patrick.net

justme says

CaptainShuddup says

If we had a "Single payer" it would be nothing more than a Monopoly that would be free to charge at will while they enjoy a protected market without any competition.

So basically, you are asking for single payer + death panels?

(sarcasm alert)

What he wants is free medical care.

ALL developed countries have single-payer system funded by a payroll tax just like social security and medicare. No one in all other developed countries worry about not being able to afford medical care at any time during their life. Nobody ever goes bankrupt because of medical bills unlike in USA where medical bills is the number one reason for personal bankruptcy. EVERYONE IS COVERED FROM BIRTH TILL DEATH FOR ALL MEDICAL NEEDS and it costs those countries about 8% of their GDP vs 17% in USA which still does NOT COVER ANYBODY FOR ALL THEIR MEDICAL NEEDS DURING THEIR LIFETIME !
The difference is that there is NO INSURANCE COMPANY involved in health care. They ALL have National Health Insurance administered by their governments. NONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES WOULD EVER THINK OF CHANGING TO USA SYSTEM ! Just compare with Canada ! Sure there are delays and abuses in their system too but EVERYONE IS COVERED FOR EVERYTHING FOR LIFE at half GDP cost !

It's never been a better time to convict a realtor!

And people wonder why the economy is shit. Spending half your income on rent is like having half your income cut. You can't spend it on goods and services that lead to the virtuous cycle of production and consumption.

Instead of complaining, they should just pull themselves up by bootstraps and use some work ethic to construct a cardboard box or a tent under a highway overpass. In return for their puritanical diligence they will always breathe the outdoor air and enjoy unlimited square footage.

CaptainShuddup says

Teaparty in 2014 and 2016, they seem to be only ones in the last 8 years that
hasn't lied.

Death panels and Kenya? Is that lying or just playin dirty?

HydroCabron is Kochel 271 says

I betbgamall4 says

HydroCabron says

Not possible.

Reagan would never have done that. That would have been a doctrinal deviation.

But that is what happened....so what do you mean?

I bet you believe that Bush's tax cuts didn't generate an economic boom either, and that Saddam didn't have WMD.

You probably don't even remember John Wayne and Reagan, fighting the Japs at Tarawa!

Bush's tax cuts are the only reason I was able to save up for a down payment although prices went up cause a bunch of other people saved as well so I dunno if it was a net benefit but god bless his benevolent soul anyway.

If only She could turn back time.

I'd write everyone a note that argued with me from 2008 all the way to October 1st 2013 about how great Obama was and I was on the wrong side of History. I'd write do not open until October 1st 2013 on the envelope, and just hand it to them. I wouldn't even as passionately argue with them. I've learned something the Republicans knew all along. "You can't fix stupid".

I'd just write a note that says...

"Obama won and we "ALL" lost."

bob2356 says

What he wants is free medical care.

There's no such thing as free. I would just rather our tax dollars go to shit that would have a better lasting impact. Like healing the sick, with out a billing system or profit center in the center of the operation. Food security should come from prudent regulation of commodity markets, not in the form of a plastic card. That the Grocery lobby lobbied to increase food stamps so they can just raise the price. While those in the middle class, that don't qualify for SNAP can just make do with out, while the Liberal Fantasy camp gets to feel like they made a difference because the middle class is eating an involuntary poor diet, while the poor load up a grocery cart or two.

The growers asscn, Grocers asscn, food processors, and all those involved in the production and delivery of all things food, especially the commodity investors. Really wants to thank the Liberals and Obama from the bottom of their greedy disgustingly evil little hearts.

Anyone do the numbers on how much money congress members have leveraged in the energy and food commodities?

I would really like to see who owns Swift meat packing stocks, that the Chinese now own a monopoly of all raw pork products made in this country.

Single payer would be bsically medicare for all. but they would have more leverage than medicare has now. They would dictate what they are willing to pay for a lot of services.

Canad has single payer. Their doctors and hospitals are for the most part private enterprises.

It's true that if we did single payer, we might not do it as well, by trying to offer supplemental policies to satisfy the rich who want gold plated coverage, and to overcome arguments about excessive rationing or paranoia about death panels.

But yeah, Canada as single payer, that is what people mean when they say single payer.

If only the captain would do a tiny bit of homework before he starts in with his fiction basedcomments.

if we didn't have an idjit like Bush- a lying, cheat like Obama would have never been elected.

Those botox laden oldsters sure wind up with a creepy look.
Like they are laced with formaldehyde and ready for the viewing....

her whole face should look like that wedge of canals on the lower right chin..

Single payer systems work elsewhere when everyone contributes the same amount of money each month, including their unemployed.
Sort of like a utility payment.

