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Goran_K saysanon_3b28c saysGoran_K saysShe offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.
So how does every other 1st world country in the world do it?
Rationing.
Does she not ration her service if the price is not right?
Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.
Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?
As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.
Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.
Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?
As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.
I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.
Look! There exits a socialist country that has high inflation! Therefore all socialist countries are bad! In fact, any form of socialism is bad!
Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want.
How do you bring down the cost of services and goods?
I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.
Goran_K saysCanada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want.
I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.
My determination for whether it’s a personal attack is when a comment begins to focus negative comments on the individual instead of the idea or point being argued.
If this is too strict, @Patrick can unban PCgyver and justme from politics and I’ll apply the rules differently.
How many miles of socialist highway have been builtCapitalism built our highways. They're called infrastructure.
As much as I disagree with errc's filthy rant against Goran yesterday, (he should have been banned for a month) I have to support him on this complaint. I don't see a personal attack on this post by Justme.
Patrick, why put Justme's post in jail, and not ban Errc for a month? I see a whole new can of worms opening up here. I'm not trying to take sides here, just pointing out a problem that needs a quick solution. I'm sure everyone anticipated this problem.
Where do you draw the line? Maybe the Patnetters as a whole should decide where to draw the lines, and moderators can enforce that.
My 2 cents.
Goran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.
Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?
What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?
The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny.
The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.
Goran_K saysThe way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.
It was clearly unacceptable. Errc usually provides intelligent input, wether you agree with him or not. He just happened to lose it yesterday, and even he would agree it was NOT acceptable.
I just think we need, lets call it "Universal Patnet Rules"
It's what many of those complaining now have asked and screamed for while the people they objected against mostly didn't care about moderation
anon_ed8fe saysGoran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.
Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?
What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?
So you found one example where you think you're right? There are pros and cons for socialized healthcare such as better access breadth (most if not all covered) and in some cases cost control, but the truth is and has been - and if you're honest for one minute you'd agree - that if somebody has a complex / difficult to treat condition and/or urgency and they have the means, they wi...
Goran_K saysMy determination for whether it’s a personal attack is when a comment begins to focus negative comments on the individual instead of the idea or point being argued.
If this is too strict, @Patrick can unban PCgyver and justme from politics and I’ll apply the rules differently.
Do you feel you are making an honest argument when comparing to different aspects of two different health care systems?
mell saysanon_ed8fe saysGoran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.
Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?
What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?
So you found one example where you think you're right? There are pros and cons for socialized healthcare such as better access breadth (most if not all covered) and in some cases cost control, but the truth is and has been - and if you're honest for one minute you'd agree - that if somebody has a comp...
The answer is that for simple visits the wait times roughly compare but for complex visits and surgery/difficult or advanced treatment the US beats Canada hands down. That doesn't mean that Canadians might not favor access for all for these limitations, but a lot do cross the border for advanced visits and surgery.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care
Strategist saysGoran_K saysThe way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.
It was clearly unacceptable. Errc usually provides intelligent input, wether you agree with him or not. He just happened to lose it yesterday, and even he would agree it was NOT acceptable.
I just think we need, lets call it "Universal Patnet Rules"
Agreed. I’d like clarification from the big boss about personal attacks. So far I’ve been operating under the zero tolerance policy. But if people get 3-4 free shots before deletions, then I’ll adapt. But we need a guideline that everyone sees across all forums.
Permanent-ban all liberals and problems solved
Capitalism = winning and losing; those that lose do without.
In health care, that can translate into dying in front of a hospital because you don't have money or insurance.
Whatever the right answer is for health care, pure capitalism isn't it.
Interesting points. I find it funny that to get the care we get here in the US and avoid the rationing line for NHS you still end up going to a private clinic.
That’s difficult to do since all procedures are slightly different. What’s the price difference between repairing a spiral fracture of the tibia vs repairing a compound fracture of the shoulder? Depends right? You would have to analyze the damage and difficulty of the repair and treatment.
I see your point though. I do want more transparency into pricing in the health care market where it’s easy to do so.
Goran_K saysThat’s difficult to do since all procedures are slightly different. What’s the price difference between repairing a spiral fracture of the tibia vs repairing a compound fracture of the shoulder? Depends right? You would have to analyze the damage and difficulty of the repair and treatment.
I see your point though. I do want more transparency into pricing in the health care market where it’s easy to do so.
Where do you think posting prices would be easy to do? Why do you believe that any other specialty would not have slightly different procedures also? No doctor knows what you will need until they look and see what is wrong.
I’ve never had any problems with health care access in America. My per family member maximums are $300 per individual. After that everything is literally free.
I can see pretty much any specialist in a single day except for surgeons (saw one 6 years ago for my back and that was a 3 days to appointment and then 4 days to surgery situation so still lightening fast).
Rationed healthcare simply doesn’t seem desirable to me. I don’t want to wait 20 weeks to see someone when I’m ill and suffering. That’s inhumane.
Goran_K saysI’ve never had any problems with health care access in America. My per family member maximums are $300 per individual. After that everything is literally free.
I can see pretty much any specialist in a single day except for surgeons (saw one 6 years ago for my back and that was a 3 days to appointment and then 4 days to surgery situation so still lightening fast).
Rationed healthcare simply doesn’t seem desirable to me. I don’t want to wait 20 weeks to see someone when I’m ill and suffering. That’s inhumane.
and your health care costs how much a year for how many people?
No one is waiting 20 weeks that is ill and suffering anywhere in the first world. You keep making this up.
I don’t want to be forced to subsidize others.
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This is why leftism in America is so dangerous. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You work, you eat. Basic fundemental truth that has rung true for over 2,000,000 years of homonsapien history.