patrick.net

bob2356 says

Call it Crazy says

No, Bob just "thinks" he knows more because he's........

....delusional too, just like the duck....

Ditto.

I'm glad that you agree with that assessment of you!!

Understanding that you have a problem is the first step to recovery!!

Ditto my comment to indigenious not your comment. Try to keep up.

47266 bob2356 2014 Jun 13, 1:40pm

bob2356 says

Nothing like a little critical thinking.

Exactly... The soon you start with that, the better off you'll be!

So your idea of critical thinking is just mouthing whatever blather you find on some internet blog? Perfect.

My question still stands. Why don't fidelitie's numbers jive with Medicare spending? Of course in your world that would mean medicare is lying about their spending. After all fidelity is an IRA company. There is certainly nothing to be gained for them if they juiced up their numbers to scare people into saving more. Nothing at all.

Before you start your idiotic ranting, I don't know or care if fidelity did or didn't twist their numbers. I just know the numbers that you seem to have an almost religious belief in don't add up. Your response so far is strictly trolling 101 shuck and jive. Of course I expect nothing less.

47267 thomaswong.1986 2014 Jun 13, 1:40pm

The world is less violent than it has ever been. It is healthier than it has ever been. It is more tolerant than it has ever been. It is better fed then itâ€™s ever been. It is more educated than itâ€™s ever been."

Clearly not talking about Chicago these days... guess he had no problem

dealing with Coke dealers who shot up his neighborhood...

47268 thomaswong.1986 2014 Jun 13, 1:42pm

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/los-angeles-police-museum-los-angeles?select=jTJqst7ALEQ-TN53V99Jyg#jTJqst7ALEQ-TN53V99Jyg

I'm betting no police forces have actual tanks. Tanks have heavy armour, tracked mobility and an offensive anti-armour cannon.

LAPD come knocking on your door...see the : )

47269 Howdy There 2014 Jun 13, 2:03pm

The smiley face is covering a ram not a cannon. Has armour. Not a tracked vehicle. 1 out of 3 criteria = not a tank.

47270

Strategist 2014 Jun 13, 2:13pm

Boy, I hope Obama has a great round on the golf course this weekend and can shoot maybe 6 over par...

You know, he needs to have PRIORITIES!!!

You left out the economy. Maybe he does not think it's a problem.

47271 thomaswong.1986 2014 Jun 13, 2:17pm

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/american-tanks.asp

Not a tracked vehicle. 1 out of 3 criteria = not a tank.

may not have a big gun... but tanks dont always have tracks to be tanks.

so at best 2 out of 3.

47272 Howdy There 2014 Jun 13, 2:31pm

Tanks do have to have tracks.

Or try googling "what is an army tank".

47273

Ceffer 2014 Jun 13, 2:51pm

Selfish, retard Old Fucks! That money could pay off a MillXYer's education loans.

47274

Ceffer 2014 Jun 13, 2:54pm

Maybe OJ and the son tag teamed them.

47275 thomaswong.1986 2014 Jun 13, 3:05pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_A-40

Tanks do have to have tracks.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/american-tanks.asp

Or try googling "what is an army tank".

have it your way...

47276 Howdy There 2014 Jun 13, 3:21pm

Seriously?

The Antonov A-40, which admittedly doesn't have tracks, was the plane/delivery system and not the tank. The specs identify that the Antonov A-40 carried a Russian T-60, which had tracks. If in doubt, look at the picture which shows a tracked vehicle with a plane attached, or the other way around if you prefer.

Even this obscure example has tracks.

47277 bob2356 2014 Jun 13, 4:03pm

Had they stormed the correct house, the flashbang grenade used as a diversionary device could have saved a police officer's life. This case is evidence that when weapons are used in error there can be devastating effects, but not that the weapons are inappropriate when used properly.

You really need to read up on what these weapons are, where they are going, and how they are being used instead of blindly defending them.

Had they stormed the correct house? This was supposed to be the correct house. The police story has changed several times already. The police team made a buy at the house, an informant made a buy at the house, there were armed men outside the house, there was no one outside the house.

