patrick.net

edvard2 says

5: Passed credit card laws that stops CC companies from raising rates without a notice.

I'm guessing this was a bi-partisan effort that Obama signed into law. Any links?

AverageBear says

"Saving" the auto industry? By that, do you mean stealing for the UAW? Ask the Delphi non-union folks about your savior...

Believe you need to look back on history as well as current performance. GM and Chrysler would have gone bankrupt, no question, had there not been a government bailout. We are talking about an industry that employees millions of people and generates untold billions of dollars of revenue per year.

As we now see, all three of the Big three automakers are doing exceptionally well. GM not only has markedly improved sales in the US, but they now do even better overseas. That's right- they sell cars overseas now.

So my question for all of the righty-wingers who think GM and Chrysler should have failed, what would that have done to the economy? You guys wail about waste and costs. Had those millions of autoworkers been lost then suddenly we would have had many, many millions of people instantly on the unemployment system. That versus the majority of those people staying at work and now contributing to the national economy.

And don't say we're alone in doing this: There isn't a single automaker in the world that has not at some point either been subsidized, bailed out, or otherwise helped along by their respective governments. AverageBear says

You think this is a good thing? Really? I can see how this will be used as a weapon, just like the IRS is currently used.

Yes. I was one of those people who used a Pell grant to get through college. There are millions of people who use them and they are a means for people to be able to actually afford college. As far as getting banks out of federal loans, that means that they got financial interests whom viewed student loans as a profit making endeavor out of that business. Again- as a means to in some ways limit the costs of college. There are still MANY things that need to be done to improve its affordability. Pell grants are just one of those ways and it works very well.

freak80 says

Unfortunately, the language of economics is most commonly known as "bullshitting."

The problem is that economics isn't a science. It's supposed to be but economics refuse to use the scientific method and thus economics is a religion.

Wouldn't it be nice if economic theories were subject to the scientific method and any theory, such as Supply Side Economics, was discarded when it failed to relate to observations.

AverageBear says

I'm guessing this was a bi-partisan effort that Obama signed into law. Any links?

It was his presidency in which this law was passed. Nuff said. Either way, this President has certainly gotten more done, and of those- better things done- than his predecessor. Despite having a basically outdated, and soon to be less relevant GOP whom have acted like adult babies the second they lost the election in 08'

Call it Crazy says

Hey Eddie, give it a rest!!! You were in middle school in the 90's, so you're clueless on what happened..... Time to switch from Mother Jones to the Disney channel....

Sorry man, I was in college back then and well-aware of the situation. Like I said.... people like can make cute lil' posts all day long till' the cows come home about "Liberal this, liberal that, its all Obama's fault, blah blah blah"...

And guess what? They are simply wasting their time. The GOP will still lose.

They lost in 08
They lost in 12
They have lost the Obamacare thing
They are losing over the shutdown
And they will continue to lose. Regardless of what their shills say...

Dan8267 says

freak80 says

Unfortunately, the language of economics is most commonly known as "bullshitting."

The problem is that economics isn't a science. It's supposed to be but economics refuse to use the scientific method and thus economics is a religion.

Wouldn't it be nice if economic theories were subject to the scientific method and any theory, such as Supply Side Economics, was discarded when it failed to relate to observations.

That's not true. There are plenty of countries (Singapore,Chile, Poland etc.) which mainly went with systems of supply-side economics and have been doing very well since then. I agree that it's hard to prove but equally hard to disprove. I'd say that it beats turning $100 into $200 via a printing press and claiming you have bettered the economy.

Dan8267 says

Wouldn't it be nice if economic theories were subject to the scientific method and any theory, such as Supply Side Economics, was discarded when it failed to relate to observations.

Heretic!

New Renter says

Depends how much of a pain in the ass you are.

I'll open up some fire hydrants. And maybe leave a bag of flaming poo on the mayor's doorstep.

zzyzzx says

I don't think it's just a small portion of people abusing welfare benefits. Particularly when half the people on "disability" could easily work a job,

Making things up to prove a point doesn't really make the point very valid. SO you "think" half of the people on welfare are able to work? Hmmm... Curious how that conclusion was arrived at other than just being pulled out of the air.

freak80 says

Bigsby says

He is very deadpan though. It's pretty easy to take what he says literally if you forget what he really thinks.

True. I guess that's why someone came up with the term "Poe's Law."

I'm not sure how this could be seen as anything but sarcasm:
HydroCabron says

But this is the only proper time to cut spending radically: a Democrat is in the White House.

