patrick.net

rando says

Salman Abedi. Born in Manchester in 1994, the second youngest of four children his parents were Libyan refugees who came to the UK to escape the Gaddafi regime. His parents were both born in Libya but appear to have emigrated to London before moving to the Fallowfield area of south Manchester where they have lived for at least ten years.

This is gratitude, the Islamic way. Crazy pedophile loving lunatics.

YesYNot says

Those arguments ignore history.

You seem to be ignoring Islamic history.

rando says

errc says

If someone points out the harm and suffering caused here at home by Christians, wish death upon them!

No, Islam is the religion of peace. I was just wishing you more peace by wishing you more Islam.

Oh, my bad. Here I thought you were arguing that Islam demands that their followers kill all the infidels. After I gave some undisputed, real world examples of Christians causing harm, you got all triggered and wished death upon me.

Notice, I've yet to defend Islam. But this is exactly how Real Christians react to facts. They wish death on others. It's fucking sad, and I'm arguing in favor of stopping religious institutions from harming people. I'm not sure what exactly you're arguing in favor of, although it seems that you're fighting to suppress sny Speech that sheds less than positive light on Christianity.

I hope you never left your son alone in a Christian church, with a priest. God save you, if you have.

remember when Jesus was concieved? His mother was a virgin, how very scientific of your Home Team religion, Rocky

rando says

You seem to be ignoring Islamic history

I'm simply pointing out that nobody even bothers to defend the actions of Christians over the last 2000 years. Nobody even acknowledges the need to do so. There must be a reason for it.

errc says

and wished death upon me.

No, once again I wished Islam upon you, the religion of peace, right? If you think that Islam might not be a religion of peace, please say so. I would not want to wish anything on you that you object to.

I'm not a believing Christian by the way. I just happen to have actually read and considered the examples and arguments in the New Testament and found them greatly superior to the Koran's incitement to hate and kill.

errc says

you're fighting to suppress sny Speech

Have I suppressed your speech?

errc says

Notice, I've yet to defend Islam.

That's wrong. You have very clearly defended Islam by your tacit approval of the mass murder in Manchester. Your silence about the murders speaks volumes.

rando says

errc says

Notice, I've yet to defend Islam.

That's wrong. You have very clearly defended Islam by your tacit approval of the mass murder in Manchester. Your silence about the murders speaks volumes.

Wow, just wow. My approval of the mass murder? What other words do you want to put in my mouth this afternoon.

Here's an idea. Some of us are better than others at identifying actual threats. Have you ever heard the term " to have a healthy fear of something "? As an American living in the real world, I'm simply using facts and reality to do a cost benefit analysis on what i should actually worry about. Like getting maimed by a Christian drunk driver, or the 1200+ poor souls that died last year due to Opiod overdose in Philadelphia alone, after their Christian doctors prescribed them highly addictive pain meds, instead of say, medical cannabis, which this Christian society will kill you for utilizing. Or maybe kill your neighbor on accident, when they serve a no knock warrant at the wrong address. I'm worried for my teens driving on the roads, where tens of millions of obese ( one of eight of the seven deadly sins) Christians are driving about very dangerously looking at their phones.

Islamic terror in the Middle East is barely a blip on the radar. I mean, it might have been a problem worth concerning over, until Trump left Saudi Arabia off the Muslim ban list and i knew it was all a ruse.

You could use a breath of fresh air snd some perspective, put the keyboard down for a little why don't you

errc says

My approval of the mass murder?

Let me look it up for you:

Tacit approval is a form of approval that is not expressed clearly, in words. It is silent approval. It is approval that is implied by other statements, actions or by a failure to clearly express disapproval with the situation, performance, idea, plan or request.

So what's with your tacit approval of the mass murder in Manchester?

BTW, in accordance with your wishes, I hope no one ever treats you in a Christian way. (If I were a real Christian, I could not even say such a thing.)

rando says

I think you're arguing that splattering the bodies of teen girls with explosives is somehow no worse than celibacy for priests.

I don't know how you could reach conclusion.

Because you brought it up as an explicit comparison to the carnage in Manchester.

I do not approve of the mass murder in Manchester, or any mass murder, for that matter.

What is it with your tacit approval of the Institutional little boy penis touching of tens of thousands of young boys, by your beloved Christians?

i get that you're just another Christian defending your fairy tale of choice, but you ought be smart enough to see it for what it is. However, this is the problem with Christians: their religion demands that you abandon reason and thought, for unquestioned beliefs.

Remember the virgin birth lmao

BTW, in accordance with your wishes, I hope no one ever treats you in a Christian way. (If I were a real Christian, I could not even say such a thing.)