The guy they were after was a low level drug dealer. WTF is so urgent about popping someone over a $50 meth sale (no weapons or drugs were found anywhere, where did they go?) that the swat team needed to storm the house at 3am 18 hours after the alleged drug buy? We're not talking the french connection here. Why not s simple stake out for a day or two until the guy leaves the house or shows up at the house? You know, the old fashioned non macho big dick way that got the job done but didn't get people killed. Then they would have known exactly who was or was not in the house. Of course if you are just going to do things the old fashioned way you miss out on getting lots of cool toys and lots of drug fighting grant money from the federal government.

How can there be an appropriate use for this kind of force when the people using it can't get simple police procedure or their stories together?

Side note the ada says the alleged drug dealer could be charged for the injuries to the baby.

47278 Howdy There 2014 Jun 13, 4:25pm

Hey Bob,

"This was supposed to be the correct house. The police story has changed several times already."

"...no weapons or drugs were found anywhere, where did they go?"

"Then they would have known exactly who was or was not in the house."

"How can there be an appropriate use for this kind of force when the people using it can't get simple police procedure or their stories together?"

They made serious mistakes. Maybe charges should be pending. I won't argue that. Getting the wrong address seems unbelievably incompetent.

But tell me this. Would you want a family member to go into a criminal's house without body armour, diversionary grenades and weapons equivalent to what the criminals are likely to have?

If you have some critical evidence on the nature of these weapons that I'm not aware of, I'm interested in hearing it, instead of blindly condemning them.

47279 bob2356 2014 Jun 13, 5:39pm

But tell me this. Would you want a family member to go into a criminal's house without body armour, diversionary grenades and weapons equivalent to what the criminals are likely to have?

I would expect a family member who was a cop to have enough sense to not go rushing into anyone's house with an assault team loaded with automatic weapons over $50 worth of meth from a know drug dealer. Cops know who these guys are and where they can be found. They can find them and arrest them easy enough in most cases with some plain old police work. Once a police force has a lot of hardware and is paying big bucks for training swat people there is a lot of pressure to use it to justify the cost.

If you have some critical evidence on the nature of these weapons that I'm not aware of, I'm interested in hearing it, instead of blindly condemning them.

Read it again. I'm not blindly condemning the weapons. I'm condemning the overkill the weapons generate. Use it or lose it. Do you know that an ever increasing number of states require swat teams for all felony arrests. A dawn swat team (on overtime) for check kiters, embezzlers, or tax evaders hardly seems like a justified use of taxpayer dollars when a couple of guys on regular patrol could just knock on the door. Over 90% of crimes are property crimes, not running down dangerous felons. Burglers and car thieves are almost never armed. Not to mention that things can go badly wrong with swat team raids even under the best of circumstances.

Where is all the danger to police that justifies the use of this hardware? The number of police deaths per year have been steadily declining since the 60's from the low to mid 200 a year range to around 150 a year. Since there are 900k police today vs 400k in 1970 it means a cop on the street has 1/3 the chance of being killed in 2014 than in 1970. Don't bother to argue it is because of the military hardware is being used. The trend downward has been flat since before all the military hardware really came pouring into police forces in the last 10 years.

Perhaps, a big perhaps, a single regional swat team could be justified. But there are many places where there are multiple overlapping teams within a small area. This just doesn't make sense. Cornelia, where we are talking, about is a town of 3500 people 1.5 hours from Atlanta with nothing around it. What possible justification can there be for a multijurisdictional SWAT team in a town of 3500 in the middle of no where? Be serious. It took them 18 hours to put together the raid. They could have driven in a swat team from Miami or NY in less than 18 hours for christ sakes, never mind Atlanta.

47280 bob2356 2014 Jun 13, 5:58pm

Nope just a typo

It's not a typo, it's a totally incorrect usage.

Kant was the guy who was trying to teach Elephants German irregular verbs, yea lot of knowledge there.

How does trying to teach elephants german irregular verbs prove or disprove his lack of knowledge? Anyway Metaphysics of Morals was a philosophical work not auto biographical. I actually had to read it for second year college philosophy. That was heavy going.

47281 bob2356 2014 Jun 13, 6:08pm

Ceffer says

Maybe OJ and the son tag teamed them.

They were part of the zionist new world order. It was a false flag operation to start a global war against leggy blondes. Nicole's father was from kansas, he knew someone that lived in ethiopia, who was second cousin to someone who once lived in isreal for 5 minutes who dated a girl from hong kong who had the exact same initials as James A. de Rothschild second wife's grandmother. That is why Nicole had to die, it's perfectly clear. See it's all tied together..

