patrick.net

It's not extreme to understand that U.S. Capitalism is broken.

Does it being broken mean we're all becoming serfs immediately ? Of course not. It's maybe even good for the market in the short term.

If it weren't broken the stock market might be lower than it is now. Go figure.

Even some of the 1%ers and many reputable economists have acknowledged the problem with the wealth disparity. It's obvious to anyone with a brain that this is a huge problem. Money isn't being invested in infrastructure or in education. Team logan wants to live of the residue of past successes and to hell with the long term future.

tatupu70 says

I can post inequality charts, corporate profits charts, real wages charts, et. al.

Bring those to Dinner ;-)

marcus says

Team logan

I have said this time and time again,

Low educated, Low skilled Americans need federal intervention, not state, Federal as the $ can be bigger, that isn't a very capitalist thing to say

My contention has been always. If everyone is supposed to be broke outside the 1% then the real poor don't get the help they need.

I could care less about the middle class, the data shows the poor are the ones that need help, but we don't push that agenda pushing fear, do it out strength as Bernie Sanders says, we are the wealthiest country in the world, some of programs are so small to do. :-)

HydroCabron says

tatupu70 says

How is pointing out issues with the US economy and desiring to get them fixed Anti American?

It is when "leftists" do it.

Hmmmm, I seem to remember being accused of anti-Americanism for pointing out various problems by somebody recently...

Okay, maybe I stand corrected about team logan.

Logan Mohtashami says

I could care less about the middle class

Well, the middle class is shrinking, 2 average sort of jobs aren't really enough to support a family any more. That's messed up. meanwhile corporate profits and the profits of the wealthy are exploding. There is no mechanism to address this. It's not as simple as higher taxes.

Meanwhile there are movements to privatize prisons, and public education, as if the problem is that somehow profits to executives in education will somehow make education more effective. That's not how it works for higher education ? Why should it for high school or elementary ?

How is it that we could afford to provide nearly free public college education 40 years ago, and now even the least expensive public universities cost tens of thousands per year ? All the cost that the government used to subsidize is now pushed on to the consumer. That's just plain stupid considering that the consumer of education is a future tax payer.

marcus says

Well, the middle class is shrinking,

because more people are making 100K, yes you're right

marcus says

That's not how it works for higher education ? Why should it for high school or elementary ?

All for free college but also add skill set training camp centers to help people upgrade into the 21st century again, really pushing for the poor here, College educated Americans base pay in 2015 median was 48K-54K not bad for a kid

This is damning evidence...

Logan Mohtashami says

tatupu70 says

lol--

Humans when they resort to that typing language (lol) internally know they have been beaten

Logan Mohtashami says

because more people are making 100K, yes you're right

100% incorrect, as usual. It's not because more people are making 100K. It's because more households have two incomes.

tatupu70 says

100% incorrect, as usual. It's not because more people are making 100K. It's because more households have two incomes.

College educated Dual Income = over 100K yes in coastal cities it's over 200K

This is why you shouldn't worry about the middle class because they're making more money

Focus on the poor

Those who never graduated High School, Never went to college, have a drug problem

Why are you guys worried about people who are buying cars, buying homes, having sex and making babies

Logan Mohtashami says

College educated Dual Income = over 100K yes in coastal cities it's over 200K

This is why you shouldn't worry about the middle class because they're making more money

Focus on the poor

Those who never graduated High School, Never went to college, have a drug problem

Why are you guys worried about people who are buying cars, buying homes, having sex and making babies

I'm just focused on trying to correct all the BS you are posting on here. You were 100% incorrect that more people are earning 100K in 2014 dollars now. I can't tell if you are purposely misleading or just don't know any better.

tatupu70 says

I'm just focused on trying to correct all the BS you are posting on here

Please show in this chart where Americans all of Sudden became a third world poor people

Honestly, you're making a great thesis for South America, you have the wrong country..

How in the world did Americans buy 100 Million cars and 40 Million homes if everyone is so poor in the last 8 years

Plus, if you think America's economy is the worst you really must hate the world

Fallacy of Logic is great here ...

Hence why retail sales, car sales and home sales are all at cycle highs and please don't make me post 80 years of consumption charts again

Logan Mohtashami says

Please show in this chart where Americans all of Sudden became a third world poor people

Please show me where I ever said America is a 3rd world country.

Logan Mohtashami says

Plus, if you think America's economy is the worst you really must hate the world

I don't think America's economy is the worst and I have certainly never said that.

tatupu70 says

Please show me where I ever said America is a 3rd world country.

There we go ... Ok ... Now that we have cleared the room of Americans not being dirt poor

Where on this chart did we become poor

Logan Mohtashami says

Fallacy of Logic is great here ...

All on your end. All you can do is make strawman arguments. That I'm un-American. Or hate America. Or think America's economy is the worst in the world.

Just try to stay on topic and we can have a good discussion.

tatupu70 says

strawman arguments.

Just give me a timeline on this chart where we lost it as a country

Logan Mohtashami says

There we go ... Ok ... Now that we have cleared the room of Americans being dirt poor

Where on this chart did we become poor

I've already told you the problem with that chart multiple times. Again--are you purposely being obtuse or are you being disingenuous?

