patrick.net

The real crime here is that dude that recorded the whole thing. He needs to be shot in the face fourteen bazillion times by LEO. Or freedom has no meaning and liberty and the pursuit of life is dead as we know it

We need more laws telling people what they can't do on a street. That way cops will have to enforce them and harrass even more people over nothing!

What say you, Mayor DeBlasio?

href="http://patrick.net/?p=1262715&c=1157122#comment-1157122">errc says

The real crime here is that dude that recorded the whole thing.

I would have a lot more faith in the disinterested fairness of the system if it didn't pull shit like that.

Call it Crazy says

The law won, of course, as it almost always does.

Almost.

Except when it's a spoiled white Nevada rancher who grazes his cattle on someone else's land. Then the law backs off and apologizes.

I think the evidence is clear:
- the cops had to use violence to arrest a suspect that refuse to submit willingly.
- the suspect being twice the cop's weight, it's probably hard to tell how much force to apply
- there was no way to for the cop to know the guy was asthmatic and would go into cardiac arrest.

So this is an accident. I'm not sure exactly what to discuss about this.
It looks bad, but once you start using violence, this kind of things will happen.

Heraclitusstudent says

So this is an accident. I'm not sure exactly what to discuss about this.

This is very important. Cops have developed the habit of "kill first, ask questions later". The use of deadly force on every little lawbreaker is not justified. The guy wasn't even committing any crime at that time.

From: http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/12/03/judge-andrew-napolitano-nypd-officer-daniel-pantaleo-should-have-been-indicted-eric

""My thoughts are this ought to have been an indictment and there ought to have been some sort of indictment for manslaughter ... because of the excessive use of deadly force on a person who posed no serious or material threat to the police," Judge Andrew Napolitano said on "Shepard Smith Reporting" this afternoon.

Judge Nap noted he has not seen all the evidence that the grand jury saw, so that could change his opinion, but on the basis of what he saw in the video of the incident, he said he believes it is a case of an individual doing nothing more than selling untaxed cigarettes, and as a result of government interaction, he's dead.

"This is not a fair application of the law," Judge Nap said."

gsr says

Cops have developed the habit of "kill first, ask questions later". The use of deadly force on every little lawbreaker is not justified.

A choke-hold is not deadly force by nature. It's a way to neutralize a person and it's usually easy to stop when the person stops wrangling. To strangle a person usually requires maintaining the hold long AFTER the person has gone limp.

The problem is if you deal with an asthmatic that goes into cardiac arrest. There is no way to predict that. I don't think you can logically say there was a willingness to kill.

There is no greater power to give to the state, Then the ability to take human life

If you support police murdering citizens for doing nothing, Then you support the largest most powerful form of government imaginable

You are a statist

HydroCabron says

We need more laws telling people what they can't do on a street. That way cops will have to enforce them and harrass even more people over nothing!

What say you, Mayor DeBlasio?

This would actually be hillarious had it not come from a guy who persistently parrots msnbheehaw.

Stop advocating for the people who introduce nanny state laws and you might have some credibility.

errc says

There is no greater power to give to the state, Then the ability to take human life

If you support police murdering citizens for doing nothing, Then you support the largest most powerful form of government imaginable

You are a statist

No one supports that.

Also no one(well very few) believes that black lives don't matter. Or that people should be killed over innocuous crimes.

But to make an issue...to drum up support, the left has to build strawmen to create something to fight against and need useful idiots(you) to continue pounding that drum.

Maybe this evening I'll post the true incident showing police needless brutality. It barely made local news, probably cause the guy killed was white. But thug idiot cops killing someone...actually happened unlike these media sensations driven by modern day carnie barkers, trying to shovel loads of crap and people like you slurping it up.

gsr says

Can anyone explain why the grand jury did not indict the officer?

The Grand Jury has spoken. This matter is now closed and not up for debate.
Anyone saying otherwise is a rabble-rousing thug.

Next!

