patrick.net

AverageBear says

HydroCabron says

This is heueuge - could be the final blow to the Obama dictatorship.

Everywhere I go, people are seething over the IRS scandal, Benghazi!, and the Long Form.

Once they are told by Roger Ailes to be angry about this, it's the end for Obama.

You are pretty smarmy on discounting some big flaws in Obama. The trick is, can you actually point to something useful that Obama has actually done since being elected president?

You're not hearing me: it ain't Obama that this is about.

Obama is just a black Reagan, eager to kill Americans to save face (Afghanistan), although, in fairness to Reagan, he pulled ground forces out of Beirut after the barracks bombing in '83. Obama should be in jail, if not for the NSA, then for Gitmo. And the bank bailouts were a moment of shame for America.

But that's beside the point.

The real issue is wingnuts who feel outrage at monument closures, instead of veterans benefit cuts, and get angry at exactly what they're told to get angry about.

What makes your blood boil: Terry Schiavo and flag burning, or spending $3 trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan with nothing to show for it?

HydroCabron says

Sounds as if you were there. This is a serviceable description of what
happened.

Many carried Confederate flags,

Many carried Confederate flags? Now you are just making shit up. I've read all the liberal bed wetting over this dude and the flag, and they could only find one guy. Surely you can find a bunch of pictures of other guys if "many carried" that flag - right?

Now I seem to remember how the media and libs were very careful not to label the OWS and anti-war movements as a bunch of Commies just because they had ton of hammer and sickle flags at their rallies.

But liberal hacks got to do what they do. Even if that means putting up barriers in front of WWII vets in wheelchairs and then calling them a bunch of racists.

Charming bunch you guys!

edvard2 says

AverageBear says

Sure.

1: Obamacare

2: Saved auto industry. To date US auto industry is doing better than it has done in decades. Republicans wanted it to go bankrupt.

3: Expanded pell grants and got bacnks out of federal student loans

4: increased spending on veterens, passed new GI bill worth 78 Billion dollars. Created tax credits for businesses who hire veterans.

5: Passed credit card laws that stops CC companies from raising rates without a notice.

6: Expanded stem cell research. This was restricted under Bush.

7: Not being an outright braying wingnut who hates science, along with pretty much every institution but the NRA, churches, and the military.
8: Having just enough brains to understand that in an economic collapse, federal spending should increase to compensate for cratering state and local spending.
9: Believing that the world is older than 6,000 years
10: Believing in the competent administration of disaster relief

socal2 says

Many carried Confederate flags? Now you are just making shit up. I've read all the liberal bed wetting over this dude and the flag, and they could only find one guy.

You're right: very few in the conservative movement ever wave the Confederate Flag, which is why it has never, ever adorned the bumpers of pickup trucks or the cupolas of southern state houses.

After all, I'm sure that the patriots of the GOP would never countenance racist traitors in their ranks, now would they?

HydroCabron says

You're right:

See that's not so hard.

Please refrain from making shit up in the future.

Thanks

This is the only thing the right wing media seems to be able to come up with:

" Obama shut down the veteran's memorial!!! OMG!!!!!"

Yeah- just keep repeating the same thing and maybe enough on the right will do like they always do and "Squawk!, Squawk!" repeat it, verbatim as their one and only means to try and distill the fact that nope, sorry, the GOP was most responsible for shutting down the government and guess what? The polls show that most Americans ain't buying those on the right somehow pinning this on the president.

Like I said before- I don't even need to say anything. What's happening is the direct fault of the GOP and they will be suffering from the bad PR this will create for their party.

edvard2 says

Like I said before- I don't even need to say anything. What's happening is
the direct fault of the GOP and they will be suffering from the bad PR this will
create for their party.

Direct fault of the GOP? They only control 1/3 of the US government.

Democrats have controlled no less than 2/3 of the US government since 2006 - how come they don't get blamed for the "Great Recession"?

Just like with Bush and his party getting all the blame, people 10-20 years from now will only remember that Obama was President during one of the worst economic periods in our history.

freak80 says

New Renter says

Don't forget to hit up your soon-to-be former municipality for your free one way bus ticket!

You think the Village of Horseheads, NY would buy one for me? ;-)

Depends how much of a pain in the ass you are.

Tim Aurora says

Direct fault of the GOP? They only control 1/3 of the US government.

Democrats have controlled no less than 2/3 of the US government since 2006 - how come they don't get blamed for the "Great Recession"?

Just like with Bush and his party getting all the blame, people 10-20 years from now will only remember that Obama was President during one of the worst economic periods in our history.

