patrick.net

DeficitHawk says

The vax is safe and effective. -- Yup, per the double blind studies

https://sukwan.substack.com/p/so-what-happened-to-the-pfizer-vaccine

What does it take to really stop the shots and prosecute those responsible? I think we have to go back to the trial data. If the rate of serious adverse events was 1 in 800 in the Pfizer trial, then they would know that their product would cause material harm to millions of people once it was rolled out to so much of the world’s population. Pfizer almost certainly intentionally kept sample sizes very low, threw people out of the analysis, and of course unblinded the study two years before it was over, eliminating the placebo group.

A single death or serious adverse reaction in a clinical trial would need to be reported and extrapolated out to the entire target population this intervention is meant for. That is done to look for rare signals, but the damages can be calculated out. In the Pfizer children’s arm, for example, one 12 year old girl, Maddie de Garay, suffered disability and became wheelchair bound. Pfizer classified her injury as abdominal pain, because otherwise the rate of the jab causing permanent disability would have to be set to 1 in 1200 (the size of the study arm), which is insane for an illness posing statistically no risk to the age group. Pfizer would do anything to hide the bodies of those who might have died or been severely long term injured from the jabs. I speculated on that myself regarding a missing VAERS report many months ago...

I also personally know someone whose doctor refused to file a VAERS report after she got myocarditis from the vaxx.

OK I was surprised I found common ground with a few people on immigration.

Let me try another, maybe low hanging fruit, where I dont fully align with other democrats... Attitudes towards college, free college, and student debt forgiveness.

I think college is fine for people who want to go. And there are some professions that really benefit from learning you get there. But, I dont think that means everyone has to go, or should go, or is entitled to go.

People want to make social mobility better by enabling poor people to go to college, and I agree with that from the meritocracy/social mobility perspective, I want avenues so that family wealth is not the determining factor for your income potential... But policies have gone way too far.. trying to push EVERYONE to go. And trying to say no one should have to pay for it, even not have to pay back their loans. It goes hand in hand with not respecting people who do useful trades that didnt go to college, a sort of elitism in the guise of promoting social mobility, trying to build a purely white collar economy.

I dont think there is any reason that politicians should strive to build a purely college educated white collar economy. Actually I think that's a terrible idea. If the policy succeeds, you'll have a civilization that cant feed itself.. If the policy fails, you'll have a situation where grads from universities take jobs that didnt benefit from college, having wasted 4 years of economically productive time.. either way the policy leads to a bad outcome.

DeficitHawk says

The vax is safe and effective.

https://nitter.pussthecat.org/hugh_mankind/status/1590733326553600003

New World Odor™
@hugh_mankind
Nov 10
BMJ's editor Dr. Peter Doshi raises alarming questions About Safety Concerns

“Pfizer and Moderna trial data are both showing a clear signal of increased risk of serious adverse events among the vaccinated”

Patrick says

Do you really think Trump tried to use "force" on 9/11?

Jan 6, not 9/11, but yes. I think he had a big angry crowd and sent them off to the capital to stir up some trouble while maintaining plausible deniability by not specifically directing them to kill anyone etc.. As the riot evolved, I DO honestly think that for a while, he thought the mob may change the outcome of the election, or achieve an overthrow of the government.... and I DO honestly think that for some time that day, he waited to see what would happen in hopes that he could be made Emperor. I believe that was what was going on in his mind as he watched the riot go on and ignored pleas to intervene and stop the violence. I truly and honestly believe this.

DeficitHawk says

I DO honestly think that for some time that day, he waited to see what would happen in hopes that he could be made Emperor. I believe that was what was going on in his mind as he watched the riot go on and ignored please to intervene and stop the violence. I truly and honestly believe this.

Oops, Jan 6. Pleas and not "please" back, lol.

Emperor? Your belief there is so far removed from the reality I live in that I hope you're kidding. You don't literally mean emperor, right?

