patrick.net

The retail investors just got a taste of how rigged the system is by having brokerage firms put "closing" only transactions in place, and forcing liquidations by having no margin allowed for some positions.

The metals markets are even more rigged than the stock market.

Some good coverage of the malicious pushback today by the Apex Preditors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95Hxz6xioQ

'Liberty, Equality, Fraternity'

Is this mass increase of retail investors and crazy stock investing reminiscent of stock market before 1929 crash?

Back in 1929 if you lost everything in the stock market , you ended up in a soup line. Nowadays when the Hedge Funds steal your money, the government will send out more stimulus checks for you to gamble with, let you forego paying rent, and talk about forgiving your student loans.

Misc says

Back in 1929 if you lost everything in the stock market , you ended up in a soup line. Nowadays when the Hedge Funds steal your money, the government will send out more stimulus checks for you to gamble with, let you forego paying rent, and talk about forgiving tour student loans.

Till the free shit runs out.

Pre 1929 everybody was in stock market thinking things would keep going up. The additude towards market seems similar I'm not talking about after the fact consequences.

With the most recent figures, the trading geniuses went on margin another $56 billion in December, after a record $63 billion in November. Based on the market trajectory the trading geniuses put all the money they "saved", their stimulus checks, and borrowed billions and billions more, and put it all into the markets.

After seeing how rigged the system is in favor of Wall Street firms, everyone knows they can lose money, but they gamble because they don't see any consequences.

Just an FYI, any manipulation like this will cause spot prices to de-couple from actual physical prices.

Misc says

but they gamble because they don't see any consequences.

Or they have nothing to lose.
WSB was full of anecdotes about how the stimmy checks were inadequate to solve any real life problem but when they "won" they could get the dog surgery or stay in their apt. or even pay off the wife's student loans.
I get the mentality, if I was broke and somebody handed me 600 bucks I might make a hard hop bet on the craps table.

If every American spent a year buying 2 ounces of silver per year, it would crash the entire banking system.

There's only around 1 billion troy ounces of silver produced per year on the planet.

In the paper game, they just produce more paper. Eventually some entity is going be "F it, crash it". A single wealthy individual could crash the banking system by purchasing 25 billion dollars of physical silver.

Everybody should have at least 500 silver ounces, for when the SHTF. I've shown graphs before where the national debt is priced in ounces of silver. WHEN it returns to its all time high, it's over $1,000 an ounce. May not last long, $1,000 may not buy a loaf of bread at that point - but we're going there.

NuttBoxer says

Just an FYI, any manipulation like this will cause spot prices to de-couple from actual physical prices.

They are already decoupled. Right now, silver is... $26.41. At https://www.apmex.com ~ $31.50 is the lowest price I can find per ounce - that's for a bar that is 50.18 troy ounces.

https://www.apmex.com/category/25685/silver-bars-other-sizes?sortby=pricedesc

That's for some WEIRD bar that nobody wants, which is only going to be used to meltdown.

You may ask "why don't you just buy from Comex and arrange pick up? What? Are you stupid to buy from a 3rd party or something?" - Try buying from an exchange. You'll have to buy something like 5000 ounces, and then you'll be put through hoops to pick it up. Nobody I know has been able to do it.

richwicks says

Nobody I know has been able to do it.

My close associate stood for delivery a few years ago. It was an UNBELIEVABLY cumbersome process.

Why not buy silver coins? Sure there’s a minting markup but you’d have an asset that is very spendable in a pinch.

https://www.moneymetals.com/buy/silver/coins?src=gads&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MME-eComm-Search-Silver&utm_term=silver%20coins%20for%20sale&utm_content=Sale%20Coins

Robert Sproul says

richwicks says

Nobody I know has been able to do it.

My close associate stood for delivery a few years ago. It was an UNBELIEVABLY cumbersome process.

I'm impressed. I know they do everything they can to discourage you. You have to buy through particular brokers as well for it to be even possible I've heard. Another issue is they require you to use security (you can't drive by and throw it in your truck - you need to hire a 3rd party to deliver it). All sorts of bullshit.

Shaman says

Why not buy silver coins? Sure there’s a minting markup but you’d have an asset that is very spendable in a pinch.

Because, the point is to bankrupt the system more than anything else. Deplete the system of the physical assets. We know they lie about the actual assets, just not how much.

