patrick.net

awwww, TOB is sad he only get's a bronze.

sniffle. sniffle.

Don't worry TOB, once health care and all your precious over-regulation and never ending socialist programs collapse this country in massive unrecoverable debt, and a libertarian society grows out of the ashes, I will let you mow my lawn in exchange for a silver subscription.

So where do you stop on the way up?

I propose that we would stop on the way down at military defense. I think it's necessary and required to uphold a society. Therefore, involuntary requirement to pay for.

Where would you stop on the way up? If not health care, then where? Should my government be feeding me? Should it be bathing me? Should it provide me a car and a beach house?

Why do you act as if anyone gives a fart about your opinions regarding economic planning?

they have no such opinion!

And they certainly don't expect those going through puberty to be interested in any such discussion.

Oh wait, you're like 29 huh?

my bad.

I for one am not suggesting we do anything. It will come to us naturally. At this point, just continuing on exactly as we are for another 12-15 years should do the trick just fine.

I’m not suggesting a massive overhaul of our entire legal and economic structure...

Because someone already did just that in the 1930's.

Many would argue that the Great Depression lasted so long mainly because of the New Deal.

It has been proven time and again that welfare creates and sustains poverty.

don't worry. We'll be starving and dying soon enough. But for now, lets get me some a that unemployment! Woohoo!

You are so ON today TOB! It's amazing. You said fuck & d-bag!

I wish I had your wit, and clever debating skills.

oh wait, I said debating. I wonder what TOB will do with that one! I can't wait!

Anyhow, we are essentially talking to a prepubescent child at this point Peter. He can't even put together a point while sophomorically attempting to personally attack us.

Time to get back to work.

@Patrick

As for setting the “right” rate, one proposal is simply to let people pay what they want and make that payment a legally binding offer to sell for 50X that amount.

Interesting proposal. As long as there is preferential treatment of different borrowers however, this is an unworkable scheme, and there would still be a lot of credit-driven speculation as developers with deeper credit access try to buy and flip properties out from under individuals who have less leverage in the credit markets.

How about something along the lines of in order for the offer to be legally binding, it has to be backed by fee-simple, unencumbered capital. That is, the payment is in pure, unleveraged capital, which generates no lien or payment or conditional claim upon the property anywhere. An amount equal to 20% of the offer, also in unencumbered capital, must also be put up, to go into escrow for 10 years. During that entire time, the owner who was outbid or any third party is free to challenge whether or not the offer was paid with unencumbered capital.

The owner who was outbid can terminate the escrow early by filing a declaration. They can accept a payoff if they want.

If it is proven that the offer was paid with any kind of credit-based transaction involved, then the deed reverts to the owner who was outbid, that owner also gets to keep the payment, and the escrow amount goes to whoever showed proof that the payment was funded by or conditioned upon some kind of credit.

I know that when I used to buy VA foreclosures, the VA had paid the property taxes. In the escrow I would then have to pay my prorated portion. I don't see why banks would be any different. I doubt they are.

Owner occupied homes get a small exemption off the valuation. If I'm not mistaken it is a flat $7,000 reduction of the value.

Question: What is to Liberitards as Surfer-X is to Baby Boomers?
Answer: The Original Bankster.

Bankster, you are having another one of your peak days. May you have many more.

Who was it that wanted to stand in line with me for a new Jetta TDI Clean DIesel?

Was it EBGuy, or Duke, or ? I'm sorry I forgot.

Whoever it was, here is big news: The Jetta TDI Clean Diesel is here! in fact, I drove one personally today at Boardwalk Volkswagen in Redwood City, CAlifornia. It's a great car, and it is going to be very energy efficient. Apart from the big and costly Mercedes E320 Bluetec Clean Diesel, this is the only California-clean diesel car available. May there be many more. The 1.2L Diesel+hybrid will be even better (70MPG), but you will have to wait a while.

Unfortunately, the sticker only lists mileage as 29/40 MPG, but I think the real numbers will be around 40/50 MPG if you drive carefully. If you believe the gauge, I was getting 50MPG easy while going 35MPH on the frontage roads of HW-101.

So far Boardwalk only have the one demo car, but they are getting 20 more in about 2 weeks. The sportwagon version is coming in september (this is the one I'm considering).

Oops, that was supposed to be "Libertaritards" two posts back....

I'm in trouble now. I'm a sort-of libertarian and a boomer.

Dennis, you can hope the two properties will cancel each other out. It is not a given that Surfer-X and TOB will agree what should do with your wife, or whatever was the favorite condemnation.. ;-)

Actually, I'm pretty sure TOB has libertarian leanings. Some of the articles/videos he posts links to have libertarian themes.