A lot of people saw the impossible statistical anomalies and rightly protested the theft of their vote by the Democrat fraud machine. Some of them were led into the Capitol by FBI plants like Ray Epps, but even then, most of the people there were smiling and not at all aggressive. Look at the photos.

The only real violence was the murder of Ashli Babbitt by a Capitol police officer.

DeficitHawk says

I want avenues so that family wealth is not the determining factor for your income potential... But policies have gone way too far.. trying to push EVERYONE to go. And trying to say no one should have to pay for it, even not have to pay back their loans. It goes hand in hand with not respecting people who do useful trades that didnt go to college, a sort of elitism in the guise of promoting social mobility, trying to build a purely white collar economy.

I absolutely agree with you on all of that. I studied in Germany for two years and found they have a much more sensible system in which the majority do not actually go to universities. They stress trades much more than we do, and have formal apprenticeships, etc.

A show of violence would only hurt Trump’s case. I mean this is plain as day in hindsight but even then it was obvious. That’s why I think it was preposterous to think Trump really wanted his supporters to storm the Capitol.

Really, think about it. The Trump campaign had nothing to gain and everything to lose by any show of violence. Their last hope was to demonstrate mass support of Trump, to embolden the Senate that was in session at the time to vote in favor of a recount or revote where significant irregularities had been found. That’s exactly what they were doing and that’s all they were doing. They were shouting and chanting so that the Senate would wake up and listen to them.

Trump and the organizers of the event wanted the Senate to be impressed by the number of people who thought it was that serious. You can wave away their belief that the election was stolen as a delusion on their part but it would have been an even worse delusion to think they could take over the Capitol by brute force. It was not the plan, it was never the plan. But it is exactly what the Democrats would want people to think in order to shame and tarnish the “election deniers.” This is so obvious to me.

DeficitHawk says

2)The efficacy of the vaccine. It think it helps reduce death rate by a lot and infection rate by a little per double blind studies done, but its efficacy is lower on mutation variants and the mutation rate is fairly high, so the efficacy will go down with time or need constant updates like flu shots. Other people think the vaccine has virtually no benefit at all.

Back when Trump was pushing 'Operation Warp Speed,' I watched a news conference from the White House where Trump declared that there would be a vaccine available by January, 2021. One astute reporter asked Fauci if that was possible. Fauci specifically stated that "if EVERYTHING goes right, and it won't, but assuming it does, the best case scenario for a safe and effective vaccine will take a MINIMUM of 5 YEARS, but realistically, more like 10 to 15 years." Fauci went on to explain the various stages of scientific tests, conducted over long periods of time, which is required for observational studies. All of these successful test results are necessary in order to obtain FDA approval. ALL of these stages were bi-passed by Big Pharma. The world is a test lab for Big Pharma. These EXPERIMENTAL 'vaccines.' are making HUMAN BEINGS nothing more than Guinea Pigs.

Question for you: Why is it, that after almost 40 years of HIV/AIDS, and after Big Pharma and the U. S. Government has spent $HUNDREDS of BILLIONS in research and development, they have yet to come up with a safe and effective vaccine?

DeficitHawk says

I DO honestly think that for some time that day, he waited to see what would happen in hopes that he could be made Emperor. I believe that was what was going on in his mind as he watched the riot go on and ignored please to intervene and stop the violence. I truly and honestly believe this.

Trump requested troops in order to protect the White House during the BLM/ANTIFA riots in Lafayette Square. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Milley refused Trump's request.

How is it that you think that an unarmed group, most of whom were peaceful that day, could have 'taken over the government?' Do you think maybe, just maybe, the military would have stepped in and put down this UNARMED 'insurrection?' What possible chance could Trump have been made "Emperor?"

richwicks says

Either change the law or enforce the law.

Yup, or my preference is to change the law (increase legal immigration) AND enforce the law (stop illegal immigration)


Please talk to a recent high school graduate, or dropout, that wasn't able to go to college, and who has to actually compete against illegal immigrants for the same job.

I knew a guy that had to do that. He was paid under the table, and he was TERRIFIED of being caught, because being caught meant going to jail. For an illegal immigrant, it meant they had to relocate, and for the employer, it meant nothing.

