? So far you are expecting facts to emerge w none so far emerging.

CBOEtrader says

Please enlighten us about how this is "clear".

Flynn: Met with Russians, lied about.
Page: Met with Russians, lied about.
Sessions: Met with Russians, lied about.
Kushner: Met with Russians, lied about.
Donald Trump Jr: Met with Russians, lied about.

And we are just getting started.

CBOEtrader says

Again, ill bet you that one of lynch/rice/hillary are indicted before trump.

You game?

You think that type of partisanship matters to me? Again, I could care less. Get all corruption within the government where it may be found.

The difference is, you use others wrong doings to absolve clear wrong doings now, because it suits your political leanings. Hillary/Lynch/Rice are very inconsequential to us right now.

Rew says

The difference is, you use others wrong doings to absolve clear wrong doings now, because it suits your political leanings.

Bzzzzt! Wrong. You are making shit up, including but not limited to the fake trump/russia collusion story.

Rew says

CBOEtrader says

Please enlighten us about how this is "clear".

Flynn: Met with Russians, lied about.

Page: Met with Russians, lied about.

Sessions: Met with Russians, lied about.

Kushner: Met with Russians, lied about.

Donald Trump Jr: Met with Russians, lied about.

And we are just getting started.

These are all wrong, w the possible exception of Flynn who was quickly fired.

CBOEtrader says

Bzzzzt! Wrong. You are making shit up

Stop deflecting by saying other sins absolve these.

CBOEtrader says

These are all wrong ...

Flynn: a newly registered foreign agent and now asking for immunity. We both agree. Bad ju-ju.
Page: No no ... ohhh yes, I met with Russians.
Sessions: SF86 trouble, whoops! Any search will find it.
Kushner: How many revisions of his SF86 are there now? Any search will find this.
Trump Jr: You just need to read any current NYT article here. He has lied essentially twice, once in under 24 hours.

The only person here who may be hard for you to realize has lied about their dealings with Russian agents is Carter Page. I've provided a link. The others, I've simply provided and additional explanatory phrase. You can hunt it out yourself.

Edit: Also, just have to say, Manafort - no lies yet, just straight up strong Russian counter intel agent work done in past. He is in the room with Natalia, Jared, DT Jr ... also.

CBOEtrader says

Flynn who was quickly fired.

Hehehe. You should check your 'quickly' as that is some interesting 'narrative'.

:-O Hahahahaa. That's a good troll by wikileaks. Niiiiiiiiice.

Rew says

CBOEtrader says

Bzzzzt! Wrong. You are making shit up

Stop deflecting by saying other sins absolve these.

CBOEtrader says

These are all wrong ...

Flynn: a newly registered foreign agent and now asking for immunity. We both agree. Bad ju-ju.

Page: No no ... ohhh yes, I met with Russians.

Sessions: SF86 trouble, whoops! Any search will find it.

Kushner: How many revisions of his SF86 are there now? Any search will find this.

Trump Jr: You just need to read any current NYT article here. He has lied essentially twice, once in under 24 hours.

The only person here who may be hard for you to realize has lied about their dealings with Russi...

These are people who have thousands of meetings a year. It is perfectly normal to revise disclosures. Do a simple Google search and find out how many politicians revise. Zero nefarious or even interesting about that. The sessions situation is probably the most laughably silly. To suggest he "lied" is an insane stretch of basic logic.

The fake narrative that the crazy right holds up as a straw man is dead. The investigation lives on. The circumstantial pile of evidence just keeps growing.

YesYNot says

The circumstantial pile of evidence just keeps growing.

There isnt even circumstantial evidence. OMG Trump Jr met w a lawyer who is from russia???!!!!! OMG, Putin is the president of russia????!!!!!

This isn't circumstantial evidence. This is the left gone crazy.

YesYNot says

The fake narrative that the crazy right holds up as a straw man is dead. The investigation lives on. The circumstantial pile of evidence just keeps growing.

The investigation into Hangar 18 and Bigfoot still goes on.

CBOEtrader says

These are people who have thousands of meetings a year.

Jr. and Kushner had cause to meet with Russian diplomats and lawyers prior to this? About policy? They were merely confused? Do you want to instead try that the SF-86 is just some typical legalese one must sign?

Flynn and Manafort were confused? They have both been, or currently are, foreign agents.

Sessions: http://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/did-sessions-lie/ ... Legally, too weak to get on perjury. Is that your moral compass now for if someone is lying? A strong enough case cannot be made, so, nope, not lying. It was a pretty serious omission, but we must extend the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, Sessions looks too guilty by association to clearly extend that for most.

