patrick.net

"manipulated" doesn't make sense, unless entities are so big as to "corner" a market, which makes no sense. Except possibly in the short run and at extremely great risk of the manipulator losing more than they can afford to lose.

That is,.. at risk of risking more than they are allowed to risk (see clearing firms rules etc).

But sure very short term minor manipulation happens. For example say some trader, who makes markets in gold, keeps on selling to buyers (at prices that give him the edge at the time that he sells but at some point he's short way more contracts than he wants to be.

Well, in a period of light volume he might try to push the price down through key support to elicit some selling at lower prices (good prices for him) where he can cover some of his shorts.

The risk is, what if the number of contracts he can buy at those lower prices is way less than the number of contracts he sold to push the price down. And buyers come in an bid the price right back up. Now he's short more than he was before and lost a lot on his attempt to take prices down to where they don't want to be.

The same concepts apply to the big guys.

Was the oil run up in 2007 manipulation ? Maybe. But I would argue that a lot of people believed in peak oil, which still a real concept at some point, but maybe alternative energy can keep up in such away that by the time oil production is actually dropping, demand will be too.

But my point is that the market was wrong, not because of manipulators, but rather just because it was. Did some big trading operations get long at some point, and bid up the price in front of some big interests that were effectively "short" either literally or in the sense that they had to buy oil ?

Sure. That happens in markets. But in my view the markets just got it wrong.

And then we went in to the great recession where demand fell off a cliff.

I'm not saying manipulation doesn't happen. I think that the money markets are manipulated a little with QE. And there was a time when Gold and Silver were manipulated by the hunt brothers. But they had their heads handed to them.

edvard2 said: The GOP knows they have to keep talking about thing thing for another three years.
Take solace in the fact that some GOP PAC is spending their hard earned money on a Benghazi "documentary film". It will all be for naught if some dark horse candidate emerges in the Democratic primaries and defeats Hilary (or for for some reason, she decides not to run).

The FED would have a keen interest in seeing that the price of gold stays down and they certainly have the ability to do so.

The cause of the crash seems conflicting and debatable, so let's look at motive. What is the motivation to take down the whole plane? To kill at least one person on board. Who? 230 people perished and it is a lot of research to find connections.

Here is the passenger list:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/twa800/list01.htm

Could it be these two?

"For them, Paris held the allure of money to do business. They were insurance company executives. C. Kirk Rhein Jr. was the chief executive of Danielson Holding Company, an insurance company in Manhattan, and he was on Flight 800 with William R. Story, who heads Danielson's main subsidiary, and Charles H. Gray, president of the Midland Financial Group, a Memphis company that was being acquired by Danielson. The merger was to be completed in September, and they were on their way to France to arrange financing."

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/19/nyregion/explosion-aboard-twa-flight-800-victims-lives-beauty-business-sports-scholarship.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Who wants to spend the time trying to figure it out?

bgamall4 says

I am wondering how a fuel tank that is empty can generate that large explosion?

Take an empty gas tank off a car and weld a crease that is damaged.

I won't expect that'd you'd be able to give an answer when your study is finished.

I worked at a machine shop in my younger days. We'd seriously draw straws at who would get to weld the gas tank that day.

For comparison, drop a match in a bucket of gas. Guess what, nothing will happen (I've done it). The match will just extinguish.

Now drop a match in an empty gas can.

Expect a completely different result.

He's suing them because they did not warn him their private parts could be used as weapons.

Indiana Jones says

The cause of the crash seems conflicting and debatable,

No it doesn't. There is nothing to debate.

Indiana Jones says

so let's look at motive.

Why? It was an accident due to mechanical failure. Accidents do not have motives.

And there's cockeyed arms all over the place. That arm in the middle isn't even connected to anything.

Wow bgam, you posted on at least 20 of your own old threads today. What's with that. Feeling ego challenged? Is it a slow day at the asylum? Did they run out of thorazine?

How does the author of this article even have a job anymore? I guess when you're a tabloid rag, no one really cares.

"Correction, 12:26 p.m. ET: An original version of this story said that Reince Priebus referred to Mitt Romney's comments as "racist." He said it "hurts us." Business Insider regrets the error."

http://www.businessinsider.com/reince-priebus-immigration-reform-rnc-steve-king-self-deportation-2013-8

I'm not big Tea Party cheerleader but you need a different link as with this article you don't know when the 24 year old author(Brett LoGiuratois) looking to make a name for himself, is going to have to come in months, or years later, and apologize for falsifying a quote.

Someone wants respect and Liberals don't know what they mean by that. TPB passes out from being shocked.

