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Eman says
People whine and bitch about Prop 13 and talk about affordable housing while they don’t know why builders couldn’t build affordable housing in CA. Then they claim builders are being greedy while they keep voting for the same clueless politicians, who are good at shifting the blames to others while not providing any solutions?
You are mixing so many unrelated topics into Prop 13 to confuse. Not sure if that is intentional to get fat tax subsidies at the expense of the rest.
Look at this interactive map: https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/
Would you believe that this $9m mansion in ritzy Presidio Heights pays the same tax as a $300k starter home in Richmond?
Does Atherton needs tax subsidy of average $35k/year where ultra rich live!
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says
patrick they should not have income tax and property tax at all.
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden The way to prosperity for everyone is:
1. no income tax at all
2. no sales tax at all
3. no tax on BUILDINGS
4. the sole tax to be on land values
This is Georgism. Hong Kong partially implemented this and it works very well.
Blue says
Would you believe that this $9m mansion in ritzy Presidio Heights pays the same tax as a $300k starter home in Richmond?
I guess that is why the sales tax is 7.25% in California (compared to 4% for Georgia) and the income tax would be very high for the owner of this mansion if they make a lot of money as a California full time resident.
The California sales tax and the income tax compensate for the low property tax ?
.
4. the sole tax to be on land values
This is Georgism. Hong Kong partially implemented this and it works very well.
Let’s offer some solutions here. Let’s say repeal Prop 13 now. Shouldn’t everything be reset to 1978 including sales tax, state income tax rate, no more rent control, reduce the city permit fees for new construction, etc… to 1978 prices? Wouldn’t this be a fair proposal?
Eman says
Let’s offer some solutions here. Let’s say repeal Prop 13 now. Shouldn’t everything be reset to 1978 including sales tax, state income tax rate, no more rent control, reduce the city permit fees for new construction, etc… to 1978 prices? Wouldn’t this be a fair proposal?
Turning a regressive tax regime into a fair one:
https://www.taxfairnessproject.org/reform
FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says
i know many old people in ca, if prop 13 gone they’d be on the street.
That was the excuse used to transfer cash from workers to rich landowners.
It would be very simple to add a means test to Prop 13, or just let the elderly defer the taxes until they die and the house is sold.
But they didn't do that.
Patrick says
4. the sole tax to be on land values
This is Georgism. Hong Kong partially implemented this and it works very well.
During feudalism in Europe, those who were rich and had control over the poor and working class were the landowners.
So this seems like a good idea as far as stopping the tyranny of landowners.
.
You’re kidding right Patrick? Do you know how expensive is HongKong real estate market?
Eman says
You’re kidding right Patrick? Do you know how expensive is HongKong real estate market?
Eman Not kidding. Hong Kong real estate is so expensive because Hong Kong is so prosperous.
Because of the money from the land value tax in Hong Kong, they have a low income tax and sales tax there. They have a maximum income tax of 17%. Here in the US it's 37% max federal, plus close to 10% for California.
And there is 0% sales tax on most goods and services in Hong Kong.
All thanks to their land value tax!
As of now, we all recognize the affordability housing crises for the next generation so we’re putting our brains together and figuring out how to have them afford housing here. No complaints in our family. We just try to solve problems. Complaints don’t get us anywhere in this household, or country. Did I say we love this country? 🥰
Aaaand they are CCP bitches now.
Eman says
You’re kidding right Patrick? Do you know how expensive is HongKong real estate market?
Eman Not kidding. Hong Kong real estate is so expensive because Hong Kong is so prosperous.
Because of the money from the land value tax in Hong Kong, they have a low income tax and sales tax there. They have a maximum income tax of 17%. Here in the US it's 37% max federal, plus close to 10% for California.
And there is 0% sales tax on most goods and services in Hong Kong.
All thanks to their land value tax!
if land tax is up, farmers go out of business.
The only way a farmer isn't making a shit load of money is if they've leveraged the land to buy a lifestyle. My kids are friends with two prominent farmers here in IL. They aren't remotely poor or struggling. Property taxes could triple and they'll still be rich. Farmers cry poor a lot. Most are millionaires.
if land tax is up, farmers go out of business
“In July, the sales pace of new homes climbed 4.4% compared to June, reaching a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 714,000. On a year-over-year basis, new home sales were up 31.5%.“ - Impressive.
So Georgism is like Prop13 on steroids?
Under Georgism, your land value tax adjusts with the value of the land.
This is very different than Prop 13, which is an attempt to never have any significant property tax increase.
Eman says
“In July, the sales pace of new homes climbed 4.4% compared to June, reaching a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 714,000. On a year-over-year basis, new home sales were up 31.5%.“ - Impressive.
Median house price peaked at $480,000 and has dropped to $416,000 by end of April 2023, so it has dropped about 14%.
It likely has dropped present day below $416,000.
This article says end of July 2023 the price was $407,000 : https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/home-prices-spike-to-over-400-000-after-5-months-of-declines/ar-AA1g2ngf
.
.
The fact the sales rebounded after 5 months of slump suggests the market is likely close to an equilibrium.
I see equilibrium at the current median price for the USA when the rate drops from 7% and steadies between 5 and 5.5%.
Or when/if prices drop to...?
I think the Fed wants to see housing price grow at a much lower rate than income.
The Fed doesn’t get to decide. If they hike rates where housing is so expensive to finance who are they hurting? Such a one dimensional thinking.
ad,
It doesn’t impact me. I’m always a buyer/seller for the right price. They’re hurting the consumers more than anything.
The huge rent/buy ratio disparity in our market makes it hard for people to buy so they rent. This is why we’ve been getting record rents in our market. It’s just much cheaper to rent than to buy. How will the Fed bring it to disparity or 4% annual appreciation target?
In theory, it’s easy. Reality is so different. I’ve had this discussion with my Federal Reserve buddy frequently. Even he doesn’t have an answer for it. Hope is the magic word for them
Under Georgism, your land value tax adjusts with the value of the land.
This is very different than Prop 13, which is an attempt to never have any significant property tax increase.
The huge rent/buy ratio disparity in our market makes it hard for people to buy so they rent. This is why we’ve been getting record rents in our market. It’s just much cheaper to rent than to buy. How will the Fed bring it to disparity or 4% annual appreciation target?
So basically you go from a legally codified and strictly limited tax increases back to basically bending down, grabbing your ankles and letting the newsoms of this world jack up your property taxes as high as they want to and need to finance their frivolous spending? How is it better? Sounds like the system Californians has rebelled against in the first place.
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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pimco-kiesel-called-housing-top-160339396.html?source=patrick.net
Bond manager Mark Kiesel sold his California home in 2006, when he presciently predicted the housing bubble would pop. He bought again in 2012, after U.S. prices fell more than 30% and found a floor.
Now, after a record surge in prices, Kiesel says the time to sell is once again at hand.