patrick.net

rando says

Which is "is proportionally more in line with the actual threat" as you yourself put it. The very tiny group of white supremacists is a far smaller threat to democracy than the MSM.

Wrong. Media talks. They just killed someone and injured a good score or two. They've also bombed (or attempted to) two sites in the past 15 days.

rando says

The MSM has been willfully distorting pretty much everything about Trump to suit their extremely partisan agenda.

34% and falling. The majority speaks. Trump is way way outside typical norms. Partisanship is the only thing keeping him in office.

WookieMan says

I don't know if this was the point, but what politician is to be believed then? Isn't that kind of their MO? Lie to keep their jobs and power? I don't know, seems like it's all they do, so why the perceived SURPRISE! when Trump does it?

rando says

Because they "are so partisan as to be not rational in thought at all" as Rew nicely put it.

When he tweets, talks to the press pool on AF1, or talks openly at the mic ... he is Trump. When he reads from a canned set of talking points he is not saying anything genuine. Remember, he was voted in for his plain talking zero PC brashness.

So where is it? It should be as natural as breathing to shout down some Nazis. Why didn't he?

Rew says

Trump is way way outside typical norms.

Trump is definitely way outside what our owners want us to have as representation.

Our owners are very upset, and instructing the media to throw everything they have at Trump.
Rew says

It should be as natural as breathing to shout down some Nazis.

No, even Nazis have a right to speak. When you shout down anyone, you throw away the right to speak for yourself as well. You should be ashamed for even suggesting that anyone shout down and not listen to anyone else.

Rew says

Wrong. Media talks. They just killed someone and injured a good score or two. They've also bombed (or attempted to) two sites in the past 15 days.

No, the media talks about a very select and limited set of people hated by the left. They do not talk about events caused by Muslims nearly as much or as long. They are hypocritcal.

rando says

Our owners are very upset, and instructing the media to throw everything they have at Trump.

Oh, we have owners now? Who are they?

rando says

No, even Nazis have a right to speak. When you shout down anyone, you throw away the right to speak for yourself as well. You should be ashamed for even suggesting that anyone shout down and not listen to anyone else.

Free speech has limits, especially free speech directly against the core founding of the country. If the speech wants to be done in a constructive manner, in the spirit of debate, against equals who agree in order to further the best ideas, I am all for it.

Speech that is forced upon a community at gunpoint, doesn't look like the type of free speech America needs to defend. That's oppression.

rando says

No, the media talks about a very select and limited set of people hated by the left. They do not talk about events caused by Muslims nearly as much or as long. They are hypocritcal.

Just because the media is catering to 70% of the nation that generally agrees, doesn't mean you should not have your 30% alternative outlets, which you do. No one if forcing you to listen.

Rew says

Oh, we have owners now? Who are they?

www.youtube.com/embed/acLW1vFO-2Q

Rew says

Free speech has limits, especially free speech directly against the core founding of the country.

Actually, no, except for advocating violence. This country was founded via free speecch directly against the mother country, England.

Rew says

Speech that is forced upon a community at gunpoint, doesn't look like the type of free speech America needs to defend.

Where did you see such speech, forced at gunpoint?

Rew says

the media is catering to 70% of the nation

Clearly not. They lied about Trump's chances and then about his platform from start to finish. Thank God democracy prevailed over the media - this time.

rando says

Actually, no, except for advocating violence. This country was founded via free speecch directly against the mother country, England.

Of which a core premise is what? The immortal declaration.
Yes, you can challenge it. But again, via hate symbols, weapons, and arms ... that's almost an attack on the state itself, which is why the DOJ is now involved. You can bet the FBI just took all the names and info it could off this event. Get 'em!

rando says

Where did you see such speech, forced at gunpoint?

By the militias supporting the white supremacists. Did you miss them? Full tactical gear, typically out of shape, and assault rifles. Organized enough that they were in platoons and even had medics.

rando says

They lied about Trump's chances and then about his platform from start to finish. Thank God democracy prevailed over the media - this time.

;)

They didn't lie. His win was within the margin of error. Every other country, the popular vote, is the vote. Maybe time for a change, right? Lord knows states rights only seems to be convenient when it is with the right.

Minority hate groups propping up an authoritarian a-hole isn't my idea of what this country is about. His reign will be over soon enough and then we likely get to see "the victimized white people" come out with their guns. They will protest our democracy protecting itself from this vileness and actually working. This hate trying to tear things down will not succeed.