That's the system our GOVERNMENT has setup.

RayAmerica says

Question for you: Why is it, that after almost 40 years of HIV/AIDS, and after Big Pharma and the U. S. Government has spent $HUNDREDS of BILLIONS in research and development, they have yet to come up with a safe and effective vaccine?

Oh, I thought this was well understood... HIV is a retrovirus which can evade normal immune function by imprinting itself into the host cell DNA. . And its surface proteins mutate rapidly. It is hard to develop a vaccine for this type of virus. Thats why HIV research has gone on so long but not found an effective vaccine.

COVID is not this type of virus. Its more like a vanilla coronavirus.

richwicks says

Please talk to a recent high school graduate, or dropout, that wasn't able to go to college, and who has to actually compete against illegal immigrants for the same job.

I dont know... we are at extremely low unemployment, with our main economic problems being inflation caused by lack of sufficient workforce, COVID disruptions, and increasing fraction of retired people. I think increasing workforce of working age legal immigrants would be overall good for our economy.

DeficitHawk says

COVID is not this type of virus. Its more like a vanilla coronavirus.

If you read the DoD documents, what has been mis-labled covid, is really a spike protein bio-weapon.

NuttBoxer says

DeficitHawk says

COVID is not this type of virus. Its more like a vanilla coronavirus.

If you read the DoD documents, what has been mis-labled covid, is really a spike protein bio-weapon.

link?

DeficitHawk says

I dont know... we are at extremely low unemployment, with our main economic problems being inflation caused by lack of sufficient workforce, COVID disruptions, and increasing fraction of retired people. I think increasing workforce of working age legal immigrants would be overall good for our economy.

My wife's Mexican. Her uncle told me how they had a government program in the 70's to bus migrants in for the growing season. One of the few times I heard something that makes sense coming from government.

My wife and in-laws are all strongly against illegals. It insults the effort they made to be here legally. When I was younger I worked at FedEx and had a co-worker who was originally from Mexicali. That guy told me about taking the citizenship test, and how proud he was to become an American. The only people I ever hear pushing for illegals are whites who don't know shit about it, or Central and South Americans, who seem to be born with a pan-handling sign in their hands.

When I was a kid, I tried picking blueberries with a friend for money. Friend was coincidentally Mexican/Puerto Rican. It's fucking hard work. Not something that lazy, benefit seeking people engage in. If you can come to this country and better your situation without looking for handouts, my hat to off to you, regardless of how you get in.

NuttBoxer says

My wife and in-laws are all strongly against illegals. It insults the effort they made to be here legally.

NuttBoxer says

It's fucking hard work. Not something that lazy, benefit seeking people engage in.

Yes, and Yes.

DeficitHawk says

link?

Don't have one(was a while back), but feel free to search, or remain skeptical. What I can tell you from personal experience is whatever it is that attacked me was not the flu, or any other virus. It was far more invasive in that after recovery it was still mounting some sort of attack. I know because I stopped taking zinc, and lost sense of smell and taste. Had to take zinc for two weeks after recovery before it stopped attacking my immune system. Six months later it returned in a slightly weaker form. But I was more concerned this time, as it almost seemed to be like something that had remained dormant in my system, rather than being eradicated the first time around. This time I hit it with Hydroxcholorquine and Ivermectin. Ivermectin is anti-bacterial, not anti-viral.

It is not natural, not viral, or at least not limited to virus form. So based on what I saw from DoD combined with personal experience, and the main culprit in the harm that is done by the shots, spike protein is the most likely explanation.

DeficitHawk says

ignored pleas to intervene and stop the violence

@DeficitHawk

DeficitHawk says

You are more inclined to distrust such institutions and disregard the results, and make extrapolations from personal experience.

It's not that I don't trust institutions. A vaccine is a longer process than what we got to confirm it's SAFE long term. You cannot fast forward time. It rolled out a little over two years ago with limited small trails.

