6
0

Thread For Exposing Blatant Propaganda


 invite response                
2022 Mar 11, 9:40am   20,588 views  219 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (61)   💰tip   ignore  

https://spectatorworld.com/topic/two-wars-ukraine-propaganda-social-media/?source=patrick.net


Ukraine and the war for your mind
The conflict on the ground isn’t the only one — there’s plenty of propaganda afoot too

March 11, 2022

Deterrence works. Russia’s nukes are the only thing keeping the US from full-out war in Ukraine just six months after retreating from Afghanistan. The unprecedented propaganda effort by Ukraine and its helpers in the American mass media to drag the US and NATO directly into the fight has failed — so far. But the struggle — the one for your mind space — is not over.

To understand what follows, you have to wipe away a lot of bull being slung your way. Insanity is not the only explanation for Putin’s actions of the past few weeks. From a Russian standpoint, he is carrying out a rational political-military strategy in Ukraine, seizing Russian-speaking territory such as Donbas, demilitarizing eastern Ukraine by force, and most of all creating a physical buffer zone between his country’s southern border and NATO. That zone may end at the Dnieper River with a loop around Odessa, or it may end at the Polish border, depending on how smoothly things go on the ground and on what level of “back away” message Putin wishes to send NATO.

It’s unlikely that Putin is making the first moves toward some greater conquest. All the bad takes saying “if we don’t stop Putin now, he’ll invade Moldova/Estonia/Poland/all Europe just like Hitler” ignores that the German military in World War Two had some 18 million men under arms. The Russian army today has 1.3 million, the best of which are going to be in Ukraine for a while.

Every war has its “is the juice worth the squeeze” question. Is what you can realistically hope to achieve worth the cost of getting it? For Putin, that means solving his border problem at the cost of maybe a few thousand men and another dollop of weak sanctions. He understood the needs of Europe meant sanctions would never harm sales of the fossil fuels which make up most Russian exports. But nyet to Paypal for you tovarishch! Putin could also look to history and see how decades of sanctions have not changed much in Cuba, Venezuela, Iraq, Iran and North Korea.

Putin most importantly also knew NATO would not fight him on the ground for fear of starting a nuclear war. That is exactly what nukes are for — and is the history of the Cold War in a sentence. Having nukes allows a country to do certain things any way it wants because its actions stay below the threshold of risking atomic war. This is why the US could destroy Gaddafi and Saddam (no nukes) and why the US will never attack North Korea (nukes). Under US pressure, Ukraine in 1994 relinquished the nukes it inherited from the former Soviet Union, enabling the invasion here in 2022.

Being a nuclear superpower makes things easier; the US can fight all over Central America and the Middle East, and Russia in the ’Stans, Crimea and now Ukraine, and none of that is important enough for the other side to consider using nukes to stop it. It is not like America does not know how to step away from a fight which isn’t ours: Crimea, Chechnya, Rwanda, Hungary ’56, Czechoslovakia ’68, initially Afghanistan ’79, even to a certain extent in Syria 2016. Putin knows that. Biden knows that. NATO knows that. Ukraine, however, still thinks it can change the game.

Ukraine knew on Day One it didn’t have enough men or weapons to defeat the Russians. Its only hope to remain a unified nation (it is easy to imagine a divided Ukraine, Western Zone and Russian Eastern Zone) is outside help. A no-fly zone, some airstrikes to blunt Russian advances. Maybe some of those Polish/NATO pilots planning to ferry F-16s to Ukraine stay to fly them in combat? Something, anything.

That’s why America is being blitzed with Ukrainian propaganda, and your brother-in-law is ready to head to Europe with his never-cleaned hunting rifle. The goal is to change public opinion such that a weak guy like Joe Biden starts to doubt himself. The goal is get Biden to take that Pentagon meeting laying out options for some limited bombing, or to listen to those analysts saying the US could set up a small no-fly zone on Ukraine’s western edge to facilitate humanitarian aid. Drop in some Special Forces. Something, anything.

The purpose of the propaganda is to get Biden to sign off on something hopefully small enough that it falls below the threshold of provoking a nuclear response. A risky and delicate tasking. The bad news is Ukrainian propaganda is working. A non-partisan 74 percent of Americans say NATO should impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine. And that’s even as we are just getting started.

A quick propaganda recap. We’ve had the hero phase with the non-existent Ghost of Kyiv and the supermodels with guns. We’ve had the Russians-are-going-to-kill-us-all phase, with the faux threat of invasion to the West and the faux scare the Russians were going to create a Chernobyl-like nuclear accident by shelling a power plant. We are currently moving through the “not verifiable atrocities” phase. Alongside this is beefcake talk about Zelensky, the likes of which we haven’t seen since before the cancellations of Andrew Cuomo and Michael Avenatti. The fact-checking mania of the Covid era is in the dustbin of history as American media removes all the filters on pro-Ukrainian content.