Believe you are misunderstanding what I wrote. What we are seeing here is basically a repeat of what happened in the 90's when the GOP last decided to pull this stunt and use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip: Prior to the shutdown they had basically taken over the house and had some substantial public figures, like Newt Gingrich for example. Had they stayed the course, things probably would have worked out better for them.

But instead they used the debt ceiling as a bargaining tool and the general public placed more blame on the GOP than the Democratic party and the result was that the GOP lost a LOT of their influence at that time as a result.

edvard2 says

Believe you are misunderstanding what I wrote. What we are seeing here is
basically a repeat of what happened in the 90's when the GOP last decided to
pull this stunt and use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip: Prior to the
shutdown they had basically taken over the house and had some substantial public
figures, like Newt Gingrich for example. Had they stayed the course, things
probably would have worked out better for them.

But instead they used the debt ceiling as a bargaining tool and the general
public placed more blame on the GOP than the Democratic party and the result was
that the GOP lost a LOT of their influence at that time as a result.

I get all the perception bit. But I am less in this trying to win points for my team, but what is good for our country.

I do believe the "stunts" that Republicans pulled in the mid 1990's helped pave the way for welfare reform and even helped bring about our temporary surpluses under Clinton. (That along with Clinton benefiting from the peace dividened from his predecessors with the end of the Cold War and implosion of Communism).

It is just like the stunt of "sequester" this past year has helped shrink the deficit under Obama in the last few months.

edvard2 says

The reason I don't agree with that assessment is because it really wouldn't matter whether this was a liberal or a conservative-backed program: no matter what it is, there will ALWAYS be people who abuse whatever system happens to be. That's human nature. But furthermore, its grossly out of reason to hold the small minority of those who do in fact mis-use welfare and then proclaim that ALL of those on welfare are the same.

I don't think it's just a small portion of people abusing welfare benefits. Particularly when half the people on "disability" could easily work a job, I don't think 50% is a small portion. Other programs are probably not nearly as bad.

Plus I don't like guaranteeing people a minimum standard of living that's actually quite high by world standards.

edvard2 says

2: Saved auto industry. To date US auto industry is doing better than it has done in decades. Republicans wanted it to go bankrupt.

"Saving" the auto industry? By that, do you mean stealing for the UAW? Ask the Delphi non-union folks about your savior...

....."The Treasury sold nearly 20 percent of its remaining shares in General Motors Co. in the first three months of the year, the Detroit automaker disclosed Thursday.

The Treasury, which initially held 60.8 percent of GM as part of the U.S. $49.5 billion bailout, now owns just 16.4 percent, or 241.7 million shares. In December, the Treasury sold GM 200 million shares of its stake for $5.5 billion to reduce its stake to 300 million shares.

In total, Treasury has recouped $30.6 billion. At current trading prices, Treasury would lose around $10 billion on its GM bailout......"

http://michellemalkin.com/2012/06/12/finally-delphi-workers-break-through-obama-stonewall-on-uaw-bail/

...."I have been reporting to you about how President Obama’s UAW bailout threw tens of thousands of nonunion autoworkers under the bus since September 2010. It’s the real-life horror story of some 20,000 white-collar workers at Delphi, a leading auto parts company spun off from GM a decade ago. As Washington rushed to nationalize the U.S. auto industry with $80 billion in taxpayer “rescue” funds and avoid contested court termination proceedings, the White House auto team schemed with Big Labor bosses to preserve UAW members’ costly pension funds by shafting their nonunion counterparts. In addition, the nonunion pensioners lost all of their health and life insurance benefits. The abused workers — most from hard-hit northeast Ohio, Michigan and neighboring states — had devoted decades of their lives as secretaries, technicians, engineers and sales employees at Delphi/GM. Some workers have watched up to 70 percent of their pensions vanish.".....

HydroCabron says

7: Not being an outright braying wingnut who hates science, along with pretty much every institution but the NRA, churches, and the military.

8: Having just enough brains to understand that in an economic collapse, federal spending should increase to compensate for cratering state and local spending.

9: Believing that the world is older than 6,000 years

10: Believing in the competent administration of disaster relief

^^^^ = unhinged + projector

edvard2 says

3: Expanded pell grants and got bacnks out of federal student loans

You think this is a good thing? Really? I can see how this will be used as a weapon, just like the IRS is currently used.

'So much wrong': Aetna CEO blasts Obamacare tech debacle

Like I said, Obama care = shit. Don't believe me? How 'bout Aetna's view of things?

Words/phrases that resonate within this article:
- "There is so much wrong"
- Debacle
- problems
- missing deadlines
- On the fly

Oh, and this isn't any Fox/Rush site either. It's your good 'ol low-ratings CNBC... Enjoy...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101110161

....."Aetna's CEO gave a harshly critical review Monday of the federal government's Obamacare marketplace, saying, "There's so much wrong, you just don't know what's broken until you get a lot more of it fixed."