The biggest problem is inequality. That chart shows the whole country so the gains of the 1% mask the real problem.

tatupu70 says

The biggest problem is inequality

You want Rich people to have less wealth, that would imply if the 1% just fell out the planet you have no issue with anything else then correct

For a country of 322 Million working 154 million that looks pretty good in 2016

Logan Mohtashami says

You want Rich people to have less wealth, that would imply if the 1% just fell out the planet you have no issue with anything else then correct

It depends on what you do with their wealth after they fall.

tatupu70 says

It depends on what you do with their wealth after they fall.

Photograph of an unknown man during the Depression c.1932

Do you guys and gals agree with me on this, people just dressed better back then even very poor men had coats and dressed properly ...

The best thing about being a permabull is you will catch all the bull markets.

And also if you're in the business of selling securities how are you going to profit from the opinion that there's a 50% or better chance of a major downturn ? Better to just not go there. Am I right ?

Logan Mohtashami says

College educated Dual Income = over 100K yes in coastal cities it's over 200K

This is why you shouldn't worry about the middle class because they're making more money

Okay, if that's your definition of middle class, then I guess you're right. 50 years ago, middle class was a painting contractor and a stay at home wife. Twenty years ago it was two 30k service sector jobs.

marcus says

The best thing about being a permabull is you will catch all the bull markets.

Slow and Steady wins the race, long term portfolio, I only invest $ each month, could care less what the economic cycle tells me 25 year from now I will collect.

The real trick is having the capacity the investment each month and maintain your current debt to income ratio and liability cost in check

Cycles come and go but recession for long term investors are just entry points at lower levels, 20 years I will make it more conservative.

marcus says

30k service sector jobs.

You seem like a reasonable man, can you see what I am trying to say :-)

Logan Mohtashami says

Wow--who is preaching fear now? That response is more typical of CIC or indig-I would have expected better of you Logan.

Logan Mohtashami says

And you see no problem with that chart? Really?

tatupu70 says

-I would have expected better of you Logan.

You're the one who said what happens to their wealth when they fall

Most Americans even my darkest Marxist wanna be friends believe in property ownership... only a few tea leaves hippies even question the notion of rent and mortgages.

Old school Socialism died a long time ago and even great families of the dark Russian empire love the mob life too much to keep any glimmer of hope alive

tatupu70 says

And you see no problem with that chart? Really?

No, I don't, manufacturing sole economy is a dying business and all the countries that held to that thesis are really having issue.

Now, I do give credit to the Chinese for getting the memo on this and trying to move to a service sector jobs

154 Million working and we are still the 2nd biggest manufacturing country in the world

Look at the battle against poverty globalization did

What happened to me

40 years old listening to Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata, drinking mineral water, writing an article about demographic economics and housing, posting charts of poverty decline, fighting Gold bugs on twitter...

Not what I thought in my 20's ;-)

Logan Mohtashami says

Most Americans even my darkest Marxist wanna be friends believe in property ownership... only a few tea leaves hippies even question the notion of rent and mortgages.

Old school Socialism died a long time ago and even great families of the dark Russian empire love the mob life too much to keep any glimmer of hope alive

And consider me among that club too. Last I checked the US had property ownership in the 1960s. That's the US economy I want.

Complete with rent, ownership, capitalism. So, please try again.

Also, with respect to your demographics argument. In the mid sixties, say 1966, looking forward at that time, wasn't the next 15 years going to see a HUGE HUGE increase in the 25 to 54 demgraphic ? The oldest boomers were then about 20. Markets are forward looking. Why did the staock market go into s secular downturm for 16 years.

I'm not saying it's because of the boomers. But if your theory is mostly built on that, it does refute it fairly well. It seems like the real boom was after the economy had finished absorbing the baby boom.

Any you guys and gals like art, I post historical photos timeline to history and historical art work each night

Any favorites you guys or gals have?

Logan Mohtashami says

No, I don't, manufacturing sole economy is a dying business and all the countries that held to that thesis are really having issue.

You can never have an honest discussion, can you? Nobody is talking about a sole manufacturing economy. The US is moving closer to a sole service economy. That is not sustainable.

marcus says

I'm not saying it's because of the boomers. But if your theory is mostly built on that, it does refute fairly well. It seems like the real boom was after the economy had finished absorbing the baby boom

How did you think we great from 2 Trillion to 19 Trillion from 1978 to now... 1980's and 1990's demographics was great that stopped in 2007.

Now the irony of Trump is that 90% of the labor force growth coming in the next 10 years are coming from Hispanics, if we didn't have Hispanics we would look like Japan 1994

tatupu70 says

You can never have an honest discussion, can you?

When I take you out to Dinner, Husband permitting, you and I are going to have a wonderful conversation about this

tatupu70 says

Nobody is talking about a sole manufacturing economy.

2nd biggest manufacturing country in the world, it's roughly 8.61% of the total work force.

Outside a trade war, not sure we want to grow that base, should focus 100% on green energy

Logan Mohtashami says

When I take you out to Dinner, Husband permitting, you and I are going to have a wonderful conversation about this

Your trolling needs some work too.