SoftShell says

wedge of canals

That's her hair, not crags.

It's even worse, Cher put Obama way up there on her "horrible list" with botched plastic surgery, leaking breast implants, and trout pouts that look like bee stings.

She would toss her head and scowl petulantly at him, but her neck and face have been paralyzed for years with botox and are held up by hard shellac makeup. She's ready for the wax museum with only modest retouching.

Call it Crazy says

HEY YOU says

Benghazi-9/11 death & injury score. Bush & Republicans leading by wide margin.

I'm sure the House of Republicans will massively increase spending for security for all Americans,globally. That should be simple. They spent a few bucks on two unfunded wars.

What are you, racist??? Don't you want to give Obama all those points for the civilians he's killed with drone strikes??

It's just terrible that Congress cut the embassy security budget. Tragic really.

I bet if they examined any of the other embassy attacks they'd find the same.

Damn yer right! Maybe a haircut?
JodyChunder says

SoftShell says

wedge of canals

That's her hair, not crags.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh, Poor Hollywood Baby.... Some learn slower than others....

sonny figured it out long ago...

bgamall4 says

Funny but then vote for a war mongering offshoring of money man like Romney? Are you serious?

you want to go down the list of people in SV who actual revolutionized
outsourcing/off shoring connected/supported Obama...

you want to go there ?

SoftShell says

Those botox laden oldsters sure wind up with a creepy look.

Like they are laced with formaldehyde and ready for the viewing....

what happened to her face?

CaptainShuddup says

There's no such thing as free. I would just rather our tax dollars go to shit that would have a better lasting impact. Like healing the sick, with out a billing system or profit center in the center of the operation

So you are advocating a "socialist" medical system? Or do you have no clue what you want other than to complain?

carrieon says

Single payer systems work elsewhere when everyone contributes the same amount of money each month, including their unemployed.

Sort of like a utility payment.

Do your homework. Most other countries health care is paid through taxes.

humanity says

Single payer would be bsically medicare for all. but they would have more leverage than medicare has now. They would dictate what they are willing to pay for a lot of services.

No not at all. Canada is the only country that does it that way. Most other countries employ doctors directly. This eliminates the huge cost of doctors having to track billing for services and getting paid for it. Doctors are simply paid a salary or given a fixed amount per patient per year.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

So? No one has yet denied that Lesbian Amazons Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton led the Al Qaeda brigade that wasted the embassy, firing upon fleeing Americans with AKs and kissing each other when a dead American hit the dirt as they fled in abject terror. No one.

As conspiracy theories go, I like it! I heard that Michelle threw down her AK, embedded the gay ambassador's face into her massive, muscled Amazon buttocks and twerked him to death for Hillary's viewing pleasure.

bob2356 says

Canada is the only country that does it that way.

No, others do too. Taiwan for example:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/april/jonathan_cohn_interv.php

Here is my favorite part:
"JC: How did you decide on that model - the single payer? Why did you go in that direction?

MC: Well, we sent our people around the world to learn their programs, including the United States. Actually, the program is modeled after Medicare. And there are so many similarities - other than that our program covers all of the population, and Medicare covers only the elderly. It seems the way to go to have social insurance…"

So other countries are copying our own Medicare system and we are wondering what the best way to handle health care is here. Hmmmm...

Single-payer experiment will probably be as successful as Obamacare has been . . . i.e. another abysmal failure. Colin is obviously playing the good soldier here faithfully marching to a drum beat that will cost dearly to his own credibility. It's like the poor British soldiers in WWI following orders to go over the top straight into machine gun fire and die!

Colin's analysis is missing a crucial size factor: the US is much much bigger than each of the countries in that list. Most of those countries in that list have less than 50mil people, some less than 5 million (less than NYC alone), whereas the US population is over 300million! Bigger and more tiers of bureaucratic monopolies breed inefficiency and corruption. The single-payer systems in the world comparable to the US in size are that of Russia, China and India, none of which has a decent medical system for the vast majority of their population served by that single-payer system; only the cash-and-carry sector in those countries seem to deliver decent service to those who can afford it.

The largest country in Colin's list is Germany, at 79Million population, about 1/4 the size of the US. Their medical spending is 11.6% of GDP, significantly higher the 7% average for most European countries quoted here (averaged by country count, not by head count; a very misleading number). As you can see, size does matter when it comes to bureaucratic inefficiency, in a very bad way. In any case, the 17% of GDP in the US includes a lot of "export" service for foreigners coming to the US for medical care on cash-and-carry basis; that's actually a money maker for the US economy.

Waitingtobuy says

No, others do too. Taiwan for example:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/april/jonathan_cohn_interv.php

Here is my favorite part:

"JC: How did you decide on that model - the single payer? Why did you go in that direction?