The quality of the propaganda is not important (any scrap metal on snowy ground is breaking news of another Russian helo down, even if the metal has “Acme Junk Pile” written on it). The quantity is important, the attempt to overwhelm American mind space to the point where logic is shoved into the back corner. There is a growing cottage industry of “experts” explaining how to can go to war without going to THAT kind of war. Dissenting voices are few, and are often labeled as “Putin lovers,” with late night hosts hurling homophobic slurs at them like high school kids.

It all sounds silly when the effect of propaganda is to convince Americans higher gas prices are the cost of freedom, or booking an Airbnb they’ll never stay at will save Ukraine, or refusing Russian dressing on a salad. But it is deadly serious. There are two battles now playing out over Ukraine. The one on the ground — and the one on your social media seeking to drag America into the mud.

Only half a year after the sad ending in Afghanistan, it is stunning to watch America again contemplate going to war for some abstract purpose far removed from our own core interests. And this time it is the risk of a nuclear exchange to remind us of our mistake, not just an inglorious departure from Kabul.


« First        Comments 57 - 96 of 219       Last »     Search these comments

57   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 2:35pm  

mostly reader says
richwicks says
What poppycock.
You didn't even read it, did you? Read it. Compare timelines. Not just one point, the entire timeline.


I have compared timelines. The audio call was made public 3 weeks before Yanukovych was deposed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2XNN0Yt6D8&source=patrick.net

That was posted on February 7, 2014

Yanukovych was removed from office on February 22, 2014

See how easy the truth is? That's why I prefer it. It's much easier to understand than a lie.

I don't think you're worth listening to, and frankly given the quality of conversation I've had on this site over the course of the last few years, I'm doubtful you have much of an impact here. I honestly don't think you're worth much consideration.

mostly reader says
I explained why your "CIA coup" assertion is dishonest.


Well, you attempted to lie about it. That's fine.

I'm well beyond the anger of having dupes and propagandists being around. They are NEVER going away. I fully accept that. I can't even get the littlest bit upset with them. Like disease, it's never going away.
58   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Mar 12, 2:42pm  

At George of the 2020 Color Revolution elites played on us. The martyr of the movement… fuck this government
59   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 2:47pm  

Fortwaynemobile says
At George of the 2020 Color Revolution elites played on us. The martyr of the movement… fuck this government


Yeah, that's right. This guy is a hero saint:



And this is a white supremacist:



But it's all changed! We're getting COMPLETELY ACCURATE information about Ukraine now. They wouldn't lie about a war would they?


original link


Well.. They wouldn't be lying now.. :P
60   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 2:47pm  

richwicks says
I have compared timelines. The audio call was made public 3 weeks before Yanukovych was deposed.
So, you have ignored the emphasis - that the uprising started MONTHS prior. You also missed my point in capitals. You still wouldn't touch it. It destroys you.

I'll repeat that part:

We now know that Nuland's line was compromised. WHERE THE FUCK ARE HER CONVERSATIONs THAT WOULD FIT THE TIMELINE OF THE BEGINNING OF THE UPRISING?? Where are the conversations which would incriminate us in starting the whole thing? Something going back to November 2013, or even prior?

Russia invited this question by de-facto disclosing that her phone was bugged.

None. Nada. Zilch. Apparently, this is the best that they had. THIS IS THE BEST THEY HAD! They couldn't produce a conversation which lead to Maidan in 2013. They couldn't produce a convesation which would explain how all those mentioned players - Yatsenyuk, Klitchko, others - got to the top of the movement. They only produced the conversation which discussed how we wanted to play/shuffle the cards in the landscape which already was there.

Which doesn't stop some unscrupulous minds from throwing around the "US revolt" theory left and right, where it fits and where it doesn't. Because "speculation by association".

* "November" - because that's when unrest on Maidan started
61   AmericanKulak   2022 Mar 12, 2:49pm  

Fortwaynemobile says
At George of the 2020 Color Revolution elites played on us. The martyr of the movement… fuck this government


You got it.

richwicks says
Yeah, that's right. This guy is a hero saint:


Yup, a roided out drug addict never do well who beat up girlfriends, sold drugs, and invaded then burgled the home of a pregnant lady disguised in a security uniform, smacking her pregnant ass around. Nobody stays that big so long without Roids or Pre-Roids - see also Hugh Jackman, another Hollywood Special Exemption from the Rules All Else Must Follow. No 40 year old goes from reasonably fit to jacked in a few months by simply hitting the gym and eating chicken and broccoli and Protein Whey Shakes.
62   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 2:58pm  

AmericanKulak says
mostly reader says
Budapest Memorandum


Violated in 2004 and 2014 by the US and UK when they fomented coups, thus failing to:

Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.

The dangling of EU Carrots and US aid for 'correct' domestic and foreign policies:
Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine to influence their politics.