Teaparty in 2014 and 2016, they seem to be only ones in the last 8 years that hasn't lied. Their track record speaks for its self, in the way the Liberals and the GOP so desperately want's to sweep them under the rug, and calls them names. I especially like the part where you guys liken them to the KKK, even when they have plenty of black supporters, and leaders.

bgamall4 says

Apparently what we get with "competition" is just an oligopoly. I would rather have a government controlled monopoly than an oligopoly that no one controls. Turns out we pay more than any nation in the developed world.

What you said! That is the biggest problem I have with the Dimluted Liberal mentality.

You sonsofbitches would rather have a just as fucked up scenario as apposed to another fucked up scenario, because it frames your Liberal utopian fantasy to suit your skewed view of the world.

I don't give a fuck who benefits from a stacked deck, the point is to not have them in the first place. You're preference really lacks the vision of Leadership and Prudence.

It really seems to me, you guys don't want Socialized medicine, what you would really love is the unabated medical billing machine just as long as there's a Nancy Pelosi in the mix somewhere, making millions at the tax payers expense, while laughing at the stupid American people. Pass it to see what's in it.

CaptainShuddup says

If we had a "Single payer" it would be nothing more than a Monopoly that would be free to charge at will while they enjoy a protected market without any competition.

So basically, you are asking for single payer + death panels?

(sarcasm alert)

justme says

CaptainShuddup says

If we had a "Single payer" it would be nothing more than a Monopoly that would be free to charge at will while they enjoy a protected market without any competition.

So basically, you are asking for single payer + death panels?

(sarcasm alert)

What he wants is free medical care.

ALL developed countries have single-payer system funded by a payroll tax just like social security and medicare. No one in all other developed countries worry about not being able to afford medical care at any time during their life. Nobody ever goes bankrupt because of medical bills unlike in USA where medical bills is the number one reason for personal bankruptcy. EVERYONE IS COVERED FROM BIRTH TILL DEATH FOR ALL MEDICAL NEEDS and it costs those countries about 8% of their GDP vs 17% in USA which still does NOT COVER ANYBODY FOR ALL THEIR MEDICAL NEEDS DURING THEIR LIFETIME !
The difference is that there is NO INSURANCE COMPANY involved in health care. They ALL have National Health Insurance administered by their governments. NONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES WOULD EVER THINK OF CHANGING TO USA SYSTEM ! Just compare with Canada ! Sure there are delays and abuses in their system too but EVERYONE IS COVERED FOR EVERYTHING FOR LIFE at half GDP cost !

It's never been a better time to convict a realtor!

And people wonder why the economy is shit. Spending half your income on rent is like having half your income cut. You can't spend it on goods and services that lead to the virtuous cycle of production and consumption.

Instead of complaining, they should just pull themselves up by bootstraps and use some work ethic to construct a cardboard box or a tent under a highway overpass. In return for their puritanical diligence they will always breathe the outdoor air and enjoy unlimited square footage.

CaptainShuddup says

Teaparty in 2014 and 2016, they seem to be only ones in the last 8 years that
hasn't lied.

Death panels and Kenya? Is that lying or just playin dirty?

HydroCabron is Kochel 271 says

I betbgamall4 says

HydroCabron says

Not possible.

Reagan would never have done that. That would have been a doctrinal deviation.

But that is what happened....so what do you mean?

I bet you believe that Bush's tax cuts didn't generate an economic boom either, and that Saddam didn't have WMD.

You probably don't even remember John Wayne and Reagan, fighting the Japs at Tarawa!

Bush's tax cuts are the only reason I was able to save up for a down payment although prices went up cause a bunch of other people saved as well so I dunno if it was a net benefit but god bless his benevolent soul anyway.

If only She could turn back time.

I'd write everyone a note that argued with me from 2008 all the way to October 1st 2013 about how great Obama was and I was on the wrong side of History. I'd write do not open until October 1st 2013 on the envelope, and just hand it to them. I wouldn't even as passionately argue with them. I've learned something the Republicans knew all along. "You can't fix stupid".

I'd just write a note that says...

"Obama won and we "ALL" lost."

bob2356 says

What he wants is free medical care.

There's no such thing as free. I would just rather our tax dollars go to shit that would have a better lasting impact. Like healing the sick, with out a billing system or profit center in the center of the operation. Food security should come from prudent regulation of commodity markets, not in the form of a plastic card. That the Grocery lobby lobbied to increase food stamps so they can just raise the price. While those in the middle class, that don't qualify for SNAP can just make do with out, while the Liberal Fantasy camp gets to feel like they made a difference because the middle class is eating an involuntary poor diet, while the poor load up a grocery cart or two.

