patrick.net

Vicente says

CaptainShuddup says

I wrote in Ron Paul for President.

Where did I say that?

Call it Crazy says

But you have to come back and write a short novel to tells us how WONDERFUL you are... See a trend yet?

Honey, that response wasn't about me, it was about you and how much of a despicable liar you are.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

When has anyone ever been immune to clerical errors errors?


The CIA makes mistakes, so let's shut them down.

You made the erroneous statement that the CIA isn't stupid enough to torture a person because of a clerical error. This statement is empirically false.

Rather than admitting that you were wrong and that we can't trust the CIA to not torture the wrong person, you are now making the Straw Man argument and false dichotomy that we either let the CIA commit crimes against humanity and torture innocent people, or we entirely shut down the CIA and give up any form of government to roam the land naked and lawless.

Don't put words in my mouth. Here is what I said:
1. The CIA makes mistakes like all organizations.
2. The CIA is not stupid.
3. If the CIA tortures terrorists to save innocent lives, I won't complain.
Put it together and what do you have? Occasionally the CIA will end up torturing the wrong person to save innocent lives, just like the courts will end up convicting the wrong person at times. It does not indicate we should just shut everything down, as the alternative is anarchy.

Strategist says

When has anyone ever been immune to clerical errors errors?

The CIA makes mistakes, so let's shut them down.

The FBI makes mistakes, so let's shut them down.

The IRS makes mistakes, so let's shut them down.

The Cops makes mistakes, so let's shut them down.

The military makes mistakes, so let's shut them down.

The government makes mistakes, so let's shut them down.

Now we have anarchy.

Mistakes are guaranteed. Get used to it.

A burst of light dawns. A big duh moment for strategist. Ok now try something totally unfamiliar to you. Actually think for a minute. Mistakes are guaranteed. That's exactly why there is due process of law with courts, lawyers, public scrutiny, appeals, and more appeals. That is why there shouldn't be secret military tribunals, indefinate detention, and a president who can order anyone killed at any time.

I'm so glad you could actually move beyond the limitations imposed on your ability to think by your slavish devotion to the far right and have a lucid moment of reasonable thought. Is this an anomaly or the beginning of an effort to recover your testicles and brain from rush?

bob2356 says

A burst of light dawns. A big duh moment for strategist. Ok now try something totally unfamiliar to you. Actually think for a minute. Mistakes are guaranteed. That's exactly why there is due process of law with courts, lawyers, public scrutiny, appeals, and more appeals. That is why there shouldn't be secret military tribunals, indefinate detention, and a president who can order anyone killed at any time.

And still they make mistakes in spite of due process. Dan reminded us of innocent people on death row in spite of 25 years of investigations, and tens of millions of dollars. Mistakes are GUARANTEED.
When we are at war with terrorists, going through that due process will only harm us. It's a war, not a speeding ticket. Unusual circumstances require unusual solutions.

Strategist says

And still they make mistakes in spite of due process. Dan reminded us of innocent people on death row in spite of 25 years of investigations, and tens of millions of dollars. Mistakes are GUARANTEED.

When we are at war with terrorists, going through that due process will only harm us. It's a war, not a speeding ticket.

You are going to end up with the country you deserve. People like you who totally fail to comprehend the basic concepts that are the foundation of the country make me I'm so glad I have other citizenships if I need them.

Strategist says

Unusual circumstances require unusual solutions.

You've been reading the writings of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao I see. Well at least you are reading.

Strategist says

3. If the CIA tortures terrorists to save innocent lives, I won't complain.

Occasionally the CIA will end up torturing the wrong person to save innocent lives, just like the courts will end up convicting the wrong person at times. It does not indicate we should just shut everything down, as the alternative is anarchy.

Until it's your kid being tortured. That makes you a hypocrite.

It also makes you both evil and stupid. Evil because you are ok with people being tortured. Stupid because you actually think that torturing innocent persons, or even terrorists, will make us safer when in reality it makes us less safe.

You are also a fool to believe that we cannot have a lawful government, that the only choices we have are anarchy or Nazi Germany. What a stupid, stupid false dichotomy.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

Unusual circumstances require unusual solutions.

You've been reading the writings of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao I see. Well at least you are reading.

You don't have to read the works of evil to be a fan. Strategist is reaching the same conclusions because he uses the same Stone Age mentality that all evil despots use. It's the caveman's kill all my neighbors before they can kill me and then rape all the women mentality. Yeah, that might have worked in the Stone Age, but it doesn't work in the Nuclear Age.

Call it Crazy says

Hmmm... For a post about me, there were certainly a hell of a lot of "I's" in it

Ah Republican dishonesty and hypocrisy at its finest. First you make a false accusation against me. Then when I thoroughly debunk your false accusation, you make another false accusation to distract from the fact that you were just shown to be a liar.

