patrick.net

WookieMan says

RafiMaas says

Well, to sue, requirement 1 would need to be true and not some made up bullshit. Goes to show you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Rafi, unfortunately this one is true. It's been mentioned almost every morning on the news (god damn wife likes the tv in the bedroom) here in Chicagoland. Minorities will 100% get preferential treatment, lower fees and no interest loans. WGN and the local NBC affiliate are all reporting this live on air.

I don't like the doling out of college acceptances or stuff like this based on race at all, but I'm more pissed about the money portion. JB wants to pump the income tax, and then wants to discriminate on collecting fees from what are likely wealthy minorities anyway. They can pay the full boat and still survive. So now more money needs to be found for our pension crisis (not that these licenses would come anywhere close to...

I don't see anything wrong with it. Minorities were disproportionately harmed by Cannabis Prohibition and the War on Drugs, so an attempt to right that wrong doesn't trigger me at all. I find it odd that Americans who shirked their civic duty and never once spoke out, or voted out the politicians who are still waging their Right Wing Conservative Jihad, are all of a sudden now getting all triggered about racial disparity and an attempt to right the glaringly obvious wrong.

CBOEtrader says

BigFrank says

Between the onerous fees and the less than desirable climate,

The hemp farmers are growing outdoors in IL. Curious to see how they do. I'll bet they can only get 1 good crop/year though I've heard them suggest they can do 3. I know a guy doing 150 acres of hemp. Says he is $3 million into it, and expects to make $8 million in revenue if things go well... Your feedback may be accurate for hemp farming in IL (or any state). Hemp (CBD oil) is a national free-ish market.

Cannabis industry in IL is highly protected by state. There won't be any outdoor cannabis grows in IL. There is no opportunity to get in years later. This is a competition to be chosen as 1 of the 135 total growers licenses to be awarded in IL. There wont be any more. The entirety of the $2 billion/yr Chicago market will be divided between the owners of those licenses.

Waiting it out is not an option. Ei...

Cannabis isn't that hard to grow, however i always get a good laugh when people who have never grown, processed and sold cannabis, speak about how simple it is. It's easy to grow poor quality cannabis, however, ask all the other people growing commercial grade cannabis how easy it is to fetch the top dollar prices for a subpar product. Growing the cannabis flowers is the easy part, curing, hand trimming and packaging it properly so that it maintains quality for a decent shelf life is a different story. There's plenty of good reasons that most growers don't use autoflower chemovars. They are nothing new

CBOEtrader says

They care about SOCIAL EQUITY

Their view of equity is kind of arbitrary. It's not based on merit, it's just based on "not being white straight male". First they tell everyone to not discriminate based on race/gender/sexualPerversions.... and next they go and discriminate on every single one in the arbitrary categories they created in first place.

As another poster posts here... this is Clown World.

BigFrank says

I don't see anything wrong with it. Minorities were disproportionately harmed by Cannabis Prohibition and the War on Drugs

And so minorities who are disproportionately harmed by laws against murder should....?

BigFrank says

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Nothing wrong with directing public funds towards individuals based on skin color. No problem at all.BigFrank says

There's plenty of good reasons that most growers don't use autoflower chemovars. They are nothing new

Bullshit.

Autoflowers have only matched THC potency in the last 2 to 3 years.

Growers use photoperiod strains for the cloning process control and (until about 2 years ago) for the higher THC and more variety.

There is a reason why banana farms have gone from 250 trees per acre, to 1750 dwarf banana plants per acre. Now that THC levels are equivalent, and feminized seed production is a snap, autoflowers are the best way to mass produce THC. Half the time to harvest, far better for a perpetual harvest indoor farm.

And if I'm wrong, it's cool. A/B testing is simple as can be, and adjusting strategies via empirical evidence is exactly how and why my team will win.

Also, have you asked yourself how much free consulting you can buy when you purchase $400k of LEDs or $300k on an industrial grade extractor? I have top pros in my phone, ready to fly to Chicago to help w any issue ... All complimentary of our very large purchases.

Selling flower is a rookie move. We will not be selling flower under our brand. Let the tards who use logic like "there's a reason why growers..." as if this industry hasn't completed changed every 3 years. Selling flower is a race to the bottom.

The big money is in branding extractions and edibles.

willywonka says

And so minorities who are disproportionately harmed by laws against murder should....?

Hunting Fucking White Males should be completely legal

Sneak peek

CBOEtrader says

BigFrank says

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Nothing wrong with directing public funds towards individuals based on skin color. No problem at all.BigFrank says

There's plenty of good reasons that most growers don't use autoflower chemovars. They are nothing new

Bullshit.