We have "Toria" Nuland on tape discussing who should replace Yankovytch before he was overthrown.
I addressed the Noland/Yanukovytch comment in a post more fitting for this thread. https://patrick.net/post/1344073&40#comment-1826473 But duly noted that you 1) compare "dangling of EU Carrots and US aid" to first hybrid war and then invasion 2) assert nonetheless that Russia is a trustworthy partner.
Got it.
63   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 3:14pm  

mostly reader says
So, you have ignored the emphasis -


I'm just kind of ignoring you.

When I said I didn't think you were worth much consideration, I wasn't saying that just to insult you. I think it's quite a waste of my time to pay attention to what you write.

For example, it's entirely irrelevant even if Yanukovych was about to be removed anyhow, the fact of the matter is that Nuland is clearly deciding on who the next "leader" is going to be. That's a fact. It's not a supposition, it's not an inference, that's absolutely without doubt, true.

Now if Nuland wasn't such a stupid fucking whore, she would have denied the conversation, that would have been plausible at least. But she didn't. And to compound it our bullshit "news" media only reported her SHOCKING (!!! clasp my pearls !!!) use of vulgarity, and omitted the part where she was talking about who the next leader of Ukraine was going to be and who wouldn't be.

Our fucking system, it's just hilarious. They don't even respect the public enough to LIE to them at this point.

And you, you poor dope, you still believe it or claim you do, and are incensed I don't. Just ridiculous.

My government and my news, they are worth nothing more than my contempt at this point.
64   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 3:43pm  

richwicks says
Now if Nuland wasn't such a stupid fucking whore, she would have denied the conversation, that would have been plausible at least. But she didn't.
OMG. Is that enlightenment coming through? Nah, doubt it.

Indeed. She should've foreseen into what kind of message the propaganda machine will turn this conversation. She didn't, that whore, and (I can only assume) didn't make much of it.

But how is that timeline check going? Have you already discovered that Maidan started in 2013? Have you found answers to that inconvenient "how come that's the best they have" question? Or waiting for instructions?
65   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 3:57pm  

mostly reader says
richwicks says
Now if Nuland wasn't such a stupid fucking whore, she would have denied the conversation, that would have been plausible at least. But she didn't.
OMG. Is that enlightenment coming through? Nah, doubt it.


?

mostly reader says
Indeed. She should've foreseen into what kind of message the propaganda machine will turn this conversation. She didn't, that whore, and (I can only assume) didn't make much of it.


You use "propaganda machine" in the way our government uses "insurrection" or "white supremacist".

I'm tired of newspeak, and people, like you, who commonly use this sort of tactic, simply can't be taken seriously. We've had the audio for nearly a decade.

mostly reader says

But how is that timeline check going? Have you already discovered that Maidan started in 2013?


It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what happened prior.

I know exactly how my government overthrows other governments. I know what they did in Operation Ajax and PBSuccess. I know how they fund astroturf campaigns, and you do as well, since they did it in the United States with Antifa and BLM. It took our intelligence agencies 4 years to toss out Trump. How long did they work in Ukraine? I don't know, but Nuland said they pumped in 5 billion dollars for the effort.

If the coup was not successful, and it failed, the audio recording is still important because it shows US intervention in Ukraine something we shouldn't be fucking doing. Self determination IS I believe a human right, our nation, or rather our intelligence agencies, subvert that.

The reason Hunter Biden, a cokehead loser, is on the BOD of Burisma, is just because of US government intervention and blatant corruption. Who isn't fed up with this kind of shit? You're not apparently.

If our pederast pervert president Biden was LEGITIMATELY elected, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but he wasn't. He was installed by our intelligence agencies and WE have no right to self determination. Who is our enemy? Well, I'd put Russia pretty far down that list. They aren't fucking with our elections, but that lie can stand because our traitorous intelligence agencies have deemed it to be so.

A gestapo runs our country, we don't. You're a promoter of that gestapo, because you're either a coward or an idiot. Doesn't particularly matter which it is. Even the traitors that work in the intelligence agencies will be fucked by that machine in time. They're just useful idiots.
66   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 4:05pm  

richwicks says
It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what happened prior.
It's super relevant. It destroys your narrative. Which you would've known if you read and comprehended my post.

You really should change your handle to "mostly writer".
67   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 4:12pm  

mostly reader says
richwicks says
It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what happened prior.
It's super relevant. Which you would've known if you read and comprehended my post.


The only point I've been making repeatedly is that Victoria Nuland was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.

When has that been part of the job description of the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs?

What right does the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs have to pick a new leader in Ukraine?

Now that she is Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs she's explaining why there are US biological research labs in Ukraine. What are they doing in Ukraine?

It's astounding. What a fucking snake she is.

mostly reader says
You really should change your handle to "mostly writer".


