patrick.net

indigenous says

No, you failed to show a correlation of safety agencies to a decline in accidents.

And you said the improvement in safety was SOLELY down to technology, something which you have clearly failed to demonstrate.

indigenous says

3. The 40-hour work week

Again this is solely because of technology. Previously a farmer had to work 100 hr a week, along comes the tractor and the hours required to get the work done were less

And again, it isn't. Technology can cut the time of production, but so what? That doesn't in of itself create 40 hour work weeks. I could just as easily argue that you can continue to have 100 hour work weeks and simply cut the labour force proportionately.

indigenous says

Citation please

The entire south since the civil war.

indigenous says

No, you failed to show a correlation of safety agencies to a decline in accidents.

Oh yes, the famous when did you stop beating you wife correlation. Prove that there is a correlation between technology and safety then. Laws were passed, technology advanced. Prove only one had an effect. Other than the core conservatism believe it's rue because I believe it should be true.

indigenous says

same answer, if the customer gets sick they quit buying.

Oh, and how does the "customer" relate being sick to bad meat, as opposed to bad veggies, bad eggs, bad salad dressing, bad water, bad coworkers, or just door knobs they touched?

indigenous says

I guess I'm going a little fast for you, I'm saying the FDA is a pretend agency that does not do their job. We would be better off with something like consumer reports that does this function.

Oh wonderful, that's perfect. So the drug companies will just produce whatever they want and consumer reports will lell us know how they wok out afterwards. Sorry about that, you died before we reviewed that drug. CR will tell us which food producers are selling e coli loaded meat and veggies so we can avoid buying them? What a great idea. After all the producers of foods are so clearly labelled on every pieces of meat and every vegetable and every fruit. Oh wait, there will have to be a law requiring that? Wouldn't that go against being a libertarian?

So all that ranting and raving about the FDA not doing anything about tobacco advertising means you weren't saying they should do something? The FDA didn't have any authority over tobacco at all until 2009, thanks to southern conservative lawmakers fighting tooth and nail for big tobacco

So you are saying that the conservative principal of fighting at every step of the way to help big tobacco is a fine and upstanding goal, but the FDA failing to ban tobacco advertising the second it had the authority is a great liberal failing. Yes you do have zero credibility.

bob2356 says

The entire south since the civil war.

Not good enough.

bob2356 says

Oh yes, the famous when did you stop beating you wife correlation. Prove that there is a correlation between technology and safety then. Laws were passed, technology advanced. Prove only one had an effect. Other than the core conservatism believe it's rue because I believe it should be true.

You mean prove a negative, not the same not even similar. Economics is not a controlled experiment with one postulate isolated. There are always many factors which is why a posteriori does not work with a natural science. In your own reference they state that the early programs were weak because of a lack of funding.

You are implying that business are happy to exploit workers without any regard to their workers. That is simply not true, by way of a priori reasoning. It is true a business has to make a profit but it is also true that workers are hard to replace and that it is a win win situation for the business to take care of the worker.

You also imply that the business is immoral when in fact they are just the opposite because they raise the standard of living of their customers and put people to work. If they are not subsidized they have to compete in the market place and it is competitive, brutally so, it is not easy, I doubt many on this board are capable of doing it. But the market forces them to be moral.

E.G. the saw stop in the video is a viable company, yet there are no safety laws that require it in the United States.

bob2356 says

Oh, and how does the "customer" relate being sick to bad meat, as opposed to bad veggies, bad eggs, bad salad dressing, bad water, bad coworkers, or just door knobs they touched?

By something you have a weak grasp on, correlation.

bob2356 says

Oh wonderful, that's perfect. So the drug companies will just produce whatever they want and consumer reports will lell us know how they wok out afterwards. Sorry about that, you died before we reviewed that drug. CR will tell us which food producers are selling e coli loaded meat and veggies so we can avoid buying them? What a great idea. After all the producers of foods are so clearly labelled on every pieces of meat and every vegetable and every fruit. Oh wait, there will have to be a law requiring that? Wouldn't that go against being a libertarian?