Autoflowers have only matched THC potency in the last 2 to 3 years.

Growers use photoperiod strains for the cloning process control and (until about 2 years ago) for the higher THC and more variety.

There is a reason why banana farms have gone from 250 trees per acre, to 1750 dwarf banana plants per acre. Now that THC levels are equivalent, and feminized seed production is a snap, autoflowers are the best way to mass produce THC. Half the time to harvest, far better for a perpetual harvest indoor farm.

And...

You didn't seem to have any issue with directing public funds towards individuals based on skin color when it was to harm those people via the War on Drugs

BigFrank says

You didn't seem to have any issue with directing public funds

I'm cool and all, but I don't have the authority to direct public funds bro.

CBOEtrader says

BigFrank says

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Nothing wrong with directing public funds towards individuals based on skin color. No problem at all.BigFrank says

There's plenty of good reasons that most growers don't use autoflower chemovars. They are nothing new

Bullshit.

Autoflowers have only matched THC potency in the last 2 to 3 years.

Growers use photoperiod strains for the cloning process control and (until about 2 years ago) for the higher THC and more variety.

There is a reason why banana farms have gone from 250 trees per acre, to 1750 dwarf banana plants per acre. Now that THC levels are equivalent, and feminized seed production is a snap, autoflowers are the best way to mass produce THC. Half the time to harvest, far better for a perpetual harvest indoor farm.

And...

You will learn quickly that THC content isn't nearly as important as you seem to be believing that it is. The biggest differentiation comes from the terpene content, and while everyone knows what THC (and now CBD) is, there's another 100+ cannabinoids that will largely factor into differentiation in branded products moving forward. I've been hearing these plans and investment pitches for years, everyone jumps in and thinks they know it all, on paper. IN practice, it's just not that simple to bring a product to market that will command the type of price points that everyone sees and gets all wide eyed over. I wish you luck, and hope you win a cultivation license in round 1! We barely missed out the first round in my state, and wound up missing out on round two as well, so had to abandon the Indoor Cultivation angle for the time being. Have since moved on to Cannabis growing, processing and retail with <.3% THC so that we can call it Hemp and get on to making money. Not as much competition (yet), and it's allowed my company to remain lean while building out our brand, since we aren't fighting the crowd of indoor marijuana cultivation. My plan is to buy up one of the many failed entities that don't survive the next year or two

CBOEtrader says

BigFrank says

You didn't seem to have any issue with directing public funds

I'm cool and all, but I don't have the authority to direct public funds bro.

You have every right, as an American, to whinge about how and where they are spent. I'm just pointing out the obvious, it's a sort of comeuppance to watch people whinge about how unfair it is that minorities are given special privilege during this legalization push, while they were never bothered that massive amounts of funds were targeted at harming minorities for decades with the Republicans War on Drugs.

In one scenario, our tax dollars were wasted by sending cops to shoot, rob and kill minorities under the guise of doing good waging the war on drugs. So the minorities lived it for decades. In terror, in misery, in prison. People like me paid for it, and have worked to end these UnAmerican practices.

In the other scenario, our Freedoms and Liberties are still impinged by these Oligopolies and Limited License schemes, where a privileged few will have the States blessing to reap the benefits, and a little reparations for those who have suffered from the inequities is the only thing that bothers you.

To each his own, good luck on getting the licenses! We already are growing and selling Cannabis in Illinois, and it's top notch, dialed in, high test, so you better bring your A game!

BigFrank says

My plan is to buy up one of the many failed entities that don't survive the next year or two

There is already plenty of second hand equipment, and land is cheap.

BigFrank says

everyone jumps in and thinks they know it all, on paper.

That's their problem. This industry is totally different every 3 years. Use empirical data science methods to analyze and make better decisions.

BigFrank says

The biggest differentiation comes from the terpene content, and while everyone knows what THC (and now CBD) is, there's another 100+ cannabinoids that will largely factor into differentiation in branded products moving forward.

THC purity and quality, along w terpenes, and ability to separate/combine the other cannabinoids will indeed be important. That's why I'm buying $300k of: trimmer, decarboxylation oven, winterizer, and Apeks extractor. That's also why im buying the best lights and nutrients we can find.

Sales/marketing is probably the biggest unknown, in that regulations haven't been created yet. How and to whom are we allowed to market? We shall see... Lucky for us, I know how to set up sales processes w the best of them. I'll know every purchasing manager for every dispensary in IL within a few weeks.