Back in the 2003-2005 time frame, when Republicans had the White House, the House, and the Senate, was no time to cut federal spending

edvard2 says

What we are seeing here is basically a repeat of what happened in the 90's when the GOP last decided to pull this stunt and use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip

Ah it just hit me, this is a medical problem not political. The GOP has developed dementia like many of it's aging voters. It can't remember that last fall down the stairs and consequent broken hip, and sees no reason to avoid the stairs.

Quigley says

The language of the universe may well be mathematics, but this is not to say that our current understanding of math is adequate to describe it. Just as bodies in motion required the invention of calculus to describe, the inner truths of the universe may require additional advances to even comprehend, let alone describe and predict.

Doesn't matter. Economics still involves mostly bullshitting. Math works, whether it be in theory or practice. No human emotions/characteristics factor in.

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Tuesday, October 15, 2013 __ Level is 96.8

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes indeed, go here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

Ok. So what the fuck is a "thing"??

HydroCabron says

Time dilation is definitely a thing.

edvard2 says

zzyzzx says

I don't think it's just a small portion of people abusing welfare benefits. Particularly when half the people on "disability" could easily work a job,

Making things up to prove a point doesn't really make the point very valid. SO you "think" half of the people on welfare are able to work? Hmmm... Curious how that conclusion was arrived at other than just being pulled out of the air.

100% of those on welfare are able to work. The 50% refers to those on SSI and state disability programs.

dodgerfanjohn says

100% of those on welfare are able to work

I can make up crap too. Its easy.
100% of the population LOVES anchovies on their pizzas. True cuz; I said it.

anonymous says

The Nobel economics prize has brought public attention to the Efficient Market Hypothesis.

The hypothesis might work but there is no "price discovery"when there is artificially manipulated interest ratesx and government regulations and subsidies

Conventional wisdom says our own homes are a great place to invest money because the value of a house will inevitably appreciate.

One of Shiller's most eye-popping findings actually says quite the opposite: Historically, between 1890 and 1990, the actual rate of return on owning a home has been virtually non-existent.

We think housing is a great investment.

Shiller says it's not.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/housing/2013/10/economist-who-just-won-nobel-prize-thinks-housing-terrible-investment/7240/

Dan8267 says

The problem is that economics isn't a science. It's supposed to be but economics refuse to use the scientific method and thus economics is a religion.

Not all sciences are exact sciences. The economy is a black box masking a fantastically complex reality and all we have are a few observations on the outside. Economics make theories and these may be far from capturing the entire mechanism but it doesn't mean they are useless as long as they capture enough of it.

A theory doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. Most of the time Newton's theory of gravity is sufficient to explain reality.

Unfortunately economics are subject to politics and vested interests, which is why it is so hard for it to be purely objective.

John Bailo says

We think housing is a great investment.

Shiller says it's not.

All signs are that we are in an historical abnormal period with regard to housing prices.

Once all the printed money starts getting spent, inflation will hammer housing prices.

Heraclitusstudent says

All signs are that we are in an historical abnormal period with regard to housing prices.

To which signs do you refer?

Heraclitusstudent says

Once all the printed money starts getting spent, inflation will hammer housing prices.

Why would inflation not hit housing as well as everything else?

I guess I was wrong:
http://gma.yahoo.com/walmart-stuck-most-food-stamp-shopping-spree-211120842--abc-news-topstories.html

Walmart is stuck with the bill for letting food stamp queens go nuts with funny money in its stores! Hurray for the taxpayer! I guess

tatupu70 says

Why would inflation not hit housing as well as everything else?

Because they are already inflated.

Heraclitusstudent says

tatupu70 says

Why would inflation not hit housing as well as everything else?

Because they are already inflated.

Housing payments are secondary to food and gas. And the banks have already shown they won't evict immediately.

Bap33 says

Bush's fault. No patnet libs will utter a word about this. It looked like an Obama - Trevon ralley.

We need to stop all giveaway govt. support.
No more EBT,no type of assistance checks, no individual or business subsidies, no entitlements(SSI,Medicare,Medicaid,etc.)
paid for with tax dollars.Since Rep/Con/Teas are such great leaders I'm sure they will be the first to remove themselves from all this Socialism.

Heraclitusstudent says

Because they are already inflated.

lol--OK then.

mell says

I'd say that it beats turning $100 into $200 via a printing press and claiming you have bettered the economy.

Isn't printing money and giving it to the TBTF banks a pretty good example of "supply-side" economics? :-)

Heraclitusstudent says

Unfortunately economics are subject to politics and vested interests, which is why it is so hard for it to be purely objective.

Very true.

Bigsby says

What the major companies do in Asia they'd do in Europe and the US if they had the opportunity. What do you think has contributed to them not being able to do the same anymore?