CBOEtrader says

This isn't circumstantial evidence. This is the left gone crazy.

What do investigators do with circumstantial evidence?
A) throw it out as not of interest
B) follow up and see where things lead

The more the right waves their hands, saying nothing to see here, the more the left is going to want to see what "isn't" there. This is mostly self inflicted by the Trump administration. Come forward. Disclose. Be honest and compliant.

And "the deep state" is the thing that is corrupt? Oh tell me more!

The issue is far far beyond "who won". The issue has everything to do with caving to Russian interest, stepping down from being the world leader, and nothing short of the destruction of the Western lead world for the past 70+ years.

We tear ourselves apart and Russia loves it!

Darkness is Trump's only hope now. Hide!

I actually hope the MSM continues to focus on Russia. It's helped the GOP immensely in special elections (4-0).

While the Democrat MSM concentrates on fantasy spy novels, 8 months in, they aren't talking about any policies; health care, jobs, immigration... nary a word from any major DNC heads about how they would improve any of those things.

It'll show in 2018, and 2020 just like it has showed in the special elections this year.

Rew says

What do investigators do with circumstantial evidence?

A) throw it out as not of interest

B) follow up and see where things lead

There has to be a minimal level of evidence to justify an investigation.

This witch-hunt is destroying the left, politically. Keep at it, i suppose, but the rational world is moving further away from your team by the day.

I actually hope the MSM continues to focus on Russia. It's helped the GOP immensely in special elections (4-0).

-------------

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

Rew says

Legally, too weak to get on perjury.

No. Sessions didnt lie. His meeting w that russian embassador was a publicly disclosed (to the entire world) routine meeting. Sessions said he never met with the Russians as a representative of the Trump campaign. It is a purely factual statement. Only a witch-hunting mob would suggest he lied. Witch-hunting mob= you.

errc says

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

The behavior of this current crop of democrats is the most dangerous Ive ever seen in US politics. For the sake of our country, I want to see them crushed and to see their ashes scattered to the wind.

errc says

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

Because I want the DNC to be better. Anyone who thinks the current incarnation of the DNC is helpful to this nation is just helping Republicans anyway.

I believe the the current leftist/progressive movement has perverted the current Democratic party that I was once part of. You know, the Democrat party where not everything was identity politics. The GOP used to be the dickheads back in the 1990s. Now the DNC are the major identity politics playing dickheads.

- Christianity is bad. Islam is good (despite the gay hate, woman hate, and basically anything "not Islam" hate.
- Feminism
- BLM and "Black people can't be racist because they don't have the power to enforce racism"
- Stealing/Redistributing other people's money to throw at the poor is a good thing.
- The reason black people can't succeed is "systemic racism", not the fact that they have the highest single parent family rate out of all minority groups in the U.S.

I could go on and on.

The faster the DNC is purged and destroyed, the better for the country, and politics in general. A new DNC that is less identity politics based and more solutions based is better for us all.

Identity politics is poison.

"I actually hope the MSM continues to focus on Russia. It's helped the GOP immensely in special elections (4-0)."

lol--and I hope you actually believe this. The average of those special elections shows a Republican loss of ~14% vs. previous elections

CBOEtrader says

errc says

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

The behavior of this current crop of democrats is the most dangerous Ive ever seen in US politics. For the sake of our country, I want to see them crushed and to see their ashes scattered to the wind.

You ever worry that you are focusing on the distractions, and missing out on reality?

Democrats are powerless. Republicans have complete and absolute control of the government. Just like it's been for most of my lifetime. I suggest paying attention to what Republicans are doing, and thoroughly scrutinize their actions. Who gives a shit about the democrats, they are powerless

CBOEtrader says

No. Sessions didnt lie. His meeting w that russian embassador was a publicly disclosed (to the entire world) routine meeting.

But he failed to claim it? That was monumentally dumb then wasn't it!

CBOEtrader says

The behavior of this current crop of democrats is the most dangerous Ive ever seen in US politics. For the sake of our country, I want to see them crushed and to see their ashes scattered to the wind.

How on earth is the Democratic arm of anything the most dangerous right now? The opposition is very difficult to muster at all. They have very marginal power, if any at all, right now.

