patrick.net

Dan8267 says

Again, half the democrats were for the war. All the republicans were for the war.

No one voted for war. This is just idiotic. There was no declaration of war. They voted for a resolution to give the president authorization to FIND who was responsible, then use all necessary and appropriate force. It wasn't a hunting permit to wage war on countries and groups that weren't responsible for 9/11 just because bush thought they would be easy pickings to pump up his image. No where does the resolution say anything about weapons of mass destruction or establishing democracy. Al queda attacked the US, not the taliban. Saudi arabia financed and supported al queda, not Iraq. Pursuing the real perpetrators would have been a long hard grind done mostly in secret. Plus it would have meant standing up to the saudi's. Not nearly as sexy or vote gathering as sending in the troops then standing on an aircraft carrier declaring mission accomplished. Not to mention taking control of the worlds second largest ail reserves after knocking off hussein.

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

jazz_music says

PeopleUnited says

Obama did nothing to seriously change laws or restrict firearms

8 years

Just let that sink in for a little while.

Obama was gun salesman of the year for 8 years. What is your point?

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Including some of the most prominent and powerful politicians in the party and the nation, it is a who's who of the Democrat party:


Chuck Schumer


Hillary Clinton


John Kerry


Joe Lieberman


Chris Dodd


Joe Biden


Diane Feinstien


Harry Reid

But these people aren't evil right Dan????

Again, half the democrats were for the war. All the republicans were for the war.

If you want to call the democrats evil, first you have to call the republicans the far greater evil. Anything less is hypocrisy.

Remember, it is the Republicans who lied about WMD and terrorist association.

The most powerful Democrats support the war. That is the point. They are just as guilty as any other Senator. Only bush and his lies are worse.

bob2356 says

This is just idiotic. There was no declaration of war.

America has fought nothing but undeclared wars for the past 70 years. This isn't new.

The Senate still funds these undeclared wars. That vote count came directly from the United States Senate and this resolution was exactly the authorization to wage war in Iraq.

You are attempting to rewrite history.

Bump.

Alltruth is that petty little Jive ass that comes around and harangues me every political season.
Aint that right Hussein? You Commie Floor smooching prick why don't you go back to you own damned country?
That's what you foreigners will never ever get about America.

Being born American is different than being American by geographic location. American History is just stories to you. American History is our ancestors.

Freewill and All, come and take it from us Motherfucker!

Dan8267 says

The Senate still funds these undeclared wars.

Both Repukes and Demoncrats.

PeopleUnited says

Dan8267 says

The Senate still funds these undeclared wars.

Both Repukes and Demoncrats.

But obviously not equally, so it's not a wash. That's a lie. One party is half full of despicable people. The other party is completely full of despicable people. There is no equivalency.

Let me put this in terms that you will understand. Some Christians commit murder in the name of their religion. A far greater percentage of Muslims commit murder in the name of their religion. Are Christianity and Islam equal?

Cut your hypocrisy.

In the next Constitution, all Congressional authorizations and declarations have to have an expiration date. Congress can renew with a simple majority vote, but it can't make any law or authorization permanent until specifically repealed.

I think we'd have some very interesting debates if all Congressional Activity had a 10 year maximum.

For example, Obama would have faced vetoing or not vetoing the Bush AUF vis-a-vis Afghanistan.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

Dan8267 says

The Senate still funds these undeclared wars.

Both Repukes and Demoncrats.

But obviously not equally, so it's not a wash. That's a lie. One party is half full of despicable people. The other party is completely full of despicable people. There is no equivalency.

Let me put this in terms that you will understand. Some Christians commit murder in the name of their religion. A far greater percentage of Muslims commit murder in the name of their religion. Are Christianity and Islam equal?

Cut your hypocrisy.

The democrats tolerate and even promote those who voted for the war to the top of their party. The ones who didn't support the war are complicit. Just as the muslims who tolerate the terrorists and support the Imams who preach violence are complicit.

PeopleUnited says

The democrats tolerate and even promote those who voted for the war to the top of their party. The ones who didn't support the war are complicit. Just as the muslims who tolerate the terrorists and support the Imams who preach violence are complicit.

Again, you are attempting to rewrite history. Half on one party is evil. All of the other party is evil. It's not hard to tell which is the lesser of the two evils by far.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

The democrats tolerate and even promote those who voted for the war to the top of their party. The ones who didn't support the war are complicit. Just as the muslims who tolerate the terrorists and support the Imams who preach violence are complicit.

