patrick.net

Looks like the shooter had an hour and ten minutes without any armed resistance (2:40 to 3:50):

https://www.news4jax.com/news/timeline-how-the-school-shooting-in-south-florida-unfolded

You can't prevent wacko kids from getting guns. If they are determined, they will get them.

What you can do is make their shooting spree damn short. We could learn a lot from the Israelis about this kind of thing.

Patrick says

What you can do is make their shooting spree damn short. We could learn a lot from the Israelis about this kind of thing.

Swiss would be better.

Patrick says

If they go into it knowing they are going to be splattered within 30 seconds, the proposition is not nearly as attractive.

Urban cover, high capacity mag, target rich environment. 30 seconds? Psssshhhh.

Even if every teacher is an armed bad ass a "wacko kid" who gets access to a firearm can wipe out a classroom. That's typically 30 people, not 17. Is that death toll a good price for no gun regulation? (That's regardless all the credible studies saying that the "armed heroic defense" is pretty much a myth.)

Unless we are talking making every school as secure as a prison the "more guns" solution is just bullshit.

That's regardless all the credible studies saying that the "armed heroic defense" is pretty much a myth.)

Do we really need a study? If the Armed Defenders were ever going to do anything, wouldn’t it have happened at least once by now?

All this gun shit has happened right alongside the militarization of police and the criminalization of the populace. More of the same will net us more of the same results

Patrick says

Looks like the shooter had an hour and ten minutes without any armed resistance (2:40 to 3:50):

https://www.news4jax.com/news/timeline-how-the-school-shooting-in-south-florida-unfolded

You can't prevent wacko kids from getting guns. If they are determined, they will get them.

What you can do is make their shooting spree damn short. We could learn a lot from the Israelis about this kind of thing.

That's true, there are plenty of incidents where armed citizens prevented mass shootings (question is by how much will any measure tip the numbers significantly if at all). The reality is that gun control will likely change nothing wrt the numbers (as you can get a gun everywhere like you can get drugs everywhere) but I also agree that you'd need much more security in schools to make them secure then. I'd focus on SSRIs, better cross-work of LEOs and schools etc. and much more security in the short-term. Maybe also overhaul checks on obtaining permits, esp. for semis.

jazz_music says

NO MASSACRE IN 30 YEARS HAS EVER BEEN PREVENTED BY ARMED CIVILIANS so cut the bullshit on arming everybody everywhere

So miss-aligned and wrong:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen/

anon_20a16 says

Urban cover, high capacity mag, target rich environment. 30 seconds? Psssshhhh.

Even if every teacher is an armed bad ass a "wacko kid" who gets access to a firearm can wipe out a classroom. That's typically 30 people, not 17. Is that death toll a good price for no gun regulation?

Such a failed narrative.

First, if one of these deranged shooters knew multiple teachers were CCW, or there were undercover LEOs, they won't go there.

Case in point, how many mass shootings have there been at police stations or gun ranges?

Patrick says

You can't prevent wacko kids from getting guns. If they are determined, they will get them.

What you can do is make their shooting spree damn short. We could learn a lot from the Israelis about this kind of thing.

Not really. How many armed guards were in the Las Vegas hotel?

How can you be sure that the shooter wouldn't make the armed guard his first victim?

mell says

The reality is that gun control will likely change nothing wrt the numbers (as you can get a gun everywhere like you can get drugs everywhere)

That's a problem gun control can address as well. Without the probability of sales, manufacturers would stop producing so many guns.

Patrick says

If they go into it knowing they are going to be splattered within 30 seconds, the proposition is not nearly as attractive.

Perfect.

That's why most mass shootings take place at schools, shopping malls and theaters. The shooters know there won't be any resistance.

errc says

That's regardless all the credible studies saying that the "armed heroic defense" is pretty much a myth.)

A myth?

anon_c9d2b says

https://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen/

Please read.

The problem is, you won't hear about these situations on your favorite Liberal MSM channel. It goes against their narrative!

The following article claims that mass killings/shootings is a side effect of handing out anti-depressant drugs (SSRI drugs) like candy to everyone that says they are depressed or unhappy. This includes Prozac, Paxil and similar drugs. I wonder if there might be some truth to that claim.

Come to think of it, is it possible that many current societal ills are caused by anti-depressant medications? People, young and old, are dissatisfied with their lives. They take antidepressants to feel better, but does the medication also make many of them completely uncritical of themselves and their own actions? I could see this could lead to blaming everyone else for what is wrong, and then lead to rage and mass murder. It may also have the (milder) effect of people having a very high opinion of themselves and treat other people with little regard. Sort of a sociopathic effect caused by anti-depressants. And it does not just apply to men, in fact from what I see women have never been less critical of themselves than in current society.

How common is it to take anti-depressants? I personally know only one person that will admit to it, and he said he has since gotten off the meds but that it was difficult to quit. That's all the details I know. He seemed a bit hyper in 2016 -2017, but not sociopathic. He has always been a very decent man.