BigFrank says

I'm just pointing out the obvious, it's a sort of comeuppance to watch people whinge about how unfair it is that minorities are given special privilege during this legalization push, while they were never bothered that massive amounts of funds were targeted at harming minorities for decades with the Republicans War on Drugs.

I've always been against the war on drugs , dude I'm opening up a cannabis farm in IL. You can't fix improprieties of the past by classifying and dividing people TODAY based on perceived racial priviledge. It is an excercise of absurdity.

BigFrank says

We already are growing and selling Cannabis in Illinois, and it's top notch, dialed in, high test, so you better bring your A game!

You own one of the 35 medical licenses? Or are you talking about CBD?

I began this journey to start a hemp farm. Then IL dropped the retail legalization news. Given my available food grade wharehouse plus immediate human resources in our management group make the cannabis license too perfect for us.

CBOEtrader says

It is an excercise of absurdity.

I'm saying this as someone whose family was directly oppressed. My great grandparents were sent to Catholic school by force. They weren't allowed food or water or playtime unless they spoke English and engaged in Catholicism. I had "great uncles" (everyone is your great uncle on the reservation) who were injured at wounded knee in 1973.

You can't fix any of this shit by pointing at someone and declaring them priviledged/oppressed based on looks. It's totally absurd

Not surprised about the huge fees and taxes. The liberals out here in crazy California were salivating over the same thing and how they could direct that newfound revenue stream towards their "worthy" causes. Seemed that few people actually cared about the weed; it was all about the revenue.

CBOEtrader says

BigFrank says

We already are growing and selling Cannabis in Illinois, and it's top notch, dialed in, high test, so you better bring your A game!

You own one of the 35 medical licenses? Or are you talking about CBD?

I began this journey to start a hemp farm. Then IL dropped the retail legalization news. Given my available food grade wharehouse plus immediate human resources in our management group make the cannabis license too perfect for us.

I own a piece of a few med licenses via Green Thumb, Cresco, and Harvest Health. And Acreage via dispensary license. The CBD business is the one making all the money lately, but i won't complain. Every year it's the same, sell the Spring rips, buy the summer dips, trade around a core position. The advantage to CBD at the moment is no real regulatory restrictions, which means it's not nearly the capital intensive venture that vertically integrated MMJ has been. Which allows us to build presence with the brand, because most are still confused to the fact that Cannabis was legalized in late 2018, federally. There's just a THC cap of 0.3%, which is absurd, but that's what the government does best, is absurdity. In the meantime, we get to build up our business while others are sinking tons of money into just getting started. We're growing high CBD "hemp" flower already, and that's actually fetching a higher price point than 'marijuana'! Which will surely change with more competition, but in the meantime, I just root for the FDA to keep dragging their feet. Keeps the big corp's from competing for the most part.

BigFrank says

are all of a sudden now getting all triggered about racial disparity and an attempt to right the glaringly obvious wrong.

Race is a bullshit and you know it. It's all cultural, but hey, skin color.

And what wrong are you talking about? If we're gonna go back 40 years or later let it go Elsa. We're basically six months away from 2020. 40 years ago was 1980. Are we seriously going to sit here and say specific races were specifically targeted by a majority and suppressed them somehow?

I'm living in the twilight zone if that's the case, cause it didn't happen. Government, politicians and the most racists of them all, the whites, have done nothing but bend over backward to try and equalize things to the point the scales have tipped in the opposite direction. Not sure why we can't just award production, intelligence, etc without filling a quota.

Hey CBOETrader,

From hearing what you are describing as the IL medallion scheme, my primary misgiving is the fact that it is a Medallion Scheme: have an exit plan and execute before the medallions become like city cab medallions after Uber and Lyft. If I were in IL and were interested in participating in this program, I'd be tempted to search the ancestry in my family and find some hispanic roots therefore take those 0% loans as a minority-owned corporation (self-identify as a woman and get a new driver's license issued if necessary) while having as little of my own capital as down payment in the game as possible. I'm glad I'm not in IL, nor do I know much about growing MJ, so I'm not tempted. Best of luck with your new enterprise regardless how you decide.

ps.
Abusing / taking advantage of irrational laws are morally justified because rendering it absurd to enforce is an efficient way of having those laws repealed or not made again next time to begin with.

BigFrank says

We're growing high CBD "hemp" flower already, and that's actually fetching a higher price point than 'marijuana'!

Interesting. I like CBD because it’s a great wind-down at the end of a day, and it’s also good for during the day when I have muscle aches or joint pain. I can take some and then go go go the rest of the day with little pain and very little impairment.