You support it

But I'm open to the possibility that you're just too gotdam dumb to think out even a single deviation on an implications chain

I don't want cops killing anyone. Skin color doesn't matter

The righties love government and especially, wealth destroying union government thugs so much, they will defend their every and any action

Hell, this dumb ass dodger John would probably support the big union government employees slaughtering his own mother and savaging her corpse, if the poor old bat got caught going 56 in a 55mph zone.

Rules are rules, And just like the big government union police, they are here to protect us. Done want your mom being raped and beaten to death? Then find break the rules

Heraclitusstudent says

The problem is if you deal with an asthmatic that goes into cardiac arrest. There is no way to predict that. I don't think you can logically say there was a willingness to kill.

There is an utter carelessness, if not willingness to kill. They shoot at any slightest provocation. Don't you see the pattern? And it is not just limited to blacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0-ec-LrvKA

dodgerfanjohn says

Stop advocating for the people who introduce nanny state laws and you might have some credibility.

Says the guy with less than zero credibility.

You guys say "uh, don't you know that's what happens when cops arrest someone. Haven't you watched cops ?" (no btw, I have not). That's a BS excuse. These guy were piling on a 300 pound dude who was struggling on the ground because he couldn't breathe. And what did he do, to even deserve being arrested ? It's well known that new york has a policy of harassing people that they profile as possibly being up to no good. (Often that means - that's right - guilty of being black).

Yeah yeah. I know, I'm such a racist to say that.

I can not fucking believe that we can't all agree that an injustice was done here !

errc says

And just like the big government union police

That's low. Bringing their union into it to get your right wing bretheren to see how messed up the police are getting at times.

It's not the fault of collective bargaining that police are out of contol, or that the legal system doesn't go after these types of abuses of power.

humanity says

errc says

And just like the big government union police

That's low. Bringing their union into it to get your right wing bretheren to see how messed up the police are getting at times.

It's not the fault of collective bargaining that police are out of contol, or that the legal system doesn't go after these types of abuses of power.

Right wing brethren? Lol

The union fights to protect the police in all their wrong doings. How are they not culpable?

But that's besides the point. It's a dig at the dumb ass right wingers for always blabbing on about how bad unions are , and Joe bad the government is. Until it's a big government union member murdering a black guy. Then they erupt in cheer

The brotherhood mentality of the police unions is exactly why this type of shit has become a daily occurrence. All the union brother's in blue got each other's back . No matter how heinous the acts of their union brother's are, they never come out and protect and serve the citizenry from one of their own

humanity says

dodgerfanjohn says

Stop advocating for the people who introduce nanny state laws and you might have some credibility.

Says the guy with less than zero credibility.

You guys say "uh, don't you know that's what happens when cops arrest someone. Haven't you watched cops ?" (no btw, I have not). That's a BS excuse. These guy were piling on a 300 pound dude who was struggling on the ground because he couldn't breathe. And what did he do, to even deserve being arrested ? It's well known that new york has a policy of harassing people that they profile as possibly being up to no good. (Often that means - that's right - guilty of being black).

Yeah yeah. I know, I'm such a racist to say that.

I can not fucking believe that we can't all agree that an injustice was done here !

No you are a racist who can't discern which facts apply and which don't.

In short, your brain process doesn't work logically. You grasp onto facts without considering other facts, and you introduce your own racial bias to fill in the space that you're facts don't completely cover.

Like I said, I'll post later on the local incident where cops really did kill someone in an out of policy and probably illegal manner. Of course since it doesn't include race as a factor, you probably won't be outraged or even care.

Oh and about the TV show cops thing...you'd have to be a drooling knuckle dragger not to realize that somewhere north of 99% of those arrested lie to the cops.

humanity says

That's low. Bringing their union into it to get your right wing bretheren to see how messed up the police are getting at times.

But that is still a fact. There are numerous articles on this. The police union usually protect rouge cops.

Yeah "not all cops are bad", lotta good cops out there, good cops just mindin their business, watchin bad cops be bad, lettin it happen

This is a damning article...

Call it Crazy says

http://nypost.com/2014/12/04/eric-garner-was-a-victim-of-himself-for-deciding-to-resist/

If only he had gotten a NY resale license, this all could have been avoided...