Although his hatread of Peter P and his philosophical one-liners will keep him from ever admitting it.

I don't even acknowledge myself as a libertarian, but there do seem to be some compelling arguments there. Clearly the path we're on leads to a giant pile of shit. I don't see how adding social programs on top of ones that are already bankrupting the country are going to do any good.

On the topic of oil, this article makes a compelling argument for speculation...

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0502.html

Justme,

The joke was always on surfer-x: I'm single.

Peter P Says:

> I am not exactly a Libertarian. I am a Free Market Conservative

I usually say that I am a fiscally conservative Democrat or a socially progressive Republican. I hate most Democrats and Republicans but since we don't have a lot of pot smoking intellectuals in the US I'm sure I'll die before a Libertarian wins a major election...

The Original Bankster Says:

1) libertaritards
2) boomers
3) chindians
4) gheys
5) peter p

Dick

Numero fucking uno, the fucking boomers. Oh, we call them "horseshoes" for the horseshoe of hair around their heads.

Hrm, I was hoping someone would comment on Tax Liens.

To my mind this thread has an important point. What do counties do to collect taxes from banks? A few liens are okay as a certain level of uncolected revenue is factored into budgets. But I seem to be hearing that we have:
1) a ton of people not paying their their property taxes
2) a ton of banks not paying their property taxes

I would say that they can run out and borrow mony, but the cost to do so is now much higher.

justme Says:
June 24th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
"Unfortunately, the sticker only lists mileage as 29/40 MPG, but I think the real numbers will be around 40/50 MPG if you drive carefully. If you believe the gauge, I was getting 50MPG easy while going 35MPH on the frontage roads of HW-101."

I keep hearing different people say that a Golf makes more sense than a Prius. I can get 50MPG while going 75 with the cruise control. So can someone tell me, how a VW is better than a Pruis when it comes to fuel economy? I don't really know how they compare on other attributes.

A buddy of mine works for a Central Valley County and here is how it works there.

Let's say you have a note on your house and you don't pay your taxes. After so many years , they put a lien on the property. If more time goes by, they force the sale of the property and kick your butt out. (they don't care about the bank) When the property is sold on the courthouse steps to collect the owed taxes, the buyer had better have done a title search because the money is still owed on the note and when they take on the property they take on the debt. Fun huh?

When I went to a San Diego County tax auction they said the only liens that one should be aware of would be Federal liens, like a tax lien. My understanding is that banks are no different and can lose a property to the county just like everyone else. I don't believe a trust deed on the property would carry over to a new owner as the bank foreclosing on the prior owner is basically wiping the slate clean. They now own the property just like anyone else. I'm not quite sure if other liens like contractor liens come into play, I know those can transfer over from owner to owner but not sure if they are wiped out during a County Tax seizure.

Duke, I always found the topic of banks paying the taxes interesting. From years ago people here used to speculate that the carrying costs of having to pay the taxes would put pressure on banks to relieve themselves of REOs. Not only do they find themselves with a non performing loan, but they have the burden of 1%+ taxes in California each year on each one. If you think about it, it doesn't sound like much, but if the bank has 100 properties it is like buying a full price house each year, and paying cash for it. Not very attractive for a for profit business to have to do.

So can someone tell me, how a VW is better than a Pruis when it comes to fuel economy?
Smug factor... like a true Bay Aryan I can run my Golf TDI virtually free of fossil fuels (and therefore, with very little carbon emissions). Biodiesel aside, if you are really getting 50mpg on the highway, that is hard to beat. The diesel may beat you with long term maintenance costs (due to complexity of the multiple motor/generators on the Prius) but I don't think there is a definitive aswer yet. That said, TDI enthusiasts really enjoy their turbos.
If I went solar, I might be tempted by a plug-in conversion of a Prius.

The plug in hybrid is my conceptual model for the future. I have solar and may even change to peak shaving pricing when I get a plug in. I have a deposit and a place in line for the Aptera but that is looking like 2009 before I can get it. The plug in Prius is due out next year but really the specs for the electric range are still disappointing but better than nothing so maybe I'll just lease that while I'm waiting and then let my girlfriend drive it when our current lease is up on her Prius and hopefully my Aptera will be ready. I think we are going to find the next 3 years to be pretty exciting in the auto/renewable refueling industry.

My small solar company actually has a bit of a backlog of work so I really think times are changing for the better when in comes to renewables and reducing the need for foreign oil. It is getting rarer and rarer to find people who disagree with any substantive arguments.