Not a virus per se, but look at what we've put in our homes in the past. Asbestos, lead pipes, lead paint, etc. Government didn't make the vaccine, they just paid for it. They gave big pharma protection against litigation. This is a society one would want to live in? Then government tries to force this vaccine on us or loss of job results. How did we get in this place?

I currently have covid, day 3. I am unvaccinated. It's a minor flu bug. It sucks, but it's like most flu with varying symptoms. My wife and I both have it, she was vaccinated. It's not anecdotal at all. Confirmed Covid, the vaccine doesn't work. Her symptoms are worse than mine and she's substantially healthier.

Can we at least agree we were lied to about the vaccine not working? It doesn't. 4 other people we were with us on a trip, vaccinated, all got it. Our symptoms are all the same. 2 of them are urgent care nurses. They've had it twice AFTER vaccination and at least one booster. People lost their jobs over this and it simply doesn't work. And there's no recourse. It's honestly indefensible.

And again I'll go back to long term ramifications. Anecdotal, but it happened. My wife's cycle was messed up for months after the vax. No other changes in her health.

Patrick has posts in the vaccine thread he linked above. There are hockey stick increases in illness not common before the vaccine overall. It's obviously not 90% of people and there will always be reactions, but it's way too high.

And I'd agree I'm the anecdotal guy. But if people aren't paying attention we'd still be rolling lead based paint, insulating/tiling with asbestos, or the situation like Erin Brockovich discovered. There's no way you or anyone else, even unbiased scientist can prove this vaccine is safe long term. 5-10 years from now maybe there's a 30% uptick in cancer. Without a nuclear war, one would have to question the vaccine down the road or studies find it.

Bottom line it doesn't work and there's an uptick in illness that correlates all around the time vaccines rolled.

NuttBoxer says

Ivermectin is anti-bacterial, not anti-viral.

Sure about that? Even the government now admits Ivermectin has anti-Covid virus properties:

Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

HeadSet says

NuttBoxer says

Ivermectin is anti-bacterial, not anti-viral.

Sure about that? Even the government now admits Ivermectin has anti-Covid virus properties:

Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

It's anti microbial, anti viral and anti parasitic, prob also anti bacterial, but it's been used as anti viral and anti parasitic

Patrick says

DeficitHawk says

ignored pleas to intervene and stop the violence

DeficitHawk

Admire your passion to debate but you can't do that successfully until npcs agree on basic fundamental facts and truths. Your feelings and beliefs about Trump don't matter, the facts are indisputable, an they are out in the open, the Donald never incited violence, quite the opposite. Anybody spewing bullshit about violence or an insurrection in connection with Trump is either deeply lost in the npc propaganda ether, or deliberately obtuse, serving the leftoid marxist propaganda

As far as my covid status I've improved nicely over even just the last 4 hours. Sinus is dripping like a faucet, but the worst parts of my symptoms are dropping off and quickly it seems. Wife still has the chills, cough, runny nose and is aching. One sample, I know, but it was 6 of us that got it at the same time. I'm recovering the fastest and am the only unvaccinated person.

I'm not a scientist or data analyst, but this matters. 6 people got covid at the same time and location. 5 vaccinated, 1 not vaccinated. Vaccine doesn't work 100% in this scenario. Quickest one recovering is me, unvaccinated. You can ignore this anecdotal data, BUT it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I have nothing to gain from talking about this.

I'm just upset a vaccine was forced on minors and people just didn't need it due to age. There were continued lockdown and mask mandates for no reason. Many people lost jobs. We have labor shortages. Shortages of goods. Massive inflation for the first time in decades. High fuel prices. Lacking leadership. Entering a proxy war with a non-NATO country in Ukraine. Nothing has happened positive in two years. It was all bitching about Trump still from the Dems. No action. Roe V. Wade is the only thing that comes to mind and all that does if give states rights back to them. And that was SCOTUS.

@DeficitHawk Dispute anything in the above paragraphs (well besides the first).

WookieMan says

5 vaccinated, 1 not vaccinated

You vaxxed your kids?

