patrick.net

The FBI was warned last month that Nikolas Cruz was an armed psycho who might shoot up a school — but it didn’t bother investigating, the agency admitted Friday.

“A person close to” Cruz called the agency’s tipline on Jan. 5 and reported the 19-year-old had a “desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts” and there was “potential of him conducting a school shooting,” the FBI said in a statement.

But the agency said it failed to pass on any of that information to its Miami field office, even thought its own protocols say he “should have been assessed as a potential threat to life.”

A little over a month later, on Wednesday, Cruz allegedly gunned down 17 people at his former high school.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/fbi-failed-to-investigate-tip-on-school-shooter-last-month/

It is a tragic issue. Gun opponents truly mean well, but for some reason don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around a few things.

1. Despite more guns and more people, gun violence and crime in general continue to fall. The fastest growing prison population are actually women.
2. Although guns account for 30,000 deaths each year, a third of them are suicides.
3. Though many people will cite exceptions, societies with relaxed gun laws tend to have lower crime, I am aware of countries like Australia that have seen violent crime fall even with gun control laws. These are cited as causation, but then other statistics like England's homicide rate skyrocketing briefly when guns were banned are ignored.
4. People think societies are safer with gun control. In many countries, especially in post WWII Europe, the populations are mainly mellow people who have basic needs taken care of by the government. They are generally not violent, however Paris is a great example of what happens when it is not just a school shooting, but when an entire city is held hostage because no citizen owns a gun. We will never see something like that here. Even the LA riots proved how armed citizens can protect their own property during civil unrest.
5. This country will never be invaded with private gun ownership. Japan never even considered it because they knew every citizen potentially had a gun.

Having said all that, gun ownership is a right, but it is easily taken away, so it should be viewed as a responsibility. I fully support background checks, which should include mental health notes. People on certain medications should be prohibited from buying guns, and if they own a gun, should be required to turn it in or sell it until a psychiatrist clears them.

I do think it is time to ban people under 21 from purchasing firearms. Like with alcohol restrictions, it seems like teenagers may not possess the maturity to have M16s and other glorified guns like AK47s.

Malcolm says

2. Although guns account for 30,000 deaths each year, a third of them are suicides.

Correction, 2/3rds are suicides.

Malcolm says

I am aware of countries like Australia that have seen violent crime fall even with gun control laws.

Actually, violent crime went up in Australia after the gun ban, people lost the ability to protect themselves.

Malcolm says

People think societies are safer with gun control.

Like Chicago? that has some of the strongest gun control laws?

Malcolm says

I fully support background checks, which should include mental health notes. People on certain medications should be prohibited from buying guns,

That's already covered on the 4473 background check form when you purchase a firearm.

Malcolm says

it seems like teenagers may not possess the maturity to have M16s

Teenagers can't buy M16s, in fact, nobody can without a special federal license.

Malcolm says

other glorified guns like AK47s.

An AK47 isn't a glorified gun, it's just a semi-automatic rifle like every other rifle made today.

It's time to stop watching Hollywood fictional movies.

I hope Republicans keep up their complete ass kissing of the NRA. Common sense gun control is extremely popular and it's pretty easy to imagine the ads that will be run in the midterms showing the stats about school shootings superimposed with Congressmen voting to allow kids and mentally ill patients to own guns.

Dems just took another Republican district in CA last week and are neck and neck in the PA house district that Trump won by 20 pts. These tweets from high school kids asking why 19 yr olds need M-16s, or if Trump will meet with them while he's in Florida are going to keep getting passed along and publicized.

Where is Trump's leadership? What is he doing to stop these shootings??

Australia’s rate fell to a record low. It is slightly lower now at just 1 death per hundred thousand.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-31329220
AK47s and AR15s, wannabe M16s are glorified semi automatic rifles. They are just for looks, but they are glorified. Since people buy them and spend more on them, they are glorified, since a regular rifle would be just as effective for whatever they are to be used for. If they weren’t in movies, no one would care.