47282

indigenous 2014 Jun 13, 6:09pm

It's not a typo, it's a totally incorrect usage.

How so? bob2356 says

How does trying to teach elephants german irregular verbs prove or disprove his lack of knowledge? Anyway Metaphysics of Morals was a philosophical work not auto biographical. I actually had to read it for second year college philosophy. That was heavy going.

It indicates his sanity.

47283 bob2356 2014 Jun 13, 6:11pm

Maybe you should just go sleep it off....

trolling 101 shuck and jive.

47284 bob2356 2014 Jun 13, 6:38pm

How so

because a priori is not a synonym for beforehand in latin or english.

It indicates his sanity.

sanity is not a synonym for knowledge. kant's sanity was fine. his brevity was severely lacking.

47285

indigenous 2014 Jun 13, 6:45pm

because a priori is not a synonym for beforehand in latin or english.

I don't see where I used it in that context.

sanity is not a synonym for knowledge. kant's sanity was fine. his brevity was severely lacking.

It is a sign of intent. Hitler was smart too but his intent was insane.

47286 Howdy There 2014 Jun 13, 10:28pm

"The number of police deaths per year have been steadily declining since the 60's from the low to mid 200 a year range to around 150 a year."

From this link:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904

"The country's first official SWAT team started in the late 1960s in Los Angeles. By 1975, there were approximately 500 such units. Today, there are thousands. According to surveys conducted by the criminologist Peter Kraska of Eastern Kentucky University, just 13% of towns between 25,000 and 50,000 people had a SWAT team in 1983. By 2005, the figure was up to 80%."

"Don't bother to argue it is because of the military hardware is being used."

But I must, because the timelines synch, and it makes sense. I think one could also argue that they've gone too far in recent history with the following corollary:

"Over 90% of crimes are property crimes, not running down dangerous felons. Burglers and car thieves are almost never armed."

Unfortunately, the police lack the crystal ball required to know which felons will be armed and which won't. Workers in other fields use safety precautions 100% of the time to reduce risk. Police may have to face limitations because sometimes their safety precautions injure innocents.

"Perhaps, a big perhaps, a single regional swat team could be justified. But there are many places where there are multiple overlapping teams within a small area."

I think I can agree with this. Police forces need to take a hard look at when and how they use SWAT teams.

I'd love to live in a world where police are armed with night sticks and whistles, and it's enough.

47287 Howdy There 2014 Jun 13, 11:01pm

I should add Bob that the debate should be about the collateral damage caused by police having more aggressive equipment and tactics versus the reduced risk to police and possible reduced collateral damage due to a quick takedown (picture a running gunfight that the police aren't winning.)

In the case that FortWayne brought up in comment 32, it seems unlikely that baby Bou Bou would have been hurt if the police were limited to line of sight weapons. In another case an officer might have gotten shot because a criminal wasn't incapacitated by a flashbang grenade.

47288

lostand confused 2014 Jun 14, 12:49am

47289

indigenous 2014 Jun 14, 12:53am

Ah Ha. Apples and oranges. I'm not talking about your post I'm talking about the sentence "every single possible development/outcome is prescribed apriori in the rule book." The only word that could possibly used substituted (at least that would make reasonable sense) is beforehand. That is neither the definition nor the intent of a priori.

Show where I used that context.

47290 bob2356 2014 Jun 14, 1:28am

"The country's first official SWAT team started in the late 1960s in Los Angeles. By 1975, there were approximately 500 such units. Today, there are thousands. According to surveys conducted by the criminologist Peter Kraska of Eastern Kentucky University, just 13% of towns between 25,000 and 50,000 people had a SWAT team in 1983. By 2005, the figure was up to 80%."

The decrease in fatalities doesn't even begin to correlate with the increase in swat teams. Look at your own numbers above. The dramatic drop in deaths happened before the large numbers of swat teams came on the scene. Well before military hardware was available. Read your own article.

The Swat teams that did exist 20-30 years ago weren't used like they are today. They were brought in for hostage situations or civil unrest not to have a large military style invasion of houses to arrest low level drug dealers or even white collar criminals.