No, I prefer to use my real name when voicing my political dissent.
68   AmericanKulak   2022 Mar 12, 4:25pm  

mostly reader says
I addressed the Noland/Yanukovytch comment in a post more fitting for this thread. https://patrick.net/post/1344073&40#comment-1826473 But duly noted that you 1) compare "dangling of EU Carrots and US aid" to first hybrid war and then invasion 2) assert nonetheless that Russia is a trustworthy partner.


Not worth answering. It's very clear to everybody who isn't a Faux Skeptic that the US and Soros NGOs were deeply involved in organizing the Maidan Protests.

The support for the Maidan Protesters was present from day one when the US warned the then-Ukrainian government to be very careful with the protesters, basically treat them the way Blue Cities treated Antifa/BLM rioters, to let them run riot no matter what.

This is like saying "Mossadegh wasn't overthrown with CIA help, it was totally organic and domestic, yeah, that's the ticket."
69   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 4:36pm  

richwicks says
The only point I've been making repeatedly is that Victoria Nuland was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.
Of course she was. And that's a truth. And I further explained how you turned it into a lie. Omission here, omission there.. it looks like you know the drill.

Anyways, that was fun. Hope it helps someone.
70   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 4:50pm  

mostly reader says
richwicks says
The only point I've been making repeatedly is that Victoria Nuland was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.
Of course she was. And that's a truth. And I further explained how you turned it into a lie. Omission here, omission there.. it looks like you know the drill.


Again, this is why I don't treat you seriously.

The Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs was openly choosing the next leader of Ukraine before the position for leader of Ukraine was open.

She had no business doing this. Obviously. This is some fucking insane level of fuckery of our government, and you just ignore it. Could you imagine if a Russian diplomat of ANY rank was openly discussing in a conversation who the next leader of the United States was going to be just prior to having the president ousted and then 3 weeks later, that's who the next "president" was?

I keep going back to this as if it's a big fucking deal, because it's a very big fucking deal. Ukraine is at war because of this. Think this asshole is really in charge of anything?



Do you?

A US puppet has been installed in a nation where Russia has been twice attacked before, and who is hosting biological "research" labs.

What
the
fuck??

If say, what happened in Ukraine happened in Mexico and Russia was behind it, you'd be singing and entirely different tune. What if Russia had biological "research" labs in Mexico?

And let's say the US went to war with Mexico over this bullshit, and the Russian puppet leader there refused to stand down, refused to surrender, and encouraged his civilian population to fight with improvised weapons? Zelenskyy is a fucking monster who is INTENTIONALLY getting people killed.

What would you be saying about this? I'd be saying the same thing as I am now

It's just crazy. You're crazy.
71   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 5:24pm  

richwicks says
I'm just kind of ignoring you... (followed by hundreds of lines of text and recycling the same points)
This is not what "ignoring" looks like.

"mostly writer". Seriously. Very fitting.
72   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 5:31pm  

mostly reader says
richwicks says
I'm just kind of ignoring you... (followed by hundreds of lines of text and recycling the same points)
This is not what "ignoring" looks like.


Yeah, I was being sloppy in my writing.

What I should have said is that I do not respect your thinking at all, it's not worth my time to try to explain why it's wrong, and I don't think you could possibly change any minds to your version of what I laughably would call "thinking" anyhow so there's little point in going through the effort or time to explain what is wrong about how you bizarrely draw conclusions.

Or more succinctly, I think everybody here realizes you're incorrect, and you're incapable of realizing it.
73   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 6:09pm  

richwicks says
Yeah, I was being sloppy in my writing.
Indeed. You are also sloppy in your thinking.

richwicks says
Or more succinctly, I think everybody here realizes you're incorrect, and you're incapable of realizing it.

I wouldn't know that I'm incorrect until someone destroys my argument. You haven't, you've started shatting bricks instead. You probably understand that you've been owned. You should also realize that your argumentum ad populum just made you look like a FB snowflake.
74   Patrick   2022 Mar 12, 6:11pm  

https://markcrispinmiller.substack.com/p/what-we-all-need-to-know-about-the?s=r&source=patrick.net


What we all need to know about the propaganda coming from "Ukraine"
More on the fake atrocities, a (real) false flag attack, and those parts of the story that the propaganda is NOT telling us

Mark Crispin Miller

A rundown of the many fake atrocities that millions think were actually committed by the Russians in Ukraine:
https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/ukraine/?source=patrick.net

An eyewitness of a Ukrainian false flag attack tells what she saw:
https://21stcenturywire.com/2022/03/12/witness-exposes-ukrainian-army-false-flag-operation-in-donbass/?source=patrick.net

“The White House is outsourcing propaganda,” by “briefing” TikTok stars about “Ukraine”:
https://t.me/realCRP/3605?source=patrick.net

For a fuller picture of the current crisis:
In a talk at Yale in 2018, Vladimir Pozner offered crucial background to the US/Russia relationship, which was already at an all-time low:

A sharp take on this madness, from Vladimir Golstein, Professor of Slavic Studies at Brown University:

The Truth Barrier
Words From A Russian Professor Of Slavic Studies: Western Powers, Was It Worth It?
Just to Sum Up. So Russia gets nervous about NATO pushing into Ukraine. Fine. People should understand it, including Americans, who were ready to go to war over Cuban missile crisis. Putin organizes a real diplomatic blitzkrieg. Lavrov and Putin meet dozens of western leaders in less than a month. Yet, all he gets is a middle finger…
Read more
12 hours ago · 68 likes · 24 comments · Celia Farber
“Those people’s lives don’t matter”: On the staggering hypocrisy of the outrage over “Ukraine”:
https://content.blubrry.com/last_american_vagabond/TDWU-3-10-22-FINAL.mp3?source=patrick.net

Dilyana Gatandzhieva, Bulgarian investigative journalist, on the US bio-weapons program—an article from 2018, and a recent interview on the US bio-labs in Ukraine:
The Pentagon Bio-weapons
By Dilyana Gaytandzhieva April 29, 2018

https://archive.ph/N0IAR?source=patrick.net#selection-395.0-446.0
75   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 6:19pm  

mostly reader says
I wouldn't know that I'm incorrect until someone destroys my argument.


I'm satisfied you can't possibly ever find any error in your position because you're not intellectually capable of doing it.

I think other people here can easily see the error in your position.

I can't appeal to your standards because you have no standards. That's the minimum somebody needs to have, you don't them.
76   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Mar 12, 6:24pm  

richwicks says
mostly reader says
I wouldn't know that I'm incorrect until someone destroys my argument.


I'm satisfied you can't possibly ever find any error in your position because you're not intellectually capable of doing it.

I think other people here can easily see the error in your position.


You two, boys you’ll enjoy the convo a lot more if you take it less personal and insult each other less. Just old age advice. Patnet is a nice site, we should all learn to get along.
77   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 6:48pm  

richwicks says
I'm satisfied you can't possibly ever find any error in your position because you're not intellectually capable of doing it.


Your problem is, you can't find any error in my position either. But really, really, REALLY want to. So you try to counter by throwing more cliches into the air.

Just for your shopping convenience, comrade: https://patrick.net/post/1344073&#comment-1826473
78   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 6:50pm  

Fortwaynemobile says
You two, boys you’ll enjoy the convo a lot more if you take it less personal and insult each other less. Just old age advice. Patnet is a nice site, we should all learn to get along.
As of 02/23/2022 it got personal. Sometimes you have to call things for what they are.
79   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 7:02pm  

mostly reader says
Your problem is, you can't find any error in my position either.


I'm just tired of talking to a brick wall. I don't think you're this obtuse. I just think you're simply dishonest.

It's sort of like this. I don't think I could convince Rachael Maddow that Russia didn't hack our election, and it's not because she's stupid, she knows she's lying. Similarly, that's how I feel about you. I don't think you actually hold the position you claim to hold. I think you're lying.

I think it's quite obvious that the US overthrew Ukraine, that the US picked the next leaders, that they were infiltrating Ukraine for a long time, that the leadership of Ukraine are all puppets of the United States, and that the US has been targeting Russia for a very long time. I think this is obvious to you, but you're lying about it.

There's a good saying I like, it is "you cannot wake a person that pretends to sleep". This is because the person isn't asleep, they are just pretending to be asleep. You, I think, pretend to be asleep, and there's no way to wake you. You will continue to lie, in every sense of the word, forever

I think people going through the tedium of this thread would come to the same conclusion I have anyhow.
80   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Mar 12, 7:23pm  

You two watch Oliver Stones new documentary on Ukraine, it’s very eye opening on what went on behind the scenes. The corruption, the theft, the coups, it’s bad. People of Ukraine are fucked by their government even more than we are by Biden puppet admin.
81   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 8:10pm  

richwicks says
I think it's quite obvious that the US overthrew Ukraine, that the US picked the next leaders, that they were infiltrating Ukraine for a long time, that the leadership of Ukraine are all puppets of the United States, and that the US has been targeting Russia for a very long time. I think this is obvious to you, but you're lying about it.
What's missing? Any attempt to counter my argument. Covering it up with BS (in hope that it disappears?)

You, per usual, resort to recycling same talking point.

richwicks says
I think people going through the tedium of this thread would come to the same conclusion I have anyhow.


Anyone, ANYONE who actually pays attention to the details of your tantrums (as I have) will notice how you substitute quantity for quality. The weakness of this MO is that you stretch yourself thin. It's just a matter of picking an arbitrary point from your laundry list and not letting you drift away. Not letting you to drift away is important: you get demolished, and then throw another point into the air. Or several. As if they are a substitute for your lack of reasoning on the prior.