Quigley says

I like CBD because it’s a great wind-down at the end of a day

Tried, does not seem to work on me.

Quigley says

We're growing high CBD "hemp" flower already, and that's actually fetching a higher price point than 'marijuana'! Which will surely change with more competition, but in the meantime, I just

Yeah I was thinking of trying it in Texas for my Morton's Neuroma (nerve damage pain in feet). Too damn expensive to buy a gram of CBD as a test, $80-100 assuming the brand isn't lying to you.

Are you selling the extract at higher prices or the flower? Either way, this is a function of CA/OR/WA or whatever oversupplied state you live in.

If you are in one of those states, an outdoor grow for hemp will certainly be the right approach.

BigFrank says

There's just a THC cap of 0.3%

Yeah, I would go ahead and call this Hemp, given the Texas bill and others like it legally differentiate. I told texas state reps that I am a farmer wanting to grow hemp so they send me email notices of their meetings. I've asked detailed questions about Texas's plans for hemp vs cannabis.

They suggest that under .3% is legally hemp. Between .3-1% is forced destruction of the crop IF grown and processes without a cannabis license. Over 1% they call police and let you explain why you aren't just a terrible drug dealer.

These states do not take hemp vs cannabis definitions lightly. Call it hemp and save yourself some trouble.

Awesome to hear your business is going well. What products are hot? Vapes and edibles? CBD flower is not sold in Texas so I havent seen or tried that stuff yet.

Reality says

my primary misgiving is the fact that it is a Medallion Scheme

100% spot on. Yeah, it's a short term protected market . Make hay while the sun is high and either propel yourself into a national CBD brand like BigF above so that you can compete when interstate laws loosen OR be prepared to take your profits and close shop once interstate sales become the norm.

Lots of supplemental businesses to make money in Cannabis/Hemp if you have a trusted brand to build on.

In hemp it seems to be the seed/clone providers, as well as the processing facilities are killing it. Processing facilities want to keep 40% of your product. I'd bet many farmers have zero plan for drying/curing.

A HUGE opportunity in hemp is to patent your seed strain. Pretty sure can't do that in cannabis. In hemp if you develop a heat resistant autoflower that also produces .1% THC and 12% CBD, you could OWN that strain and seeds for $1/per .

https://www.cannalawblog.com/oregon-hemp-litigation-multi-million-dollar-crop-delivery-lawsuit-filed/

"The information to be
collected shall be designed to identify the following:
(1) the number and percentage of licenses provided to
Social Equity Applicants and to businesses owned by
minorities, women, veterans, and people with disabilities;
(2) the total number and percentage of employees in the
cannabis industry who meet the criteria in (3)(i) or
(3)(ii) in the definition of Social Equity Applicant or who
are minorities, women, veterans, or people with
disabilities;
(3) the total number and percentage of contractors and
subcontractors in the cannabis industry that meet the
definition of a Social Equity Applicant or who are owned by
minorities, women, veterans, or people with disabilities,
if known to the cannabis business establishment; and
(4) recommendations on reducing or eliminating any
identified barriers to entry, including access to capital,"

RafiMaas says

Where does it say non-white? Or anything about race?

they mention race/gender/etc alongside social equity all over the bill. They also define the social equity stuff as impacted "area" and "family": codewords for race. They also mention one of the purposes of the social equity program is to research hiring for [everyone but white cis'ies].

I suppose you could be correct and MAYBE they help out an unfortunate white guy. No Chicago lawyer or business man thinks that will happen though, at least none I've spoken to.

RafiMaas says

Disproportionately
22 Impacted Area;

Come on man, I know this state and I'm pretty CBOE does too. What is an impacted area? Why is televised, local news affiliates reporting on it? It's undeniably race based.

Or these links:

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/26/736117895/illinois-governor-signs-law-legalizing-recreational-use-of-marijuana (fourth graph)

https://nypost.com/2019/06/25/illinois-becomes-11th-state-to-allow-recreational-marijuana/ (second graph)

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/marijuana-illinois-legalization-bill-852088/ (third graph)

Then this:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/minority

http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/illinois-population/

By default of the definitions and IL demographics, it's 100% race/minority based. You think the politicians and lawyers are dip shitted enough to put "we're going to give the black and brown people free loans and discounted license fees." Hell nah. Although it wouldn't surprise me in IL.

WookieMan says

You think the politicians and lawyers are dip shitted enough to put "we're going to give the black and brown people free loans and discounted license fees." Hell nah. Although it wouldn't surprise me in IL.