Again, you are attempting to rewrite history. Half on one party is evil. All of the other party is evil. It's not hard to tell which is the lesser of the two evils by far.

Chuck Schumer

Hillary Clinton

John Kerry

Joe Lieberman

Chris Dodd

Joe Biden

Diane Feinstien

Harry Reid

These people are the leaders of your party. You are deceptive, self deceived and in denial.

PeopleUnited says

You are deceptive, self deceived and in denial.

You're projecting. You are also the only one using deception.

I've called for the DNC establishment to be overthrown. See my new classic thread The path to victory in the seventh party system.

Nonetheless, half of the Democratic senators and representatives are evil. ALL of the Republican senators and representatives are evil. A quarter to a tenth of the Democratic voters are evil. 80% or more of the Republican voters are evil.

Arguing that the other team is not flawless does not excuse the atrocities of your team. The two teams are not on the same level, not by far. Team blue has some evil players. Team red is pure evil and exists solely for evil. Team blue is corrupt and needs to be cleansed by the blue fans. Team red will destroy the world at the becking of the red fans.

Chuck Schumer

Hillary Clinton

John Kerry

Joe Lieberman

Chris Dodd

Joe Biden

Diane Feinstien

Harry Reid

These people are the democrat party. Arguing that the Republicans are evil while ignoring that the other party is dominated by evil people is pointless. They are both evil and selling the American people a bag a lies. You are promoting one party. I acknowledge that both are to blame. It is disingenuous to blame on party when the other party is complicit. Any one of the above could have stood up and made a national argument against the war. NONE OF THEM DID. instead they voted for it, just as their puppetmasters told them to. And you support them, just as you are told to do.

Threads that have to be declared 'classic' by the author because nobody else will, usually aren't...

Dan8267 says

See my new classic thread

BlueSardine says

See my new classic thread The path to victory in the seventh party system.

Exactly. And I don't visit threads where the author censors.

BlueSardine says

Threads that have to be declared 'classic' by the author because nobody else will, usually aren't...

Dan8267 says

See my new classic thread

Aren't new and classic opposites? Just saying.

bob2356 says

BlueSardine says

Threads that have to be declared 'classic' by the author because nobody else will, usually aren't...

Dan8267 says

See my new classic thread

Aren't new and classic opposites? Just saying.

This is a ban able offense!

BlueSardine says

Threads that have to be declared 'classic' by the author because nobody else will, usually aren't...

If you had any real arguments to make, you would have done that instead of whining.

PeopleUnited says

Exactly. And I don't visit threads where the author censors.

1. You weren't the one invited.
2. I don't give a shit.
3. There is no censorship. You are just whining.

bob2356 says

Aren't new and classic opposites? Just saying.

It's called an oxymoron. It's a common literary mechanic. In this case implying that although a thread is recent, it's an instant classic. And yes, that's self-promotion, but guess what, you are exposed to such promotions hundreds of times a day.

errc says

This is a ban able offense!

Straw man argument. I've only banned people for being trolls (like you) or for constant repeating of debunked lies.

I've also always followed the policy of allowing such people to be unbanned if they choose to change their ways. You have to choose to continue acting like a child to be kept on the ban. But of course, few such immature people are even capable of changing.

PeopleUnited says

These people are the democrat party. Arguing that the Republicans are evil while ignoring that the other party is dominated by evil people is pointless.

None of the Democrats you sited are nearly as evil as ANY of the current leaders of the Republican Party, the leaders of the GOP from 10 or 20 years ago, or the Trump administration. Not even Hillary Clinton.

Furthermore, the policies of the Republican Party are far more evil than anything that has come out of the Democratic Party since the two parties switched roles.

Finally, the overall vileness of Republican voters is far greater than the overall vileness of Democratic voters. Anyone who is for torture and raping prisoners, many of which are innocent, is almost certainly a Republican. Your party is the party of evil, plain and simple. And if Christianity didn't make you so morally bankrupted, you'd admit this.

Dan8267 says

bob2356 says

Aren't new and classic opposites? Just saying.

It's called an oxymoron. It's a common literary mechanic

Really? It's called an oxymoron? Well bless my soul the things you learn on patnet every day from such really smart people. If I hadn't learned about oxymoron in 1967 or so I would be super impressed.

Websters says oxymoron is :a combination of words that have opposite or very different meanings

Just like I said.