I did not say there should be zero regulations. However the FDA is no better than a private organization would be. And no it would not be against Libertarianism, you are thinking in absolutes which is stupid as they don't exist.

bob2356 says

So all that ranting and raving about the FDA not doing anything about tobacco advertising means you weren't saying they should do something? The FDA didn't have any authority over tobacco at all until 2009, thanks to southern conservative lawmakers fighting tooth and nail for big tobacco

Try 1996, and I will need a citation on the south.

bob2356 says

So you are saying that the conservative principal of fighting at every step of the way to help big tobacco is a fine and upstanding goal, but the FDA failing to ban tobacco advertising the second it had the authority is a great liberal failing.

Nope, I'm saying that the FDA is ineffective, any implication you are making beyond that, is you conflating conservatism with transgressions to their customers when in fact it is just another round of cronyism which IS a liberal failing. And it does more harm than good.

E.G. a technology for irradiating meat (irradiating the meat kills e coli) was submitted for approval to the FDA, it was a proven technology that was approved earlier for wheat. Yet the FDA took 3 years to approve it.

indigenous says

bob2356 says

The entire south since the civil war.

Not good enough.

Of course not, tablets carried down from the mount by the bearded guy wouldn't be good enough for you.

indigenous says

You are implying that business are happy to exploit workers without any regard to their workers. That is simply not true, by way of a priori reasoning. It is true a business has to make a profit but it is also true that workers are hard to replace and that it is a win win situation for the business to take care of the worker.

This is a joke right? You are kidding with me. What alternative universe do you actually live in?

indigenous says

bob2356 says

Oh, and how does the "customer" relate being sick to bad meat, as opposed to bad veggies, bad eggs, bad salad dressing, bad water, bad coworkers, or just door knobs they touched?

By something you have a weak grasp on, correlation.

and by what method do they correlate exactly what product made them sick?

indigenous says

And no it would not be against Libertarianism, you are thing in absolutes which is stupid as they don't exist.

Very, very funny coming from someone who only works in absolutes. you did say that ONLY technology improved worker safety. Prove it.

indigenous says

E.G. a technology for irradiating meat (irradiating the meat kill e coli) was submitted for approval to the FDA, it was a proven technology that was approved earlier for wheat. Yet the FDA took 3 years to approve it.

and if the FDA had immediatly approved irradiation you would have been screaming about how reckless they were. It's nice to be able to talk out both sides of your mouth and other orifices.

indigenous says

Try 1996, and I will need a citation on the south.

No you don't, you're fully aware of ass kissing by the southern conservatives for big tobacco, you're just playing stupid again.

bob2356 says

Of course not, tablets carried down from the mount by the bearded guy wouldn't be good enough for you.

3rd time I have asked yet no citation...

bob2356 says

This is a joke right? You are kidding with me. What alternative universe do you actually live in?

Spoken like someone who has never owned a business, which grounds a person in reality.

bob2356 says

and by what method do they correlate exactly what product made them sick?

Simply by what always occurs naturally, a local group simply passes the word that this product is making people sick, as with Jack in the Box a while back. Of course the iradiation tech would have stopped the E coli, if the FDA would have approved it.

bob2356 says

and if the FDA had immediatly approved irradiation you would have been screaming about how reckless they were. It's nice to be able to talk out both sides of your mouth and other orifices.

Nope

bob2356 says

No you don't, you're fully aware of ass kissing by the southern conservatives for big tobacco, you're just playing stupid again.

Yes the cronyism made possible through government.

indigenous says

The democrats are the ones who established the KKK.

There were two Democratic lines in the party: the Northern Democratic Party and the Southern Democratic Party or the Dixiecrats. The Dixiecrats were conservative scumbags from the south, descendants of slavers, who founded the KKK. During the 1950s, Richard Nixon created the Southern Strategy in which the Republicans would woe the bigoted Dixiecrats because whites greatly outnumbered blacks. During the 1950s and 1960s all Dixiecrats converted from the Southern Democratic Party to the Republican Party.