Asked on CNBC's "Squawk Box" if he knew that the rollout of Healthcare.gov would be problematic, the insurer's CEO, Mark Bertolini, said his giant company's role as an alpha tester for the system gave it a sense of how many problems the health insurance marketplace faced on the eve of its launch.

"We were pretty nervous as we got further along," Bertolini said. "As they started missing deadlines, we were pretty convinced it was going to be a difficult launch."

(Read more: Rx for Obamacare? Feds mull rebuilding website)

His fears have been realized, he said, and the technological debacle seen at Healthcare.gov is one similar to just the handful he's witnessed in his career.

"It's nothing you ever like to repeat," Bertolini said. "Because it's very difficult. I've been there. It's career-ending in a lot of cases." ........

HydroCabron says

Time dilation is definitely a thing. The GPS satellite clocks have a rolling adjustment to compensate for both general and special relativistic effects.

Time dilation has also been measured in supersonic aircraft using precise clocks.

edvard2 says

5: Passed credit card laws that stops CC companies from raising rates without a notice.

I'm guessing this was a bi-partisan effort that Obama signed into law. Any links?

AverageBear says

"Saving" the auto industry? By that, do you mean stealing for the UAW? Ask the Delphi non-union folks about your savior...

Believe you need to look back on history as well as current performance. GM and Chrysler would have gone bankrupt, no question, had there not been a government bailout. We are talking about an industry that employees millions of people and generates untold billions of dollars of revenue per year.

As we now see, all three of the Big three automakers are doing exceptionally well. GM not only has markedly improved sales in the US, but they now do even better overseas. That's right- they sell cars overseas now.

So my question for all of the righty-wingers who think GM and Chrysler should have failed, what would that have done to the economy? You guys wail about waste and costs. Had those millions of autoworkers been lost then suddenly we would have had many, many millions of people instantly on the unemployment system. That versus the majority of those people staying at work and now contributing to the national economy.

And don't say we're alone in doing this: There isn't a single automaker in the world that has not at some point either been subsidized, bailed out, or otherwise helped along by their respective governments. AverageBear says

You think this is a good thing? Really? I can see how this will be used as a weapon, just like the IRS is currently used.

Yes. I was one of those people who used a Pell grant to get through college. There are millions of people who use them and they are a means for people to be able to actually afford college. As far as getting banks out of federal loans, that means that they got financial interests whom viewed student loans as a profit making endeavor out of that business. Again- as a means to in some ways limit the costs of college. There are still MANY things that need to be done to improve its affordability. Pell grants are just one of those ways and it works very well.

freak80 says

Unfortunately, the language of economics is most commonly known as "bullshitting."

The problem is that economics isn't a science. It's supposed to be but economics refuse to use the scientific method and thus economics is a religion.

Wouldn't it be nice if economic theories were subject to the scientific method and any theory, such as Supply Side Economics, was discarded when it failed to relate to observations.

AverageBear says

I'm guessing this was a bi-partisan effort that Obama signed into law. Any links?

It was his presidency in which this law was passed. Nuff said. Either way, this President has certainly gotten more done, and of those- better things done- than his predecessor. Despite having a basically outdated, and soon to be less relevant GOP whom have acted like adult babies the second they lost the election in 08'

Call it Crazy says

Hey Eddie, give it a rest!!! You were in middle school in the 90's, so you're clueless on what happened..... Time to switch from Mother Jones to the Disney channel....

Sorry man, I was in college back then and well-aware of the situation. Like I said.... people like can make cute lil' posts all day long till' the cows come home about "Liberal this, liberal that, its all Obama's fault, blah blah blah"...

And guess what? They are simply wasting their time. The GOP will still lose.

They lost in 08
They lost in 12
They have lost the Obamacare thing
They are losing over the shutdown
And they will continue to lose. Regardless of what their shills say...

Dan8267 says

freak80 says

Unfortunately, the language of economics is most commonly known as "bullshitting."

The problem is that economics isn't a science. It's supposed to be but economics refuse to use the scientific method and thus economics is a religion.

Wouldn't it be nice if economic theories were subject to the scientific method and any theory, such as Supply Side Economics, was discarded when it failed to relate to observations.

That's not true. There are plenty of countries (Singapore,Chile, Poland etc.) which mainly went with systems of supply-side economics and have been doing very well since then. I agree that it's hard to prove but equally hard to disprove. I'd say that it beats turning $100 into $200 via a printing press and claiming you have bettered the economy.

Dan8267 says

Wouldn't it be nice if economic theories were subject to the scientific method and any theory, such as Supply Side Economics, was discarded when it failed to relate to observations.