MC: Well, we sent our people around the world to learn their programs, including the United States. Actually, the program is modeled after Medicare. And there are so many similarities - other than that our program covers all of the population, and Medicare covers only the elderly. It seems the way to go to have social insurance…"

So other countries are copying our own Medicare system and we are wondering what the best way to handle health care is here. Hmmmm..

I forgot about Tawain, they changed the system several times in the last 20 years. They copied Medicare and are trying to deal with all the same problems as Medicare has, but it's starting to get away from them. They have been borrowing for the last several years to cover shortfalls in funding. Fee for service has led to large amounts of billing fraud. Short staffing to keep up profits has comprimised care. Advertising to encourage medical over usage is rampant.

http://www.thrf.org.tw/EN/Page_Show.asp?Page_ID=124

Not a great example or a ringing endorsement.

Reality says

The single-payer systems in the world comparable to the US in size are that of Russia, China and India, none of which has a decent medical system for the vast majority of their population served by that single-payer system;

What a load of crap. These are poor countries. The Us spends $8600 per capita per year for health care. China spends $224 dollars per capita, india $29, and Russia $609. It's pretty amazing how much health care these people get for such a small amount of money.

Reality says

In any case, the 17% of GDP in the US includes a lot of "export" service for foreigners coming to the US for medical care on cash-and-carry basis; that's actually a money maker for the US economy.

You want to provide some documentation on exactly what percentage of health care spending in the US is "export"?

Reality says

Bigger and more tiers of bureaucratic monopolies breed inefficiency and corruption.

So that's why those small lean private insurance companies have so much lower administrative costs than bureaucratic monopolies like Medicare. I am now enlightened. Oh wait I forgot, the insurance companies have much higher administrative costs, never mind.

bgamall4 says

Insurance scam isn't it? Medicare is the way to go for the nation.

No, the VA would be a much better example. Doctors on salary, no billing, no fee for service, no incentives for fraud or over treatment. Never ever going to happen. Way too much profit in the current system leading to way too much campaign money for politicos to protect the status quo.

The folks who are getting the free stuff don't like
The folks who are paying for the free stuff, because
The folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer
Afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.

And the folks who are paying for the free stuff
Want the free stuff to stop.

And the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more
Free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!

Now... The people who are forcing the people who pay
For the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING
The free stuff that the people who are PAYING for the
Free stuff are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.

So... The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been
Convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the
Free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay
For their free stuff and giving them the free stuff in the first place.

We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there
Are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the
Free stuff.

Now understand this.

All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere
Between 200 and 250 years after being founded.

The reason?

The voters figured out they could vote themselves money
From the treasury by electing people who promised to give
Them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.

The United States officially became a Republic in 1776,
236 years ago.�

The number of people now getting free stuff
Outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff.

Failure to change that spells the end of the United States
As we know it.

After mistaking protein strands for collagen deprived free radical bombarded elastin fibers i feel i'm not qualified to answer your question.

Mark D says

SoftShell says

Those botox laden oldsters sure wind up with a creepy look.

Like they are laced with formaldehyde and ready for the viewing....

what happened to her face?

bob2356 says

What a load of crap. These are poor countries. The Us spends $8600 per capita per year for health care. China spends $224 dollars per capita, india $29, and Russia $609. It's pretty amazing how much health care these people get for such a small amount of money.

A patent drug may cost $10,000 per month in the US but only $10 in India! because that country allows generics maker to ignore patents. An X-ray in the US can cost as much as $500, a CT scan as much as $5000, whereas in India, China and Russia, the comparable procedure can be as little as 1/10 to 1/100 the price. So the numbers you cite are quite meaningless.

bob2356 says

In any case, the 17% of GDP in the US includes a lot of "export" service for foreigners coming to the US for medical care on cash-and-carry basis; that's actually a money maker for the US economy.

You want to provide some documentation on exactly what percentage of health care spending in the US is "export"?

Medical tourism is currently a $10+billion market (2012), and expected to double this decade.

bob2356 says

Reality says

Bigger and more tiers of bureaucratic monopolies breed inefficiency and corruption.

So that's why those small lean private insurance companies have so much lower administrative costs than bureaucratic monopolies like Medicare. I am now enlightened. Oh wait I forgot, the insurance companies have much higher administrative costs, never mind.

The "private" insurance companies in the medical insurance business are not small or lean. They are part of the national monopoly/oligopoly causing the problem; the insurance companies actually wrote the Obamacare law! in case you did not know already. Those "private" companies are the ones running the government! for those idiots who believe government coercive power is in or can be in the hands of lowly peons like you and me. When the government officials decide which software company to hire, the alums of the wife of the president gets hired, at your expense! So you and your employer get taxed into job elimination.

bob2356 says

bgamall4 says

Insurance scam isn't it? Medicare is the way to go for the nation.