A perfect example of this conversion is the slimeball Strom Thurmond, who filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1957. He led the walkout of the Southern Democrats at the 1948 convention illustrating the great rift between Northern Democrats and the bigoted Southern Democrats. He switched parties in 1964 during the era when all Dixiecrats became Republicans.

To suggest that today's Democratic Party is descended from the Southern Democrats is utter bullshit and an out-right lie. Today's Democratic Party is descended from the Northern Democratic Party and most of the Republican Party of today is composed of old Dixiecrats and their inbred descendants.

Of course, you despicable conservatives, regardless of what political party you take over, are such lying sacks of shit that you would try to make people think the truth is the exact opposite of what it is. The truth makes conservatives look evil because conservatives are evil regardless of what names they call themselves.

The actual members of the KKK today are all Republicans. The members of the KKK before 1960 who are still alive today are all Republicans. The descendants of KKK members who haven't rebelled against their racist parents are all Republicans. And black, who used to vote Republican since the Civil War, saw the parties switch roles and now almost universally vote Democrat.

You can always tell the difference between good and evil with one simple test. Good tells the truth because the truth supports the case of good. Evil lies because the truth makes evil look terrible. indigenous has demonstrated this principle clearly.

indigenous says

The sole purveyor of safety is technology

And laws banning children from working in factories with dangerous equipment had nothing to do with fewer children dying and being disfigured and deformed?

Every historian disagrees with you.

http://www.history.com/topics/labor/videos/the-fight-to-end-child-labor

indigenous says

3. The 40-hour work week

Again this is solely because of technology. Previously a farmer had to work 100 hr a week, along comes the tractor and the hours required to get the work done were less

Bullshit. Eli Whitney thought that the cotton gin would end slavery since a single man could do the work of 50 with it. Instead, the technology over quadrupled the number of slaves.

indigenous says

According to Anne Coulter this was a mistake, and is what has led to today's excessive progressivism.

OK, so people who believe that women should not vote should side with you and your conservative brethren. Everyone else should vote Democrat to make sure that assholes like you have no power.

indigenous says

5. The Pure Food and Drug Act and the Meat Inspection Act

Another pretend organization.

OK, so people who want to get mad cow disease or eat meat with rat carcases and human body parts should side with you. Everyone else should vote against Republicans.

indigenous quotes Michael Moore video
Yeah, capitalism is bad for health care. That's what Moore is saying. Children are on bad drugs because capitalistic greed has taken over our health care system. The solution is to get rid of private corporations from health care. The massive revenue streams creates a conflict of interest that hurts children and everyone else.

indigenous says

The United States is a Republic, this is the only thing that protects individual from the tyranny of the democracy.

The United States is a Republic, not a Democracy, and that is exactly the problem. Letting shitty states with a few inbreds have as many senators as populous states allows a batshit crazy minority to take over government from a diverse and sensible majority. We should base senator voting power on the number of people they represent. It's called proportional voting and it works better. It would also end the evil reign of slavers, aka conservatives, you know they people who were actual tyrants over million others who resided in slavery.

By the way, it's spelled disingenuous, not indigenous.

Dan8267 says

By the way, it's spelled disingenuous, not indigenous.

BTW it is spelled ingenuous, you should try it sometime.

Dan8267 says

There were two Democratic lines in the party

And still no citation...

Dan8267 says

And laws banning children from working in factories with dangerous equipment had nothing to do with fewer children dying and being disfigured and deformed?

The trouble with your theory is that the laws against child labor did not occur until 1938. Furthering proving that the market handles these things as child labor was no longer an issue by 1938.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. Eli Whitney thought that the cotton gin would end slavery since a single man could do the work of 50 with it. Instead, the technology over quadrupled the number of slaves.

There is more than one factor in economics, to correlate slavery growth with the cotton gin is laughable.

Dan8267 says

OK, so people who believe that women should not vote should side with you and your conservative brethren. Everyone else should vote Democrat to make sure that assholes like you have no power.

Just saying the facts are that Ds grew after women's suffrage.

