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Islam and Violence


 invite response                
2007 Sep 11, 1:35am   605,895 views  2,815 comments

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Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

« First        Comments 1,123 - 1,162 of 2,815       Last »     Search these comments

1123   CBOEtrader   2018 Oct 14, 3:20pm  

I love khabib but competing in peace seems to be a problem if you talk shit about religion. http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/24957602/khabib-nurmagomedov-threatens-leave-ufc-teammate-zubaira-tukhugov-fired
1124   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 26, 9:38am  

European Court of Human Rights:
Austrian woman "defamed" Islam by talking about Muhammed's Marriage with Aisha. the ECHR upholds the court's ruling under Article 10, that Freedom of Speech can be curtailed so as not to "defame" a Religion, and stating Facts are no Defense:

https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-187188#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-187188%22]}
1125   Patrick   2018 Oct 26, 9:45am  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Austrian woman "defamed" Islam by talking about Muhammed's Marriage with Aisha.


The amazing thing here is that 56 year old Mohammed fucking 9 year old Aisha is an incontrovertible fact according to Muslims themselves.

It seems that one set of free speech rules applies to Muslims, and a more restrictive one to non-Muslims. This is not good.
1126   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 26, 10:04am  

The Court also compared arranged marriages among European Royalty, to actual consumation of a marriage (which was forbidden by the Church until after puberty)
1127   Strategist   2018 Oct 26, 10:22am  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
European Court of Human Rights:
Austrian woman "defamed" Islam by talking about Muhammed's Marriage with Aisha. the ECHR upholds the court's ruling under Article 10, that Freedom of Speech can be curtailed so as not to "defame" a Religion, and stating Facts are no Defense:


This can't be true. It's unbelievable. You cannot say anything negative about Islam, if a Muslim considers it to be negative?
We are loosing our freedoms to barbaric hordes even faster than I previously thought.
1128   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 26, 10:30am  

Strategist says
We are loosing our freedoms to barbaric hordes even faster than I previously thought.



Europe is Doomed. But Continentals have always let bureaucrats limit their speech so they feel "Safe".
1129   Strategist   2018 Oct 26, 11:52am  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Strategist says
We are loosing our freedoms to barbaric hordes even faster than I previously thought.



Europe is Doomed. But Continentals have always let bureaucrats limit their speech so they feel "Safe".


Are we still allowed to criticize European politicians, or do we get shot by the Nazis and Comrades?
Patrick, if we are not allowed to criticize European politicians, please delete this message and don't tell them it was me.
1130   Patrick   2018 Oct 26, 1:06pm  

Strategist says
Patrick, if we are not allowed to criticize European politicians


You totally are allowed here! Go for it.
1131   Patrick   2018 Oct 26, 1:12pm  

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
The Court also compared arranged marriages among European Royalty, to actual consumation of a marriage (which was forbidden by the Church until after puberty)


Note that Mohammed married Aisha when she was only 6 (six!).

But, being a decent sort, he did not consummate the marriage until she was 9. I believe that according to the official story, she was playing with her dolls when old Mo go the urge, and she was pulled away from her play to satisfy him.

https://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm
1132   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   2018 Oct 26, 1:28pm  

That’s very different from what I heard. I heard that Mohammed had a train of ten thousand men run on him. When each finished they made sure to jizz in mohammed’s beard until it was drenched whereupon Mohammed pulled the beard up to his face and wrung the jizz of a thousand men down his throat.

That’s the version I heard. Someone should make it into a movie.
1134   curious2   2018 Oct 26, 2:02pm  

"Europe’s highest human rights court ruled on Friday that disparagement of religious doctrines such as insulting the Prophet Muhammad isn’t protected by freedom of expression and can be prosecuted.

The European Court of Human Rights upheld a 2011 verdict by an Austrian court that sentenced an unnamed woman to pay a fine for alleging that the figurehead of Islam had pedophilia tendencies.

The woman was originally convicted under Austria’s law against disparaging religious doctrines for referring to the marriage between the Prophet and a six-ear-old Aisha as “pedophilia” at a 2009 seminar, sponsored by the right-wing populist Freedom Party, entitled “Basic Information About Islam.”

She appealed the verdict to the Strasbourg-based ECHR, a supranational court that hears human rights appeals from citizens of 47 European countries, arguing that she aimed to contribute to a public debate.