I heard no "owners" named from Carlin. That's just an anti-government stance in general.

I would assume Trump, Bannon, and Miller would be "owners" correct? :)

America isn't going backward. It will go forward.

If the concentrated-ownership media (Slim, Bezos, etc.) are uniformly attacking somebody it's because the ruling class doesn't like them. It's really that simple.

Do you know what countries lacked a protective tariff? Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, etc. That's why they're so poor. The wealthy in that country wanted to export raw materials tariff-free, and get the latest Eurogoods without tariff. Thus, no middle class, no industry, until the US gave up the tariff and outsourced all it's manufacturing there, and even now the social and economic inequity is still horrible.

The ownership class is almost uniform on opposition to reasonable, all-American (most of our history) tariffs. "Moderate" Tariffs used to be considered 25-35%.

Terry McAuliffe, Warner, Pelosi, the Clintons all hate the Tariff. As do McConnell, Ryan, and McCain, etc. They're the ruling class, now entirely financial (not even IT Guys, only a tiny fraction of the top .1%)

It's pretty clear from campaign contribution sources and amounts who didn't want Trump to win.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

It's pretty clear from campaign contribution sources and amounts who didn't want Trump to win.

I'm pro-deep state establishment right now. Yes. Bannon is in trouble. Kelly and McMasters are circling. Tariffs have nothing to do with my vote/leanings. Trump's ideology and reactionary backward looking policies are.

Also, you cannot impose tariffs and do nothing else. You would then need to subsidize manufacturing in the US if you really want it to come back. Even then the US would never have the competitive edge China has right now. Why? The supply lines push all the raw materials right to China. They prototype in days what takes weeks or more in the US.

Also, the US doesn't want those jobs! Not in the same scale and scope. They are dirty, typically low skill, and able to be automated away. It's good honest work, but if I'm gearing an economy, you but I'd push for banking and white collar positions more than blue collar production work.

Tell me the Trump timeline on helping his voters economic situation: What's he done so far? Any education programs? Infrastructure bill? What?

Trump's an empty shirt, a demagogue, and antithetical to American ideals. That's why I didn't vote for him.

Fuck that. Change the narrative to this and watch the bitches flee: What should a crowd of assholes expect when they surround a car, yell at the driver, and hit the car with rocks, sticks, and other objects? Did they expect him to stay still for his lynching, to not panic or rebuke? The fact is simple: the police failed to disperse an unlawful assembly, and can even be shown to have provoked the violence. My side no longer cares what the fake news narrative-du-jour is; we already know it is biased against us regardless.

steverbeaver says

What should a crowd of assholes expect when they surround a car, yell at the driver, and hit the car with rocks, sticks, and other objects?

Car wasn't surrounded. Driver wasn't yelled at. Sticks/rocks came after the assault with the vehicle itself. Total BS. There was only one car that rammed people that day.

steverbeaver says

The fact is simple: the police failed to disperse an unlawful assembly

Do you know what stage the demonstrations were at, at this time? There was a single side left on the street at this time, in slow victory marches to home or toward center to rally. The white supremacists were gone ... disband by the police already. That side had gone to their cars. They failed to be able to carry out their agenda for the day and had to go home early.

The sidewalks are moving up the street/hill, facing the oncoming car. All the people hit had no clue what happened as the people walking down the street, with the flow of traffic and the other two cars, were hit form behind as they walked in the road downward.

Here is the furthest up street video at earliest record point I can find. He starts clipping a few people at the top and people react. Watch.
www.youtube.com/embed/-8Koen-jR28

Here are 10 other cars in amongst the large glom of foot traffic. They didn't run anyone over. Even after being struck and screaming all around them ... the two vehicles which prevented bigger loss of life ... didn't budge. You think the driver of the Dodge was able to see those other cars that far down the street with the amount of people between him and the cars? (take a look at first video again)
www.youtube.com/embed/SQ-s3U38SpE

Finally ... this is about the best interlaced footage I can find from the angles shot.
www.youtube.com/embed/gAt-wK0o0Nc

Notice the car is clean and in good condition, except for front collision damage, until a few bats hit at the end. That car wasn't under attack, it was the attacker!

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Increasing numbers of nannies and housekeepers is a negative, not positive, indicator of a country's economy.

Two biggest factors in happiness for modern day couples: eating out and house keepers. :)

Will Rolling Stone have him on the Cover?