JP Morgan for decades was charging storage fees for bars they never bought. Fuck the banks and destroy them. I know it will cause chaos, but for future generations, we collectively need to nail these assholes to the floor.

richwicks says

they do everything they can to discourage you. You have to buy through particular brokers

It was quite an adventure.
The broker was MF Global and they acted like delivery was something that had never happened before.
Transport was part of the headache and expense, he had it delivered to Sunshine Mint and struck into coins.
Oh, and he got his delivery just months before MF blew up and made-man Corzine took it on the lam.
The paper markets are a total sham enterprise, part of the corrupted rackets that need to be brought down.

Robert Sproul says

The broker was MF Global

Mother Fucking Global? That's the company that John Corzine fucked in the ass, mouth, nose, ear, and a 6 knife wounds. He's lucky he was able to get delivery instead of having his investment just outright stolen. Corzine helped write the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, he was guilty of violating it! What a fucking asshole.

Robert Sproul says

The paper markets are a total sham enterprise, part of the corrupted rackets that need to be brought down.

Anybody that has been following the PM market know this. This has been going on for 40 years. Just more people are becoming aware of it. If everybody was aware of it, the system evaporates.

richwicks says

They are already decoupled. Right now, silver is... $26.41. At https://www.apmex.com ~ $31.50 is the lowest price I can find per ounce - that's for a bar that is 50.18 troy ounces.

Be careful who you buy from. I've done business with this guy a few times, always got exactly what I ordered:
https://the-moneychanger.com/answers/how_do_i_buy_sell

FYI, he recently said they are again seeing delays in shipping of around one month. People don't even know how little physical gold and silver is out there.

Ahhh, Corzine. Never has there been a better use of the Justice Department. Billions of dollars were taken out of customer accounts, nobody went to jail, the perps got Christmas bonuses (I'm not kidding) during the reconciliation, but they did make Corzine give up some of his personal money. Not all of the money he scammed, but some of it.

I think I saw a picture of the investigating agents...I thought I saw banker jizz on their chins.

richwicks says

Shaman says

Why not buy silver coins? Sure there’s a minting markup but you’d have an asset that is very spendable in a pinch.

Because, the point is to bankrupt the system more than anything else. Deplete the system of the physical assets. We know they lie about the actual assets, just not how much.

Call around to local coin and pawn shops. Ask them what they have and how much they want for it. Their business is to buy and sell. They will sell you as much as they have and buy from you as much as you got.

I have not been to a coin or pawn shop for a while. Some are honest. Caveat emptor! You should pay a premium when you buy.

I looked up silver's spot price on kitco.com and it's a little more than $26. They will sell you a one ounce coin for a little over $30.

Expect the same price from your coin or pawn shop. If they try to charge you significantly more. Walk away.

If every American bought ten ounces the system would collapse. I might try calling my local coin shop to see what they have.

Just curious...my grandfather passed away three decades ago and was a stamp and coin collector. I don’t think most of it actually has collectible value but I do know he squirled away every actual silver coin he came across(pre 1955?). My parents have it al...I weighed it out and it was a lot...maybe 35 pounds or so.

How much of a hit off spot do you take selling something like that? It’s not getting sold...my mom still has it and has no interest or need in selling it. But I am curious.

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

How much of a hit off spot do you take selling something like that? It’s not getting sold...my mom still has it and has no interest or need in selling it. But I am curious.

First it depends on if dealers are going off spot. They usually are, but a run in paper will completely disconnect spot from physical. Same if physical is in short supply, price will disconnect, but the other direction. Second remember all that weight is not pure silver. If the coins are common, shouldn't be hard to look up the real silver weight. Final projections I've heard are over $100/oz, but that's at peak, which should be sometime in the next few years(will coincide with financial collapse).

richwicks says

Because, the point is to bankrupt the system more than anything else. Deplete the system of the physical assets. We know they lie about the actual assets, just not how much.

I think buying silver coins qualifies towards that goal. If the coin manufacturer/distributor sells more coins, it needs to buy more silver bars to use for minting new coins. And they are the ones who have to jump through the hoops to get the bars, and they’ll have the experience and the stroke to do it in quantity. If a million Americans bought 16 1oz. Coins, that would be 454.5 METRIC TONS (equivalent weight of an aircraft carrier) of silver that was “used up” to sit in lock boxes and safes across the country.

NuttBoxer says

Be careful who you buy from.

WALMART!
https://www.walmart.com/browse/jewelry/precious-metals/3891_4718514?cat_id=3891_4718514_7871360_7916843

They even have Trumpmore silver bars.

So. The silver market opens in 3 hours.

