patrick.net

Hey, while we are speaking of controversial topics... let me say my thoughts on a few legal cases recently.

There are three court cases that had big racial/political/social justice implications that I investigated facts in detail.

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-act-of-submitting-engenders-submission

if one seeks to control the prevailing mores of a society, what actions are allowed and which banned becomes a critical and dispositive matter:

burn a car dealership and a police station to the ground and it smiles indulgently. maybe you get probation. probably not. those ideals are OK.

loiter peacefully in a buffalo hat in the capitol rotunda, and they drop the world on your head. terrorist. treason. confess and repent and maybe, just maybe, we’ll let you out of prison in 5 years. these ideals are anathema.

they want to render the cost of opposition so high that any sane person would fear to pay it.

they also want to provide indulgences for those who act beastly in leviathan’s name.

carrot, stick.

and as long as they control the system, they control the incentives.

and as long as they control the incentives, they will try to use them to use your “do” to change your “be.”

but this is a thing we can take back from them.

and the defense against this dark art is actually rather fun.

the defense is petty rebellion. ...

the sanity you save may be your own.

you may find you develop quite a taste for it.

you may find you develop quite a flair for it.

you may find that you are having fun.

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1900095

This is funny. I like the image.

BUT, you are trying to downplay the hypocrisy on your side of the argument, and you are wrong for doing so.

Let me be clear.... I think BLM narrative "Cops are racist murderers and law enforcement is an inherently racist institution that should be abolished" people are crazy. Totally F-ing nuts. I also think anti vax conspiracy theorists are crazy. Totally F-ing nuts. These are two categories of tin foil hat people that I rank approximately equal to each other.

Im all for peoples right to have crazy conspiracy theories. Thats fine, they can do them, I dont have to pay attention. But if either of them goes and blocs the freeways in protest, now I have a real problem with them. Left or Right.

DeficitHawk says

comments 365 and 378

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897745

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897780

Even Patrick acknowledge that the dataset in the first article did not support its conclusion.

OK, we have different standards of proof.

I don't trust a government that lied to support a war in Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, and then prosecuted the people that exposed the Downing Street memos that PURPORTED to show they knew it was a lie, and supported the war regardless.

Find a journal and then, I need to research the reliability of that journal. The Lancet, a well respected journal, has done HORRIFIC harm to itself by lying about the dangers of hydroxychloroquine. They actually murdered people to falsely show it was a useless drug. That's your government. I've seen bogus studies before and there's nothing from the government that should be paid any attention whatsoever. These are the same assholes that claimed that Ivermectin was dangerous - there's NEVER been a death from it. I don't think there is an LD-50 for it.

Don't show me a government source. The government lies continually, constantly, unendingly. How can you not realize it at this point?

richwicks says

OK, we have different standards of proof.

Yup, clearly we do.
richwicks says
(

I don't trust a government that lied to support a war in Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, and then prosecuted the people that exposed the Downing Street memos.

Actually, I agree with you on this point regarding Iraq 2 war.

But still, The article linked has a headline implying you are 8x more likely to get omicron if you get the vaccine and both patrick and I (and others) agree the data does not support this conclusion... the headline is incredibly misleading. And this has nothing to do with either US or UK governments (it is a study of israeli population for south african/omicron variant). Its just someone badly twisting information into a headline that is profoundly misleading... and yet it is referenced in this thread as something I should take seriously! Why would anyone proliferate this type of trash article!?!?!

DeficitHawk says

richwicks says

OK, we have different standards of proof.

Yup, clearly we do.
richwicks says
(

I don't trust a government that lied to support a war in Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, and then prosecuted the people that exposed the Downing Street memos.

Actually, I agree with you on this point regarding Iraq 2 war.

But still, The article linked has a headline implying you are 8x more likely to get omicron

You're listening to a source that you and I both agree blatantly lies to the public.

It's not a source. They produce propaganda.

They'll kill 800,000 Iraqis over a lie, why do you think they'll tell you the truth if they kill their own population?