Regardless of your worthless opinion regarding me, all my statements in this thread have been factually correct whereas everything you've said has been a lie. Since you cannot find flaw in my arguments and you cannot support your assertions with evidence, you resort to personal attacks.

In contrast, I dismantle your arguments, illustrate their hypocrisy and contradiction, and only then insult you for being a moronic, unethical bigot with penis envy. The insults, well deserved by you, are the icing on the cake, not the foundations of my arguments.

Dan8267 says

After a couple of months, the C.I.A. figured out that they had picked up not a shadowy terrorist but a car salesman from Bavaria who happened to have a similar name. Even then, they kept him prisoner for several weeks while trying to figure out their next move.

The CIA ultimately realised that it had mistaken el-Masri for an al-Qaida suspect with a similar name. But it held on to him for weeks after that. It was not until 24 May 2004, that he was flown, blindfolded, earmuffed, and chained to his seat, to Albania, where he was dumped on the side of the road without explanation.

That's not an innocent mistake. That's malice. That's literally terrorism. That's criminal.

Call it Crazy says

BTW, have you looked up the definition of a narcissist yet?

I'm sorry, you must have me mistaken for someone who gives a damn about what you think.

Dan8267 says

I'm sorry, you must have me mistaken for someone who gives a damn about what you think.

Not that you care what anyone thinks, but you are a narcissist.

I'd rather be an ethical narcissist on the right side of history than a scumbag who believes its ok to torture innocent people in the vain attempt to torture "guilty" people or a liar who promotes such vile policies.

Of course, I could easily argue that anyone accusing me of narcissism is merely projecting their insecurity complex. I have yet to be called arrogant, vain, or narcissistic by anyone I respect, and there are multitudes of such people. It's a hell of a coincidence that everyone who accuses me of arrogance is someone I determined was an idiot long before the accusations started flying.

Call it Crazy says

Well, we BOTH agree that you're an idiot..

I'd explain why you are wrong, but ironically, in order to understand the explanation you would require the very reading comprehension skills whose lack caused you to err in the first place.

When voting this fall, please read this thread and realize the kind of people who support Republicans. Then ask yourself if you really want to be associated with those dumb fucks.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

And still they make mistakes in spite of due process. Dan reminded us of innocent people on death row in spite of 25 years of investigations, and tens of millions of dollars. Mistakes are GUARANTEED.


When we are at war with terrorists, going through that due process will only harm us. It's a war, not a speeding ticket.

You are going to end up with the country you deserve. People like you who totally fail to comprehend the basic concepts that are the foundation of the country make me I'm so glad I have other citizenships if I need them.

The country I deserve is the country all humans deserve. Freedom, education, democracy, healthcare, and spectacular scientific progress. Sometimes in order to achieve what we deserve, we must temporarily step back to ward off those who plan on taking away our freedoms.

Dan8267 says

I'd rather be an ethical narcissist on the right side of history than a scumbag who believes its ok to torture innocent people in the vain attempt to torture "guilty" people or a liar who promotes such vile policies.

Here's a million dollar question...I heard it on TV a few years ago, and it set me thinking. "Would you torture to save the life of your child" If the answer is "No" you are a bad parent.

Strategist says

Here's a million dollar question...I heard it on TV a few years ago, and it set me thinking. "Would you torture to save the life of your child" If the answer is "No" you are a bad parent.

I hate those sorts of questions. They set you up for a "right" answer.

Here's another one:

You see a strange child stuck on railroad tracks, a train approaching. Do you jump to save this child, and risk death? What if you have children of your own who will be left parentless?

Strategist says

The country I deserve is the country all humans deserve. Freedom, education, democracy, healthcare, and spectacular scientific progress. Sometimes in order to achieve what we deserve, we must temporarily step back to ward off those who plan on taking away our freedoms.

The only people taking away american freedoms are americans. The people in power who do it because of the people like you who allow it.

I thought Call It Crazy was suppose to be a grandfather, but he talks like a five-year-old. Is that his real age or just his literacy level?

Strategist says

"Would you torture to save the life of your child" If the answer is "No" you are a bad parent.

So Strategist, would you torture another person's child to save your child? If so, you should be in prison.

The problem with questions like these is that they don't reflect reality. Torturing people won't make you safer. And people who answer yes to such questions, they have a tendency to think of torture and murder as the only options.

Vicente says

You see a strange child stuck on railroad tracks, a train approaching. Do you jump to save this child, and risk death? What if you have children of your own who will be left parentless?