My main point is still why give this shit away for free. Hell Blago wanted to sell Obama's senate seat. Why the fuck are we giving away IL weed licenses at a discount and with no interest? Not a chance in hell this goes through if whites are 14% of the population in IL.

Who is going to enforce Weed Licenses in Illinois. I mean I think it is still against federal law to distribute. So if a cop were to try and enforce Illinois law, couldn't the person he is arresting just turn around and make a citizens arrest against the cop for conspiracy to distribute? I mean if a dispensary is robbed the cops will certainly protect it so in effect they are acting as enforcers for a drug cartel. It's nothing I'd want to try because cops would generally resist and probably kill you out of hand. Am I wrong or is this just another case in this country of it isn't what you do it's who you are.

WookieMan says

Why the fuck are we giving away IL weed licenses at a discount and with no interest?

politicians like Blago want to choose winners, and have a tendency to become insanely rich in the process.

How ya gonna shakedown a free market?

CBOEtrader says

politicians like Blago want to choose winners, and have a tendency to become insanely rich in the process.

I think he is actually still quite wealthy regardless of his jail time. Don't want to dox myself too much, but worked in Ravenswood Manor by his place for a number of years, as recently as 3 years ago. She's kept the house. She's done well while daddy/hubby was away with regard to real estate prices there. Though she refi'd in 2017 for roughly $550k. House is worth $1.1M all day and might be higher. They'll be fine... not that anyone cared.

It's not SJW, just want to point it out.

The people running the program have friends, those friends want an easier way in and to exclude everyone else, hence such a strange set of requirements. And you can bet the guy who will be choosing to whom to give out licenses will make sure friends and family come first. This is just like LA firefighters union.

Ironic that people think government employees are servants, when nothing is further from the truth.

FortWayneIndiana says

And you can bet the guy who will be choosing to whom to give out licenses will make sure friends and family come first. This is just like LA firefighters union.

Yeah it's unfortunate. The SJW thing (or any other moral smokescreen) is always a cover for corruption . Chicago is amongst the worst offenders

CBOEtrader says

Quigley says

We're growing high CBD "hemp" flower already, and that's actually fetching a higher price point than 'marijuana'! Which will surely change with more competition, but in the meantime, I just

Yeah I was thinking of trying it in Texas for my Morton's Neuroma (nerve damage pain in feet). Too damn expensive to buy a gram of CBD as a test, $80-100 assuming the brand isn't lying to you.

Are you selling the extract at higher prices or the flower? Either way, this is a function of CA/OR/WA or whatever oversupplied state you live in.

If you are in one of those states, an outdoor grow for hemp will certainly be the right approach.

BigFrank says

There's just a THC cap of 0.3%

Yeah, I would go ahead and call this Hemp, given the Texas bill and others like it legally differentiate. I...

3.5 grams of flower with ~ 17% CBD retails for $38 so that's about 600mg of CBD in the flower. There's a wide range of pricing for different brands of extracts, as cheap as $35 for an isolate "tincture" and $30 for a 600mg 'full spectrum' tincture, up to $50-60 for 600mg "tincture" drops. My brand is geared towards mid aged people (i had originally expected to get majority of females, however, we see people from all walks of life taking CBD). Most people don't have nearly a CBD rich flower as we do, often times the "hemp" flower people are selling has ~6-8% CBD content. When this started, we would say that retail price should be around 0.10 per mg, but we're already trending towards 0.05 per mg. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come closer to a penny some point in 2020, that will depend on how successful everyone is with their 2019 crops. I remember reading about Colorado in the early years of Hemp farming, more than 90% of crops coming in Hot (>.3% thc)

https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/texas-legalizes-hemp-11685229

BigFrank says

I remember reading about Colorado in the early years of Hemp farming, more than 90% of crops coming in Hot (>.3% thc)

What happens when it comes in HOT? I only know Texas laws. If the farmer has a cannabis license is it still ok? Assuming otherwise it would be destroyed ... Could you imagine watching 4 months of work go up in smoke?

CBOEtrader says

FortWayneIndiana says

And you can bet the guy who will be choosing to whom to give out licenses will make sure friends and family come first. This is just like LA firefighters union.

Yeah it's unfortunate. The SJW thing (or any other moral smokescreen) is always a cover for corruption . Chicago is amongst the worst offenders

That's a good way to put it moral smokescreen. Gonna use that one. Thanks CBOEtrader.

Could you imagine watching 4 months of work go up in smoke?

Is not that the general idea anyway?