And that number, 800,000 has been derived over 20 years - the government never reported that. It was painstakingly built up based on population statistics of Iraq. It took a more than a decade to get that number. It's still an estimate.

Our governments lie to us all the time. Why is it you put any faith in them at all? Remember when the US government was saying that Trump was about to start WWIII? Remember when they claimed that he was unfit for office because of senility or insanity? Remember when they claimed his family was corrupt? Biden is all of those - why do you suspect the government EVER tells you the truth?

They don't.

How is it possible that at this point, you don't see this?

It is honestly perplexing to me. If it's a government source, they will lie rather than embarrass themselves. You know that.

Uh, richwicks he agreed with you on that point on Iraq.

He is simply stating that the Article's headline is full on propaganda for saying that you are 8X more likely to get Omicron if you had the Vaxx when the underlying stats prove otherwise.

It's not just the government that is untruthful.

Misc says

Uh, richwicks he agreed with you on that point on Iraq.

He is simply stating that the Article's headline is full on propaganda for saying that you are 8X more likely to get Omicron if you had the Vaxx when the underlying stats prove otherwise.

It's not just the government that is untruthful.

The link I followed pointed to this:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1049160/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-3-2022.pdf

He was citing a government source. A source he KNOWS is unreliable and lies. I brought up the Downing Street memo because that's from a UK government website.

I'm not certain which article headline you are talking about, what I'm trying to get him to understand, is the government lies. It lies a lot. The government NEVER admits error, at least, it takes years, even decades, before it does. He must be aware of this at this point.

If the vaccines show themselves to be ineffective and dangerous (and I believe they are), it will take at least 1/2 a decade before the government starts claiming "it was a mistake". It was not a mistake, these mother fuckers lied to us. To what ends? I don't know. I'll find out in time. If this was a culling event, we have to fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Kids are blameless, but we cannot allow these genocidal and/or insane gene line to proliferate in our future planet.

I'm not fucking kidding, this shit has to end. We allow sociopaths to run this world because the vast majority of people don't see them as sociopaths, and they think even if they are, at least they are competent. They are not competent. These are stupid, fucking, criminal assholes who exist only because of government corruption and criminality - they play by entirely different rules.

IF they have attempted to cull the population, they have to be wiped out, at the genetic level.

Patrick says

https://www.technocracy.news/get-vaxxed-you-might-be-8-times-more-likely-than-non-vaxxed-to-catch-south-african-variant/

This is the article with the misleading title. It is not based on US or UK data.

DeficitHawk says

which I debunked

Deboonked you deboonked it.

DeficitHawk says

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

The underlying cause of all three of these cases is THE POLICE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THEIR JOBS!

Floyd (violent career criminal who died of an OD) shouldn't have been on the street committing more crimes.
Rittenhouse should not have felt compelled to protect businesses (police's job).
Arbery was really stupid to try to take a shotgun from someone and should not have been trespassing.

The commonality between these three cases is politicians not letting the police do their jobs. It's like they want to incite race wars.

DeficitHawk says

I also think anti vax conspiracy theorists are crazy.

So you think the vax is totally safe and effective in spite of all the evidence that it is unsafe and ineffective? And you think that people that don't want to take this experimental biologic agent should lose their job?

Did I get that right?

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says

I also think anti vax conspiracy theorists are crazy.

So you think the vax is totally safe and effective in spite of all the evidence that it is unsafe and ineffective? And you think that people that don't want to take this experimental biologic agent should lose their job?

Did I get that right?

i didn’t get the vax and no problems either. those big pharma goons scared shit out of the left with virus propaganda. they are all vaccinating. in my area vax rate is close to 10% and we don’t have any of the issues left said we would.

lefts covid shit was their wmd lie, they just refuse to acknowledge it because hurt feelings for being wrong. i remember when right would not ket go if wmd in iraq the same way.

richwicks says

fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Genocide much? and I thought Patrick was extreme for wanting to hang people.

