patrick.net

At what age do kids become adults now a days?

There's another side to this story:

* Caitlyn's Paternal Grandparents support her against her parents
* Apparently the Father's education was at a good proper 4-year college paid for by HIS parents, and he lived on campus like a traditional student, did not commute.
* Michael Ricci (the father) also went to Private School, Camden Catholic.
* Grandfather testified her was livid that his son in turn refused to pay for a "normal" 4-year F/T on campus student college education for his granddaughter.
* Grandparents and Caitlyn complain father only would pay for Caitlyn to live at home and go to Community College.
* NJ has a law that says divorced parents can't treat kids from a previous marriage differently than those of a current marriage.
* Her siblings are from her parent's new marriages
* Both her parents seem to have excellent jobs, especially her father who seems to have a six figure income.

She's 21 years old. Give me a break.

I put myself though college. Aside from the GI Bill, I did it all myself.

Yep. Father is a spoiled brat whose college was paid for by his own father, yet does not want to pay for his own daughter's, even though he and his former wife make about 5x the median household income together:

Entangled in the debate are Caitlyn Ricci's grandparents, her father's parents, whom Michael Ricci called "toxic." He has accused his mother and father of motivating his daughter to sue for tuition money and attend Temple, where she majors in psychology.

Matthew Ricci, 67, who drew intense glares from his son Monday, disputed that account.

"It was her decision," he told the judge. "I didn't say anything. We didn't say anything, where to go, what to do."

He also told the judge that he paid his son's college tuition and said, "I think she should have the opportunity that we gave our kids."

Asked if there was any way to bridge the communication gap between him and his 44-year-old son - which is said to have existed for more than a decade - Matthew Ricci paused and said, "I doubt it."

At other points during Monday's hearing, Shusted reminded Caitlyn Ricci's parents that she was a young adult capable of making her own decisions.

"It's her life," Shusted said.

"Then let her pay for it," Michael Ricci, a senior account manager, said. "Because I can't afford it, and neither can her mom."

Rochester, Caitlyn Ricci's attorney, said the parents' combined household income was more than $272,000 a year.

McGarvey and Michael Ricci have until Jan. 1 to pay their daughter's community college tuition, which they said they plan to do.

The Temple tuition is a different issue. Attorneys for both sides met privately with another judge on that Monday. They failed to reach an agreement.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20141209_Judge__Parents_must_pay_for_daughter_s_NJ_college_tuition.html#brpuFmdvAwPhZZU4.99

Call it Crazy says

It's HER college education, not HIS. She should have skin in the game and pay for HER degree, not him. It's NOT the parents responsibility to pay for her college, it's a GIFT if they decide to help her out.

So let me get this straight. Parents make just shy of $300k between them, Father's College and private grammar school Education was paid for 100% by Grandpa, his father.

It's okay for the Father to make 4 more kids but not pay for college for his first even though he can more than afford to do so.

If you read the link, the father didn't even pay for tuition for the community college, all $1000 of it. He claims the girl screwed up at the community college, but according to the court she got A's and B's with one C.

thunderlips11 says

Call it Crazy says

It's HER college education, not HIS. She should have skin in the game and pay for HER degree, not him. It's NOT the parents responsibility to pay for her college, it's a GIFT if they decide to help her out.

So let me get this straight. Parents make just shy of $300k between them, Father's College and private grammar school Education was paid for 100% by Grandpa, his father.

It's okay for the Father to make 4 more kids but not pay for college for his first even though he can more than afford to do so.

Uh, yes. She is an adult. Welcome to the real world. If you want your parents' help then you have to ask them for it.... They reserve the right to say no, as ultimately your life is your responsibility after a certain age. She should work on her relationship with them rather than trying to compel them to financially support her post majority. What's next? Maybe we can sue our parents for our medical bills. They are responsible for our DNA and the habits we learned as children.

Call it Crazy says

First of all, who are you to dictate what he spends his money on?

In the divorce agreement of 1997, parents agreed to pay for college for Caitlyn.

Call it Crazy says

Second, who gives a shit what Grandpa did? If Grandpa jumped off of a bridge, should he jump too?

When your parents provide for you, and you can provide the same thing to your kids and choose not to, you're a lousy bastard and a shitty parent.