Dan8267 says

OK, so people who want to get mad cow disease or eat meat with rat carcases and human body parts should side with you. Everyone else should vote against Republicans.

That statement is imbecilic.

Dan8267 says

indigenous quotes Michael Moore video

Yeah, capitalism is bad for health care. That's what Moore is saying. Children are on bad drugs because capitalistic greed has taken over our health care system. The solution is to get rid of private corporations from health care. The massive revenue streams creates a conflict of interest that hurts children and everyone else.

It is because of cronyism.

Dan8267 says

We should base senator voting power on the number of people they represent.

So we could have a second congress? Your sensible majority is the tyranny of the majority. Groups do not evolve truth they evolve group think.

Showing the facts is a complete waste of time with you.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/SkzV5AIK8iM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

indigenous says a lot of lies he just pulled from his ass.

You know that video clip you just showed of Bob Hope refering to Democrats as mindless zombies was from the 1940 film The Ghost Breakers, back before the Southern Strategy. The very people Hope was referring to where the Dixiecrats who are now Republicans. And Bob Hope was 100% correct, conservatives are mindless zombies no matter what they call themselves.

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

There were two Democratic lines in the party

And still no citation...

Dan8267 says

that video clip you just showed of Bob Hope refering to Democrats as mindless zombies was from the 1940 film The Ghost Breakers, back before

Just about everyone who was an adult in the 40's is now dead. FYI.

Don't you guys see this liberal versus conservative divide as pointless?

To me, it is yet another hilarious battle for the "true" meta-narrative.

I never enjoyed team sports.

Valets in Las Vegas get a lot of tips. This is because winners are reckless spenders. When they become losers, they cannot take back the tips.

And there are always winners for the day.

I don't get it. The concept of "majority" is not even particularly sexy.

BTW, I love Vegas. Nowhere else in the world can I get a 4-star 1BED/1.5BATH suite for $160 a night. Courtesy of gambling losers.

The current somewhat high cost of land is a built-in pricing buffer of 'sustainability'.

Our producer surplus goes right into bidding up the cost of land and other necessities in short supply.

Existing land costs approximately $0 to "produce". Its sale price is a surplus, one that would be reduced if actual costs of living increased.

Nobody gets this.

What you talkin about Willis? You guys sound like you smoked some dope and are waxing Nihilistic.

Meanwhile back in the real world everything you said can be summed up by mercantilism, which explains China and Japan.

After that it is another example of Say's law, which Keynesians don't understand, but sure as fuck goes a long way towards splaining China.

3rd and most important is the imbecilic idea that the business cycle can be leveled out and that there should not be any losers.

4th and almost as important is that people create the future and they sure as fuck will continue doing just that.

Peter P says

Yeah. It has always been a winner-takes-all world.

No it's not, examples?

Peter P says

To make real progress, humanity must awake to the fact that evil does not exist.

Yes, but to awake to this they must first realize they are asleep, en masse this is not possible and so...

indigenous says

Peter P says

Yeah. It has always been a winner-takes-all world.

No it's not, examples?

Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, etc... They all tried to conquer the "known" world.

Happens every few hundred years.

rdm says

Yes, but to awake to this they must first realize they are asleep, en masse this is not possible and so...

So "real" progress is impossible for humanity.

Peter P says

Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, etc... They all tried to conquer the "known" world.

Happens every few hundred years.

You have to be joking...

Dan8267 says

At least he did shut the fuck up when I cited the entire history of the political parties in a graphic.

Yea but it is still ambiguous as to who did what, not as simple as you assert where the Ds switched places with the Rs.

indigenous says

Yea but it is still ambiguous as to who did what, not as simple as you assert where the Ds switched places with the Rs.

No it's not. Conservative democrats switched to the Republican party after lbj pushed through the civil rights act. They had no choice if they wanted to stay in office. Liberal and progressive republicans (yes they did exist) were so disgusted by goldwater they went democrat.

Even Goldwater was disgusted by the Christian right and said it would destroy the Republican Party. He was right about that.

I was going by Dan's chart which stops at 1900