Once that hypothetical "anyone" spots this pattern, demolishing you is easy. I did it once in the past, on your USS Liberty tantrum, but that's not typical of me. I'd usually just chuckle and move along.

Not this time.
82   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 8:19pm  

Fortwaynemobile says
You two watch Oliver Stones new documentary on Ukraine, it’s very eye opening on what went on behind the scenes. The corruption, the theft, the coups, it’s bad. People of Ukraine are fucked by their government even more than we are by Biden puppet admin.
Sure. Ukraine was a pit of corruption.

Ironically, if it survives it now has best chance be become a new nation. That's how nations are made.

Russia has no such hope. It's best prospect is to be China's bitch for decades to come. Regardless of the outcome of the war.
83   fdhfoiehfeoi   2022 Mar 12, 8:21pm  

socal2 says
Russia held Ukraine and a huge chunk of Eastern Europe behind a fucking concrete wall for nearly half a century stunting generations of people to the failures of Totalitarian Marxism while sending millions to the Gulag. (Not to mention the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin during the 1930's Red Famine)

They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.

Assuming you are older than 20 - do you have no memory of this?

Or is all that history just fake news like all of the Marxist professors in US Academia claim?


This thread is supposed to be about propaganda. What's the propaganda angle in all this?
84   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 8:37pm  

NuttBoxer says
socal2 says
Russia held Ukraine and a huge chunk of Eastern Europe behind a fucking concrete wall for nearly half a century stunting generations of people to the failures of Totalitarian Marxism while sending millions to the Gulag. (Not to mention the millions killed in the Ukraine by Stalin during the 1930's Red Famine)

They also spread their Marxist poison to all corners of the world (Asia, Africa, Middle East, South/Central America) fucking up more human life for generations.

Assuming you are older than 20 - do you have no memory of this?

Or is all that history just fake news like all of the Marxist professors in US Academia claim?


This thread is supposed to be about propaganda. What's the propaganda angle in all this?


The irony here is that Russia isn't the USSR, it's NOT communist, it's had a HUGE resurgence in religion. Really, it's more like the 1950's United States than the US is.

It's the US that is going into communism. Look at how the US has changed. We have censorship now, we never had that before. Our news media is bullshit like Pravda and Izvestia was 40 years ago. Our public education is indoctrination, to such an extent we're having to pass bills so kindergarten children aren't be taught about sex. Conservatives are called traitors and domestic terrorists by our intelligence agencies.

We have sham elections, where we have doddering old half dead men being the "party leader" whose only accomplishment is to be REALLY OLD and having been in the party for 1/2 century. I'm frankly surprised he's lived this long. There's tons of rumors he has body doubles and some of them are CREDIBLE.

OUR nation is constantly at war and is expanding "the ideals" of this nation through force.

We have a nation wide surveillance system. Our government has to cut off foreign "propaganda" and news, I remember when the USSR did this.

We're the new USSR. We just went through a shut down of 2 years, where people couldn't legally attend church, but they were able to attend violent "mostly peaceful protests".

We have open corruption now, where our bullshit president has his crack head unprosecuted son selling artwork. We have open, obvious criminals who will never face prosecution because our government no longer prosecutes criminals in our political class. Political protests which are ACTUALLY non violent ends with having government agents entrap people and them put 500 people in prison with no bail and no trial date. It's been 15 months and now we are starting to have two minute hates of Putin. Every few years we have a new Hitler. Assad was Hitler, Qaddafi was Hitler, Hussein was Hitler. It's so fucking ridiculous.

How much more fucking clown world can this get?
85   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 8:50pm  

richwicks says
The irony here is that Russia isn't the USSR, it's NOT communist, it's had a HUGE resurgence in religion. Really, it's more like the 1950's United States than the US is.
It's as if you have close ties to Russia, wink, wink.

It's more like the 1950's US all right. Except for mandatory military draft, having to carry ID papers when you go outside, COVID vaccination QR codes to get into a restaurant (Moscow), and resurgence in religion in which all the leading figures of the religion are close buddies with "team Putler". Oh, and all that poverty outside of major cities. But that's of course minor.
86   AmericanKulak   2022 Mar 12, 8:54pm  

mostly reader says
It's more like the 1950's US all right. Except for mandatory military draft, having to carry ID papers when you go outside, vaccination QR codes to get into a restaurant (Moscow), and resurgence in religion in which all the leading figures of the religion are close buddies with "team Putler". Oh, and all that poverty outside of major cities. But that's of course minor.





We had a military draft in the 1950s, ask Elvis Presley. Or ask any draftee in the 60s and 70s.

We just came off ID Papers in many US States just to eat at a restaurant, same thing with the QR Codes. They were also over much of Europe AND Canada.