I understand that they claim diesel is generally cleaner but I'm still not quite sure why it is preferrable over gasoline if the mileage is the same. I know they are making the engines cleaner but I don't see how something that makes visible smoke, and smells is cleaner than an efficient gasoline engine like a Prius.

Malcolm,

I don't think a gasoline Golf can beat a Prius on straight MPG. However, the new clean diesel Jetta might under some circumstances, and it should be quite close overall.The main thing about diesel engines is that they are fundamentally more efficient than gasoline engines. By "fundamental" I mean that it is directly attributable to the physics of the system.

The higher compression ratio of diesel engines is the main factor here.

I spoke recently with a retired MechE professor who was a bit of a diesel pioneer in his younger days, and has 40+ years of experience in the field, He explained to me the two main aspects of diesel efficiency. Number one is the higher compression ratio, which translates into more work getting done in the thermodynamic cycle.

When I was a kid my dad explained that the higher compression, slower combustion, and the nature of the fuel itself being a thicker kind of grade gave you more energy for the volume. This being the case, diesel hybrids should be even more interesting, and Aptera gets asked constantly why not use a diesel generator instead of a gasoline generator?

All that aside, I still don't know why the Golf is just granted the title of being superior to the Prius. Like I said, I've never driven one so I can't compare anything other than mileage, but that is the claim to fame that I keep hearing. So I am torn between the argument that diesel is just a better fuel than gasoline, or the argument against the Prius specifically, but no one can show me another gasoline powered car which is superior to the Prius for mileage and a reasonably good 4 cylinder car. I remember in the 80 and 90s the Chevy sprint that got very good mileage but was a 3 cylinder car, I would barely consider it a car given that my girlfriend had one and my brother and his friends used to play practical jokes on her by picking it up and moving it around.

[re-post with complete text]

Malcolm,

I don’t think a gasoline Golf can beat a Prius on straight MPG. However, the new clean diesel Jetta might under some circumstances, and it should be quite close overall.The main thing about diesel engines is that they are fundamentally more efficient than gasoline engines. By “fundamental” I mean that the difference is directly attributable to the physics of the system.

I spoke recently with a retired MechE professor who was a bit of a diesel pioneer in his younger days, and has 40+ years of experience in the field, He explained to me the two main aspects of diesel efficiency. Number one is the higher compression ratio, which translates into more work getting done in each thermodynamic cycle, for the same amount of fuel burned.

The second aspect was new to me: A gasoline engine has a lower limit on the amount of fuel you can practically inject per combustion, because it gets impractically hard to ignite a "lean" mixture of gasoline and air. A diesel engine has no fundamental lower limit on the amount of fuel that can usefully be injected, because the ignition is thermal and distributed as opposed to central and by spark plug. This translates into a more efficient idle and low-load performance of the diesel.

But of course you cannot beat turning the engine off, which Prius is good at. Anyway, a diesel+ electric hybrid combines the best of both worlds, and when they arrive they will be truly awesome.

Justme, I'm referring specifically to a video on Youtube where the guy is saying the Golf diesel is superior. It is actually a funny video, but in my opinion is misinformative. Although it is the 1st generation which even I admit is hideous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOvp69lnZbA

Malcom,

Yes, indeed the specific energy of diesel oil is also 11% higher than gasoline. Per wikipedia

"When burnt, diesel typically releases about 38.6 MJ/l (138700 Btu per US gallon), whereas gasoline releases 34.9 MJ/l (125000 Btu per US gallon), about 11% less.[2]"

This also helps, but it is the difference in thermodynamic performance which is the most significant aspect.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/revealed-volksw.html

Admittedly this does look impressive. I don't see the price anywhere.

Yes, what you were saying about fuel air mixture made a lot of sense.

I would still have to be sold on the overall clenliness of diesel. I'm a hard sell, I remember going to places like Martinique where all the cars are diesel Mercedes and seeing a black layer of soot all over everything. I can't imagine that is good to breathe but I believe it will be a moot point which fuel is the backup. Having the primary drive train as electric is really the new technology which in my view seems certain to dominate in the near future. The explosion of hybrid acceptance has surprised even me. For those who don't live in California it is truly amazing to just look around a parking lot to see the proportion of hybrids to regular cars. I rarely even see SUVs anymore. On my last visit to SF, on some streets literally half the cars are Priuses.

The higher compression ratio of diesel engines is the main factor here.
And don't forget that the energy density of diesel fuel is about 10% greater than gasoline.
Malcolm, who is your utility company? Just curious to compare TOU rate schedules.

SDG&E

San Diego Gas and Electric.

Malcolm,

The video was funny but short on substance, except for the British class and the American testosterone :-).