The ECHR said it rejected her appeal after finding that the Austrian courts “carefully balanced her right to freedom of expression with the right of others to have their religious feelings protected, and served the legitimate aim of preserving religious peace in Austria.”
***
According to Islamic teaching, Aisha was one of Muhammad’s wives. The ECHR quoted the woman whose sentence it upheld as having said that the Prophet “liked to do it with children.” The court further cited her as saying: “A 56-year-old and a six-year-old? ... What do we call it, if it is not pedophilia?”
***
A panel of seven Judges from Germany, France, Ireland, Latvia, Azerbaijan and Georgia ruled unanimously on the case. The judges said the convicted woman failed to inform her audience of the historical background.

In accusing Muhammad of “primary sexual interest in children’s bodies,” the woman disregarded that the marriage had continued until the Prophet’s death, when Aisha had turned 18—effectually ruling that a child marriage need not be motivated by paedophilia, the Austrian court found.

Her comments “could only be understood as having been aimed at demonstrating that Muhammad was not worthy of worship,” the ECHR said.

The woman will have to pay a fine of €480 ($612) and cover the costs of her trial.
***
Austria is among several European countries that have so called blasphemy laws in their penal code. The Austrian caricaturist Gerhard Haderer was sentenced to six months in prison by a Greek court in 2005 for depicting Jesus as smoking marijuana and surfing over the Sea of Galilee.
"
1135   Strategist   2018 Oct 26, 3:22pm  

Patrick says
Note that Mohammed married Aisha when she was only 6 (six!).

But, being a decent sort, he did not consummate the marriage until she was 9. I believe that according to the official story, she was playing with her dolls when old Mo go the urge, and she was pulled away from her playing to satisfy him.


Mo was such a gentleman.
I have never believed dirty old Mo waited until she was 9 to rape her. He was a fucking pedophile. Why would he wait three years when he could have had her in three minutes?
1137   curious2   2018 Oct 26, 3:36pm  

Strategist says

So now what? Can she appeal further?


She could try to appeal to the United Nations, which put KSA on the Commission on Human Rights. Otherwise, she must pay for her blasphemy, as per Islam. In fact, as a blasphemer, she might already be on an Islamic State kill list. Considering the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh, I can understand why she tries to remain anonymous. It is interesting the European court seemed to recognize the danger, preserving her anonymity, but chose to side with Islam. Pat Condell would call it the typical combination of authoritarianism and cowardice.

BTW, you would like him a lot, and his videos are free on his website and his YouTube channel.
1138   Patrick   2018 Oct 26, 5:01pm  

curious2 says
She could try to appeal to the United Nations, which put KSA on the Commission on Human Rights.


There's some old slave song about a "cat with a no-hole mouse". We are rapidly approaching no-hole mouse status. Cat is going to eat us, no (legal) means out of it.

Funny, asserting freedom of speech has now become a crime instead of a right.

IMHO, the right thing to do is mass "lawbreaking" a la Gandhi. If millions of people all asserted their right to free speech at the same time, they could not possibly fine or jail all of us.
1139   Patrick   2018 Oct 26, 5:07pm  

curious2 says
Her comments “could only be understood as having been aimed at demonstrating that Muhammad was not worthy of worship,” the ECHR said.


This is exceptionally interesting as well, since even the ECHR recognizes here that Muslims worship Mohammed.

Muslims themselves will insist that it is not true, and in direct violation of their principle that only God is worthy of worship. And yet as demonstrated by their actions every day, Muslims clearly do worship Mohammed.
1141   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Oct 30, 11:32pm  

German Local Police Force matches DNA of assaulted 30-year old woman and a raped sheep to 28-year old Eritrean Rapefugee

Also, looking for another suspect who attacked another woman

https://www.presseportal.de/blaulicht/pm/amp/110970/4102185
1142   Strategist   2018 Oct 31, 5:43am  

A Christian woman on death row for blasphemy in Islamic Pakistan has just been acquitted by the Supreme court. Protests are breaking out across Pakistan.
Dear Pakistani barbarians,
Please riot and kill each other. Allah wants you to. Destroy everything. Burn the bitch down. We love it.
This is gonna be fun.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46040515
A Pakistani court has overturned the death sentence of a Christian woman convicted of blasphemy, a case that has polarised the nation.
Asia Bibi was convicted in 2010 after being accused of insulting the Prophet Muhammad in a row with her neighbours.
She always maintained her innocence, but has spent most of the past eight years in solitary confinement.
The landmark ruling has already set off violent protests by hardliners who support strong blasphemy laws.
Demonstrations against the verdict are being held in Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar and Multan. Clashes with police have been reported.
The Red Zone in the capital Islamabad, where the Supreme Court is located, has been sealed off by police, and paramilitary forces have been deployed to keep protesters away from the court.
1143   Rin   2018 Oct 31, 12:31pm  