--------------

I'd pray to a God if I was gullible enough to believe in such nonsense, that no Christian ever impose their Christianity upon me, but alas, it's virtually impossible to escape the suffering wrought by Christians on this once great nation

I brought it as an example of religious beliefs, other than Muslim, leading to horrible things. Nowhere did I classify or imply which is worse.

Dan8267 says

CBOEtrader says

The most murderous group in recent history are the communists, who were united in their atheism.

Like clockwork, the pro-delusion side repeats this debunked lie. Tom Selleck and Charlie Chaplin are the most dangerous despots ever.

And all these things, from the ancient to today, are intrinsic to religion. The hatred of gays, the torturing of religious opponents, the destruction of knowledge, the suppression of women are all done specifically because the religion demands it. In contrast, Stalin's and Mao's evil was solely due to imperialistic greed, not atheism, and is not supported by atheists or even acknowledged as atheist philosophy.

So the fact that Stalin was an atheist is as relevant as the fact that he had a mustach...

Like clockwork Dan trots out the red herring of mustaches being more important characteristics than ideas. Clearly the idea(s) of communism are relevant motivators to what communists do. while mustaches are evidence of people's motivation (to look like cops or porn stars or badasses depending on your opinion of mustaches), NOT the source of their motivation. The master of fallacious arguments strikes again, are you not ashamed of the endless fallacies you sling around.

but to the point of this thread, clearly the teachings and ideas of Islamists continue to spread hatred and violence throughout the world.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

Dan said: "And all these things, from the ancient to today, are intrinsic to religion. The hatred of gays, the torturing of religious opponents, the destruction of knowledge, the suppression of women are all done specifically because the religion demands it."

I agree Dan religion APPEARS to motivate SOME people (though clearly not all) who practice religion to hate, torture, etc... (Though I would argue that hatred, and violence comes from within the human heart rather than from outside it). But the question I have for you is what motivates atheists to kill and imprison people of faith?

There is plenty of violence and hate in this world that has nothing to do with religion.

That being said, Islam was and is used to promote violence and enslavement of non-moslems. And it really isn't any better for moslems, they have to live under sharia.

So if solving the Islamic problem is the hill you wish to die on (or more likely, send someone else's son to die on in the name of MIC profits and Christian delusions), what is the solution?

As Bellingham Bill used to say," Nezzuna solucion, Nunca problema"

errc says

I do not approve of the mass murder in Manchester

Thank you. Why the great reluctance to say it? Closet Muslim?

For the record, of course I object to all child abuse. The difference here is that child abuse is not officially part of Christianity, while it is in fact officially part of Islam from the moment when Mohammed fucked 9 year old Ayesha. He's the "example for all of humanity" you know.

And sex with children is explicitly approved of by Islamic scholars down to the present day:

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister.
Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"

May Islam be with you all the time.

Have I suppressed your speech?

------------

Not yet, however you got oddly nasty at the notion that America should get it's house in order before we go making another mess of someone else's house. Parlay that with pointing out the evil in Christianity, and you immediately wished death upon me. Again odd for someone who is generally quite reasonable and rational, and oft open to any ideas or possibilities.

Not here, though. Speaking truth to the failings of Christianity really triggered the fuck out of you. Why?

FP says

I brought it as an example of religious beliefs, other than Muslim, leading to horrible things. Nowhere did I classify or imply which is worse.

You brought it up as an example of religious harm explicitly as a comparison to the carnage in Manchester. Why else would you bring it up in a thread about Manchester?

errc says

Speaking truth to the failings of Christianity really triggered the fuck out of you. Why?

No, it's your failure to condemn the carnage caused by a Muslim in the name of Islam. Don't really mind what you say about Christianity.

errc says

So if solving the Islamic problem is the hill you wish to die on (or more likely, send someone else's son to die on in the name of MIC profits and Christian delusions), what is the solution?

The solution is very simple.

Speak the truth about Islam. Do not give Muslims your tacit approval for the next murder, and the next, and the next...

No violence required. No war. Just honesty and courage.

If Christianity is so bad then where are the Christian suicide bombers?

he difference here is that child abuse is not officially part of Christianity

------------

What in the fuck would it take for you to make it official? How many children have been diddled by the church? Too many to count?

I bet if you ask any of the hundreds of thousands of kids that were sexually assualted by Christians figure heads, they'd describe it as a fate worse than death. The trouble with getting data on it, is that many of the kids end up committing suicide. One of the Eight, Seven deadly sins. So it's odd that the church promotes Assisted Suicide in this instance, but not when a supposed free person chooses to end the suffering and check out on their own terms, huh?

I'd wager more American kids have died from suicide after being diddled by a Christian, than have died at the hands of Islamic terrorists. And that's stunning, given history and numbers. There's over a billion Muslims out there. Anyone wanna take that bet

Dan8267 says

The New Testament is pro-slavery and was used as an argument for slavery by the South. And quite frankly, if you can't even get the issue of slavery right, you're a shit source of morality.