We had a President that was endorsed by Radical Far Left Preachers who screamed "GD America!!!" in blasephemous tones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix-AMYos0Js

And there's tons of poverty in and outside major US Cities, along with an opioid crisis caused by Big Pharma and the Revolving Door Rubber Stamp FDA. Oxycontin, the less addictive opiate (wink, wink).
87   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 8:56pm  

mostly reader says
It's as if you have close ties to Russia, wink, wink.


I had family trapped in Poland. I know what the fucking communists were like. We used to send them food. 1/2 of it was stolen before they received it.

Russia is INFINITELY improved over what it used to be. Vastly improved.

And the US is FAR WORSE.

The US isn't a democratic republic anymore, it's always pushing for some stupid war, it has constant propaganda, we have the woke mafia, LGBTQ bullshit is on kids television, we just went through a fake pandemic which have national surveillance.

This was all unthinkable in 1980.

Oh, and everybody that disagrees with obvious stupid bullshit, they are Russian bots and spies! Just fucking hilarious.
88   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 9:01pm  

> AmericanKulak

You are right! That must've been what "mostly writer" meant when he compared today's Russia to 1950's US (LOL).

Except for the poverty part. There's poverty and then there's poverty. I'm not talking about "I can't live on only the corn" type of poverty. I'm talking about "I don't have enough corn to feed my family" type of poverty.
89   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 9:11pm  

richwicks says
Russia is INFINITELY improved over what it used to be. Vastly improved.
You know that how? Time to disclose your connections and drop the pretense of impartial reasoning (wink, wink) I do agree with you that roaming the streets of Moscow (or St. Peterburg, or Yekaterinburg, or Vladivostok) was fun when you had dollars in your pockets. Except for those damn papers which you had to carry with you just in case.

We can compare the notes, comrade.
90   AmericanKulak   2022 Mar 12, 9:14pm  

mostly reader says
You are right! That must've been what "mostly writer" meant when he compared today's Russia to 1950's US (LOL).


I'm sorry my examples, particularly with the military draft and several of the largest cities and states in America imposing vaccine IDs to eat in restaurants, ruined your narrative.

And yes, there is half-starved poverty in America, mostly due to the Outsourcing of Jobs, the ensuing loss of housing value and breakup and families, complicated by an Addiction wave of Oxycontin AND Synthetic Opiates, both thanks to CHYna and Revolving Door Status Quo Corporate-Government Executives and Officials. Much of it is in and around what was once vibrant Middle America, Small Cities from Binghampton to Weirton to Akron to Saginaw.
91   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 9:16pm  

AmericanKulak says
I'm sorry my examples, particularly with the military draft and several of the largest cities and states in America imposing vaccine IDs to eat in restaurants, ruined your narrative.
That wasn't much of a narrative. But I think that they really, REALLY, ruined the "mostly writer"'s comparison between todays Russia and US back then. See, he meant it in the most Russia-friendly way. And then there you come with your clarifications. I didn't think that I'd have to explain it, but they made his comparison not quite as flattering.
92   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 9:22pm  

mostly reader says
richwicks says
Russia is INFINITELY improved over what it used to be. Vastly improved.
You know that how?


I have Russian coworkers today. Those didn't exist in 1950 unless they were defectors.

Russia collapsed because it dumped all their resources into the military. The same thing will collapse the United States in time.
93   mostly reader   2022 Mar 12, 9:47pm  

richwicks says
I have Russian coworkers today. Those didn't exist in 1950 unless they were defectors.
So, your knowledge of Russia today comes from your coworkers (plural). Is that your primary source? Had to confirm this because, you see, with all this confidence one could think that you are involved more directly. You also have Ukrainian coworkers I recall. Also plural. I hope that all these coworkers get along.

Do you trust them with everything that they say? What's their take on the current invasion?
94   richwicks   2022 Mar 12, 10:27pm  

mostly reader says
richwicks says
I have Russian coworkers today. Those didn't exist in 1950 unless they were defectors.
So, your knowledge of Russia today comes from your coworkers (plural). Is that your primary source? Had to confirm this because, you see, with all this confidence one could think that you are involved more directly.


I've had a couple. I had long conversations with Arsen about our propaganda. It's almost painful for me to have to talk to most Americans, because they have NO CLUE what is going on. These last two years has been a real wakeup call to me in that I can now see and understand just how much people are controlled by US propaganda. I had neighbors that were Russian. They were expats - they basically said "I'm not free in Russia" - they were young.

I know some people long for the old days of the USSR - it depended on where you were in that society. Certainly some don't.

mostly reader says
You also have Ukrainian coworkers I recall.


No, I had a former coworker that I was friends with that became an expatriot in Ukraine. The last time I communicated with him, somebody had either hacked into his Skype account, or stolen his laptop. I think he may be dead at this point. I have completely lost contact with him.

mostly reader says
Do you trust them with everything that they say? What's their take on the current invasion?