Here is the article:

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232986

anon_8f378 says

The majority of these guys kill themselves before they get caught. What makes you think potential "deadly force" is a deterrent to them?

Should reduce the casualty count.

anon_8f378 says

mell says

The reality is that gun control will likely change nothing wrt the numbers (as you can get a gun everywhere like you can get drugs everywhere)

That's a problem gun control can address as well. Without the probability of sales, manufacturers would stop producing so many guns.

... and this is exactly what happened with drugs: since cocaine, morphine, meth, heroine, etc. have been outlawed nobody is manufacturing them anymore.... wait, what?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The Lesson From Today's School Shooting

Arm your kids, cuz the school administration isn't doing shit to stop these shooters.

justme says

Come to think of it, is it possible that many current societal ills are caused by anti-depressant medications? People, young and old, are dissatisfied with their lives. They take antidepressants to feel better, but does the medication also make many of them completely uncritical of themselves and their own actions? I could see this could lead to blaming everyone else for what is wrong, and then lead to rage and mass murder. It may also have the (milder) effect of people having a very high opinion of themselves and treat other people with little regard. Sort of a sociopathic effect caused by anti-depressants. And it does not just apply to men, in fact from what I see women have never been less critical of themselves than in current society.

How common is it to take anti-depressants? I personally know only one person that will admit to it, and he said he has since gotten off the meds but that it was difficult to quit. That's all the details I know. He seemed a bit hyper in 2016 -2...

This is already proven, not even a hypothesis anymore. SSRIs are known to cause homocidal and suicidal thoughts, esp. so with younger patients (< 25). If you know any of your friends taking them you can see that they initially take away the edge when heavily medicated but in the process cause heavy imbalances and eventually they lose their effectiveness and increase the condition, leading to manic depressive, homocidal and suicidal behavior. Yes you can observer that effect in women as well - while by nature less deadly - equally verbally and physically violent. Many of them do take these and they also make a good excuse for their shortcomings. If you have affected friends do not let them take SSRIs or let them get addicted to them.

justme says

How common is it to take anti-depressants?

One in 6 Americans Take Antidepressants, Other Psychiatric Drugs.

One in six Americans take some kind of psychiatric drugs — mostly antidepressants, researchers reported Monday.

They also found that twice as many white people take those drugs as do African-Americans or other minorities, and fewer than 5 percent of Asian-Americans do. And most people who take them are taking them long-term, Thomas Moore of the Institute for Safe Medication Practices in Alexandria, Virginia and colleagues found.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/one-6-americans-take-antidepressants-other-psychiatric-drugs-n695141

anon_8f378 says

How many armed guards were in the Las Vegas hotel?

Don't know, please fill us in on the total count?

anon_8f378 says

How can you be sure that the shooter wouldn't make the armed guard his first victim?

Liberal Logic at it's finest.

Yes, as well all know, these deranged shooters are well trained Navy SEALS and know exactly how to hunt down the armed guards.

Patrick says

You can't prevent wacko kids from getting guns. If they are determined, they will get them.

You mean wacko American kids, right? Because I haven't heard of any Czech, Polish, or Swiss kids, for example, doing the same.

Seriously, what is the problem with this country - is it the people, is it the guns, or both? I say it is both.

anon_c9d2b says

anon_c9d2b says

https://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen/

Please read.

The problem is, you won't hear about these situations on your favorite Liberal MSM channel. It goes against their narrative!

Where are all the stories of people mistakenly shooting their families, neighbors, friends, the wrong people, themselves, etc.? You won't read it in american rifleman. It goes against their narrative.

anon_aa28a says

Don't know, please fill us in on the total count?

They come in both armed and unarmed flavor at Mandalay bay. They are unionized. There are many-many of them.

1st casualty of the Vegas mass shooting was ... ding ding ... a guard ...
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/12/us/las-vegas-shooting-investigation-updates/index.html
... and Paddock stopped shooting well before any armed opposition got near his room. He took his own life.

anon_aa28a says

Yes, as well all know, these deranged shooters are well trained Navy SEALS and know exactly how to hunt down the armed guards.

A gun on your hip doesn't block bullets. Mass shooters choose places where people meet in mass not places that are "gun free".

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/10/oregon-shooting-gun-laws-213222 https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/myth-of-the-hero-gunslinger/

Sniper says

Case in point, how many mass shootings have there been at police stations or gun ranges?

Or military bases, and armed forces work places ... OOOoops!

The presence of guns is not deterring anyone from committing shootings.

When the Sheriff's Office has been called 39 times, you've been expelled from the school, you're in an alternative school for high risk kids, you've said you heard voices, the FBI knows about you, kids think you're a serial killer candidate and guess who the shooter was before it was on the news, and the huge campus had instrux not to allow in while wearing backpack...

