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Or were you just talking companies in general?
Started with 10k excess money roughly 17 years ago, which has now grown to over 1MM excess money, with the caveat that not all of it were gains, whenever there was a prolonged rout in the market and I maxed out margins I would add a few k here and there from my checkings and savings, so after adjusting for those infusions the yearly ROI roughly falls between 20%-30%. It is not that hard to make a multi-bagger if you hit a really good biotech (my main sector) pick where you have (some text omitted to shorten quote...) etire (esp. with wife and 3 kids), house is roughly 35% paid off, but I'm aiming for semi-retirement, aka freedom from the man, at least within the next 1-3 years, and keep continuing tech by contract only while focusing on investing. As some mentioned, with a leverage of 1:2 max. and starting with a humble amount you don't become financially independent that quickly. We also have some family properties and I am not interested in doing any landlording or taking over any mortgages ;)
property manager…cough…cough
mell says
1337irr says
property manager…cough…cough
Definitely the way to go, would need on the combined patnet expertise to pick a good one though, being overseas complicates the matter
Mell, are you back in DE?
You don't need debt for a good credit score, you need debt for slavery.
WookieMan says
Which debt literally doesn't matter at all.
How does debt doesn't matter at all?
gabbar says
WookieMan says
Which debt literally doesn't matter at all.
How does debt doesn't matter at all?
The idea is that a default hurts the lenders more than the borrowers, so the lenders accept devalued currency or a debt swap / mutual debt forgiveness. Most nations run large deficits, and not being able to redeem the loans they are owed would make their situations far worse. I don't think this will hold true forever, but until now it mostly has.
mell says
gabbar says
WookieMan says
Which debt literally doesn't matter at all.
How does debt doesn't matter at all?
The idea is that a default hurts the lenders more than the borrowers, so the lenders accept devalued currency or a debt swap / mutual debt forgiveness. Most nations run large deficits, and not being able to redeem the loans they are owed would make their situations far worse. I don't think this will hold true forever, but until now it mostly has.
Would this apply to individual american citizens? No, right?
So, owning a place with a lot of land around it to keep out the assholes is probably the best scenario
"In 1950 the median American home price was 7,354 and median household income was 2,970 which is 40%. Today the median household income is 70,000 and median home price is 440,000. That's 16%. What makes this even more alarming is most households that are $70,000 are with two earners. 34% of US households are single earning. In 1950 only 12% where two income."
(edited for typos)
-redditor
WookieMan says
Which debt literally doesn't matter at all.
How does debt doesn't matter at all?
2. Student debt. Lots of kids out there live off their student loans in college. There’s lots of people out there with worthless degrees and 100+K of debt that cannot ever be discharged.
But then the market takes a dip and the bank calls your loan and then you’re forced to sell into a down market
Sears. It's okay for big companies to fail financially but you can't as a person? You are a business and it's the same thing.
Would still pay for the house of course.... which they also can't touch.
NuttBoxer says
"In 1950 the median American home price was 7,354 and median household income was 2,970 which is 40%. Today the median household income is 70,000 and median home price is 440,000. That's 16%. What makes this even more alarming is most households that are $70,000 are with two earners. 34% of US households are single earning. In 1950 only 12% where two income."
(edited for typos)
-redditor
What was the average square footage of a house in 1950? How many bathrooms did it have? What was the r-value of the insulation?
Let me answer those for you. 1000, 1, 0
You could build a 1950 level home today for 100K. Problem is your wife will look at it and tell you to keep renting the condo. So nobody builds houses like that anymore.
What was the average square footage of a house in 1950? How many bathrooms did it have? What was the r-value of the insulation?
Let me answer those for you. 1000, 1, 0
You could build a 1950 level home today for 100K. Problem is your wife will look at it and tell you to keep renting the condo. So nobody builds houses like that anymore.
NuttBoxer says
"In 1950 the median American home price was 7,354 and median household income was 2,970 which is 40%. Today the median household income is 70,000 and median home price is 440,000. That's 16%. What makes this even more alarming is most households that are $70,000 are with two earners. 34% of US households are single earning. In 1950 only 12% where two income."