Dan8267 says

And yes, that's self-promotion, but guess what, you are exposed to such promotions hundreds of times a day.

Since you are the undisputed champion of self promotion I defer to your far superior personal knowledge of the subject.

Instant classic. That's just too funny. You are certainly a legend in your own mind.

bob2356 says

Instant classic. That's just too funny. You are certainly a legend in your own mind.

Yes, we get it. You hate me. Nobody gives a shit, so get over it.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

These people are the democrat party. Arguing that the Republicans are evil while ignoring that the other party is dominated by evil people is pointless.

None of the Democrats you sited are nearly as evil as ANY of the current leaders of the Republican Party, the leaders of the GOP from 10 or 20 years ago, or the Trump administration. Not even Hillary Clinton.

Furthermore, the policies of the Republican Party are far more evil than anything that has come out of the Democratic Party since the two parties switched roles.

Finally, the overall vileness of Republican voters is far greater than the overall vileness of Democratic voters. Anyone who is for torture and raping prisoners, many of which are innocent, is almost certainly a Republican. Your party is the party of evil, plain and simple. And if Christianity didn't make you so morally bankrupted, you'd admit this.

That is like saying Stalin is not as evil as Hitler because of your own person bias. It is absurd. Both parties are full of lying, sold out, warmongering cronies. Stalin is just as evil as Hitler, and Democrats are just as evil as republicans.

PeopleUnited says

That is like saying Stalin is not as evil as Hitler because of your own person bias.

Another lie. It's saying that Stalin was evil because he was power hungry. Sure Hitler was power hungry as well, but the Holocaust was absolutely religiously motivated just like 9/11 was. Stalin killing his political rivals was not motivated by atheism.

You are whitewashing history and making straw man arguments. You are a pathological liar.

PeopleUnited says

Democrats are just as evil as republicans.

Voting for the act that made torture U.S. policy.

Party Yea Nay Abstain
Republican 211 3 5
Democratic 145 62 4
Independent 1 1
TOTALS 357 66 9

Not even close.

Democrats are just as evil as republicans.
Voting for the act that made torture U.S. policy.

Party Yea Nay Abstain
Republican 211 3 5
Democratic 145 62 4
Independent 1 1
TOTALS 357 66 9

This is just more proof of the FACT that democrats are just as evil if not more so than republicans. The Democrats are bought and paid for just like the republicans. So they take turns voting for the policies that their overlords tell them to. In the end EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT might as well have voted for it because enough of them did that it iNSURED PASSAGE of this law you demonize. You don't like it? THANK THE DEMOCRATS GENIUS!!! It wouldn't have passed without them. Eat that for supper.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

That is like saying Stalin is not as evil as Hitler because of your own person bias.

Another lie. It's saying that Stalin was evil because he was power hungry. Sure Hitler was power hungry as well, but the Holocaust was absolutely religiously motivated just like 9/11 was. Stalin killing his political rivals was not motivated by atheism.

You are whitewashing history and making straw man arguments. You are a pathological liar.

No Dan, you are lying by claiming that Hitler is worse that Stalin. That is simply your flawed opinion.

Stalin is responsible for the murder of at least twice as many people as Hitler. His motivation for killing them by defining them as political rivals is the EXACT same thing Hitler did. Hitler knew the Jews would never join his ranks, and therefore he saw them as enemies. The are both murderous dictators and equally foul stains on humanity. Your attempts to portray one as worse than the other is your whitewashing of history. You are the most prodigious pathological liar on this site. The most amazing part is that you believe your lies.

PeopleUnited says

No Dan, you are lying by claiming that Hitler is worse that Stalin.

I never made such claim. Are you incapable of being truthful?

You are lying by claiming that religion was not the prime factor in the Holocaust of the Jews. This is a grotesque lie that whitewashes history.

PeopleUnited says

You are the most prodigious pathological liar on this site. The most amazing part is that you believe your lies.

Oh, I get it. Whenever I point out and debunk your lies, you take whatever I say about you and without evidence accuse me of it. I think that's the "I'm rubber and your glue" defense. Didn't O.J. use that defense? I didn't murder my wife. You did. I'm out of order? This whole court is out of order!

Talking to you is like talking to a petulant child.

Dan8267 says

You are lying by claiming that religion was not the prime factor in the Holocaust of the Jews. This is a grotesque lie that whitewashes history

You would have to define what you mean in order the have a rational conversation about this.
Hitler killed people because of his religion? or Jews were killed because of their religion? What are you saying?