My point of view is what they say is their opinion. I don't necessarily have to know what is true, it's just their opinion, their viewpoint but I haven't discussed it with them.

Given the amount of hysteria and programming people accept, I don't want to draw attention to the fact they are Russian and I'm in Silicon Valley, people are supposed to be smart here, but they aren't. 90% of the public are drones. Even people that TRY to understand what is going on. I have a friend that sincerely believes that the reason the US went to war in Syria was because of the civil war there, and Europe was BEGGING the US to go in to stop the conflict. He read this in the Economist, there's the Alawites and Sunni (I believe). He's an MIT graduate, and he's this naive at 55 or whatever. Because he read this in the Economist, and it's not the same stuff he hears on TV he assumes it must be correct. He COULDN'T be buying propaganda..

I was talking to my cousin, and we broke up laughing when I told him this.

I know what my country is like, I understand the foreign policy of it. The US NEVER goes to war for a "humanitarian reason" ever. I don't always know all the reasons the US goes to a particular war, but I know they always lie about it. The reason they lie, is that if we knew the truth, it would appalling.

If you think the US government isn't doing cartwheels to see Ukraine getting invaded by Russia, you are DEAD WRONG. They want an enemy, they want to restart the Cold War. The war on terror was a bullshit war, and it's unwinnable (of course, that's the best kind because it goes on forever) but it's petering out. If the public is distracted by the evil man over there, we don't pay attention to the evil men here.

To our establishment, this is just a nice distraction.

Look at how dumb people are. Suddenly they are all humanitarians and so on. When RUSSIA bombs somebody that's BAAAAAAD, but the US has been doing it for years, even lying to start the wars. They care only about what the teeeeveeee and social media tells them to care about. They can't see the hypocrisy.

All wars are horrible. What drives me crazy about this, and with you in particular, is that you keep saying stuff like "well, Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO anyhow" - well, if that's the true, that's part of the Russian PROPAGANDA to justify this war. Zelenskyy can take that way from Putin. You don't see this as a contradiction, IF Zelenskyy (or his handlers) don't want war.

The US has for 20 years, but in particular the last 5 been demonizing Russia. This was made 5 years ago:


original link

Our intelligence agencies for YEARS were directly accusing Russia, a nuclear super power, as having put in Trump to prevent him from doing ANY negotiation with Putin or have any deals or any agreements that would benefit Russia in any way. The US refuses to negotiate with Russia over ANYTHING. The Skripals weren't poisoned by the FSB, the story is ridiculous. Why the fuck are they doing this?
95   mostly reader   2022 Mar 13, 8:23am  

Don't bother switching to other topics (Intelligent Agencies, Skripals, etc.). As pointed out, this pattern of yours is well recognized and you won't be getting away with it here.

richwicks says
I have Russian coworkers today.

richwicks says
I've had a couple.

You "have" them or "you've had" them?

Your enthusiasm describing Russia today doesn't match familiarity with the subject that you chose to disclose (coworker hearsay). This is a mismatch. You are either stretching data points to fit your world view, or hiding something.

richwicks says
I don't want to draw attention to the fact they are Russian and I'm in Silicon Valley, people are supposed to be smart here, but they aren't.

This sentence doesn't make sense unless they are remote workers currently in Russia. Are they?

Your veneration of Russia can't be explained by coworker chit-chat alone. It implies either a more direct connection which you didn't mention, or a leap of judgement. Comment?
96   mell   2022 Mar 13, 9:39am  

For those who say that rt.com or any Russian govt pnwed press agency is "far worse" than what the US has, you are wrong. Anybody who has to maintain an active business life and connections and thus with some exposure to "online news" or formerly deemed "business sites" such as LinkedIn knows it's as bad as Russian Pravda at the height of the cold war. Not a day goes by that some organization or expo isn't destroyed by claims of "!rayscysm!" and "!seschual harassment!" and shit is flung like goebbels would be proud of, with zero proof, by shady agent provocateurs or useful bipoczlgbtqxyz+---- wommynz tools. You'd be daft to run a small business these days which is not complete shut off from propaganda. There is no useful information anywhere in US news or business sites, it's all 100% propaganda. The one difference is that it's mostly government that writes that stuff for Russia while the US is using the tactics of employing crisis actors and agent provocateurs and big tech to do their dirty deeds. How do you think we got as far with codified racial discrimination (against asians and whites mostly) as we have today and edicts that force experimental deadly gene "therapies" into adults and kids bodies under threat of job loss? How many people have died from the forced jabs and even far more from actively withholding tried and proven antiviral and anti inflammatory drugs? 100s of thousands at the minimum! Where is the outrage? Please get a grip and start cleaning up your own country before !muh Russia! The new racists and anti-vaxxers du jour are Russian born citizens and those who dare to have a different opinion or question the narrative! Down with Emmanuel Goldstein! Hate!

« First        Comments 57 - 96 of 219       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions   gaiste