I have a few friends who are Muslims and they will always vote Democrat in non-Muslim countries. I don't debate with them. Its futile. There are some things on the planet that are not debatable. I am indifferent to them.

HeadSet says

Even the government now admits Ivermectin has anti-Covid virus properties:

And that was from Feb 2021, more than a year and a half ago.

The truth is that the government "health" agencies are entirely corrupted by Pfizer and the like, who really don't care how many people they kill as long as they get their $100 billion.

The Democrats also saw the opportunity to destroy Trump's embarrassingly good economy, and the WEF saw the opportunity to bring forward its plans to take absolute control over the planet through "vaxx passports" and draconian suppression of peaceful dissent, such as suspending the bank accounts of Canadian truckers.

WookieMan says

As far as my covid status I've improved nicely over even just the last 4 hours.

Glad you are feeling better Wookie!

Honestly I am not very interested in Covid vaccines and surrounding conspiracy theories. This is not a topic that concerns me much, and I dont have much interest in it. Out of respect for Patrick, I personally deep dived and investigated the raw data for two articles he linked, but found only extremely misleading characterizations of data, which I debunked fact by fact here on this forum. This is not something I spend my time on... I did so only because I offered myself for debate here, and felt obligated to investigate. But when I investigate and find only nonsense, misrepresentation of data, sources who INTENTIONALLY misrepresent facts... I just don't know what to do with that sort of information but disregard it.

People will make their own choices about vaccines and health. I do not favor mandates as I have said above, but at the same time there are no stormtroopers forcing vaccinations, and no one has to take them. In most situations, there are opt out provisions without impacting school or employment. In the limited situations where there are not opt out provisions, Im sorry to say minority opinions will have to accept inconvenience and find a new job or whatever. Dont be such a crybaby.

Patrick says

and draconian suppression of peaceful dissent, such as suspending the bank accounts of Canadian truckers

There is no shortage of complaints on this forum about people blocking freeways and roads during BLM protests. And those complaints are legit, obstructing freeway traffic is NOT lawful protest, it is illegal. When Canadian truckers do the same thing, those complaints are legit too.

How can you not see your hypocrisy?

DeficitHawk says

I personally deep dived and investigated the raw data for two articles he linked, but found only extremely misleading characterizations of data, which I debunked fact by fact here on this forum.

Please link to this post.

Just copy and past the URL - this is a link to this URL and specific post: https://patrick.net/post/1377632/2022-11-10-can-anyone-find-some-democrats-willing?start=421#comment-1900088

You can get this by clicking the date and time on the post, as I just did. In this instance, it is "2022 Nov 22, 10:38pm"

Please show your complete refutation - I would be interested in reading it.

comments 365 and 378

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897745

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897780

Even Patrick acknowledge that the dataset in the first article did not support its conclusion.

DeficitHawk says

There is no shortage of complaints on this forum about people blocking freeways and roads during BLM protests. And those complaints are legit, obstructing freeway traffic is NOT lawful protest, it is illegal. When Canadian truckers do the same thing, those complaints are legit too.

How can you not see your hypocrisy?

Woah, dude, BLM was literally murdering people and burning down neighborhoods and were bailed out by prominent Democrats, much less had to worry about having their bank accounts frozen.

The Canadian truckers were 100% peaceful and were beaten by police, arrested, and and had their bank accounts frozen. A national "state of emergency" was declared in Canada over completely peaceful protest.

Can you not see your hypocrisy @DeficitHawk ?

Patrick says

Can you not see your hypocrisy DeficitHawk ?

There is hypocrisy on both sides. I think blocking freeways is NOT ok as a form of protest. I didnt like it when BLM did it in Oakland (I was stuck in such a traffic jam) and I would not have liked it if truckers did it either.

@DeficitHawk

Onvacation says

You vaxxed your kids?

Big fuck no to that. Trip for my wife's 40th with friends and colleagues to Mexico, no kids and no jab for them. Just found out that two more got it from the group. So I think 8 of us total.