Dan, the whole world was pro-Slavery before William Wilburforce. Pagans had slavery, buddhists had slavery, Mongols had slavery, Muslims were the World Record Kings of Slavery, the Aztecs had entire slave peoples, etc. etc.

errc, child rape is a horrific act, every bit as evil as blowing people up. However, Christians don't cheer when a priest rapes a boy. Islamists however DO cheer when another "martyr" (aka coward) blows up more innocent people or mows them down in a stolen truck like the losers these Islamists are.

rando says

errc says

So if solving the Islamic problem is the hill you wish to die on (or more likely, send someone else's son to die on in the name of MIC profits and Christian delusions), what is the solution?

The solution is very simple.

Speak the truth about Islam. Do not give Muslims your tacit approval for the next murder, and the next, and the next...

No violence required. No war. Just honesty and courage.

Lmao yea, that'll do it.

So where is the honesty and courage of all you Trumpcucks to take him to task wrt Saudi Arabia? Islamic terrorism begins and ends with Saudi funding. Trump blew a bunch of hot air about being tough on Muslims, then turned around and bent over for the Saudis, while banning Iranians. Wtf?

The problem here seems to be Christianity and the proclivity of its adherents to abandon all facts and reason, for a belief system, marketed by charlatans for their own personal profits. They know you's are easy marks, nice, gullible people, that they use and sexually abuse

PeopleUnited says

errc, child rape is a horrific act, every bit as evil as blowing people up. However, Christians don't cheer when a priest rapes a boy. Islamists however DO cheer when another "martyr" (aka coward) blows up more innocent people or mows them down like the losers they are in a stolen truck.

Christian figureheads cover it up, and accuse the child victims of lying, or even blame them as if it's their fault.

Christian Priest to congregation: " we must pray, and forgive, Father O'Leary, for his sins. But can you blame him? Look at that sweet little boy with that delicious little penis! Now we must move Father O'Leary to a different church where he is free to molest other unsuspecting, vulnerable children! Don't forget to donate to the cause."

Congregation: "Amen!"

errc says

Islamic terrorism begins and ends with Saudi funding.

If you can prove this, then America needs to know. When will I be reading about it on CNN or watching it on nightly news? I'm not saying I disagree, but I want proof.

errc says

PeopleUnited says

errc, child rape is a horrific act, every bit as evil as blowing people up. However, Christians don't cheer when a priest rapes a boy. Islamists however DO cheer when another "martyr" (aka coward) blows up more innocent people or mows them down like the losers they are in a stolen truck.

Christian figureheads cover it up, and accuse the child victims of lying, or even blame them as if it's their fault.

Christian Priest to congregation: " we must pray, and forgive, Father O'Leary, for his sins. But can you blame him? Look at that sweet little boy with that delicious little penis! Now we must move Father O'Leary to a different church where he is free to molest other unsuspecting, vulnerable children! Don't forget to donate to the cause."

Congregation: "Amen!"

What kind of comic books do you read? In reality, the Catholics hate the sex scandals if for only this reason, it is costing them a lot of money!

You know who can stop future terror attacks?

www.youtube.com/embed/pKiB8-2LK6s

rando says

You brought it up as an example of religious harm explicitly as a comparison to the carnage in Manchester. Why else would you bring it up in a thread about Manchester?

Not as a comparison, but as an example that other mainstream religions are also very harmful. You think a few verses in the quoran are the root cause of evil. I think it is the state of indoctrination and blind belief. Religious texts can and have been interpreted in different ways throughout human history. Today some interpretations of Islam are the most savage. But this can change. The Bible is full of stories of genocide.

The Associated Press estimated the settlements of sex abuse cases from 1950 to 2007 totaled more than $2 billion.[105] BishopAccountability puts the figure at more than $3 billion in 2012.[54][102]

------------

$3 billion worth of christian figureheads practicing what they preach

Ouch

YesYNot says

rando says

You seem to be ignoring Islamic history

I'm simply pointing out that nobody even bothers to defend the actions of Christians over the last 2000 years. Nobody even acknowledges the need to do so. There must be a reason for it.

If you are referring to holy crusades, that's in the past. In those days there was all kinds of problems and Christianity was not as developed as it is today.

But Islam today, they are constantly trying to murder everyone... that's today, not 2000 years ago. But today.

Dan8267 says

Your example proves my point.

You don't have a point. If your's had been the ascendant attitude 75 years ago, we would have never defeated Naziism, the Japs and later Communism--our parents and grandparents kept the faith and won the day. Today's generation isn't so much not keeping the faith but throwing it away like so much rubbish and that's why the West is knuckling under to Islam all over the world. Islam has never had a crisis of faith.

rando says

errc says

So if solving the Islamic problem is the hill you wish to die on (or more likely, send someone else's son to die on in the name of MIC profits and Christian delusions), what is the solution?

