patrick.net

They then recently had the nerve to send my dog a fucking birthday card. Mother fuckers.

Are we being led to believe our pets require more care than necessary?

I am not going to do CAT scans on our cats.

"Ethical people do ethical things. Why do you need to take a class? "

That was my point of view at the time. The final project: Write an essay on who are directore responsible to.

I said the shareholders only because ethical shareholders would not expect directors to do unethical things. Got a B or a B- on the paper.

Evidently shareholders put the results ahead of the ethics.

directors

MBA Marketing class conclusion. Vets are in a unique position because and I quote "When Fido is on the operating table, people will pull out the credit card and not question the amount."

Since I love sharing the pet horror story I may as well post the link:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/236/RipOff0236998.htm

I said the shareholders only because ethical shareholders would not expect directors to do unethical things. Got a B or a B- on the paper.

Well, IF I am the shareholder you are hired. ;)

“When Fido is on the operating table, people will pull out the credit card and not question the amount.”

I will tell the vet that my cat prefers alternative medicine.

Present the vet with an advanced directive signed by your cat saying not to use any expensive treatments to prolong its life. :(

Sorry I know that may strike an emotional nerve.

I was lucky...

In one of the ethics classes, I claimed that bribery is not necessarily evil and that it is more of an indication of inefficiency.

The instructor did not disagree.

I would have given you an A for original thought, and courage.

The need to have bribery to get something done is more indicitive of a corrupt or otherwise broken system.

I somewhat share your point of view since system design is the core of my undergraduate and professional focus.

I would have given you an A for original thought, and courage.

Thanks.

As humans, we like to believe in justice, equality, fairness, and decency. The real world is not exactly like that... :(

The need to have bribery to get something done is more indicitive of a corrupt or otherwise broken system.

Yep. It also means that resources (services or resources) are severely mis-allocated.

Free Market seems to be promising. One challenge is to suitably regulate the market just so that it is efficient and HUMAN.

But yet you defend the conditions in which the evils fester and (often correctly since state power does the same) yet don't even allow the option of the collective contribution for the overall social betterment. That presents a dilema to me.

If a meteor was heading to Earth and going to wipe everyone out, who in your mind would try to stop it?

DinOR says: On the East Coast it’s all about “old money” and tracing your families wealth to the “whaling fleet”.

DinOR, have you ever even been to the East Coast? I mean really traveled there, not just flown in for a few days and then filled in the rest with movies and TV shows. The northern East Coast is about immigrants, not blue bloods. The defining aspect of the culture is Wall Street, Capitol Hill and the attitude that "anyone can make it in America".

The southern East Coast... well that's something entirely different.

But yet you defend the conditions in which the evils fester

It is more complicated than that... let's say we always oscillate from one extreme to another. Perhaps human society is a dilemma? Hey, if even God is unable or unwilling to solve the human problem, the dilemma is either hard or purposeful. :)

If a meteor was heading to Earth and going to wipe everyone out, who in your mind would try to stop it?

Interesting question. I doubt it can be stopped. I will call Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck.

Assume it can, and if not hopefully someone would try. Who would it be? A government? Would a heroic corporation lose its wealth knowing it was the only one and there was no compensation?

Or is this too simple? Maybe it clearly falls under "Provide for the common defense." Still the fundamental since I'm sure your conviction goes beyond the constitutional definition of government role. A strict libertarian view, who stops the meteor?

How will the free market stop it? The government is small and doesn't have the resources in this problem.

Assume it can, and if not hopefully someone would try. Who would it be? A government? Would a heroic corporation lose its wealth knowing it was the only one and there was no compensation?

Perhaps someone should write a novel about this scenario.

To make it more interesting...

Let's say a meteor is to hit Earth in 100 years with 75% certainty. How will humanity react? There may be enough time to develop new technology but the treat may not materialize. What should we do? :)

Peter Paul the libertarian candiate surprises everyone and wins the election. In his first week he eliminates the IRS, and reshapes government to his ideal view. A month later an amateur (no government scientists left) sees the meteor in his telescope. The space program has been cancelled but everything is still there, the auction hasn't happened yet.

What does Peter do?

I can't answer your scenario first because that would help you. I promise I have the solution in my hybrid model.

What does Peter do?

We are doomed! :)

But that is the worst case, right?

Peter,

Do nothing. I mean, really, who cares about the survival of the human race. I expect a lot of sex happening all over the world when people know they're going to be wiped out. Not just with humans, with monkeys, dogs, cats, snakes and ants, too. Many people have secret desires that a meteor will bring to fulfillment. Not long ago, a man in Washington died from having sex with his horse.

Perhaps I will fly over to Japan and have a Fugu feast...

ANTS?

I know. Some activities are better than sex.

Ok, you lost my vote :)

My solution under your scenario and probability:

Levy a per capita tax and put it into a specific account. That account will grow each year until the meteor is stopped. Whoever, or whichever corporation stops the meteor gets all of the money as a national prize. I believe in paying for performance.

The probability is irrelevent, just having it on an undisputed course with the Earth is enough of a crisis.

Perhaps the scenario is just outside Free Market's "envelope" of capability.

I can bet that all markets will breakdown and we will all revert to the basic mode. It is not going to be pretty.

Yuck! Please stop!

Well it is easy to use the normal course of distribution of goods and services to argue the merits of the free market, just as it is easy to use an example outside the norm to illustrate limits. Admittedly it gets kind of tricky in the middle. The distinction in my opinion between political points of view is where you draw the limits.

In my hybrid model thesis the government never competes with the free market, and happily hands off tasks the free market can take from it. The dilema is that high social need activities tend to be ones that don't generate any return for the private marketplace.

Yet the private markets of course receive the benefits of solving the social problems.

The dilema is that high social need activities tend to be ones that don’t generate any return for the private marketplace.

So the dilemma shall remain... human is the hard problem.

My opinion, any system would work if the human problem could be solved. Collectivism would work just fine if we didn't mind carrying our share of the work and or didn't resent it when others didn't, or didn't derive satisfaction when others are doing more than us for the same reward.

Collectivism would work just fine if we didn’t mind carrying our share of the work and or didn’t resent it when others didn’t, or didn’t derive satisfaction when others are doing more than us for the same reward.

That require qualities we denounced the day Adam ate the apple. :)

Probably why the founders hid behind the concept of God given rights as the basis of individual liberty in the hypocritical logic.

their hypocritical logic.

All I know is that eating meat is a God given right.