... and it still happened despite overwhelming notice of past trouble and violence and worse to come...

Blame Guns.

anon_20a16 says

Sniper says

Case in point, how many mass shootings have there been at police stations or gun ranges?

Or military bases, and armed forces work places ... OOOoops!

Oops...in both of those locations, the people that were shot were unarmed.. guns weren't allowed

Those pesky FACTS again.

anon_20a16 says

The presence of guns is not deterring anyone from committing shootings.

That's why those locations you mentioned had shootings, the victims weren't armed....

Next...

anon_aa28a says

Yes, as well all know, these deranged shooters are well trained Navy SEALS and know exactly how to hunt down the armed guards.

You don't need to be a Navy Seal to take out Paul Blart.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

When the Sheriff's Office has been called 39 times, you've been expelled from the school, you're in an alternative school for high risk kids, you've said you heard voices, the FBI knows about you, kids think you're a serial killer candidate and guess who the shooter was before it was on the news, and the huge campus had instrux not to allow in while wearing backpack...

... and it still happened despite overwhelming notice of past trouble and violence and worse to come...

Blame Guns.

Are you suggesting that Americans are fucking morons?

anon_aa28a says

Yes, as well all know, these deranged shooters are well trained Navy SEALS and know exactly how to hunt down the armed guards.

I'm not sure you need to be a Navy Seal to take out Paul Blart.

FP says

Are you suggesting that Americans are fucking morons?

The ones with mental illness are.

The reason we have so many crazies that are running loose is because the ACLU and others sued like crazy in the 70s to free the mentally ill and changed the policies and the laws regarding forcible incarceration; now it's almost impossible to take a Cruz off the Street without them committing a violent crime first.

anon_20a16 says

anon_aa28a says

Don't know, please fill us in on the total count?

They come in both armed and unarmed flavor at Mandalay bay.

Do unarmed guards usually go head to head with gunman?

anon_20a16 says

1st casualty of the Vegas mass shooting was ... ding ding ... a guard ...

It's a good thing he was armed and was able to stop Paddock.

Oh wait, he wasn't armed... so sad.

anon_20a16 says

... and Paddock stopped shooting well before any armed opposition got near his room. He took his own life.

and you know that how? Were you there in the room with him?


anon_20a16 says

. Mass shooters choose places where people meet in mass not places that are "gun free".

Really, so San Bernardino, the Colorado theater, Sandy hook school, Las Vegas, Parkview school, the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Virginia Tech, Sutherland Springs Church, Ft. Hood, Columbine, Charleston Church, etc. all had plenty of people with guns on them when the shooter opened fire?

Please stop with your nonsense.

bob2356 says

Where are all the stories of people mistakenly shooting their families, neighbors, friends, the wrong people, themselves, etc.? You won't read it in american rifleman. It goes against their narrative.

You can find those stories on 16 other Liberal news channels. Need some help finding them?

Dawkins:

"There there, I do understand, taking away your guns is like taking away your Comfort Blanky. You’ll feel bereaved. Tell you what, though. We know how to deal with bereavement. We’ll send you our thoughts and prayers. Then you’ll feel better."

The FBI is incompetent. Warned weeks ago by a tip from somebody who found the kids' videos, looked into it, decided it was a threat, failed to notify local authorities or do any thing else.

Remember the FBI team that was sleeping when the Jihadi they were tracking went to the airport and left the country as they snoozed in their stake-out car?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The FBI is incompetent. Warned weeks ago by a tip from somebody who found the kids' videos, looked into it, decided it was a threat, failed to notify local authorities or do any thing else.

Wow--nothing like politicizing a mass school shooting. Let's make it about the evil FBI! Great idea!

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The FBI is incompetent. Warned weeks ago by a tip from somebody who found the kids' videos, looked into it, decided it was a threat, failed to notify local authorities or do any thing else.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/fbi-failed-to-investigate-tip-on-school-shooter-last-month/

anon_8f378 says

Let's make it about the evil FBI! Great idea!

Yep, that evil FBI

Not following up on a credible threat. How dare we criticize them.

The blood of all those dead people is on the FBI's hands.

"Hello, FBI, there's this crazy kid who is planning to shoot up a school, talking about he's gonna be a professional school shooter!"
"Fuck off, we're still working on trying to find evidence of Trump-Russia Collusion."

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Blame Guns.

Absolutely, specially AR-15's, they should be totally banned.

Let's look at some facts:

There are approximately 5 million AR-15's in the country. Over the last 10 years, they have been used in 10 mass shootings.

So, that averages a AR-15 involved 1 out of 5,000,000 times a year in a mass shooting.

Hmmm, doesn't sound like a epidemic.

Let's look at cars:

There are approximately 268 million cars in the country. 40,000 people die in car accidents each year.

Hmmm, what's killing more people?

Why aren't Dems calling for a ban on cars yet?