Just because the questionnaire asks people if they have a mental conditikn, that is not sufficient. Why in the world would a diagnosis be withheld from the report? That is the issue, I own a gun in California, I know the form.

Not sure why the comment on Chicago, since that is just restating my point. Lax gun regulations in general correlate with lowers crime. Read before you attack.

Yes, I inverted the number, 1/3 of gun deaths 11,000 are homicides, the rest are suicides. The point is the same, which was that a large number of the deaths (suicides) would happen anyway, and a gun may be the most painless way for someone to off themselves, so that is the method men tend to choose.

My girlfriend just said something to me that I found interesting. For some reason school shootings seem common now. I think a lot of it is some bad kids glamorized Columbine and now it has started a string of imitations, but that is not the point.

Remember the saying, “He went postal?.” It seems like decades since that happened. An interesting social question is why? Is life easier now as a postal employee? What social phenomenon has made post offices safer and schools more dangerous?

Malcolm says

For some reason school shootings seem common now. I think a lot of it is some bad kids glamorized Columbine and now it has started a string of imitations, but that is not the point.

Maybe it IS the point. What's changed, firearms have been around for centuries, why the increase in school shootings now?

THAT'S the question that needs to be answered, the reason ISN'T firearms.

Malcolm says

Australia’s rate fell to a record low. It is slightly lower now at just 1 death per hundred thousand.

Deaths may have dropped but violent crimes and attacks went UP because people couldn't defend themselves. Is getting a violent beating by a thug acceptable because the thug wasn't shot by the homeowner and lived?

Malcolm says

AK47s and AR15s, wannabe M16s are glorified semi automatic rifles. They are just for looks,

So, what's the point? Since when does outside looks change the operation of a semi-auto? That means nothing in this argument.

Are we going to ban a certain model of firearms because they "look" scary??

Case in point, what's the difference in these two rifles?





The answer, absolutely nothing regarding operation. It's just the skin that's different. If Dems had their way, they would ban the bottom one, yet it's exactly the same operating rifle as the top squirrel shooter.

Malcolm says

Just because the questionnaire asks people if they have a mental conditikn, that is not sufficient.

If someone lies when they answer that question, they are an immediate felon if they take possession of the firearm. So, what new laws are the Dems wanting? Do they want to make it a DOUBLE felony to lie on the form? Will that make a guy determined to cause havoc to think twice? I doubt it.

anon_3b28c says

Where is Trump's leadership? What is he doing to stop these shootings??

Gee, he passed that responsibility to the FBI and state and local police departments. Those LEO's dropped the ball big time, even after multiple dozens of contacts with the punk.

What should Trump do now, go door to door himself and confiscate firearms?

Malcolm says

My girlfriend just said something to me that I found interesting. For some reason school shootings seem common now. I think a lot of it is some bad kids glamorized Columbine and now it has started a string of imitations, but that is not the point.

Remember the saying, “He went postal?.” It seems like decades since that happened. An interesting social question is why? Is life easier now as a postal employee? What social phenomenon has made post offices safer and schools more dangerous?

The “social phenomenon” is Republicans voters doing the bidding of their billionaires masters to destroy our social bonds and destroy the government that helped keep this country together

The NRA has released their marketing schematics

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun, so buy more guns today!

There’s nothing safer then arming a society made up of the same kind of halfwits that fill the pews on Sundays, in hopes of destroying our once great Republic

Sniper says

Malcolm says

Australia’s rate fell to a record low. It is slightly lower now at just 1 death per hundred thousand.

Deaths may have dropped but violent crimes and attacks went UP because people couldn't defend themselves. Is getting a violent beating by a thug acceptable because the thug wasn't shot by the homeowner and lived?

Malcolm says

AK47s and AR15s, wannabe M16s are glorified semi automatic rifles. They are just for looks,

So, what's the point? Since when does outside looks change the operation of a semi-auto? That means nothing in this argument.

Are we going to ban a certain model of firearms because they "look" scary??

Case in point, what's the difference in these two rifles?





The a...

Although your point about function is valid, which of those two guns has the pontential to kill more people before reload?