BTW, somewhat off-topic, did y'all hear about the Elder Tsarnaev brother's murder victims, prior to the bombing?

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Will Rolling Stone have him on the Cover?

This a real cover? Don't pay attention to RS at all. If so that's not cool. And I get it, every magazine cover at its core is clickbait. RS did a distasteful cover if that's legit.

Yup all you showed was the muscle car moved again after being hit. And in another a van is shown. And like I said, it could have been recourse for being hit. Not all will sit there and take it... would you?

steverbeaver says

Not all will sit there and take it... would you?

Let me get this straight ... you think the driver was justified in killing a person and injuring 19 others, because his car was hit? Wow. Glad the DOJ won't. This guy is toast!

steverbeaver says

Yup all you showed was the muscle car moved again after being hit.

You need to watch the opening of first video. That's him coming down the street and beginning to clip people.

Oh hell yeah TwoScoops I want this driver on Rolling Stone now, at least for muh diversity.

I love it.

REW's number of post about London truck attack done by Muslim: 2

REW's number of post about possibly alt-right car attack: 68

Talk about biased and fake outrage.

The thing about selective editing is its just that. And if your life is in danger you will suspend those principals of yours and if you say otherwise you are a liar. I didn't condone any of this hate and violence. Be polite in the public space and don't force association is my rule. It's sad really because this is all about nothing. But there are machines that have programmed fervent opinion on both sides (imo the left moreso) to the point that facts don't matter so much any more... would you say that is an accurate observation?

Now, I know Rew means well. Like I said there is some mass programming gone on that is deep. Xer's been trained a certain way. I know a circle of leftists... very much group-think leading to virtue-signaling and witty remarks as social currency. It's a pattern I've observed. Maybe I'm inaccurate, but it is a pattern I have noticed. Most leftists I see mean well, but the outcome record is absolute, fucking shit. Their outlook is not realistic.

Goran_K says

Talk about biased and fake outrage.

I care much more deeply about right-wing terror in my own backyard. Yes. Biased? Yep!
FBI is aligned that way. Sorry!

Goran_K says

Talk about biased and fake outrage.

Also by that standard ... I assume your outrage is just around the corner then? ;)

Goran_K says

possibly alt-right car attack:

The alt-right is just 'white supremacist' now.

Here is James with his fasci laden shield.

There are now reports of multiple weapons caches around the town that were staged, and there appear to be white supremacists drawing firearms against people ... felonies:

There is an online campaign to find this guy right now.

Goran_K says

REW's number of post about London truck attack done my Muslim: 2

REW's number of post about possibly alt-right car attack: 68

Talk about biased

Trump's outrage o meter after London = 11.
Trump's outrage o meter after Charlottesville = 2.

Love it .

rando says

Rew says

... as he has much more grievance and disdain for the media, than he will ever show for white supremacists.

Which is "is proportionally more in line with the actual threat" as you yourself put it. The very tiny group of white supremacists is a far smaller threat to democracy than the MSM.

The MSM has been willfully distorting pretty much everything about Trump to suit their extremely partisan agenda.

One day maybe we will have objective journalism in America again, but we sure do not have it now.

When do you believe this started? Just this past year with the election of Trump?

Did you go through this century watching the news thinking "my I'm so informed what with all this pure, good information on the news!" Up until 2016 where magically they flipped a switch, and started working against you and Trump, preventing Making America Great Again?

The same news outlets owned by a few Oligarchs, were on your side through Bush and Obama, but now they're trying to trick you?

When you shout down anyone, you throw away the right to speak for yourself as well. You should be ashamed for even suggesting that anyone shout down and not listen to anyone else.

-------------

Do you listen to what they have to say? I have and it has less than zero value. They have nothing to say, but if you listen to them, they are inciting violence and looking for a fight.

They do not talk about events caused by Muslims nearly as much or as long. They are hypocritcal.

----------

Not sure what news you are watching, whenever a Muslin carries out an attack, it's the only news on tv 24/7 for days. I know you guys are pining for more Domestic attacks to prove your narrative, but the reality is, they are pretty rare

steverbeaver says

The thing about selective editing is its just that. And if your life is in danger you will suspend those principals of yours and if you say otherwise you are a liar. I didn't condone any of this hate and violence. Be polite in the public space and don't force association is my rule. It's sad really because this is all about nothing. But there are machines that have programmed fervent opinion on both sides (imo the left moreso) to the point that facts don't matter so much any more... would you say that is an accurate observation?