I did a quick search, "Silver for sale" and there is not a lot of product available.
https://www.jmbullion.com/silver/silver-coins/american-silver-eagles/all-american-silver-eagles/
https://www.jmbullion.com/search/?q=#/?_=1&filter.instock.low=1&filter.instock.high=1&page=1&resultsPerPage=60&filter.metal_type=Silver&sort.price=asc
It looks like an ounce of silver is around $50. If you can find one. The paper price is currently $27.

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

Just curious...my grandfather passed away three decades ago and was a stamp and coin collector. I don’t think most of it actually has collectible value but I do know he squirled away every actual silver coin he came across(pre 1955?). My parents have it al...I weighed it out and it was a lot...maybe 35 pounds or so.

How much of a hit off spot do you take selling something like that? It’s not getting sold...my mom still has it and has no interest or need in selling it. But I am curious.

A silver coin has 0.715 ounces for every dollar in the silver coinage. So if you have 10 silver dimes, or 4 silver quarters - that's the same weight. 0.715 ounces of silver in 4 quarters or 10 times.

And it was 1964 that the US went to clad coins.

I'd say (guessing here - you need to double check) you have around 30 lbs of silver which works out to around 500 ounces - so about 15 grand worth of coins at current market rates. I would NOT suggest you sell though. If you want to sell it though, I will buy it.

It's also quite possible that some of those coins are worth quite a bit more than the silver content as well but you'd have to go through and categorize them and learn about coin collecting.

I have 10,000 oz of silver buried somewhere.

porkchopexpress says

I have 10,000 oz of silver buried somewhere.

I think all those hip hop stars dug it up to use in their "grills."

porkchopexpress says

I have 10,000 oz of silver buried somewhere.

If true, you shouldn't ever admit it. Makes you a target.

richwicks says

It's also quite possible that some of those coins are worth quite a bit more than the silver content as well but you'd have to go through and categorize them and learn about coin collecting.

Just keep in mind, at market peak, all premiums disappear. No one will give a fuck what coin you have, only how much silver is in it.

Metals are used to hedge against just inflation. As an investment it's a loosing proposition. What I see is a broken clock which is correct twice a day.

Blue says

Metals are used to hedge against just inflation.

Some of us call them the only real money in existence.

Silver periodically spikes but it will go back down.

RC2006 says

Silver periodically spikes but it will go back down.

But maybe the future won't be like the past.

Patrick says

But maybe the future won't be like the past.

it won't be but it will rhyme.

Silver is undervalued. It spiked to $50 an ounce over 40 years ago and its price has supposedly been manipulated ever since. I suspect the price will pass $50 an ounce for metal in your hand soon, maybe a lot more.

Or not.

But silver does tend to spike up and then go way down. I suspect this is because a lot of hoarders have their price that they will sell, a lot of cash and metal trade hands, and into the new vault it goes.

But it very well may be different this time. Silver is a precious metal and we have been using it for deodorant.

Onvacation says

Hasn't this guy been proven incorrect? Why is silver falling?

GlocknLoad says

Hasn't this guy been proven incorrect?

I am not sure who he is but if every body bought silver it would crash the "paper" market.

Don't know the person but like the idea. That is one of the cool things about an anonymous forum. That and we can say fuck with no repercussions.

GlocknLoad says

Hasn't this guy been proven incorrect? Why is silver falling?

Because the precious metals markets are the absolutely most corrupt in the world.

The US government CAN'T allow 1 billion ounces to be purchased by individuals in a year. If that happened, it bankrupts the entire country.

So, this is what will happen:

Silver will become unavailable for retail investors. Silver will be rationed for manufacturers. There will be months, maybe YEARS of propaganda along the lines of "Oh, there's PLENTY of silver, just not in 1 ounce and small bar form. You're CRAZY to think there might be a shortage" and the mints will claim that the only thing that prevents them from manufacturing more coins is because of "unprecedented demand".

This has already happened before. The same sort of crap was pulled with the London gold pool.

Spot prices can be moved from whatever it is now to $5.00 to $500 - it's wherever they want to take. It's a completely fraudulent market.

It's always been fraudulent, and the advice for years has been, just keep acquiring at a fixed below free market price. Right now, the bullion dealers are completely cleared out of small rounds and bars. In happened over the weekend. It's never happened that quick. There are still large 100 oz bars available but that's it.

But even if they fix the price below market, the bullion dealers will be buying, taking delivery, and minting them into small rounds for the public. Right now, they are selling for an $8 premium above spot. That's unheard of. The largest I've ever seen was $4.

If retail continually purchases, the game would eventually be up. But that being said, they can't continually fix it too low. If they could, it would still be at $5 like it was in 2000.