The most lawful and safest times in US History were the Wild West days. Didn't anyone else learn that in history class?

You are putting a $ price on a life? Isn’t that exactly the thing we all hate when corporations do that errc?

Sniper says

So, what's the point? Since when does outside looks change the operation of a semi-auto? That means nothing in this argument.

Are we going to ban a certain model of firearms because they "look" scary??

Case in point, what's the difference in these two rifles?

Again, I don't know why people are remaking my point, but the picture helps me to make the point. Yes, both guns function exactly the same way. In fact, when I was much younger, in the 1990s, I had a Ruger .22, it looked just like the top picture. I even had a clip that held 30 rounds. So you can even say they both have the same killing power. I am not a Democrat by the way, and I own a Browning 9mm pistol. I even owned an SKS in those days. The point I was making was that the gun in the top is not glamorized. The bottom one "looks scarier" and more "badass." The rifle at the top is a couple of hundred dollars, the rifle on the bottom is 4 figures, yet they do the same thing. Do I really need more proof to show that one is a glamorized weapon, making it sexy? I have never said anywhere that we need to control certain types of guns. I am now seeing a pattern though due to over-prescribed medications that I believe are causing mental illness not curing people of something that could just be a phase in their life.

I am aware that it is a crime to lie on the questionnaire. Those questions keep most people honest, but a background check is a check, it is not the honor system. I see no reason for the Trump administration to prohibit mental health records from showing up on the background check. That's like saying, felonies shouldn't show up, but it is a crime to lie and say you haven't been convicted of any. BTW, lying can be relative, especially in grey areas of marijuana and prescription drugs. Those policies can change from administration to administration.

Having said that, if people continue to criticize me without actually reading my points they will simply be ignored, because that is trolling.

errc says

Benefits

Legal gun ownership is directly correlated to lower crime rates.

Therefore the "gun nuts" have a positive impact on our economy.

Your entire premise is a farce.

Malcolm says

over-prescribed medications that I believe are causing mental illness

Bingo.

This is a cultural problem. First you have to separate the mass shooting phenomenon from gun violence at large. Regarding these mass shootings... We typically see young, lost, confused, mentally ill boys who are doped up w anti depressants DESIGNED TO INHIBIT FEELINGS. If you are already a lost soul, imagine having little to no empathy and no self reflection due to these drugs fucking w your natural emotions.

Jordan Peterson also discusses how our anti-male and anti-white culture will naturally lead to pathologies amongst the most vulnerable in those groups.

...and voila... We have the mass shooting phenomenon.

Stop brainwashing children w this SJW anti-white, anti-male idiocy and stop giving children anti depressants and speed. The problem would be largely solved.

But nah...it's a lot easier to judge them dern recheck gun nuts than reflect on the failures of our pathological society.

errc says

There’s nothing safer then arming a society made up of the same kind of halfwits that fill the pews on Sundays, in hopes of destroying our once great Republic

This is deeply racist. I weep for your lost soul.

CBOEtrader says

This is deeply racist. I weep for your lost soul.

Religion is a race?

I have also considered how this anti-white male phenomenon would play into young adolescent white boys’ mental development.

One small spill over benefit of Trump being elected is that it is kind of becoming hip to be white again.

It’s funny, if you visit China, there is a whole cosmetic surgery industry geared towards making them look more western. Another interesting thing that I noticed in China, and verified it after I returned, is that very few policemen actually carry guns in China, there’s not a political point I’m making, I just found it interesting.

CajunSteve says

CBOEtrader says

This is deeply racist. I weep for your lost soul.

Religion is a race?

If you'd rather call it simple bigotry, im ok w that....but yes, by the way the word had been used in our society, judging entire groups of people as less than yourself is generally referred to as racism.

CBOEtrader says

If you'd rather call it simple bigotry, im ok w that....but yes, by the way the word had been used in our society, judging entire groups of people as less than yourself is generally referred to as racism.

So most of Pat.net is racist by way of their views of liberals then?