I'd say it's not accurate at all. The left moreso? Then why is the left so fractured with differing ideas and opinions, while the right is all marching lockstep to the same message of anger, fear, and hate? They claim that their speech and ideas are being censored, but I'd make the largest wager of my life, that they don't have any ideas or anything to say! That's why they're confusion is playing out as anger and violence

https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

steverbeaver says

Most leftists I see mean well, but the outcome record is absolute, fucking shit. Their outlook is not realistic.

I'm sorry, I didn't catch where you talk about the outcome record of the right. Like the greatest debt increase in history, 241 marines killed in Lebanon, S&L crisis, iran contra, 9/11, 2 unnecessary wars we are still fighting, the worst financial crash in 90 years, the greatest income inequity in 100 years, the brownbeck disaster in kansas. Like you said the outcome record is absolute fucking shit. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

errc says

Muslin carries out an attack, it's the only news on tv 24/7 for days.

That is true, but context is very different. If Islamists attack, media first try to hide that Muslims attacked, and then the description goes to "lone wolf", "not all Muslims" etc. If right-wingers attack, they are crucified instantly and it is all right-wingers, Trump is personally responsible for attack etc.

Should be the same in both cases.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

The Mayor of Charlottesville declared the city a Center of Resistance back in February.

Again, the only people removing statues right now are ISIS and Politicians who identify with "The Resistance".

The original American Resistance led to this nations birth. What do you have against people resisting the fascist creep from the Oligarchy?

And what do you label the opposition? All the beta Trumpcucks that prefer to lay on their stomachs and get pegged by the Oligarchs?

drBu says

errc says

Muslin carries out an attack, it's the only news on tv 24/7 for days.

That is true, but context is very different. If Islamists attack, media first try to hide that Muslims attacked, and then the description goes to "lone wolf", "not all Muslims" etc. If right-wingers attack, they are crucified instantly and it is all right-wingers, Trump is personally responsible for attack etc.

Should be the same in both cases.

It's quite apparent to those of us watching from the sidelines, that the reaction is identical from "the other side ", when the shoe is on the other foot.

I'm probably unqualified to say, as I don't watch any corporate "Entertainment 'News'"

If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.

errc says

If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.

Something that I can agree 100% with.

errc says

It's quite apparent to those of us watching from the sidelines, that the reaction is identical from "the other side ", when the shoe is on the other foot.

Yes. Right will say that "the KKK lunatics are paid for by Soros", while left will say "not all Muslims" and cancel appearances of Dawkins because he is consistent and honest.

errc says

Not sure what news you are watching, whenever a Muslin carries out an attack, it's the only news on tv 24/7 for days. I know you guys are pining for more Domestic attacks to prove your narrative, but the reality is, they are pretty rare

And I know the left is pining for more truly far right attacks, but they are much more rare than Muslim attacks.

errc says

When do you believe this started? Just this past year with the election of Trump?

Did you go through this century watching the news thinking "my I'm so informed what with all this pure, good information on the news!" Up until 2016 where magically they flipped a switch, and started working against you and Trump, preventing Making America Great Again?

The same news outlets owned by a few Oligarchs, were on your side through Bush and Obama, but now they're trying to trick you?

Journalism has been going downhill for a long time now (Thanks, Google!) but it absolutely fell off a cliff when Trump got elected.

It's like they were at least pretending to be objective before, but since the election, all pretense has been dropped. The press is the anti-Trump hate machine now, and little else.

YesYNot says

Trump's outrage o meter after London = 11.

Trump's outrage o meter after Charlottesville = 2.

Love it .

You're ignoring context.

London was yet another Muslim attack on random innocent people going about their daily lives.

Charlottesville was a very rare far-right attack on an angry mob of leftists armed with baseball bats looking for a fight.

steverbeaver says

The thing about selective editing is its just that. And if your life is in danger you will suspend those principals of yours and if you say otherwise you are a liar. I didn't condone any of this hate and violence. Be polite in the public space and don't force association is my rule. It's sad really because this is all about nothing. But there are machines that have programmed fervent opinion on both sides (imo the left moreso) to the point that facts don't matter so much any more... would you say that is an accurate observation?

Thanks, a good civil post talking about reality.

Civility is the first thing, and it was sorely lacking in Charlottesville.