Robert Sproul says

Smokes cost 14 fucking bucks a pack in NYC, thanks largely to Mother Bloomberg.

Selling cigarettes by the each is a community service.

Those fucking cigarettes we're loose! That's terrorism!!!!

After the financial crash several years back, police pursued a street vendor of illicit CD's and shot him dead on Christmas Day.

Why aren't the NYC cops hassling and killing bankers?

In the foreseeable future robots (and artificial intelligence in general) will replace virtually all jobs, including law enforcement.

Unions will have no place in that world.

Peter P says

Unions will have no place in that world.

The Communist Party will, instead.

Only in Libertarian lala land with no 2nd, 3rd, 4th order effects will people allow themselves and their children to starve to death because the 1% fires them all for robots.

When people have nothing to lose, they lose it.

In the USA, Guns are ample, and molotov cocktails easy to make. Any machine can be destroyed. It'll be a helluva long time before robotic infantry can take cover, be aware it's slowly being flanked, etc. That's a whole lot of automation, sensors, and processing power, not to mention software. Predictable patterns can be identified in robots and exploited. Then, you'd have to get LEO Robots to work together in a team, since operating singly they'd be easily overwhelmed and destroyed. There would be an enormous amount of real-life trial and error required, too.

There will be no need for supervisors, middle management, etc. Many of them will be smart enough to know that political power grows out of a gun.

When a LEO robot kills somebody, there's a lot less of a 'holdback' factor. In other words, shooting a LEO robot isn't the same as shooting at the Ministry of Peace human employees.

So if LEO Wilson shoots Human Brown, outraged bystanders won't feel as restrained to blow up LEO Wilson as they would human Wilson.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Vp9GH3FLNlA

TL;DR It's easier to get over your programming and shoot a Dalek instead of Mr. Dalek.

Perhaps we need self-replicating, super-human, robotic cops.

We need order as opposed to chaos.

Order is only one possibility of Chaos.

The future unemployed can play immersive video games, which will feature the same boring middle-class dead-end jobs and oversized Pergraniteel McMansions they love so much.

Virtual Reality is already virtually real. With reduced intellectual capacity going forward most people will not be able to tell.

Peter P says

In the foreseeable future robots (and artificial intelligence in general) will replace virtually all jobs, including law enforcement.

Unions will have no place in that world.

Enough with the Nihilism already, one of the hallmarks of the modern economy is comparative advantage, IOW the more separation of labor their is the more jobs are created.

Who could have foreseen the jobs that would be demand today 100 years ago?

The reality is that there will be a shortage of workers not the Orwellian nightmare you describe.

http://www.ted.com/talks/rainer_strack_the_surprising_workforce_crisis_of_2030_and_how_to_start_solving_it_now

SoftShell says

This is a damning article...

Call it Crazy says

http://nypost.com/2014/12/04/eric-garner-was-a-victim-of-himself-for-deciding-to-resist/

Yes, like the seven year old girl who happened to be sleeping at the wrong place.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/10/joseph-weekley-mistrial-verdict_n_5965362.html

""This trial is a travesty because the judicial system allowed the death of a child by a well-trained police agency to go unpunished," he said. "It is comedy because the people of [southeast] Michigan actually think that Aiyana's family is responsible for Aiyana's death."

Shortly after midnight on May 16, 2010, Weekley entered the Stanley-Jones home. He was the first through the door as part of the Detroit Special Response Team's search for a murder suspect. As a crew filmed for an A&E reality series about murder investigations, another officer is said to have thrown a flash-bang grenade, allegedly making it difficult for Weekley to see. Weekley then fired the shot that killed Aiyana, who was sleeping on the couch with her grandmother, Mertilla Jones.

In court, Weekley maintained that Jones struck his gun, which caused him to shoot. Jones, a primary witness in the trial, denied doing so or being close to Weekley. The prosecution argued that Weekley shouldn't have had his finger on the trigger of his gun, per his professional training."

Mark my word, artificial intelligence will replace all non-skilled jobs and most skilled ones. This will happen in the next 20 years.

Past data is meaningless. We are dealing with a reflexivity between connection and emergence. When machines can teach themselves new skills without human intervention we will not even need more than a handful technology workers.