I think we are at the end of the road in this thread searching for common ground on Covid and vaccine efficacy. Ive linked some papers I thought used solid methodology (double blind studies). Ive seen responses that studies are not to be trusted, but have not seen a factual/analytical explanation of why I should not believe those studies. Closest to this was mell, with his assumption that only deaths or ER treatments should be trusted, which reduces the statistical power of the studies.... but I dont agree with mell... I think in a double blind control study where the populations are monitored for infection, infection rates and illness are valid datapoints. But in the analysis of data from non-controlled studies...(public health monitoring, etc) then I DO agree with mell that deaths are the more reliable metric rather than case rates, because infection detection and reporting is widely variable by subpopulations, but deaths are likely detected and reported. I've reviewed some articles and papers others have posted, and been pretty transparent in my analysis of why I thought they were flawed or misleading. Take it for what you will. I am done with this topic.

Want to talk about anything else?

Onvacation says

The underlying cause of all three of these cases is THE POLICE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THEIR JOBS!

There may be some truth to this. The sentiment that police are the bad guys is definitely impacting law enforcement, and we see it in decisions around prosecution as well as policing, and it may impact the rate of repeat offenders being on streets, and violent riots going on until they escalate and someone gets killed.

In the Floyd case, I'd say the police WERE doing their job in arresting someone with probable cause of a crime. Trouble is they also did the job of judge jury and executioner! That's not allowed, and it shouldn't be. I watched the video... I think the knee on neck for 9 minutes, well past the point where he stopped moving and stopped breathing MAY have had something to do with the death.

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

Patrick says

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

Correct.

DeficitHawk says

I think the knee on neck for 9 minutes, well past the point where he stopped moving and stopped breathing MAY have had something to do with the death.

May? Just like that motorcyclist in Florida involved in a horrific crash MAY have died of Covid instead of trauma.

DeficitHawk says

richwicks says

fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Genocide much? and I thought Patrick was extreme for wanting to hang people.

You've misquoted me by PURPOSELY taking me out of context. What I said was:

richwicks says

If the vaccines show themselves to be ineffective and dangerous (and I believe they are), it will take at least 1/2 a decade before the government starts claiming "it was a mistake". It was not a mistake, these mother fuckers lied to us. To what ends? I don't know. I'll find out in time. If this was a culling event, we have to fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Use of this sort of dishonesty and deception means it's not worthwhile to communicate with you. You don't listen, rather, you lie. You construct strawmans, and attack that.

IF this turns out to be a culling event, and we don't know at this point, you'll likely be dead because it's almost certain you've taken the injection. We don't know the long term effects of the vaccine but people like you are bound to find out.

How many times does the government and media have to lie to you, before you realize they are not honest? It's people like you that just spend 5 minutes listening to the television and screams at everybody else to shut up and "listen to the experts" that are one of the largest problems with this country. Mindless repetition is why we ended up in the Iraq War - "weapons of mass destruction" was the slogan then. For Libya it was "prevent a humanitarian crisis" and for Syria it was "Assad is gassing his own people" and for this it's "safe and effective".

You know the marketing slogans for each. Why don't you recognize it was a marketing slogan? How FUCKING obvious does propaganda have to be before you realize it's propaganda, and why do you resist knowing you were tricked? For all I know, in 10 years, 90% of the people who were "vaccinated" will be dead. You don't know either.

And PS: If this was a culling event, it was a genocide, are you such a fucking obedient cattle that you want nothing done about it? If this was a culling event, they may have just killed 5 billion people and you're just the walking dead.

Patrick says

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

Nope, immediate cause of death is listed as neck restraint, manner is homicide.. Drug use and heart condition is listed as contributing condition. Medical examiner testified the same at trial too, neck restraint caused death, not overdose.

DeficitHawk says

Patrick says

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

Nope, immediate cause of death is listed as neck restraint, manner is homicide.. Drug use and heart condition is listed as contributing condition. Medical examiner testified the same at trial too, neck restraint caused death, not overdose.