(edited for typos)
-redditor
What was the average square footage of a house in 1950? How many bathrooms did it have? What was the r-value of the insulation?
Let me answer those for you. 1000, 1, 0
You could build a 1950 level home today for 100K. Problem is your wife will look at it and tell you to keep renting the condo. So nobody builds houses like that anymore.
Only complaint was the single bathroom
it's pretty fucking depressing to admit that your wealth is being stolen from in front of your eyes, and the system you've been told leads to prosperity, actually leads to slavery.
Few investors rode the pandemic-era housing boom as high as Jay Gajavelli. Fewer still have fallen as far.
Before Gajavelli found his real-estate career, the 61-year-old immigrant from India was just another information-technology worker, putting in 60-hour weeks for a middling job in Dallas. Last year, Gajavelli’s company owned more than $500 million worth of Sunbelt apartment buildings with more than 7,000 units, and was one of Houston’s biggest landlords.
Over the past four years, Gajavelli built his real-estate empire using funds from dozens of small investors who wanted a chance to earn a landlord’s riches without any of the work. He pitched double-your-money returns in ebullient, can-do talks at investor conferences and on YouTube videos.
He described buying buildings with plans to upgrade units, raise rents and sell for a profit after as little as three years. The idea that everybody needs a place to live was the bedrock of Gajavelli’s pitch. “I never worry about [the] economy now,” Gajavelli told investors in a webinar presentation last year for his company, Applesway Investment Group. “Even if [the] economy goes down, still I make money.”
Gajavelli’s investors were, in fact, highly vulnerable to interest-rate increases over the past year that crushed the business model that they and thousands of others in similar deals across the U.S. had hoped would make them wealthy. For them and a host of small investors —who were expecting a share of rents and a piece of the profit in an eventual sale—it is looking like a looming investment-property disaster.
In April, Gajavelli’s company lost more than 3,000 apartments at four rental complexes taken in foreclosure, one of the biggest commercial real estate blowups since the financial crisis. Investors lost millions. Gajavelli didn’t respond to requests for comment.
His company had taken out commercial real-estate loans that carried floating interest rates and were adjusted each month. Those types of loans in 2021 offered initial rates as low as 3.5%. Everything changed when the Federal Reserve began raising rates last year, driving up monthly loan payments. Inflation contributed to higher expenses, and Applesway couldn’t raise rents fast enough to keep pace. After bills went unpaid, company properties went into foreclosure.
Al_Sharpton_for_President says
Noooooooooooo!
@pudil,
There’s two problems with debt.
1. You get overextended. Sure it’s all great on paper when you’re using 5% down loans to build your real estate empire. But then the market takes a dip and the bank calls your loan and then you’re forced to sell into a down market.
That looks like bullshit. Weren't prices still going up in 2022?
The US government doesn't have to pay off its $31 trillion debt. The government debt can't be compared to something like a household's finances. When governments for one reason or another run up large debts, it is, as far as I can tell, unusual to pay those debts off. - Paul Krugman, May 23, 2023
Inflation contributed to higher expenses, and Applesway couldn’t raise rents fast enough to keep pace.
I've known people that have committed suicide over debt.
I have never seen or known anyone who got their loan called due.
“I never worry about [the] economy now,” Gajavelli told investors in a webinar presentation last year for his company, Applesway Investment Group. “Even if [the] economy goes down, still I make money.”
Banks are in the business of lending, not foreclosing, or calling the loans due and taking losses. As long as people keep making payments, banks will let them be and not calling anything due.
If it wasn't taken from the ground, it wasn't earned.
Eman says
Banks are in the business of lending, not foreclosing, or calling the loans due and taking losses. As long as people keep making payments, banks will let them be and not calling anything due.
What do regulators say about that? Banks don't ever have to mark their assets to market?
(I have no idea).
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net
Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.
Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.