Jesus loves Good White People more, that's why.*

*There are people who actually believe that America's prosperity is because America is God's Chosen Nation, and invoke Old Testament teachings to make their case.

edvard2 says

Making things up to prove a point doesn't really make the point very valid.

Sure it does. If Fox News says it, it's The Truth.

The whole far-right-wing worldview is based on "appeal to authority."

How old is the earth? 10,000 years. Why? The Bible says so.

Why is homosexual behavior evil? The Bible says so.

Why will a modest increase in capital gains taxes crash the economy? The TV-box said so.

Why are all people on welfare lazy bums? My daddy said so.

Critical thinking is too hard. Let others do the thinking.

freak80 says

edvard2 says

Making things up to prove a point doesn't really make the point very valid.

Sure it does. If Fox News says it, it's The Truth.

The whole far-right-wing worldview is based on "appeal to authority."

How old is the earth? 10,000 years. Why? The Bible says so.

Why is homosexual behavior evil? The Bible says so.

Why will a modest increase in capital gains taxes crash the economy? The TV-box said so.

Why are all people on welfare lazy bums? My daddy said so.

Critical thinking is too hard. Let others do the thinking.

I have no clue if Fox News reports on these matters or not. My experience comes from real life.

Spend some time in the courthouses in Long Beach or Compton(or better yet the juvenile courts...Kenyon and Eastlake will suffice), and report back.

I'll be waiting.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/food-stamp-free-for-all-after-ebt-glitch/

edvard2 says

So my question for all of the righty-wingers who think GM and Chrysler should
have failed, what would that have done to the economy?

The right wingers have selective memory, because there's been some pretty big bailouts handed out by republicans.
Here's some other companies that were bailed out.

http://www.propublica.org/special/government-bailouts
Savings & Loan 1989 After the widespread failure of savings and loan institutions, President George H. W. Bush signed and Congress enacted the Financial Institutions Reform Recovery and Enforcement Act in 1989. (What happened after the bailout?) $293.3 billion

Airline Industry 2001 The terrorist attacks of September 11 crippled an already financially troubled industry. To bail out the airlines, President Bush signed into law the Air Transportation Safety and Stabilization Act, which compensated airlines for the mandatory grounding of aircraft after the attacks. The act released $5 billion in compensation and an additional $10 billion in loan guarantees or other federal credit instruments. (What happened after the bailout?)

dodgerfanjohn says

Spend some time in the courthouses in Long Beach or Compton(or better yet the
juvenile courts...Kenyon and Eastlake will suffice), and report back.

I'll be waiting.

Any such "evidence" would be purely anectodal.

Of course some people abuse welfare systems. And it's not a good thing.

To find out the actual extent of the problem, we'd need actual data. Going to a few bad neighborhoods and seeing poor people laying around doesn't prove anything.

Ayn Rand happily took her Social Security check, and used Medicare.

Now, why on Earth would Disability claims be skyrocketing? It wouldn't have anything to do with an aging population, right? I mean, demographic facts, that's Commie-nism!

thunderlips11 says

It wouldn't have anything to do with an aging population, right?

It's because getting on disability is easier than getting a job. Just watch a few episodes of Judge Judy and you will see her questions plenty of able bodies people on disability.

Bap33 says

I did read on here, and on the net, and in the paper, and saw on Fox, that CONSERVATIVES give more to PRIVATE public help "programs" than self-profressed non-conservatives do. Ever heard that?

You've garbled the claim, and there's little reason to believe this assertion:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/21/study-conservatives-and-liberals-are-equally-charitable-but-they-give-to-different-charities/

"Charity" is what is usually said, not "private help". Conservatives are more likely to donate to religious groups, and liberals more so to secular ones. You donated to build a new roof on your megachurch, meanwhile there's a veteran sitting on the stoop begging for money great work!

Vicente says

"Charity" is what is usually said, not "private help". And as pointed out in
this article quite a lot of tithing and church donations may not go directly to
helping individuals. You donated to build a new roof on your megachurch,
meanwhile there's a veteran sitting on the stoop begging for money great
work!

This is an excellent point. When T. Boone Pickens gives $165M to Oklahoma State Football, that is hardly "charity." It is leveraging taxpayer money (because he would have payed taxes on a portion of this donation) to specifically benefit one portion of the state's budget.

Cronyism at its finest.

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Wednesday, October 16, 2013 __ Level is 98.1

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes indeed, go here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

what lib program is not funded by taxpayers or Soros?

I get my disability check and *POW*! Down to Pants n' Nat!