Look, the ENTIRE bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest is online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkEGGLu_fNU

If you want, you can skip to 7 minutes in, watch Floyd resist arrest, refuse to enter the car, and then die.

A year before, George Floyd was arrested in similar circumstances, downed ALL the drugs he had on him, and woke up in a hospital due to a drug over-dose. He ODed.

Did the media EVER tell you the truth of what happened? No, they didn't. They lied then, and they lie all the time.

HeadSet says

Sure about that?

HeadSet says

Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent

You answered for me.

richwicks says

Look, the ENTIRE bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest is online:

Ive seen the whole duration body cam footage, including the parts where he wouldn't get in the car and kept jumping out and resisting arrest. I review these types of footage routinely when incidents happen in my hometown too.

Largely speaking I give the police a lot of latitude to react if they feel threatened in the course of their duties, and I've never seen a video in my hometown where I thought the police acted wrongly, even when they had to shoot and kill a mentally ill person which caused a major controversy.

But I still think the situation in the Floyd case had evolved past the point of threat. He was on the ground unconscious, and no longer a threat. Enough time had passed between him stopping resisting that the officer should have released the restraint. The officer was aware that Floyd wasnt breathing because bystanders/observers were telling him. so, it was way past the point of "No more threat" and way past the point of knowing the restraint was life threatening. There is no cause for this. Im pro-cop and pro law enforcement. But still, there was no cause for this.

DeficitHawk says

Nope, immediate cause of death is listed as neck restraint, manner is homicide.

Nope, immediate cause of death is listed as "cardioplumonary arrest".

DeficitHawk says

But I still think the situation in the Floyd case had evolved past the point of threat. He was on the ground unconscious, and no longer a threat.

Chauvin was trained by the IDF, this is what they do to Palestinians constantly. What you are observing is what Chauvin was taught to do.

The point I'm making is Chauvin didn't kill Floyd, Floyd died of a drug overdose. You can very well argue that the POLICE are taught to treat people overly brutally - I'd agree with that - but Chauvin didn't kill Floyd and that's what Chauvin has gone to prison for. The family also got, I think a 12 million dollar payout for Floyd dying of a drug over-dose.

We don't have a justice system.

https://ehlinelaw.com/blog/fact-check-floyd-fentanyl

Fact Check: Did George Floyd Have Fatal Levels Of Fentanyl And Crystal Meth In His System? Yes. True. ...

The decedent was known to be positive for 2019-nCoV RNA on 4/3/2020.

While it looks like Chauvin did use excessive force:

1. Floyd likely would not have died had he not OD'd on fentanyl.
2. To be self-consistent, Democrats must classify his death as a "covid" death like all the others who died with a positive test.

cisTits says

You can't 'debate' ppl brainwashed with bullshit,

it's true

Many have run screaming from this site because they couldn't handle the cognitive dissonance of their propagandized world view and the truth.

Patrick says

While it looks like Chauvin did use excessive force:

1. Floyd likely would not have died had he not OD'd on fentanyl.
2. To be self-consistent, Democrats must classify his death as a "covid" death like all the others who died with a positive test.

The same exact thing - "I can't breathe" happened with different officers and Floyd in 2019. Except in 2019, the cops dumped him off at the ER and the DA didn't prosecute so he just walked out.

A lifetime of coke, steroid abuse, and now opiates did a job on his cardiovascular system. No 40-something bouncer with a lifetime of drug abuse has that kind of body without chemical assistance.

The audience distracting Chauvin by yelling at him also played a role and they should have been charged with obstructing an officer or sued for contributing to Floyd's death

richwicks says

Chauvin was trained by the IDF, this is what they do to Palestinians constantly. What you are observing is what Chauvin was taught to do.