Also: So we are clear, Hitler is just as evil as Stalin in Dan's world?

Dan8267 says

Arguing that the other team is not flawless does not excuse the atrocities of your team.

Arguing that in your opinion the other team has more supporters of atrocity does not change the fact that the atrocity could not have occurred without the EXPRESS COOPERATION of your team.

PeopleUnited says

Also: So we are clear, Hitler is just as evil as Stalin in Dan's world?

I don't have precise measurements of the evilness of individuals, nor is there even any unit to measure it by.

What I can say is that both have done great evils, but only one was motivated by religion and the other was motivated solely by political power. That's the difference. Stalin did not kill people because of atheist beliefs. Hitler did kill Jews because of his religious beliefs just like ISIS members kills people because of their religious beliefs. To deny this is a lie.

PeopleUnited says

Arguing that in your opinion the other team has more supporters of atrocity does not change the fact that the atrocity could not have occurred without the EXPRESS COOPERATION of your team.

That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing that in a two party system where everyone in one party is in favor of committing atrocities and half the members of the other party oppose those atrocities, the second party is the wiser and more moral choice. If forced between choosing between two evils, always choose the lesser of the two evils.

Also, the team did not cooperate. Half the team cooperates, and that half are cowards, but the other half opposed. Meanwhile, your team orchestrated the entire atrocity. So, no, you don't get to claim any moral high ground or that it's a wash.

jazz_music says

Especially when one party advertises that evil is going to be your salvation.

Evil infiltrated the Democratic Party. Evil is the Republican Party platform.

jazz_music says

They both put work into their responses and conscientiously restrain themselves from gratuitous urges to be VINDICTIVE, PETTY, CONDESCENDING AND DISHONEST.

bullshit. They are the most uncivil posters on Patnet. My guess is that between them they have more uncivil flags than you and I TPB combined. And they routinely engage in all of the above uncivil behaviors. Just ask Dan why he loves to call people honey. Your comment is a lie. Your compliment is meaningless.

Dan8267 says

What I can say is that both have done great evils, but only one was motivated by religion and the other was motivated solely by political power. That's the difference. Stalin did not kill people because of atheist beliefs. Hitler did kill Jews because of his religious beliefs just like ISIS members kills people because of their religious beliefs. To deny this is a lie.

To deny this is to know history. You haven't read much about Hitler have you? Hitler is the man that said Christianity is a harmful superstition and Christianity is a religion only fit for slaves. I've got both Kershaw's and Bullock's biographies. Try either one, they both have extensive examples of Hitler's private writings. Any support Hitler gave to Christianity was political posturing to accomplish his goals.

Hitler persecuted Jews because they were a handy scapegoat for his followers feelings of frustration and inadequacy at their reduced economic situation as well as loss of national prestige. He played on the historical enmity of European Christians toward Jews to both reinforce and exacerbate pre existing prejudice with the goal of leading the people to unquestioning nationalism.

Does scapegoatig and playing on pre existing prejudice for people who feel they have lost ground economically sound like anyone we know currently in high office?

errc says

You misspelled delusional

I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt in keeping with the new more civil patnet.

bob2356 says

Hitler did kill Jews because of his religious beliefs just like ISIS members kills people because of their religious beliefs. To deny this is a lie.

To deny this is to know history. You haven't read much about Hitler have you? Hitler is the man that said Christianity is a harmful superstition and Christianity is a religion only fit for slaves. I've got both Kershaw's and Bullock's biographies. Try either one, they both have extensive examples of Hitler's private writings. Any support Hitler gave to Christianity was political posturing to accomplish his goals.

Hitler persecuted Jews because they were a handy scapegoat for his followers feelings of frustration and inadequacy at their reduced economic situation as well as loss of national prestige. He played on the historical enmity of European Christians toward Jews to both reinforce and exacerbate pre existing prejudice with the goal of leading the people to unquestioning nationalism.