1) Trump's popularity does not justify his actions.
2a) The total spent on the Georgia race was 60 million, so I don't know where this 'billions' comes from outside of someone's ass.
2a) Ossoff outspent Handel be 5:1, because tons of people gave him money, but outside groups on Handel's side outspent him 2.5:1. In other words, rich fuckers swooped in and bought Handel adds without contributing to her campaign directly (that would be illegal). In other words, Citizen's United saved the day for Handel.
https://www.issueone.org/money-behind-expensive-u-s-house-race-history/
3) Reps beat Dems in 4 elections, but those were to replace a Rep who left office. So, those are Republican districts that the Dem's are trying to turn. Wait until the Republicans have another year of failure under their belts before getting too complacent.

CBOEtrader says

The Russia Narrative is officially dead

Nah. Wishful thinking. This thing will never end. They will keep it going forever. They will find more and more anecdotes, find the secret email servers, and the copies of the emails on some pervert's laptop.

YesYNot says

Wait until the Republicans have another year of failure under their belts before getting too complacent.

Are you kidding?

Bloomberg has reported another consecutive month of jobs expectations beating projections, labor participation rate is up by 0.3% since Trump took office, and the stock market has made many of us much richer.

Remember the "market crash" leftist like Mark Cuban were predicting if Trump were elected? Never fucking happened.

People care about putting food on the table, and paying their bills. They are now better off than they were before Trump took office. People are remembering this at the polls, and will in 2018.

Tim Aurora says

I cannot fathom any ideology supporting Trump

Have you seen Western Europe lately?

There is one party that would bring about the end of Western Civilization in North America, and it's not the GOP.

My favorite is how fast Trump became a dangerous person when he left the establishment fix-no-problem reservation.

How did all those media companies carry this dangerous anti woman, racist, sexist, violent, etc person all those years?

Goran_K says

There is one party that would bring about the end of Western Civilization in North America, and it's not the GOP.

OMG! We are all gonna die!!!!!!!

Also, note, this thread now on anti-Islam/terrorism threat as a justification for Trump (Russia/Authoritarianism).

A scared population will give up rights in the face of the promise of security. Anyone remember post 9-11?

Rew says

anti-Islam/terrorism threat as a justification for Trump (Russia/Authoritarianism).

Not true at all. The connection was a few TDS comments and people wondering how Democrats could lose. It has nothing to do with justifying authoritarianism, and we don't have that anyway. To the extent a risk of authoritarianism exists, your preference for Pence would increase it:

Rew says

Anyone remember post 9-11?

Yes, that's one reason why I keep asking you about Bush 43, but you never answer:

curious2 says

curious2 says

Rew says

Gladly. Pence....

@Rew, how do you believe Pence would compare to Bush 43? On what evidence do you base that opinion? Do you consider Bush 43 a successful Presidency?

@Rew, I had intended that as a serious question. You haven't replied at all, while posting a dozen other comments in the three days since. I am honestly trying to understand why you would "gladly" welcome someone who seems by every measure worse than W. Did you support W, and his war in Iraq? Do you believe that worked out well?

Bush 43 was a completely failed presidency. I'll take Pence not because he is a change in foreign national policy. Very few candidates actually have enough knowledge to stand up to current Military leadership and set new courses. Further, Bush administration straight up manipulated the US population into a war which has perpetuated and grown terrorism, not defeated it.

I support Pence taking the reigns from Trump because he actually would follow more democratic norms. He has an absolute crap social agenda I hate as well.

In short, Pence would actually let America get some needed work and improvements done. Trump is just failure, division, and corruption. It' a low low bar, but the best I can hope for in under 4 years.

curious2 says

and we don't have that anyway.

It's a death by paper cuts and increments. It is happening.

Rew says

Trump....

has a long record of success in multiple fields where others have failed. He persevered through incredible opposition to win the Presidency. We don't know yet how he'll do.

Pence has a much worse record.

Rew says

It is happening.

No, TDS is happening. Most of the 'threats' against Jewish community centers were phoned in by a Jewish teen, and others by an anti-Trump communist, and a Jewish guy painted a swastika on his own house and then reported to police that his house had been vandalized. False flags, fake news, a 'mostly BS witch-hunt' on CNN and Maddow boosts ratings by stoking TDS, these things are happening; authoritarianism isn't.

The President might be a lightning rod, but Pence would be a disaster.

curious2 says

has a long record of success in multiple fields where others have failed.

He has a long track record of making people believe this. He is a showman. He is flash not substance. His success is phantom, bluster, and bully. He is not self made.

curious2 says

but Pence would be a disaster.

Debatable. He is raising funds now. He is unmarred by scandal, quiet, face in pictures but never smeared. He is in the exact right place to take things. Deftly maneuvered around the nose cone touch with humor. True politician that knows what he is doing.

How would he be a disaster? By what measures would he be worse than Trump?