The Poor Victim Permarefugee Palestinians abducted a Druze kid from a car accident last night at a hospital. Took him off life support and abducted him, in the name of social justice for the oppressed. Or for $$$ to buy more Brooklyn and Stockholm apartments to lease.

I don't think the IDF/Mossad will be able to hold the Druze back. The Paleban are about to see what happens when they fuck with the clannish mountain people, AGAIN because it didn't work out the other 50 times they got into it with the Druze. Even the Glorious Savior Alawite House of Assad never gets it, no matter how many beatings they get because they can't leave well enough alone and FAFO.

Patrick says

While it looks like Chauvin did use excessive force:

1. Floyd likely would not have died had he not OD's on fentanyl.
2. To be self-consistent, Democrats must classify his death as a "covid" death like all the others who died with a positive test.

It is possible 1 is true, it is listed as a contributing factor but not primary. I will dismiss 2. as snark.

Lets just type out the Medical examiners determinations in full glory so we dont argue which words are more important.
Cause of death; Immediate: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression
Other contributing conditions: Arteriosclerotic and hyptertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use
Manner: Homicide

The medical examiner puts "neck compression" in the immediate cause of death section. But he did not put drug overdose. Many people on this site are somehow concluding drug overdose was the cause of death.. (that was patricks original claim before i went and dug up the facts and posted the death certificate). But the death certificate does NOT say drug overdose is the cause of death.

Is there some ambiguity in the meaning that the medical examiner meant to convey by putting "neck compression" into the cause of death, but not drug use? well maybe someone should ask him to clarify the meaning..... Oh wait, they did.. Under oath during the trial. What did he say?
_______________
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/medical-examiner-who-ruled-george-floyd-s-death-homicide-blames-n1263670

"My opinion remains unchanged," Baker said as his testimony concluded. "It's what I put on the death certificate last June. That's cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."

"That was my top line then," he added. "It would stay my top line now."

Blackwell asked him whether he considered the other contributing conditions as direct causes of Floyd's death, and Baker said, "They are not direct causes of Mr. Floyd's death, that's true. They are contributing causes."
___________________

People can imagine different facts but it doesnt make them true. This is what the medical examiner actually wrote on the death certificate and what he actually said in testimony. There is no ambiguity what he meant.

DeficitHawk says

People can imagine different facts but it doesnt make them true. This is what the medical examiner actually wrote on the death certificate and what he actually said in testimony. There is no ambiguity what he meant.

It's also the case that the Free Morphine level in Chauvin Floyd (edit: my goof) was barely below the level at which the Examiner was legally compelled to put Overdose as the cause of Death.

Instead, he was pressured to allow space for it to be a potential choking event, when had it not been politicized, the Examiner would have put "Opiate abuse and 80% pre-existing arterial blockage leading to hypertension crisis"

AmericanKulak says

richwicks says

Chauvin was trained by the IDF, this is what they do to Palestinians constantly. What you are observing is what Chauvin was taught to do.

The Poor Victim Permarefugee Palestinians abducted a Druze kid from a car accident last night at a hospital. Took him off life support and abducted him, in the name of social justice for the oppressed.

Look, you're a fool if you take sides.

Israel will eventually take over the entire West Bank, and once they have they will take over Gaza, and then they will continue to expand, probably into Syria and the Suez.

Who cares? Morality nothing to do with it, and it's just dumb to argue about people and I'm sick of trying to explain the situation without somebody pretending I'm some weeping liberal about the subject. You don't know anything about the history other than what our "reliable news" has told you about it. Talking about this subject with 99% of the population is like trying to talk about vaccines and masking to a died in the wool liberal.

Yep, possession is 90% of the law.

Same reason Indians aren't getting North America back or why Byzantium will probably never be Greek again.

