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Venezuela’s inflation rate is astounding


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2017 Nov 12, 9:13am   25,634 views  166 comments

by Goran_K   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  

#politics

This is why leftism in America is so dangerous. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You work, you eat. Basic fundemental truth that has rung true for over 2,000,000 years of homonsapien history.

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18   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 11:55am  

theoakman says
Goran_K says
HEY YOU says
Goran_K-another Socialist.
How many miles of socialist highway have been built on your tax dollar?
If you didn't build it,STAY OFF of it unless you love Redistribution Socialism.

I'm enjoying your hypocrisy. Hope you are enjoying your leftist "free lunch".


Big difference is ownership rights. It’s difficult to assign “road ownership” without restricting the free travel of person or commerce. So it makes sense to socialize public works projects like roads.

However no one has the right to my nieces services as an orthopedic surgeon. She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.


Does she actaully post her price?


That’s difficult to do since all procedures are slightly different. What’s the price difference between repairing a spiral fracture of the tibia vs repairing a compound fracture of the shoulder? Depends right? You would have to analyze the damage and difficulty of the repair and treatment.

I see your point though. I do want more transparency into pricing in the health care market where it’s easy to do so.
19   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 12:29pm  

Goran_K says
She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.


So how does every other 1st world country in the world do it?
20   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 12:32pm  

anon_3b28c says
Goran_K says
She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.


So how does every other 1st world country in the world do it?


Rationing.
21   GNL   2017 Nov 12, 1:03pm  

anon_3b28c says
The US could use a bit of inflation right now. It would take care of the national debt and help the majority of US citizens.

How, exactly, would inflation help those who have no debt? Since when was debt a moral thing?
22   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 1:46pm  

Goran_K says
Rationing.


They must ration pretty well then, as their results beat those in the US by most objective measures.
23   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 1:46pm  

WorkInProgress says

How, exactly, would inflation help those who have no debt? Since when was debt a moral thing?


The US has a lot of debt.
24   Shaman   2017 Nov 12, 1:58pm  

Goran_K says
Rationing


Everything scarce must be rationed, or succumb to the tragedy of the commons. In capitalistic societies, the production is maximized until the product/demand curve equalizes, with the customers with more money to spend getting to go first. This is fair, as it attempts to give those who have built up more value to society the first crack at the fruits of said society. It ultimately benefits the society as a whole. Where this model breaks down is with restrictive constraints put on the production, where guilds or government mandated monopolies (like patents) allow a producer to restrict production to maximize the cost of their product. This happens all too often in America. In reality, it’s aided and abetted by mass health insurance scheme which will end up paying the inflated prices because they must, and this drives up the cost of insurance. This makes more money available to insurance companies (especially with mandates that one MUST buy insurance a la Obamacare) which means they can pay even more, which means the price of drugs or services can also rise, and so on in a nasty infinite loop.

What’s the solution? Get rid of the mandate immediately. Let people buy whatever insurance they wish. Put controls on drug pricing, such that sheer profiteering is prohibited. Let drugs sold to other countries be allowed to cross the border back to keep prices here competitive instead of a hothouse captive market for the pharmaceutical companies to pluck at will.
Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.

Any scheme that doesn’t address pricing is doomed to fail in a runaway race to the edge of cost insanity.
25   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 3:34pm  

Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.


Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?

As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.
26   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 3:53pm  

Pcgyver, stick to debating ideas not people. Last warning.

If you have a personal opinion about someone, including me, just keep it to yourself. The rule applies to everyone and was put into effect by Patrick himself.

We tried the free for all way and that was not working. Give this new way a chance for a few days. You might find that you like it.
27   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 3:56pm  

PCGyver says
Goran_K says
anon_3b28c says
Goran_K says
She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.


So how does every other 1st world country in the world do it?


Rationing.


Does she not ration her service if the price is not right?


True. But that’s a market decision not a decision by the state. That’s a huge difference.
28   Strategist   2017 Nov 12, 4:03pm  

errc says
Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.


Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?

As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.


The cost of healthcare is absolutely crazy. Insurance companies should be allowed to contract with other countries for health care. It's actually much cheaper to fly out to India, Thailand, and Singapore for elective surgeries, than it is to have those surgeries in the US.
29   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 4:18pm  

errc says
Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.


Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?

As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.


How do you bring down the cost of services and goods?
30   curious2   2017 Nov 12, 4:33pm  

errc says
I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.


It's possible to combine both. The CEO of Whole Foods objected to providing employee medical insurance and said it makes more sense to provide healthy food; as a matter of public policy, he said subsidizing healthy food would do more for public health than subsidizing medical insurance. PR-driven controversy followed, and the USA continues to subsidize the most unhealthy foods while also subsidizing medical insurance. If we had actual socialism instead of the lemon socialism that we have now, it would be possible to provide healthy food like the British did during the Blitz and medical care via something like the British NHS. BTW, Britain is mostly capitalist, but Britons live on average longer than Americans while spending less than half as much on actually socialized medicine (NHS) as Americans spend on lemon socialized medicine. The Brits closed the "British restaurants" (cafeterias in tube stations) after the war, but the success provided proof of concept: it is possible actually to feed people healthy food, if you have a unifying dynamic (e.g. an external threat) and clear-eyed resolve (e.g. Churchill) setting policy that works for people.
31   Strategist   2017 Nov 12, 4:33pm  

justme says
Look! There exits a socialist country that has high inflation! Therefore all socialist countries are bad! In fact, any form of socialism is bad!