Also, they aren't claiming poverty. Which would look ridiculous based on their income levels AND the fact that they probably spent at least $10,000 on lawyers.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh... The "entitlement" mentality at it's finest!

How is that an entitlement, CIC? I'm really puzzled how.

Why would anyone want to have kids?

Call it Crazy says

It's not mandatory for a parent to pay for a college education.

According to New Jersey law, it is mandatory under certain conditions. Altho it sucks, it's the law and she sued to have it enforced.

Seriously - it doesn't matter whether grandpa paid for the father's tuition. It doesn't matter whether the parents are kind & caring or total assholes.

The law says they have to pay. Laws aren't always right.

Call it Crazy says

What HIS parents did for him has NO basis on what he has to do for his kids. Nothing!

Wow Crazy.

elliemae says

Seriously - it doesn't matter whether grandpa paid for the father's tuition. It doesn't matter whether the parents are kind & caring or total assholes.

I don't see kindness and caring have anything to do with it either.

This is about family. You do for your kids as good as, or hopefully better than, what was done for you.

Maybe this is a Jewish/Italian/Northeast thing (which is why the old Italian Grandpa is PO'd at the son).

The first time I encountered the "It's all you" mentality was in Florida, I was working at K-Mart as a kid, and I had a buddy who just graduated HS. He worked 40 hours at the store and another 8 hours delivering pizza. His parents refused to pay for even community college, but spent thousands of dollars on dog shows. I thought that was nuts. He broke his ankle playing basketball and they didn't help him with that either, though they let him live at home. He was only 18/19.

I'm thinking about a Jackie Mason routine, no way I'll find it on youtube probably.

elliemae says

The law says they have to pay. Laws aren't always right.

That's just insane. You take away a parent's right to choose how they raise their kids. There's nothing wrong with a parent who wants his child to be independent and self-supporting. That's how I was raised, and I survived.

I hope to be in a position to pay for my kids' college educations, but there are strings attached. They have to be good students; they have to have a solid plan on how their studies will translate into a job that will enable them to support themselves; they have to make responsible life choices.

If my kids choose to treat college as an opportunity to party 24-7, I think I should have the right to say "no." If they don't go to class, I should have the right to say "no." If they choose to major in something that barely qualifies them for a career at Starbucks, I should have the right to say "no." How much money I have at the time is irrelevant.

My job as a parent is to do my very best to make sure that my kids are ready to face the world as productive adults. By forcing a parent to pay for their adult child's college education, you take away the only leverage a parent has to exercise any discipline over a child who is over the age of 18. You are hurting them by telling young adults that they can act anyway they please and someone will be forced to continue to finance them.

Call it Crazy says

Unless you have an "entitlement" mentality, or believe in re-distribution of wealth.

Wow, dude, this is his own flesh and blood.

I just don't get it.

The problem is that for each one of those "stingy", sub-optimal parents there are plenty of others who can't even raise their kids through elementary school without government assistance and without their kids becoming criminals at a young age, and we support those with taxpayer money. Surely we cannot have the audacity to sue parents who did things mostly right until their kids reached adulthood and order them to give more money to their kids, can we? Doesn't sound right to me.

My bed time story was darkness!

Call it Crazy says

Also, think about this... What kid who was raised in a upper middle class family goes and sues their parents?

What does that say about the mindset of this little spoiled "princess"?

I'm guessing the grandparents were giving her ideas.

Call it Crazy says

I'm guessing you don't have any kids and are in the GenX or Gen Y age bracket...

Nope, I have a 1 year old but yes, I'm a Gen Xer - raised by Silents.

thunderlips11 says

Call it Crazy says

I'm guessing you don't have any kids and are in the GenX or Gen Y age bracket...

Nope, I have a 1 year old but yes, I'm a Gen Xer - raised by Silents.

I'm a Gen Xer, too, CIC! (Though raised by Boomers.)

turtledove says

I'm guessing the grandparents were giving her ideas.

I get the feeling this kid was probably mostly raised by her grandparents.

Damn right as to giving her ideas. If I paid for my son's education, and he refused to pay for his daughter's - my grandchild's - I'd seriously consider disowning his ass.