I'm tired of hearing about Levantine Arabs with 2-3 full citizenships/residencies and property in all 3 countries being call "Refugees", or the 8th Fattest People in the world stuffing their mouths with Soda, Pizza, Knafeh, and Figs being called "Starving Refugees" while 100s of Fat Euro Bureaucrats living in Geneva and NY make 6 figure salaries to handle their "Crisis" at the UN as they all have gangbangs with each other and turn a blind eye to corruption while hiring all their academic-corporate-ex EU bureaucrat friends as "Consultants" for 6 figs. As they get more money and UN staff than all the world's refugees combined.

And after all, if Jericho, Bethlehem, and Judea aren't under Jewish, WTF bother with Israel at all. As soon as the world is distracted, they should Ethnically Cleanse.

None of the Euro Wise types or the Human Rights People gave two shits when Kosovar Serbs were purged from cities 90% Serbian by KLA Terrorists. In fact Croatia, Italy, Germany, Turkey, the Ba'athists, and Austria were all happy that their former National Socialist SS Handschar Auxillaries were killing Serbs.

Just like EU one-Europe one-king one-Church HRE types nagged Britain for making IRA thugs stand in their underpants in the corner, but turned up their nose at any investigation of the thousands of disappeared CATHOLICS that ended up in bogs, often without a lick of evidence they were colluding with anybody. Simply victims of an angry neighbor making up lies.

Patrick says

AmericanKulak says

It's also the case that the Free Morphine level in Chauvin was barely below the level at which the Examiner was legally compelled to put Overdose as the cause of Death.

You must mean Floyd there, not Chauvin.

Fixing.

DeficitHawk says

The medical examiner puts "neck compression" in the immediate cause of death section. But he did not put drug overdose.

Since you're being technical, you have to admit the death certificate you posted says "cardioplumonary arrest" first.

DeficitHawk says

It is possible 1 is true, it is listed as a contributing factor but not primary.

It's not just "possible". If it were about anyone else, it would be considered pretty damn certain. But in this case, there is a big motive to ignore the obvious lest reality force a whole cascade of uncomfortable thoughts.

DeficitHawk says

I will dismiss 2. as snark.

It's snark, but it's also truth and should not be dismissed.

The number of Wuhan Virus deaths was artificially pumped up by fraudulently classifying all deaths with a positive test as from the virus in order to instill fear to sell more vaxxing for the sake of Pfizer profits.

https://patrick.net/post/1347601/2022-09-28-deaths-from-wuhan-virus-continue-to-be

AmericanKulak says

I'm tired of hearing about Levantine Arabs with 2-3 full citizenships/residencies and property in all 3 countries being call "Refugees", or the 8th Fattest People in the world stuffing their mouths with Soda, Pizza, Knafeh, and Figs being called "Starving Refugees" while 100s of Fat Euro Bureaucrats living in Geneva and NY make 6 figure salaries to handle their "Crisis" at the UN

Are your serious?

Zelenskyy is a tripple citizen. Israel gets $2 billion dollars a year in US "aid".

Government is corrupt, DUH. It's not just "one side". UN workers were raping kids in exchange for food years ago. It's a fucking joke. That's where UNICEF really goes to, exploitation.

AmericanKulak says

None of the Euro Wise types or the Human Rights People gave two shits when Kosovar Serbs were purged from cities 90% Serbian by KLA Terrorists. In fact Croatia, Italy, Germany, Turkey, the Ba'athists, and Austria were all happy that their former National Socialist SS Handschar Auxillaries were killing Serbs.

Just like EU one-Europe one-king one-Church HRE types nagged Britain for making IRA thugs stand in their underpants in the corner, but turned up their nose at any investigation of the thousands of disappeared CATHOLICS that ended up in bogs, often without a lick of evidence they were colluding with anybody. Simply victims of an angry neighbor making up lies.

Note that the military intervention in Serbia was very controversial in Germany, in fact most of the left, incl. greens were initially against it, siding with the majority of the population. But then "suddenly/miraculously" a (manufactured) "shift in thinking" happened favoring the "realpolitik" greenies and warmongers from other parties, similar to the uniparty here, and somehow vox populi didn't matter anymore. German government has been coopted for a very long time, similar to others.