Russian Black Sea Fleet is practically neutered.

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Russian Black Sea Fleet is practically neutered.

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2022 May 9, 11:06am 30,519 views 259 comments

by Eric Holder ➕follow (5) 💰tip ignore

After the dramatic sinking of the missile-cruiser Moskva by a Ukrainian missile battery on April 14, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is down to just three major surface combatants. The best and most important of them might be the new missile-frigate Admiral Makarov.
...

On Thursday and Friday there were reports the Ukrainians had landed a blow with a Neptune and the frigate was on fire. There was no immediate hard evidence to back up the rumors, although one blurry video that circulated online does seem to depict a warship in flames.

Commissioned in 2017, Admiral Makarov is the third, last and most modern vessel in her class. All three of the Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates belong to the Black Sea Fleet. Armed with 24 Buk medium-range surface-to-air missiles and eight Kalibr cruise missiles, all in vertical cells, the frigates can escort other vessels and also attack targets on land.

Admiral Makarov and her sisters are not big ships. Displacing just 4,000 tons of water and accommodating 200 crew, they’re less than half the size of the U.S. Navy’s main surface combatants, the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers.

But the frigates are about as big as Russia can make a non-nuclear surface combatant these days, for reasons that—ironically—have everything to do with the current war. Throughout the Soviet era and for years after the USSR’s collapse, Russia acquired its big marine engines from Ukraine.

After Russia in 2014 invaded and annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula—including the port of Sevastopol where Admiral Makarov now is based—Kyiv barred certain exports to Russia, including the marine engines Russia requires for any fast, conventional vessel displacing more than 5,000 tons or so.

Which is to say, after 2014 the Russian navy struggled to build big warships. That made it impossible to replace, like for like, the biggest Soviet-vintage ships such as Moskva, which displaced 12,000 tons.

...

Moskva’s sinking, along with the earlier destruction of the Black Sea Fleet landing ship Saratov following an apparent hit by a Ukrainian ballistic missile, spooked fleet commanders. They pulled back the surviving surface ships.

Many, including one Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate—it’s not clear which—were moored in Sevastopol as recently as Thursday. When the warships do sail from Crimea, they tend to stay 100 miles or so from the Ukrainian coast, potentially keeping them beyond the range of Kyiv’s Neptunes.

Keeping at a safe distance meant the frigates apparently were in no position to help when the Ukrainian navy last week mounted a furious drone assault on the Russian garrison on Snake Island. The tiny hunk of rock, 25 miles off the coast of southwestern Ukraine, helped Kyiv assert some control over the western Black Sea—until the Russians captured it on the first full day of the current war on Feb. 24.

Ukrainian TB-2 drones knocked out Russian air-defenses on the island then went hunting deeper at sea. On Monday, a TB-2 struck two Russian Raptor-class patrol boats with laser-guided missiles, heavily damaging if not destroying both of the 55-foot boats as they motored toward Snake Island.

Without the protection of a frigate, the Raptors were sitting ducks. In that sense, sinking Moskva—and scaring off the rest of the Black Sea Fleet’s major combatants—was as good as sinking the frigates, too. It doesn’t matter that Russia still has three powerful warships in the Black Sea if those ships can’t, or won’t, risk approaching the Ukrainian coast.
...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/06/the-russian-frigate-admiral-makarov-might-be-the-juiciest-target-in-the-black-sea/?sh=5439ecbb74d5&source=patrick.net

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157

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 18, 4:35pm

RayAmerica says

"Just remember, I don't get my $Billions, you don't get your 10%."

Reality check for the comedian Zelensky. Do you want to see an end to this war? Here's the answer: no money, no more war.

Senior House GOP Lawmaker: Not Enough Votes in House Republican Conference for Ukraine Aid

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/09/18/senior-house-gop-lawmaker-not-enough-votes-house-republican-conference-ukraine-aid/

Except European aid is already 2x of what the US provides. It should be enough to finish the Red Fleet in the Black Sea for good, rendering Crimea useless for its intended purpose and not worth holding onto. Then Europeans pocket all the $350-600B of Soviet money and assets stuck abroad to compensate them for the trouble and the US will be left looking like a bunch of cucks who folded in front of a hollowed-out fake empire.

158 socal2 2023 Sep 18, 4:51pm

richwicks says

socal2 says

And there it is! Always America's fault.

Yes, it generally is.

If America is primarily (solely?) responsible for all the bad outcomes (wars) around the world and our arch geopolitical rivals like the USSR, Russia, China and Islamists were mere victims or bystanders - does that mean America (or the Globohomo banksters?) gets all the credit for all the massive worldwide improvements in the past 80 years in terms of reduction of poverty, war, famine, genocide and overall improvement in literacy, health, lifespan, economic/social freedom?

Or are all these massive world improvements in spite of US being the world's superpower since WWII? The Commies, Islamists and 3rd world despots would have gotten there eventually - right?

159

AmericanKulak 2023 Sep 18, 4:55pm

RWSGFY says

Except European aid is already 2x of what the US provides.