Strategist says
The Red Zone in the capital Islamabad


That's because Islam-a-BAD trumps Islam-a-GOOD.
1144   Y   2018 Oct 31, 1:00pm  

Did the sheep sign a consent form for the rape kit?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
German Local Police Force matches DNA of assaulted 30-year old woman and a raped sheep to 28-year old Eritrean Rapefugee

Also, looking for another suspect who attacked another woman

https://www.presseportal.de/blaulicht/pm/amp/110970/4102185
1145   HeadSet   2018 Oct 31, 1:11pm  

German Local Police Force matches DNA of assaulted 30-year old woman and a raped sheep to 28-year old Eritrean Rapefugee

So what the problem? The 30 year old woman was not Muslim, and he did not eat the sheep afterword. Thus, he was fully in compliance with Sharia Law. And if the women did happen to be Muslim, where are the 4 male witnesses?

Sounds like the Germans are Islamophobic here.
1147   Patrick   2018 Oct 31, 5:43pm  

I'd like to understand the psychology of these protests. I can see that people who want power have a motive to whip the crowd into a frenzy of hate, very much like the Democrats' frenzy of hate against Brett Kavanaugh. Simply by pointing a finger and screaming, one can claim he or she is a "leader" who deserves power for "defending" the country or party.

And once the ball of hate gets rolling, there is a powerful motive for more members of the crowd to join in, lest they themselves be accused next:

“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”

— Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials


So moderate Pakis will be denounced for being traitors to Islam, and moderate Democrats will be denounced for "not believing the woman". This pushes them to be more extreme.

Is there more to this general mechanism as well? I'm sure I don't understand it completely.
1148   curious2   2018 Oct 31, 5:53pm  

Patrick says
Is there more to this general mechanism as well?


Muslims hate non-Muslims for reasons Dan explained here on PatNet:

https://patrick.net/post/1216085/2012-09-03-why-the-religious-hate-atheists-and-an-epiphany-on-what-god-really-is

In addition, the power to execute blasphemers (including all atheists), and by extension to persecute Christians and others who don't submit to Islam, enables Muslims to feel superior. It might compensate for being otherwise inferior by every objective global measure, from happiness to literacy to achievement.

"President Lyndon B. Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

The blasphemy laws enable the lowest Muslim to feel that he's better than the best non-Muslim, especially when a Muslim chops off a blaspheming non-Muslim's head. After all, in the most primal sense, who is the superior: the man standing with the sword, or the decapitated corpse at his feet? By identifying as part of the ummah rather than as one of many individual persons with free will, Muslims can share the superiority of the executioner, and look down on the inferiority of the corpse.
1149   Reality   2018 Oct 31, 6:17pm  

Memic evolution is indeed subject to Darwinian laws/process; memes include both theistic religions, atheistic religion(s) (such as the Cult of Reason during French Revolution), and everything in between. Richard Dawkins proposed that religion is like a virus of the brain. IMHO, the successful ones (i.e. successful enough to become "traditional") are a little like Mitochondria: having its own DNA and serve a function in the host cell's survival and competition in the outside world. The most important function is actually putting a lid on female hypergamy and making young women reproduce instead of wasting their natural reproductivity on pointless ego-fulfillment (e.g. Instagram models). If atheist want to out-compete theists, the "brights" need to figure out either how to induce women to reproduce more, or come up with an entirely technological solution to mass human reproduction that doesn't involve women.
1150   curious2   2018 Oct 31, 7:09pm  

Reality says
come up with an entirely technological solution to mass human reproduction that doesn't involve women.


For reasons having little or nothing to do with religion, this technology is already in development in Japan and elsewhere.

Because many women want children but postpone pregnancy until too late, and because other women cannot carry a pregnancy for other reasons, there is considerable market demand to develop technological methods. Already it is possible to convert skin cells into egg or sperm cells, although more research is needed to ensure reliable success in the sense of healthy offspring. Artificial wombs are also in development. I predict a brave new world in 10-20 years.