Excellent point. The answer to conservatives like Strategist and Crazy is, of course, "fuck no". After all, other people's children mean nothing to them. In fact, they value their own children's lives only because those kids carry their DNA. These assholes would gladly kill everyone in the world to ensure their own genetic survival. It's the epitome of immorality and short-sightedness.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

"Would you torture to save the life of your child" If the answer is "No" you are a bad parent.

So Strategist, would you torture another person's child to save your child? If so, you should be in prison.

Oh boy, that's a tough one. I don't think I could.
I would have no problem torturing, or rather allowing a terrorist to be tortured to save anyones child.

Dan8267 says

The problem with questions like these is that they don't reflect reality. Torturing people won't make you safer. And people who answer yes to such questions, they have a tendency to think of torture and murder as the only options.

They have used waterboarding which is not even torture to extract crucial information from terrorists that have saved lives.

Dan8267 says

Vicente says

You see a strange child stuck on railroad tracks, a train approaching. Do you jump to save this child, and risk death? What if you have children of your own who will be left parentless?

Excellent point. The answer to conservatives like Strategist and Crazy is, of course, "fuck no". After all, other people's children mean nothing to them. In fact, they value their own children's lives only because those kids carry their DNA. These assholes would gladly kill everyone in the world to ensure their own genetic survival. It's the epitome of immorality and short-sightedness.

Oh God, there he goes again.
Hey Call Crazy, we really chapped his hide this time.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

The country I deserve is the country all humans deserve. Freedom, education, democracy, healthcare, and spectacular scientific progress. Sometimes in order to achieve what we deserve, we must temporarily step back to ward off those who plan on taking away our freedoms.

The only people taking away american freedoms are americans. The people in power who do it because of the people like you who allow it.

One day, when you have grandkids or great grandkids, a little boy and girl will sit on your lap and ask....Hey grampa, tell us the story of Strategist, whose ideas created the freedom we so enjoy. And you will say "Ah yes, humanity owes people like him a lot. I wish I could have been a little more like Strategist." Sigh!

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

Excellent point. The answer to conservatives like Strategist and Crazy is, of course, "fuck no". After all, other people's children mean nothing to them. In fact, they value their own children's lives only because those kids carry their DNA. These assholes would gladly kill everyone in the world to ensure their own genetic survival. It's the epitome of immorality and short-sightedness.

Oh God, there he goes again.

Hey Call Crazy, we really chapped his hide this time.

He gets more delusional every day!

Do you have a valium you can loan him? Or does he still prefers pot?

Call it Crazy says

What it shows is his true self-centerness and how he feels the world revolves around him. That's what happens when you don't have a girlfriend/wife and no kids. It becomes all about him and if you don't agree with his views, you get the type of posts/opinions like he's made in this thread.

Very sad....

No wife, girlfriend or kids....hmmmmm....Either he can't get it up, or he has a boyfriend.

Strategist says

So Strategist, would you torture another person's child to save your child? If so, you should be in prison.

Oh boy, that's a tough one. I don't think I could.

Well, guess what, the assholes who torture people have no such problem. A person who is willing to torture another human being has crossed a line and isn't going to distinguish between the innocent and the guilty or between adults and children.

Under your system, rape also becomes a viable interrogation method.

So tell me, what if Elizabeth Smart's dad knew something the CIA "needed" to know but wouldn't tell even under duress of torture. Would you be willing to rape Elizabeth Smart in front of her dad in order to make him talk? Cause any torturer wouldn't hesitate to do this.

In case you forgot, Elizabeth Smart was the 14-year-old girl who was kidnapped and turned into a sex slave for 9 months. Still want to rape her for the common good?

Call it Crazy says

Dan8267 says

The problem with questions like these is that they don't reflect reality.

The problem with the majority of the posts YOU make is that they don't reflect reality.

Perfect example of a 5-year-old's response.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

So Strategist, would you torture another person's child to save your child? If so, you should be in prison.

Oh boy, that's a tough one. I don't think I could.

Well, guess what, the assholes who torture people have no such problem. A person who is willing to torture another human being has crossed a line and isn't going to distinguish between the innocent and the guilty or between adults and children.

Under your system, rape also becomes a viable interrogation method.

So tell me, what if Elizabeth Smart's dad knew something the CIA "needed" to know but wouldn't tell even under duress of torture. Would you be willing to rape Elizabeth Smart in front of her dad in order to make him talk? Cause any torturer wouldn't hesitate to do this.

I honestly would not be able to. Besides, the girl is innocent, why even mess with her? A few years ago I started becoming a vegetarian, reason being, I saw how animals were being treated in those disgusting and cruel factory farms. I really don't have the balls to even be cruel to animals.
That does not mean I will not support the torture of terrorists to save human lives. Fuck them, they're worse then cockroaches.