Perhaps the only viable profession in the future will also be the OLDEST one.

Peter P says

Mark my word

History says you is wrong. Are you also saying
you know more than the speaker in the Video?

indigenous says

Are you also saying

you know more than the speaker in the Video?

Did those real estate "experts" know more about the future of the housing market in 2006?

Before 2006, History proved this site wrong too. Home prices always go up, right?

Funny you talk about

dodgerfanjohn says

your brain process doesn't work logically.

dodgerfanjohn says

Oh and about the TV show cops thing...you'd have to be a drooling knuckle dragger not to realize that somewhere north of 99% of those arrested lie to the cops.

As if the fact that a lot or even most criminals lie while being arrested means that cops need to ignore a guy who has multiple people on top of him choking him and pressing him to the ground while he is crying out "I can't breathe."

Great thinking there John. Very impressive use of logic indeed ! Do you have ant idea how much of an ass you're making out of yourself ?

It's like another example of your impressive logic when you said that everyone who said that WIlson fired at Brown while running away had to have their testimony ignored immediately because Brown wasn't shot in the back (while we all know that Wilson missed with half of the rounds he shot).

I also like the way you say I'm such a racist, just because of a case like this where it likely was a factor in them harassing the guy, and deciding to arrest him. I'd be the first to say that race is not really all that relevant to the incompetence of the cops or the injustice that occurred here. Whether race was a factor or not is a minor distraction compared to the injustice.

I would go a step further in fact. Why don't we take race out of it all together and imagine the guy that died was white when we evaluate how much of an injustice it was.

I commented on that incompetent black university cop who shot the tripping kid. That was even more unbelievable in a way, because how often does a tripping kid really jepardize the life of a campus cop ? In any case this is BS. But thanks for playing dimbulb.

dodgerfanjohn says

Of course since it doesn't include race as a factor, you probably won't be outraged or even care.

Call it Crazy says

Dude, you need to sit down, smoke another blunt, and chill out.

errc says

The brotherhood mentality of the police unions is exactly why this type of shit has become a daily occurrence.

I would say it's the brotherhood mentality of cops rather than of their unions (which are different all over). But to the extent you may have a point, we should be pressuring the unions on this. Certainly if the unions fight the idea of cops wearing cameras, that's going to work against their PR.

But in this case, even having it videod didn't do much good with the law. But in fact it did have a big impact with a lot of thoughtful people all over the country. Really we can thank technology for that. IT is one factor that's pushing against the trend of things moving towards a police state.

humanity says

I would say it's the brotherhood mentality of cops

Pilots rely on each other in the cockpit as well. But they do not have the same brotherhood.

Peter P says

Before 2006, History proved this site wrong too. Home prices always go up, right?

Austrians weren't wrong. The axioms I'm referring to are not wrong either.

Heraclitusstudent says

gsr says

Cops have developed the habit of "kill first, ask questions later". The use of deadly force on every little lawbreaker is not justified.

A choke-hold is not deadly force by nature. It's a way to neutralize a person and it's usually easy to stop when the person stops wrangling.

True, it's not deadly force (in this case), but gsr is making the point that it was overkill.

Just watch the video. THe guy is saying "leave me alone, I didn't do anything." Obviously the cop has called for backup, and when they get there, they proceed to jump on this guy, who is obviously non violent and not being physically dangerous.

I have to believe they could have talked it out with him, and if they still really felt that they needed to arrest him, they could explain a couple times that they don't want to have to physically take him down, but if he doesn't cooperate they are going to have to. The guy surely doesn't want that, and would ultimately cooperate. And if not, they now have like seven guys there and they can do what they need to as a last resort.

Instead, the other guys get there, and some foolhardy asshole basically decides, "let's do this, go."

IT's just so fucking unnecessary. Yeah, I know, sometimes it would be necessary. But they clearly didn't exhaust their options. It's almost like they figured it was a waste to bring all this backup here, if we don't jump him. It's as if original cop is thinking, "it would be like I made a mistake calling for backup if we don't jump him."

So fucking unnecessary.