His membership in the Lips family is up for debate, to put it mildly, as far as I'm concerned.

Especially if he had a smart kid who got good grades when she went to community college, and her parents refused to send her to the best school she qualified to enter, even though her parents made nearly $300k/year and should be able to afford it all cash, easy no problem with plenty of money to spare.

This kid is not a drug addict. This kid is not a goof-off, any more than any other 18-21 year old is a goof-off.

The best the parents could come up with is that she underage drank once or twice, something I'm sure they never did, and it's not a good reason anyway. Curfew? If sent their daughter to a regular 4-year school, there would be no curfew. Why didn't they?

People talk about the real world. There are no curfews in the real world. I have never rented an apartment, even at 19 when I rented my first one, when the landlord knocked at 2AM and told me to go to sleep. Nobody pops out of the blue and reprimands you for staying up past your bedtime.

Again, if she can get into Temple, she may not be a genius, but she's no moron either. And they can afford it easily. They *Certainly* could have co-signed loans at the very least. Why didn't they?

I certainly would do whatever it took to help my granddaughter get into school. Even if I had to sell my house in retirement to do so.

And I'd be pissed like after drinking a six pack of Coors at my son, and wondering where I screwed up, or if his new wife is an expensive, controlling witch trying to break his relationship with his daughter.

Good for Grandpa, he's old school. Family First.

Call it Crazy says

The parents responsibility for schooling ends at High School graduation. College is optional for everyone! It's not mandatory for a parent to pay for a college education.

turtledove says

I hope to be in a position to pay for my kids' college educations, but there are strings attached. They have to be good students; they have to have a solid plan on how their studies will translate into a job that will enable them to support themselves; they have to make responsible life choices.

thunderlips11 says

Damn right as to giving her ideas. If I paid for my son's education, and he refused to pay for his daughter's - my grandchild's - I'd seriously consider disowning his ass.

I paid and am paying 100% for all of my kids college education. I don't see it as a choice. They look at the parents finances to determine wether or not the student receives any aid. If you don't qualify for any aid, and the parent refuses to pay the tuition, your kid is at a disadvantage.
I tell my kids I will pay for their college, they pay for their kids college, and it carries on generation after generation. The result, each generation receives education, and eventually ends up paying too.
Requiring parents to pay is not right.

It sounded like it was a contract in the divorce settlement that her tuition and college expenses would be paid for by the divorcing parents. They agreed to it then. Since there were no other conditions placed, then the child apparently has the right to choose her own school whatever the costs.

The grandparents are just facilitators in a side ring of the circus.

Mostly, these things are about the pettiness of the new wife(spouse) who rags on the husband to cut off the old wife and child. He may be a creep, but he also might be squeezed in a no win situation by the new ball and chain.

turtledove says

At what age do kids become adults now a days?

I think it's currently at 30, but some Millennials are trying to push it to 35.

thunderlips11 says

So let me get this straight. Parents make just shy of $300k between them, Father's College and private grammar school Education was paid for 100% by Grandpa, his father.

Yup. It is called freedom. It is life-if grandparents feel so strongly-they should pay.

While I might be having kids soon-am already planning to put away something in a college fund. But what if child decides he/she wants to study in Europe at the highest priced university and take a major in Pop Music. Should I be forced to pay quarter a million dollars just because I make a decent amount?? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Peter P says

Why would anyone want to have kids?

I'm certainly not having any.

Rin says

Peter P says

Why would anyone want to have kids?

I'm certainly not having any.

Neither am I!

While it's awesome that some parents pay for their kid's college, others don't want to. I don't think that they should be forced to do so.

Everyone has the right to live their own life and make their own choices... unless they live in New Jersey. Maybe that's why the taxes are so high - so they can pay lawmakers handsomely to pass more stupid-ass laws?

Call it Crazy says

Kids need to be taught early on (by their parents) that there is no "free lunch". If they want something, they're going to need to work for it or put together a plan of how they will accomplish that goal. It's the PARENTS responsibility/job to make the kids productive adults and not "entitled" leeches.

I would imagine kids who do go through college without any help from parents will be more successful in life. They are highly motivated, focused and goal oriented. My fear is they could drop out of college.

turtledove says

At what age do kids become adults now a days?

at the age when SS kicks in. The parents pass the torch to the govt.