The growers asscn, Grocers asscn, food processors, and all those involved in the production and delivery of all things food, especially the commodity investors. Really wants to thank the Liberals and Obama from the bottom of their greedy disgustingly evil little hearts.

Anyone do the numbers on how much money congress members have leveraged in the energy and food commodities?

I would really like to see who owns Swift meat packing stocks, that the Chinese now own a monopoly of all raw pork products made in this country.

Single payer would be bsically medicare for all. but they would have more leverage than medicare has now. They would dictate what they are willing to pay for a lot of services.

Canad has single payer. Their doctors and hospitals are for the most part private enterprises.

It's true that if we did single payer, we might not do it as well, by trying to offer supplemental policies to satisfy the rich who want gold plated coverage, and to overcome arguments about excessive rationing or paranoia about death panels.

But yeah, Canada as single payer, that is what people mean when they say single payer.

If only the captain would do a tiny bit of homework before he starts in with his fiction basedcomments.

if we didn't have an idjit like Bush- a lying, cheat like Obama would have never been elected.

Those botox laden oldsters sure wind up with a creepy look.
Like they are laced with formaldehyde and ready for the viewing....

her whole face should look like that wedge of canals on the lower right chin..

Single payer systems work elsewhere when everyone contributes the same amount of money each month, including their unemployed.
Sort of like a utility payment.

SoftShell says

wedge of canals

That's her hair, not crags.

It's even worse, Cher put Obama way up there on her "horrible list" with botched plastic surgery, leaking breast implants, and trout pouts that look like bee stings.

She would toss her head and scowl petulantly at him, but her neck and face have been paralyzed for years with botox and are held up by hard shellac makeup. She's ready for the wax museum with only modest retouching.

Call it Crazy says

HEY YOU says

Benghazi-9/11 death & injury score. Bush & Republicans leading by wide margin.

I'm sure the House of Republicans will massively increase spending for security for all Americans,globally. That should be simple. They spent a few bucks on two unfunded wars.

What are you, racist??? Don't you want to give Obama all those points for the civilians he's killed with drone strikes??

It's just terrible that Congress cut the embassy security budget. Tragic really.

I bet if they examined any of the other embassy attacks they'd find the same.

Damn yer right! Maybe a haircut?
JodyChunder says

SoftShell says

wedge of canals

That's her hair, not crags.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh, Poor Hollywood Baby.... Some learn slower than others....

sonny figured it out long ago...

bgamall4 says

Funny but then vote for a war mongering offshoring of money man like Romney? Are you serious?

you want to go down the list of people in SV who actual revolutionized
outsourcing/off shoring connected/supported Obama...

you want to go there ?

SoftShell says

Those botox laden oldsters sure wind up with a creepy look.

Like they are laced with formaldehyde and ready for the viewing....

what happened to her face?

CaptainShuddup says

There's no such thing as free. I would just rather our tax dollars go to shit that would have a better lasting impact. Like healing the sick, with out a billing system or profit center in the center of the operation

So you are advocating a "socialist" medical system? Or do you have no clue what you want other than to complain?

carrieon says

Single payer systems work elsewhere when everyone contributes the same amount of money each month, including their unemployed.

Sort of like a utility payment.

Do your homework. Most other countries health care is paid through taxes.

humanity says

Single payer would be bsically medicare for all. but they would have more leverage than medicare has now. They would dictate what they are willing to pay for a lot of services.

No not at all. Canada is the only country that does it that way. Most other countries employ doctors directly. This eliminates the huge cost of doctors having to track billing for services and getting paid for it. Doctors are simply paid a salary or given a fixed amount per patient per year.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

So? No one has yet denied that Lesbian Amazons Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton led the Al Qaeda brigade that wasted the embassy, firing upon fleeing Americans with AKs and kissing each other when a dead American hit the dirt as they fled in abject terror. No one.

As conspiracy theories go, I like it! I heard that Michelle threw down her AK, embedded the gay ambassador's face into her massive, muscled Amazon buttocks and twerked him to death for Hillary's viewing pleasure.

bob2356 says

Canada is the only country that does it that way.

No, others do too. Taiwan for example:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/april/jonathan_cohn_interv.php

Here is my favorite part:
"JC: How did you decide on that model - the single payer? Why did you go in that direction?

MC: Well, we sent our people around the world to learn their programs, including the United States. Actually, the program is modeled after Medicare. And there are so many similarities - other than that our program covers all of the population, and Medicare covers only the elderly. It seems the way to go to have social insurance…"

So other countries are copying our own Medicare system and we are wondering what the best way to handle health care is here. Hmmmm...