This is one of the reasons I consider Islamic immigration a grave mistake, even for people who assume we need a growing population and can't produce one domestically. I think we will have the capability to produce a growing population (if we need one, which I doubt) without depending on young women getting pregnant. We don't have a realistic risk of depopulation culminating in extinction, but Islamic Hijrah has a consistent record of crushing civilizations for more than 1,000 years across multiple continents with different histories including multiple ethnicities.
1151   Strategist   2018 Oct 31, 7:53pm  

Patrick says
I'd like to understand the psychology of these protests. I can see that people who want power have a motive to whip the crowd into a frenzy of hate


All we have to do is understand the insanity of Islam. These people are insane zombies possessed by an insane devil. When the Charlie Hebdo cartoons came out, the mad rioters in Afghanistan started killing each other. How insane is that?
1152   curious2   2018 Nov 1, 1:51am  

"A Christian woman acquitted in Pakistan after eight years on death row for blasphemy plans to leave the country, her family said Thursday as radical Islamists mounted rallies for a second day against the verdict, blocking roads and burning tires in protest.
***
Bibi remained at an undisclosed location Thursday where the 54-year-old mother of five was being held for security reasons, awaiting her formal release, her brother, James Masih told The Associated Press.
***
Meanwhile, more than 1,000 Islamists blocked a key road linking the capital, Islamabad with the garrison city of Rawalpindi on Thursday, demanding Bibi be publicly hanged.
***
Protesters, rallied by firebrand cleric Khadim Hussain Rizvi, also set up roadblocks and burned tires in the southern port city of Karachi while hundreds of Islamists clashed Thursday with police in various parts of eastern Punjab province.

Many parents kept their children from school, fearing more violence.

The Islamists also called for the killing of the three judges, including Chief Justice Mian Saqib Nisar, who acquitted Bibi.

The three are on the hit list of Rizvi's Tehreek-e-Labbaik party, which has demanded a public execution for Bibi. Rizvi has managed to turn out tens of thousands of supporters in the past, often forcing authorities to bow to his demands on religious matters.
***
Bibi's lawyer, Saiful Malook, has gone into hiding as the extremists had threatened his life as well.

On Wednesday, cleric Afzal Qadri, with Rizvi by his side, urged a crowd of supporters outside the Punjab provincial parliament in the city of Lahore to revolt against army chief Gen. Qamar Javed Bajwa and overthrow Khan's government.
***
[T]he mere rumor of blasphemy can spark lynchings. Religious minorities, who have been repeatedly targeted by extremists, fear the law because it is often used to settle scores and to pressure minorities.

In 2011, Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab, was shot and killed by one of his guards for defending Bibi and criticizing the misuse of the blasphemy law. The assassin, Mumtaz Qadri, was hanged for the crime, but later was hailed by religious hard-liners as a martyr, with millions visiting a shrine set up for him near Islamabad.

Shahbaz Bhatti, Pakistan's minister for minorities was also killed in 2011 after he demanded justice for Bibi.

Bibi was arrested in 2009 after she was accused of blasphemy following a quarrel with two fellow female farm workers who refused to drink from a water container used by a Christian. A few days later, a mob accused her of insulting Islam's prophet, leading to her 2010 conviction.

Bibi's family has always maintained her innocence and says she never insulted the prophet.
"
1153   curious2   2018 Nov 1, 2:22am  

"Pakistani woman who spent eight years in solitary confinement faces death threats from fundamentalists
***
The lives of the three judges, who apparently made the decision to overturn her conviction three weeks ago but held back from announcing it for fear of the consequences, are also at risk from fundamentalists intent on revenge.

Within hours of the supreme court judgment, Afzal Qadri of Tehreek-e-Labbaik (TLP), a political party dedicated to punishing blasphemy, said the judges faced death.

There is precedent. In January 2011, Salmaan Taseer, the governor of Punjab who had lobbied for a presidential pardon for Bibi and urged reform of the blasphemy laws, was shot in the back by one of his bodyguards, Mumtaz Qadri.
***
A few weeks later, more than 70 Christians were killed in a suicide bombing at a church in Lahore on Easter Sunday.

A month after Taseer was killed, Pakistan’s religious minorities minister, Shahbaz Bhatti, a Christian who spoke out against the blasphemy law, was shot dead in Islamabad.