Heretic!

New Renter says

Depends how much of a pain in the ass you are.

I'll open up some fire hydrants. And maybe leave a bag of flaming poo on the mayor's doorstep.

zzyzzx says

I don't think it's just a small portion of people abusing welfare benefits. Particularly when half the people on "disability" could easily work a job,

Making things up to prove a point doesn't really make the point very valid. SO you "think" half of the people on welfare are able to work? Hmmm... Curious how that conclusion was arrived at other than just being pulled out of the air.

freak80 says

Bigsby says

He is very deadpan though. It's pretty easy to take what he says literally if you forget what he really thinks.

True. I guess that's why someone came up with the term "Poe's Law."

I'm not sure how this could be seen as anything but sarcasm:
HydroCabron says

But this is the only proper time to cut spending radically: a Democrat is in the White House.

Back in the 2003-2005 time frame, when Republicans had the White House, the House, and the Senate, was no time to cut federal spending

edvard2 says

What we are seeing here is basically a repeat of what happened in the 90's when the GOP last decided to pull this stunt and use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip

Ah it just hit me, this is a medical problem not political. The GOP has developed dementia like many of it's aging voters. It can't remember that last fall down the stairs and consequent broken hip, and sees no reason to avoid the stairs.

Quigley says

The language of the universe may well be mathematics, but this is not to say that our current understanding of math is adequate to describe it. Just as bodies in motion required the invention of calculus to describe, the inner truths of the universe may require additional advances to even comprehend, let alone describe and predict.

Doesn't matter. Economics still involves mostly bullshitting. Math works, whether it be in theory or practice. No human emotions/characteristics factor in.

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Tuesday, October 15, 2013 __ Level is 96.8

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes indeed, go here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

Ok. So what the fuck is a "thing"??

HydroCabron says

Time dilation is definitely a thing.

edvard2 says

zzyzzx says

I don't think it's just a small portion of people abusing welfare benefits. Particularly when half the people on "disability" could easily work a job,

Making things up to prove a point doesn't really make the point very valid. SO you "think" half of the people on welfare are able to work? Hmmm... Curious how that conclusion was arrived at other than just being pulled out of the air.

100% of those on welfare are able to work. The 50% refers to those on SSI and state disability programs.

dodgerfanjohn says

100% of those on welfare are able to work

I can make up crap too. Its easy.
100% of the population LOVES anchovies on their pizzas. True cuz; I said it.

anonymous says

The Nobel economics prize has brought public attention to the Efficient Market Hypothesis.

The hypothesis might work but there is no "price discovery"when there is artificially manipulated interest ratesx and government regulations and subsidies

Conventional wisdom says our own homes are a great place to invest money because the value of a house will inevitably appreciate.

One of Shiller's most eye-popping findings actually says quite the opposite: Historically, between 1890 and 1990, the actual rate of return on owning a home has been virtually non-existent.

We think housing is a great investment.

Shiller says it's not.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/housing/2013/10/economist-who-just-won-nobel-prize-thinks-housing-terrible-investment/7240/

Dan8267 says

The problem is that economics isn't a science. It's supposed to be but economics refuse to use the scientific method and thus economics is a religion.

Not all sciences are exact sciences. The economy is a black box masking a fantastically complex reality and all we have are a few observations on the outside. Economics make theories and these may be far from capturing the entire mechanism but it doesn't mean they are useless as long as they capture enough of it.

A theory doesn't have to be perfect to be useful. Most of the time Newton's theory of gravity is sufficient to explain reality.

Unfortunately economics are subject to politics and vested interests, which is why it is so hard for it to be purely objective.

John Bailo says

We think housing is a great investment.

Shiller says it's not.

All signs are that we are in an historical abnormal period with regard to housing prices.

Once all the printed money starts getting spent, inflation will hammer housing prices.

Heraclitusstudent says

All signs are that we are in an historical abnormal period with regard to housing prices.

To which signs do you refer?

Heraclitusstudent says

Once all the printed money starts getting spent, inflation will hammer housing prices.

Why would inflation not hit housing as well as everything else?

I guess I was wrong:
http://gma.yahoo.com/walmart-stuck-most-food-stamp-shopping-spree-211120842--abc-news-topstories.html

Walmart is stuck with the bill for letting food stamp queens go nuts with funny money in its stores! Hurray for the taxpayer! I guess

tatupu70 says

Why would inflation not hit housing as well as everything else?

Because they are already inflated.

Heraclitusstudent says

tatupu70 says

Why would inflation not hit housing as well as everything else?

Because they are already inflated.

Housing payments are secondary to food and gas. And the banks have already shown they won't evict immediately.