Thanks for being a voice of reason Bob. Surely you are correct and history is all the evidence needed to show Hitlers true beliefs.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/non-jewish-victims-of-the-holocaust

"Priests and Pastors Died for Their Beliefs

Hitler wanted not only to conquer all of Europe, but Hitler also wanted to create a new religion and to replace Jesus Christ as a person to be worshipped. Hitler expected his followers to worship the Nazi ideology. Since Catholic priests and Christian pastors were often influential leaders in their community, they were sought out by the Nazis very early. Thousands of Catholic priests and Christian pastors were forced into concentration camps. A special barracks was set up at Dachau, the camp near Munich, Germany, for clergymen. A few survived; some were executed, but most were allowed to die slowly of starvation or disease. "

Any objective observer can see that Hitler's "christianity" was a facade he used to get votes.

Dan8267 says

jazz_music says

Especially when one party advertises that evil is going to be your salvation.

Evil infiltrated the Democratic Party. Evil is the Republican Party platform.

When exactly Dan in your bizarro world did the democrats get infiltrated by evil?

Must have happened before LBJ

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism

Johnson was a man of his time, and bore those flaws as surely as he sought to lead the country past them. For two decades in Congress he was a reliable member of the Southern bloc, helping to stonewall civil rights legislation. As Caro recalls, Johnson spent the late 1940s railing against the “hordes of barbaric yellow dwarves” in East Asia. Buying into the stereotype that blacks were afraid of snakes (who isn’t afraid of snakes?) he’d drive to gas stations with one in his trunk and try to trick black attendants into opening it. Once, Caro writes, the stunt nearly ended with him being beaten with a tire iron.
Nor was it the kind of immature, frat-boy racism that Johnson eventually jettisoned. Even as president, Johnson’s interpersonal relationships with blacks were marred by his prejudice. As longtime Jet correspondent Simeon Booker wrote in his memoirShocks the Conscience, early in his presidency, Johnson once lectured Booker after he authored a critical article for Jet Magazine, telling Booker he should “thank” Johnson for all he’d done for black people. In Flawed Giant, Johnson biographer Robert Dallek writes that Johnson explained his decision to nominate Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court rather than a less famous black judge by saying, “when I appoint a nigger to the bench, I want everybody to know he’s a nigger.”

According to Caro, Robert Parker, Johnson’s sometime chauffer, described in his memoir Capitol Hill in Black and White a moment when Johnson asked Parker whether he’d prefer to be referred to by his name rather than “boy,” “nigger” or “chief.” When Parker said he would, Johnson grew angry and said, “As long as you are black, and you’re gonna be black till the day you die, no one’s gonna call you by your goddamn name. So no matter what you are called, nigger, you just let it roll off your back like water, and you’ll make it. Just pretend you’re a goddamn piece of furniture.”

LBJ was a racist just like most if not all the southern Democrats.

bob2356 says

You haven't read much about Hitler have you? Hitler is the man that said Christianity is a harmful superstition and Christianity is a religion only fit for slaves.

For someone who complains about other people's knowledge of history, you sure don't seem knowledgeable yourself. I'll take historical evidence over the assertions of a random guy on the Internet any day.

Antisemitism in Germany spanned from the Middle Ages to the mid-20th century. To deny this is to just lie about history.

PeopleUnited says

LBJ was a racist just like most if not all the southern Democrats.

Yes, because the American South is racist. And that's why the Republican Party is the party of racism today. It's the same damn racist southerners. They just switched parties. We went over this. You are just trying to white wash history again. The labels changed, not the people.

The Democrats before the Southern Strategy are today's Republicans.

PeopleUnited says

When exactly Dan in your bizarro world did the democrats get infiltrated by evil?

So LBJ was a racist,

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism

These guys/gals voted for Iraq War

Chuck Schumer

Hillary Clinton

John Kerry

Joe Lieberman

Chris Dodd

Joe Biden

Diane Feinstien

Harry Reid

Dan8267 says

Voting for the act that made torture U.S. policy.

98 Senators voted Yes on this bill including what percentage of Democrats Dan?

a few years later 88 Senators voted to reauthorize it. You are whitewashing history by dismissing the fact that DEMOCRATS MADE TORTURE THE LAW OF THE LAND. it could not have been done without the cooperation of the democrats. In fact the first time around it was nearly unanimous, and only a few were brave enough to stand up to their overlords the second time around. The Democrats own the patriot act, as the minority party they didn't even put a defense against it. They overwhelmingly approved it in the Senate. Just more lies from the biggest propagandist on the site.

The democrat party was not infiltrated by evil as Dan claims. It was evil, and still is evil today. Anyone who would defend the party that made the Patriot Act and the Iraq war authorization possible is clearly ignorant of the role these evil people played in making America less safe and less free.