CajunSteve says

So most of Pat.net is racist by way of their views of liberals then?

partisanship politics turns both sides bigoted, so perhaps. show me an example

Sniper says

Malcolm says

Australia’s rate fell to a record low. It is slightly lower now at just 1 death per hundred thousand.

Deaths may have dropped but violent crimes and attacks went UP because people couldn't defend themselves. Is getting a violent beating by a thug acceptable because the thug wasn't shot by the homeowner and lived?

Your proof is missing somehow.

There were 11 mass shooting in Australia from 1986 to 1996. The number since then is zero. quod erat demonstrandum

anon_4480e says

partisanship politics turns both sides bigoted, so perhaps. show me an example

I can, but is it really necessary? Look through almost any thread on here and there will be at least a half dozen memes that judge liberals as less than themselves.

Sniper says

Case in point, what's the difference in these two rifles?

One shoots 5 bullets and then must be reloaded one bullet at a time. The other shoots 30 bullets (up to 75 with extended mags) and can be reloaded almost instantly by simply clicking in another mag . Which is better for killing lots of people fast? How many less people/children would have died in florida, ct, tx, nv etc., etc., etc. if the shooter had to put in 5 bullets one a time after the first 5 shots?

Are you really such a crappy shot that you need to shoot multiple 30 round mags in the woods to hit something? I never had any trouble hunting with my old bolt action winchester model 70 featherweight. Although I will say my hunting partners rem 700 was more accurate.

BayArea says

Although your point about function is valid, which of those two guns has the pontential to kill more people before reload?

Malcolm says

The rifle at the top is a couple of hundred dollars, the rifle on the bottom is 4 figures, yet they do the same thing. Do I really need more proof to show that one is a glamorized weapon, making it sexy?

bob2356 says

One shoots 5 bullets and then must be reloaded one bullet at a time. The other shoots 30 bullets

There is the blind Liberal, non supported narrative to all the nonsense about gun control.

That picture is the SAME Ruger 10/22 22LR rifle, the bottom one just has a different outside skin. They both take the SAME magazines, either a 10 round, 15 round or 30 round.

This is proof the liberals have NO IDEA what they're screetching about with "Gun Control". To them, the "picture" is more dangerous then the actual hardware.

bob2356 says

There were 11 mass shooting in Australia from 1986 to 1996. The number since then is zero. quod erat demonstrandum

The violent crime rate in Australia shot up across the board after the gun ban. In the years afterwards the crime rate of the entire western world fell, including in the US where gun ownership rates rose. Australia's violent crime rates also fell, but by nowhere near as much.

The results of the Australia gun ban are murky at best.

Malcolm says

One small spill over benefit of Trump being elected is that it is kind of becoming hip to be white again.

"Its ok to be white" signs at schools were met w media coverage and police reports cause of them dern racists. Yes, according to anti-trumpers, allowing white people to feel ok about themselves is a crime.

CBOEtrader says

The results of the Australia gun ban are murky at best.

But interesting.

bob2356 says

Which is better for killing lots of people fast?

Please share with us, how many of the 5 million AR-15's in existence in the US were used for mass killings this year versus how many are used for sport shooting, eliminating varmints on farms, and other lawful uses?

bob2356 says

Your proof is missing somehow.

There were 11 mass shooting in Australia from 1986 to 1996. The number since then is zero.

How about sharing the number of violent crimes (robberies, rapes, beatings, ect.) since the gun ban went into affect. Is it just about mass killings that you liberals care about?

CajunSteve says

Look through almost any thread on here and there will be at least a half dozen memes that judge liberals as less than themselves.

Unfortunately, those are factual.

Sniper says

How about sharing the number of violent crimes (robberies, rapes, beatings, ect.) since the gun ban went into affect. Is it just about mass killings that you liberals care about?