The solution is very simple.

Speak the truth about Islam. Do not give Muslims your tacit approval for the next murder, and the next, and the next...

No violence required. No war. Just honesty and courage.

It's much more complicated when you have 1.6 billion people on earth who consider themselves to practice Islam. I guarantee you would be practicing Islam if you were born in the Middle East. This is why our daughter is being raised without religious brainwashing of any form. I think the 3rd largest religion below Christianity and Islam is ... no religion. islam and Christianity are both just battling it out for survival against secularism. Hopefully scientific secularism wins out before the major religions blow up the world battling it out over ancient texts written by neanderthals.

P N Dr Lo R says

"alternative lifestyles". Now these people, in their 50's, 60's and older are in the most influential positions of media, education and entertainment and can propagandize from those soap boxes.

If our society had the solidarity like that which existed between 1939 and 1945

Although I Like some of your other comments, sometimes you revert to Texas Christian divisiveness, and illustrate errc's and Dan's points about how Christianity can be misused.

I've been wondering why America lacks the solidarity of the 1939-45 period a lot, and I think a surprisingly big part of it results from President Eisenhower's decision to put "under God" and "In God We Trust" on everything. He did that at the behest of Knights of Columbus, btw; expressly not a charity, they do the Pope's dirty work in America, including financing politicians and ballot initiatives. Eisenhower meant well, hoping it would unify Americans against godless communism, but it backfired.

People disagree profoundly about religion, and changing the pledge of allegiance resulted in immediate litigation. The Supreme Court ruled you can't punish kids for not saying "under God." Maybe in Texas the schools had already been doing that and nobody dared complain, but when Eisenhower imposed that rule nationwide, pushback started immediately.

Similarly, the founders deliberately rejected putting "In God We Trust" on the currency, but today's Identitarian Christians have forgotten to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

By attempting to impose Christianity on everyone, identitarian Christians produce a backlash, and secularists fall into the trap of mistaking the enemy of their enemy for their friend. Secularists rebelling against Christian overreach end up embracing, of all things hijrah. It makes no sense if you step back and look at it, but they are caught up in the struggle.

To give you an example of the lethal consequences, consider the Clinton & W administration policy "don't ask don't tell." Highly qualified personnel including Army translators were forced out of the military during the Iraq war. The Army had to rely then on local Iraqi contractors, who tended to be Muslims with tribal and sectarian loyalty of their own. They were literally lying to American soldiers and denouncing as "terrorists" people who were trying to help the Americans. It was tragic. Americans using American forces, killed Iraqis who had been trying to help Americans. Other Iraqis saw this, and got the message. They stopped helping Americans, because they saw that their information would get "lost in translation" and used against them.

If you want to see America unify like it did in 1939-45, then quit pretending that the way of life your church teaches, and which you don't even follow yourself, is the only way or even the best way. Churchill said the reason Christendom is stronger than the Muslim world is precisely because Christianity is more tolerant. Every day, public schools teach evolution and geology, directly contradicting Genesis and the whole 'young earth' crowd (including VP Pence). Some Christians protest and homeschool their kids, but they don't blow up the schools. The biggest advantage America and other potentially allied countries have is that more people can have a stake in the success of these countries compared to the Islamic countries, where most people are oppressed. Texas Christians get in their echo chambers and forget that fact, and legislate in ways that backfire terribly.

YesYNot says

So, even though I'm an atheist, I didn't grow up in the absence of religion.

You make a good point there, and I should give marcus credit for a similar point. Americans grow up amid a Christian majority. That doesn't make America officially a Christian country, but it does have a majority Christian culture. Even atheists who grow up in America tend to have a more Christian view of what is acceptable than they would if they grew up in, for example, an Islamic culture.

If you were born in an Islamic country to Muslim parents, and your parents and government and peers told you all your life that killing apostates and blasphemers (including atheists) was absolutely necessary and sacred, you might have very different attitudes and behaviors compared to growing up in America.

The Media is a bunch of Sick Fucks.

Also, when everybody is TRIBAL except your civilization, then you have a major problem.

TRIBAL loyalists will immigrate into your non-tribal civilization and try to impose their Tribal beliefs.

curious2 says

If you were born in an Islamic country to Muslim parents, and your parents and government and peers told you all your life that killing apostates and blasphemers (including atheists) was absolutely necessary and sacred, you might have very different attitudes and behaviors compared to growing up in America.

All of which would make you unsuitable for polite western society, right?

Modern Secular Liberal Materialists can't appreciate that Very Religious, Very Honor Centered Bandit Marauder cultures actually exist. This why there are so many SJWs. They feel that they are simply downtrodden Brown People who don't have as much stuff.