On Wednesday, TLP supporters took to the streets to protest against the supreme court decision in cities including Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad, with major roads blocked.
***
According to Open Doors, which monitors Christian persecution around the world, Pakistan’s blasphemy laws “target Christians in particular”.

It says: “The abuses of Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are some of the starkest examples of persecution in Pakistan. They have been devastating for minorities, including Christians, who must always act with caution in case an allegation of blasphemy is raised to settle a personal score. This year, a blasphemy case was brought against a boy for simply responding to a cartoon about Islam on social media.
1154   Strategist   2018 Nov 1, 5:17am  

curious2 says
[T]he mere rumor of blasphemy can spark lynchings. Religious minorities, who have been repeatedly targeted by extremists, fear the law because it is often used to settle scores and to pressure minorities.


This is Islam folks. Awesome, isn't it?
1155   Y   2018 Nov 1, 6:09am  

Winning elections are more important open the borders and let them all in...
1156   Strategist   2018 Nov 1, 9:17am  

Islamic organizations are attempting to prevent this woman and her family from leaving the country, so that mobs can slaughter this family. They are determined to carry out Islamic law that requires death for blasphemy, even though there is no evidence she said anything negative about Mohammad the child rapist.
This woman and her family must be given asylum by a democracy.
1157   Bd6r   2018 Nov 1, 11:15am  

curious2 says
A few weeks later, more than 70 Christians were killed in a suicide bombing at a church in Lahore on Easter Sunday.

According to some, this must be Fake News because Religion of Peace would never do that. Must be Trump and White Fucking Males.
1158   Strategist   2018 Nov 1, 5:23pm  

The sun rises in Pakistan, the land where terrorists walk free. It's day 2 of the Christian woman being acquitted of blasphemy charges.
The violent followers of the world's most violent religion have organized a nationwide strike. The religious leaders claimed their meeting with the government and security officials have failed. Allah wants the blood of that blasphemous infidel woman, and Allah must get what he wants.
Lets hope the peaceful Muslims get what they want.....death, war and destruction.
Allah Ho Akbar!
1161   Strategist   2018 Nov 2, 12:58pm  

Bad news folks. The Pakistani government has given in to Islamofucks. Asia Bibi will not be allowed to leave Pakistan, and there will be some kinda review regarding the Supreme Court's decision to free her.
My congratulations to the Islamofucks.

Islamofucks - 1
Humanity - 0
1162   curious2   2018 Nov 2, 1:10pm  

"Egypt’s Coptic Orthodox Church says gunmen have opened fire on a bus carrying Christian pilgrims traveling to a remote desert monastery, killing at least seven.

Church spokesman Bouls Halim said the death toll in Friday’s attack south of the capital Cairo was likely to rise.

Security officials said at least another 12 people were wounded in the attack, which bore the hallmarks of Islamic militants. Those officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief the media.

Friday’s attack is the second to target pilgrims heading to the Saint Samuel the Confessor monastery in Minya province in as many years. An attack in May 2017 left at least 28 people dead.

Egypt’s Christians account for some 10 percent of the country’s 100 million people.
"

This event illustrates why most countries that have allowed themselves to become more than 20% Muslim are already more than 90% Muslim. Muslims kill or subjugate the non-Muslims, as per Islam. Non-Muslims must either flee, submit to Sharia including dhimmi subjugation, or die. This is what inviting Islamic immigration, aka Hijrah, means.

This event illustrates also why the crusades started. Apologists for Islam like to say that both sides did bad things during the crusades. That overlooks why the crusades began: Muslims were killing, robbing, and kidnapping and enslaving Christian pilgrims. Eventually, Christians got fed up with the Islamic abuse, and decided to organize and fight back. You can say that two wrongs don't make a right, but that misses the point with Islam. Islam has been at war against humanity almost continuously for more than 1,000 years. Muslims have slaughtered Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, anyone and everyone to impose Islam wherever they can. It doesn't stop until met with superior force, and even then it waits for an opportunity to strike again. The Barbary Wars subdued Islam for a time, until Nixon's disastrous deals with KSA revived it. The only way to deal with Islam is to end it permanently: refute and denounce it everywhere all the time, and prepare for war when (not if) Pakistanis insist on trying to kill blasphemers. It will require resolve and the credible threat of force, and sometimes actual force.

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