Everyone is sick right now. And they're all going to travel for Thanksgiving. Put this way I think next week is going to be a light week for a lot of people. I knew I would get it at one point, but it's ripping through population in the states, apparently Mexico.

We said fuck it and just flew back. Half the damn plane sounded like they were dying. Hyperbolic but it was a cough fest I've never heard on a flight. We weren't at that stage yet.

Patrick says

DeficitHawk says

There is no shortage of complaints on this forum about people blocking freeways and roads during BLM protests. And those complaints are legit, obstructing freeway traffic is NOT lawful protest, it is illegal. When Canadian truckers do the same thing, those complaints are legit too.

How can you not see your hypocrisy?

Woah, dude, BLM was literally murdering people and burning down neighborhoods and were bailed out by prominent Democrats, much less had to worry about having their bank accounts frozen.

The Canadian truckers were 100% peaceful and were beaten by police, arrested, and and had their bank accounts frozen. A national "state of emergency" was declared in Canada over completely peaceful protest.

Can you not see your hypocrisy DeficitHawk ?

Not to mention that the stasi police stole all their spare diesel fuel so that they were facing being frozen to death. BLM "leaders" took the money and ran, while anyone in canada (I won't capitalize it until the government of that country deserves it) who donated to the truckers had his bank accounts frozen and was threatened with imprisonment. Way to go, "liberals."

Hey, while we are speaking of controversial topics... let me say my thoughts on a few legal cases recently.

There are three court cases that had big racial/political/social justice implications that I investigated facts in detail.

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-act-of-submitting-engenders-submission

if one seeks to control the prevailing mores of a society, what actions are allowed and which banned becomes a critical and dispositive matter:

burn a car dealership and a police station to the ground and it smiles indulgently. maybe you get probation. probably not. those ideals are OK.

loiter peacefully in a buffalo hat in the capitol rotunda, and they drop the world on your head. terrorist. treason. confess and repent and maybe, just maybe, we’ll let you out of prison in 5 years. these ideals are anathema.

they want to render the cost of opposition so high that any sane person would fear to pay it.

they also want to provide indulgences for those who act beastly in leviathan’s name.

carrot, stick.

and as long as they control the system, they control the incentives.

and as long as they control the incentives, they will try to use them to use your “do” to change your “be.”

but this is a thing we can take back from them.

and the defense against this dark art is actually rather fun.

the defense is petty rebellion. ...

the sanity you save may be your own.

you may find you develop quite a taste for it.

you may find you develop quite a flair for it.

you may find that you are having fun.

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1900095

This is funny. I like the image.

BUT, you are trying to downplay the hypocrisy on your side of the argument, and you are wrong for doing so.

Let me be clear.... I think BLM narrative "Cops are racist murderers and law enforcement is an inherently racist institution that should be abolished" people are crazy. Totally F-ing nuts. I also think anti vax conspiracy theorists are crazy. Totally F-ing nuts. These are two categories of tin foil hat people that I rank approximately equal to each other.

Im all for peoples right to have crazy conspiracy theories. Thats fine, they can do them, I dont have to pay attention. But if either of them goes and blocs the freeways in protest, now I have a real problem with them. Left or Right.

DeficitHawk says

comments 365 and 378

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897745

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897780

Even Patrick acknowledge that the dataset in the first article did not support its conclusion.

OK, we have different standards of proof.

I don't trust a government that lied to support a war in Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, and then prosecuted the people that exposed the Downing Street memos that PURPORTED to show they knew it was a lie, and supported the war regardless.

Find a journal and then, I need to research the reliability of that journal. The Lancet, a well respected journal, has done HORRIFIC harm to itself by lying about the dangers of hydroxychloroquine. They actually murdered people to falsely show it was a useless drug. That's your government. I've seen bogus studies before and there's nothing from the government that should be paid any attention whatsoever. These are the same assholes that claimed that Ivermectin was dangerous - there's NEVER been a death from it. I don't think there is an LD-50 for it.

Don't show me a government source. The government lies continually, constantly, unendingly. How can you not realize it at this point?