My name is Narmeen Saleh Al-Rubaye. I am a 27-year old Iraqi born Swedish national. I am the mother of 8-year old Zainab, who was born with cerebral palsy as a result of me being kicked in the stomach and tortured with electric shocks when I was pregnant with her.

In June 2004, my husband Shawki Ahmed Omar, an engineer, his 9-year old son from a previous marriage, and I entered Iraq legally from Syria to visit family and friends, and for my husband to establish a branch of an American company his brother owned in the US.

On 29 October 2004, my husband and I were invited to my uncle’s house in Zayouna, Baghdad, for an engagement party. We decided to stay overnight. I was four months’ pregnant with my daughter at that time. At 10pm, American soldiers attacked the house by blowing up the front door, and breaking in from all doors without any warning. They came to the room where I was sitting with my husband, with weapons and dogs. They started to hit my husband before asking any questions. They were hitting him with the butts of their gun, on his head and all over his body. My husband was bleeding profusely from the wounds inflicted by the severe beating. They herded the other people in the house, including my mother and siblings, into other rooms.

I tried to stop the soldiers and pleaded with them to stop beating my husband, but they would not. There were so many US soldiers they filled the room. One of them hit me on the head and knocked me to the ground, so that I lost consciousness for a while. They then let a black dog attack me. I am very afraid of dogs, and I was shaking with fear. They made me squat on the balls of my feet, blindfolded me, and tied my hands behind my back.

All that time they were still beating my husband who never resisted them. The raid lasted four hours. I found out later that all the money and jewellery in the house, including those the women were wearing, were taken that night. All the men in the house were arrested.

They took my husband and me in their vehicles to an unknown location. While I was in their vehicle, they told me that I needed to confess, or they would rape me. Then they put me in a plane and took me to the place of interrogation. I spent sixteen days there. During that time, the interrogations did not stop for one minute. Investigators came in one after the other. They tried every means to make me say what they wanted me to say. They swore and used bad language to humiliate me. At other times, they used beatings and electric shocks. They threw cold water on me, and again threatened to rape me if I didn’t confess. They told me they would send me to Abu Ghraib and do to me what they did to the people there, and that they would take me there and rape me. I did not know where I was. I later found out it was the notorious secret prison Camp Nama. They tortured and beat me a lot, and when they found out that I was pregnant, they told me they would kill the child in my womb. They then concentrated their beating and electric shocks on my abdomen area.

I could hear them torturing my husband as he was in the room next door. .They took me to the interrogation room to watch them as they used electric shocks on my husband’s genitals. They put his head in cold water. They used sleep deprivation. They brought me three times in front of my husband and threatened to rape me in front of him if he didn’t confessThey kept telling him they would rape his 9-year old son in front of him. This was a lie, because they did not have Salah, but my husband did not know this.

All of that time, I was kept in a room that was one metre by one metre in size. I was blindfolded, my hands were tied behind my back, and they made me squat, balancing on the balls of my feet for hours at a time.

I did not sleep for 16 days. They kept trying to make me take a pill, but I didn’t know what it was, so I refused. They forced me to take it. After 16 days, they left me on a street. I had no idea where I was.

After I was released, I went to a specialist doctor and told her about the electric shocks and the beatings on my stomach. The doctor was certain that I would not have a normal child. Now my daughter is 8 years old. She is slow in her physical development, movement, walking, and speech, because of the torture she endured in my womb.

After that, I didn’t hear anything about my husband for a few months, until I got a letter through the Red Cross telling me that he was in solitary confinement at Camp Bucca in Basra. Basra is seven hours away from Baghdad. I would make appointments to visit my husband, go all the way there, and they would then refuse to let me see him. This happened several times. My daughter was only a few months old then.

Months would go by, and we would not hear anything about my husband. We later learned that he spent nine continuous months in solitary confinement. During that time, they continued to interrogate my husband, and would lie to him telling him that they would rape me in front of him, trying to get him to make a false confession.

On 24 June 2010, Shawki had a trial. He met his lawyer the same day in court. He was convicted and sentenced to 15 years, starting from that day, for illegal entry into Iraq. This is a completely false charge and we have the evidence to disprove it. After an appeal in February 2011, the sentence was reduced to seven years. To date, however, the Iraqi authorities are refusing to release my husband.

My husband was in the last group of prisoners to be handed over to Iraqi custody by the Americans on 15 July 2011. He was with those who were in the airport prison, Camp 7. The guards abused them they are Sunni Muslims and treated them in an inhumane manner. They even tried to poison the prisoners by putting bleach in their food. My husband continues to be tortured and beaten at times.