Conclusion:

Father is not free not to pay for college since he signed a legal agreement during his 1997 divorce to pay for it.

Father is teaching his daughter hypocrisy, in that's it was okay for him to get free college from HIS father, but he feels no obligation to pay for his daughters.

bgamall4 says

The problem with the law is that married parents don't have to pay after age 18 yet divorced parents in NJ have to pay. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Doesn't matter Bgamall, college is stipulated in the 1997 divorce agreement.

Furthermore, NJ has that law to stop people from favoring their new spouse and children over kids from a former marriage.

By the way, dad makes six figures, so grandpa paying for college for dad didn't do him any harm as to his financial future. He's either whipped by his new spouse or a hypocritical bastard louse, one or the other

thunderlips11 says

college is stipulated in the 1997 divorce agreement.

Furthermore, NJ has that law to stop people from favoring their new spouse and children over kids from a former marriage.

I'm so glad that I'm not having any kids.

Just this statement above, will allow me to get a few more nights of rest.

Rin says

I'm so glad that I'm not having any kids.

Well, that's our loss, I mean that without sarcasm.

Some people have kids and treat them like shit, which is a danger to society. They use "Freedom" as an excuse to avoid their responsibility, while accusing their 19-year old kid of not being responsible.

Even if he never had anything about college in his divorce agreement, he'd still be a "Free" Piece of Shit.

thunderlips11 says

bgamall4 says

The problem with the law is that married parents don't have to pay after age 18 yet divorced parents in NJ have to pay. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Doesn't matter Bgamall, college is stipulated in the 1997 divorce agreement.

Furthermore, NJ has that law to stop people from favoring their new spouse and children over kids from a former marriage.

By the way, dad makes six figures, so grandpa paying for college for dad didn't do him any harm as to his financial future.

The only real solution to this mess is to make all education completely free. Its free until high school, why not until PhD's.? College is the new high school.

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh... the poor Princess not only wanted college paid for, but she also felt she was "entitled" to a new car!

Psyched! I'm getting more and more elated with this thread.

After listening to all that guilt tripping, by those around me, telling me that I should want to settle down and have kids, and now, I feel 100% vindicated :-) !

elliemae says

Maybe that's why the taxes are so high - so they can pay lawmakers handsomely to pass more stupid-ass laws?

NJ has a huge public employee retirement entitlement obligation. That's why taxes are so fucking high there, especially property taxes, which are insanely high there.

Call it Crazy says

I found out through Twitter that my daughter was attending Temple [University in Philadelphia]. Yes, Twitter. And now, even after her mother and I agreed that if Caitlyn transferred to a state college we would help her financially (even though she hasn’t spoken to us in almost two years), a judge is telling me that if my daughter wants to go to Temple, she can go

Temple is in the middle of North Philadelphia, more or less, the worst part of town ... urban blight all around.

Are her parents also paying for a security detail, so that she doesn't get raped or knifed on the way to classes?

I hope to pay for all three of my kids to attend college. Or arrange it another way. Currently my best idea is this: send the wife for her PhD since she's teaching college anyway, and then have her get a good professor job at a decent school. Then my kids can go there for free! It's a lot of things to hold together, but I believe the plan is solid. With the way tuitions are rising, paying for three kids through uni is going to be impossible otherwise.

I had to pay my own way through college an ended up with a lot of debt tha limited my options and took a while to pay back. I hope my kids will be more fortunate.

Rin says

Call it Crazy says

Ahhh... the poor Princess not only wanted college paid for, but she also felt she was "entitled" to a new car!

Psyched! I'm getting more and more elated with this thread.

After listening to all that guilt tripping, by those around me, telling me that I should want to settle down and have kids, and now, I feel 100% vindicated :-) !

Aren't you glad your parents thought differently?

Strategist says

Aren't you glad your parents thought differently?

My parents also had my sister, and lived to regret it. If you want a media facsimile, think of Rosie O'Donnell but on steroids (as well as coke and heroin).

Just because they won the lottery and had a future Leonardo DaVinci or Ben Franklin, as a son, doesn't mean that it's a reproducible phenomena, as my sister has proven.