Countries that only use socialism, with little or no capitalism, are all failures. It's as simple as that. There are zero examples showing otherwise.
32   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 5:20pm  

justme, keep the personal attacks off the thread.
33   curious2   2017 Nov 12, 6:23pm  

Goran_K says
Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want.


I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.

Goran_K says

How do you bring down the cost of services and goods?


(1) let people buy drugs from anywhere in the world, without buying permission first. In America, customers are limited to buying the exact number of the exact drug that a paid prescriber wrote, and a pharmacist with 10 years of post-secondary education counts to ten or 30 and types up a label for the bottle. It's the most expensive and labor-intensive method in the world, maximizing cost/revenue, and errors.
(2) budget hospitals the same way as fire departments and police departments, not on a fee-for-service basis. Fund the VA sufficiently to accomplish its mission, and to provide emergency services and vaccines to anyone who shows up.
(3) if you are going to pay private sector providers, do that on the basis of diagnosis, not fee-for-service, and separate the functions of diagnosis and treatment. Otherwise, you end up with an expert service problem, where (for example) a dermatologist can diagnose skin cancer, do a Mohs surgery, discard the tissue sample, leave the patient scarred for life, and bill for the whole thing with no corroboration that the patient had skin cancer to begin with. The current "capitalist" (lemon socialist) system in the USA invites waste, fraud, and abuse, which add up to 30% of spending according to the Institute of Medicine. Personally, I think those categories add up to more than half.
34   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 6:27pm  

errrc the comment in question is in comment jail, do not repost comments in comment jail back into the thread. If it’s deemed NOT uncivil it will be put back into the thread but do not attempt to circumvent uncivil again. Thank you.
35   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 6:32pm  

curious2 says


I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.



Interesting points. I find it funny that to get the care we get here in the US and avoid the rationing line for NHS you still end up going to a private clinic.
36   Strategist   2017 Nov 12, 6:35pm  

curious2 says
Goran_K says
Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want.


I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.


Just my meniscus surgery cost me $3,000 total for my out of pocket costs. My Aetna insurance paid most of it. This is ridiculous.
I could have gone to India or Thailand on my own and saved some money. What good is insurance if my deductible is higher than going to an Asian country for treatment?
37   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 6:43pm  

Explain how the comment was uncivil then. Sounds like a reasonable request, try showing some good faith and answer a question
38   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 6:57pm  

Goran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.

Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?

What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?
39   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 7:04pm  

My determination for whether it’s a personal attack is when a comment begins to focus negative comments on the individual instead of the idea or point being argued.

If this is too strict, @Patrick can unban PCgyver and justme from politics and I’ll apply the rules differently.
40   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 7:07pm  

The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.
41   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 7:11pm  

Goran_K says
My determination for whether it’s a personal attack is when a comment begins to focus negative comments on the individual instead of the idea or point being argued.

If this is too strict, @Patrick can unban PCgyver and justme from politics and I’ll apply the rules differently.


Do you feel you are making an honest argument when comparing to different aspects of two different health care systems?
42   NDrLoR   2017 Nov 12, 7:12pm  

HEY YOU says
How many miles of socialist highway have been built
Capitalism built our highways. They're called infrastructure.
43   mell   2017 Nov 12, 7:15pm  

Strategist says
As much as I disagree with errc's filthy rant against Goran yesterday, (he should have been banned for a month) I have to support him on this complaint. I don't see a personal attack on this post by Justme.
Patrick, why put Justme's post in jail, and not ban Errc for a month? I see a whole new can of worms opening up here. I'm not trying to take sides here, just pointing out a problem that needs a quick solution. I'm sure everyone anticipated this problem.
Where do you draw the line? Maybe the Patnetters as a whole should decide where to draw the lines, and moderators can enforce that.
My 2 cents.


That's why you have different mods per topic. It's what many of those complaining now have asked and screamed for while the people they objected against mostly didn't care about moderation. I'm strongly against shuffling moderators at "request", if Patrick thinks it doesn't work he should go back to no moderation again. We already have the modern leftoids trying to dismantle the first and second amendment without going the proper constitutional way (for which they will likely never be a majority in the foreseeable future). Bad enough.
44   mell   2017 Nov 12, 7:19pm  

anon_ed8fe says
Goran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.

Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?

What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?