No, the VA would be a much better example. Doctors on salary, no billing, no fee for service, no incentives for fraud or over treatment. Never ever going to happen. Way too much profit in the current system leading to way too much campaign money for politicos to protect the status quo.

Would that be the same VA system that produced the Walter Reed Hospital, where Cheney got the best repair to his broken heart, whereas wounded soldiers coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq got consigned to dilapidated rooms infested with mice and roaches? hmm, since neither condition is attributed to their respective incomes, such real life inequality may actually translate to lower income inequality for the dimwits as neither are paying the bills. On the slave plantation, both the slave owner and the slaves have zero income, so they must be equal according to the numbskulls.

The price menu, against which one can choose to buy or not buy, is what gives people the right to choose and consequently freedom and improving living standards over time. On the slave plantation, the slaves are given free healthcare, free education, free housing, free food and free clothing . . . all at the discretion the plantation owner of course.

Tenured doctors won't work any more diligently than tenured professors. How well have the latter worked out for the millions of unemployed new college graduates?

The problem with our medical system is the government enforced monopoly through license requirement on rendering service. If each city could only have one restaurant, and people are not allowed to cook at home for family members or friends or even oneself, and all food ingredients have to go through multi-billion dollar suitability trials before being allowed on the market, food too would be incredibly expensive!

Socialist politicians talk big about one payer health care, why? because majority of the people do not want to pay out of their own pocket for anything, that's why the majority are losers in life.

Do you know that in one payer health care system you cannot "jump the queue" for treatment even if you have money to pay for it yourself? Why? because the losers want to press you down to their level.

However, the moment these losers or socialist politicians need elective or special medical treatment and they have the money to pay for it themselves, they will fly out of their country and pay for the treatment.

This is no bullshit, google Canada Politicians Medical Treatment for example, you will see many socialist politicians flied out of Canada to USA to get treatment.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

I heard Hillary used Ambassador Stevens' disembodied arm for a dildo while Michelle twerk-decapitated Stevens.

Clearly we haven't had enough examination of this VERY SERIOUS EVENT that killed 4 Americans.

I propose we dedicate an entire phalanx of Congressmen to a standing committee, give them a decade and fund it to the tune of a trillion dollars, so we can get to the bottom of every embassy attack made since 1976. I'm pretty sure if enough GOP Congressmen spend enough time dissecting this, they will PROVE that the Democrats are the ringleaders in a conspiracy of embassy attacks.

This goes WAY deeper than you can imagine, clearly Jimmy Carter is the genesis of all this with his CIA operation to destabilize Iran. Billy Carter was disguised, and right in the thick of the "students" that took the hostages.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

So? No one has yet denied that Lesbian Amazons Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton led the Al Qaeda brigade

This is the key fact.

Most suspicious that the White House website does not specifically use the terms "lesbian," "scissors,", "orgy of Satanic necrophilia", and "ambassadorial corpse dildo" in any point-by-point rebuttal of the allegations.

It would take so little effort to deny these allegations, and yet they are silent. Speaks volumes.

And George Bush was the greatest leader in the history of the World.

Dan8267 says

And people wonder why the economy is shit. Spending half your income on rent is like having half your income cut. You can't spend it on goods and services that lead to the virtuous cycle of production and consumption.

Such high rents SHOULD encourage new construction. More housing SHOULD mediate further rent increases.

That us unless new construction is not possible either politically or physically yet the population continues to grow.

Then you are fucked... Or not if the solution is to institute a zero to one child policy.

My solution?

Mandatory (free) birth control and abortion for anyone unable to qualify for a reproduction permit. Qualification requires savings equivalent to 20% down on the projected lifetime expenditure of each child and an income history proving the ability to pay the rest.

That way the only parents will be multimillionaires and only billionaires will be octomoms. Which is as god intended it to be.

Lets face it, we don't need domestic production of population anymore. Importing a prescreened, motivated and highly educated population is far cheaper and more efficient. Such workers can be allowed to stay throughout their prime working years and deported upon:
*illness (no more expensive healthcare!)
*criminal action (other than for the benefit of the company)
*poor-performance
*"retirement"

Such employees would be free to send money home but only in the form of goods or services provided by US suppliers thus continuing the "virtuous cycle of production and consumption".

As an added bonus this would eliminate the DoED and teacher unions as all education would be private. Workers could focus on work instead of l90% of playgrounds and schools could be re-purposed for condos or in high population areas tiny apartments.

Frustrated wannabe parents are free to adopt pets as surrogates.