First, I am not anti gun or liberal, but facts is facts. Australia is averaging 1 out of 100,000 deaths from homicide. The USA, depending on what numbers you can find are between 3 and 5 per hundred thousand. I did find one source that shows rapes in Australia are 5% higher than the USA. Other crimes seem to be lower, but they are basically grouped as violent crimes, so I can't find much on robberies. Snopes classifies the claim that banning guns in Australia led to higher crime rates as false.

https://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

This alone does not sway me to wanting to ban guns, although going back to some earlier comments, dressing up a gun to look scarier or badass to me implies that there is something wrong with that particular owner. If you are using your gun to intimidate anyone, you are a threat and should lose your right.

My concern is also banning guns, because during a certain time frame things seem stable. I have had the conversation in the past about different people throughout history who should not have been passive about guns. Liberals make the mistake of not realizing that there is a compelling point to be made that the reason the world is getting safer and safer is because guns keep things level. Removing guns from a society leaves the potential for a dictator to take over, or for an ISIS group to make a power grab.

I live in San Diego, one of the safest places in the world. We have reasonably lax gun laws here, just south of us is Tijuana, Mexico. They have a full ban on private gun ownership. They are overrun by cartels. Things have improved, but the deaths from gun violence, in a country that bans guns, was in the 10s of thousands in Tijuana alone. Those poor people are helpless and trapped in a hell hole. If a cartel decides to do a home invasion and kill an entire family, because of this or that political connection, there just isn't a good guy with a gun to come to the rescue. It was happening daily in the 2000s.

Here's two things everybody should agree on:

The FBI and Sheriff's Office must be called into Account.

I would also remind folks that Omar Mateen was also referred to the FBI at least once (may have been several times) before the previous record Mass Murder in Orlando.

A review of the forcible mental health incarceration laws that don't apparently allow troubled individuals with a rich past of violent threats and interactions with authorities to be incarcerated for the safety of themselves and the public.

Why a huge K-12 campus lacks elemental security, meaning an individual, posted at the entrance. Quite frankly, if you're not a vendor, parent, faculty, staff or ER Personnel, why should ANYBODY be admitted into a school building without ID, a valid reason, and a pat-down or x-ray?

Businesses with a fraction of the people, all of whom are adults, generally have at least one person at the door or in front of the elevators demanding ID. Why not a campus of 1000+ kids? Doesn't need to be a full-fledged cop or deputy, just a security guard. Great set-aside job for Veterans.

We usually hear, "It was a total surprise... quiet kid..." this time that is emphatically not the case.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Why a huge K-12 campus lacks elemental security, meaning an individual, posted at the entrance. Quite frankly, if you're not a vendor, parent, faculty, staff or ER Personnel, why should ANYBODY be admitted into a school building without ID, a valid reason, and a pat-down or x-ray?

I'm curious as well, because a couple of years ago I visited my old neighborhood of Coral Springs, FL. My old house is actually quite close to the recent shooting. There was a Sheriff's car parked in front of all of my old schools, I drove by all of them. Coral Springs Elementary, Middle and High School all had very visible exterior security.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Why a huge K-12 campus lacks elemental security, meaning an individual, posted at the entrance

lol--you think a school campus has "an" entrance?

Why don't you research how many entrances there are at most school campuses and then determine how many security guards that would mean. Then finally, figure how much additional cost that would add. Oh, yeah, who's going to pay?

Resource Officers are very good, but mostly they're walking the halls and keeping order inside the building.

Is there nobody stationed at the entrance at all times during normal school hours? As far as I've seen, the answer is "No".

CajunSteve says

lol--you think a school campus has "an" entrance?

Most schools have one main entrance that is open. The rest are emergency doors that are locked from the outside and sound an alarm if pushed from the inside. Every school I went to was this way.

At my Elementary, JHS, and two HS's, the only way in was the main door, and the service entrance locked from the outside. The staff could open these from the outside only with a key, although they would open out for anybody pushing on the bar, which would make a sound and light up a board. This was 30 years ago.

If not, this is a minor fix that should have been required decades ago.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Most schools have one main entrance that is open. The rest are emergency doors that are locked from the outside and sound an alarm if pushed from the inside. Every school I went to was this way.

Why don't we just lock the main door too then? And any visitor must get buzzed in?