So you found one example where you think you're right? There are pros and cons for socialized healthcare such as better access breadth (most if not all covered) and in some cases cost control, but the truth is and has been - and if you're honest for one minute you'd agree - that if somebody has a complex / difficult to treat condition and/or urgency and they have the means, they will not think twice but seek treatment in the US where you can find the best MDs and treatments for almost anything. I'm not against criticizing the problems of the US healthcare system, but it is disingenuous to allude to any parity on quality of treatment (given you have the financial means) and bash a system that clearly has produced the best expert MDs for pretty much every condition.
45   MrMagic   2017 Nov 12, 7:23pm  

Goran_K says
The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny.


I agree, for some reason, those three keep trying to test the line and keep trying to step over it. It reminds me a lot of what my two year old grandson does, as he tests his mother on what he can get away with. It's the same pattern with those three.
46   Strategist   2017 Nov 12, 7:24pm  

Goran_K says
The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.


It was clearly unacceptable. Errc usually provides intelligent input, wether you agree with him or not. He just happened to lose it yesterday, and even he would agree it was NOT acceptable.
I just think we need, lets call it "Universal Patnet Rules"
47   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 7:27pm  

Strategist says
Goran_K says
The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.


It was clearly unacceptable. Errc usually provides intelligent input, wether you agree with him or not. He just happened to lose it yesterday, and even he would agree it was NOT acceptable.
I just think we need, lets call it "Universal Patnet Rules"


Agreed. I’d like clarification from the big boss about personal attacks. So far I’ve been operating under the zero tolerance policy. But if people get 3-4 free shots before deletions, then I’ll adapt. But we need a guideline that everyone sees across all forums.
48   MrMagic   2017 Nov 12, 7:27pm  

mell says
It's what many of those complaining now have asked and screamed for while the people they objected against mostly didn't care about moderation


They're going to complain, no matter what happens. It's what they consistently do.
49   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 7:28pm  

mell says
anon_ed8fe says
Goran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.

Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?

What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?


So you found one example where you think you're right? There are pros and cons for socialized healthcare such as better access breadth (most if not all covered) and in some cases cost control, but the truth is and has been - and if you're honest for one minute you'd agree - that if somebody has a complex / difficult to treat condition and/or urgency and they have the means, they wi...


So no answer?
50   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 7:28pm  

anon_ed8fe says
Goran_K says
My determination for whether it’s a personal attack is when a comment begins to focus negative comments on the individual instead of the idea or point being argued.

If this is too strict, @Patrick can unban PCgyver and justme from politics and I’ll apply the rules differently.


Do you feel you are making an honest argument when comparing to different aspects of two different health care systems?


I have yet to find any benefit to me personally with a socialized system over a market system. Unless you can explain how a socialized system benefits someone like me.
51   mell   2017 Nov 12, 7:32pm  

anon_ed8fe says
mell says
anon_ed8fe says
Goran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.

Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?

What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?


So you found one example where you think you're right? There are pros and cons for socialized healthcare such as better access breadth (most if not all covered) and in some cases cost control, but the truth is and has been - and if you're honest for one minute you'd agree - that if somebody has a comp...


The answer is that for simple visits the wait times roughly compare but for complex visits and surgery/difficult or advanced treatment the US beats Canada hands down. That doesn't mean that Canadians might not favor access for all for these limitations, but a lot do cross the border for advanced visits and surgery.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care
52   Strategist   2017 Nov 12, 7:56pm  

Goran_K says
Strategist says
Goran_K says
The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.


It was clearly unacceptable. Errc usually provides intelligent input, wether you agree with him or not. He just happened to lose it yesterday, and even he would agree it was NOT acceptable.
I just think we need, lets call it "Universal Patnet Rules"


Agreed. I’d like clarification from the big boss about personal attacks. So far I’ve been operating under the zero tolerance policy. But if people get 3-4 free shots before deletions, then I’ll adapt. But we need a guideline that everyone sees across all forums.


Yes, all moderators should go slow, take their fingers off the trigger, and let the site evolve. It's Patrick's site, let him decide on the pace of evolution.
Some will resent a moderator, and some will be OK.
53   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 7:58pm  

Canada’s wait times are the worst on record as of late last year.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/health-care-wait-times-hit-20-weeks-in-2016-report-1.3171718
54   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 8:29pm  

Permanent-ban all liberals and problems solved
55   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 8:37pm  

anon_fad35 says
Permanent-ban all liberals and problems solved


This

Then we can get back to real issues like the gays, my guns and abortion!
56   anonymous   2017 Nov 12, 8:55pm  

Capitalism = winning and losing; those that lose do without.

In health care, that can translate into dying in front of a hospital because you don't have money or insurance.

Whatever the right answer is for health care, pure capitalism isn't it.
57   Goran_K   2017 Nov 12, 9:57pm  

anon_62240 says
Capitalism = winning and losing; those that lose do without.

In health care, that can translate into dying in front of a hospital because you don't have money or insurance.

Whatever the right answer is for health care, pure capitalism isn't it.


That hasn’t been the case in the United States for nearly a century. How many people near death have gone to a hospital in the US and died from refusal of treatment say in the past 50 years?

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