As of end of February, the apologetic was that while the EU sent half what the US did, it was a higher share of the typical EU country's GDP.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-02-24/these-countries-have-sent-the-most-aid-to-ukraine

Of course "Typical" includes Malta, Lativa, Andorra, Estonia, etc. and I'm sure doesn't apply to G7 heavyweights and the writers knew that when they wrote the dodging propaganda piece.

If the IMPORTANT European countries were donating this much, and knowing the EU is richer than the US in GDP, the Europeans would have to be contributing more in raw dollar equivalents.

Another misleading half-truth "Ukraine's neighbors", which doesn't include the other G7s like France, Germany, Italy, etc.

Here's what Ukraine Aid should look like if the EU and US were EQUALLY committed.

Frankly, the EU should be paying 80%.

160

AmericanKulak 2023 Sep 18, 5:03pm

Another dodge is counting 4 and 5 year commitments as "Aid" comparable to US Aid promised within the year.

So Norway promises 7B over 5 years counts as "7B" equal to a 3rd Quarter US Package of $20B that will be 100% delivered mostly in weeks or months.

See the Trickery here:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

"Look at how many sacks of potatoes and hemp rope and amber chunks Lithuania gave!!!"

The only country on this list that is an internationally noted economic bigwig is Netherlands.

161

AmericanKulak 2023 Sep 18, 5:12pm

Jakob Fugger rubbing hands with glee when the US pays the installment payments on EuroBank Fuggers Loans on behalf of Ukraine. Because you know that's going to happen at some point, win or loss.

All the "financial aid" money EU is lending to Ukraine is in bonds and loands, and the US will end up paying off, just you watch.

162

richwicks 2023 Sep 18, 5:27pm

socal2 says

If America is primarily (solely?) responsible for all the bad outcomes (wars) around the world and our arch geopolitical rivals like the USSR, Russia, China and Islamists were mere victims or bystanders

No - did I say that? Did I even imply it? Then why are you asking?

The United States is responsible for the disasters in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, IRAN (the US overthrew it), Nicaragua, Haiti, and currently Ukraine. SOME countries have managed to recover, but not most.

If the US would just GET THE FUCK OUT and stop making the same "mistakes" over and over again, MAYBE, they could concentrate on improving US infrastructure rather than wasting 10's of trillions of dollars on fucking wars that do NOTHING for this nation.

The Federal Government is nothing but a parasite on US citizens, and a fucking group of criminal syndicates and goons abroad.

People are treating the Ukrainian war like a fucking football game cheering on "their side". Well, there's going to be 100's of thousands of dead by the end of it. None of this would have happened if the CIA twats didn't fucking overthrow the government. If they want to CHANGE the government, fine, they can nudge them, suggest to them, give them incentives - but no, they just overthrew it and it's only going to cost a trillion dollars in the end, ruin European energy stability, and destroy a country.

Of course the Ukraine is going to lose - when do they EVER fucking win? It's just one fuckup after another "but this time.." - no, 7 wars, it's predictable. The best the US has accomplished in my FUCKING LIFETIME is a stalemate unless you're talking about the Geneva War.

We have the same shitty infrastructure we did when I was born, nothing has been done. Flint Michigan is still poisoned, Palestine Ohio is forgotten about, Maui citizens were obviously murdered.

I don't give a shit about foreign nations. Win or lose the stupid war, it won't matter to 330 million Americans. What does it take for you to recognize that it's just a criminal syndicate that has been openly running the nation into the ground for decades? Do they have to say it to your face?

original link

Because they already have.

People are fucking sick of this, and I'm sick of people being oblivious to it.

The issue the US has with Russia is that Russia started dealing with organized crime in Russia starting in 2000, before that the Jewish mafia was raping it.
Remember those "oligarchs" they were arresting and putting in cages and on trial? They're raping Ukraine right now, and the people at the top of our government are taking a percentage to help them. That's our "special relationship with Israel". Nothing more.

socal2 says

Or are all these massive world improvements in spite of US being the world's superpower since WWII? The Commies, Islamists and 3rd world despots would have gotten there eventually - right?

YES, they would.

Stop PRETENDING our nation does anything for the betterment of the world. Right now, our largest trading partner is CHINA, you know the communist nation. Are you pretending to be naive, or are you this naive? WHY are we trading with CHINA, a communist nation?

I bet the chair you're in right now is from China, and so is the device you're reading this on.

The USSR collapsed under its own weight. China would have too, except we decided to turn communist slaves into producers in order to enslave our own nation. We FREELY sold products to Russia, but we bought nothing from them. What's China doing to us?

They are collapsing us. We are already in collapse. Without a common set of beliefs, which has been maintained through a mass media for the last 150 years, a nation can't exist. Well, our media was turned into total fucking propaganda 20 years ago. Colin Powell's son, Michael, was put into charge the FCC under William Clinton. In just a few years, all our media was consolidated and now, it's all bullshit.

163 Reality 2023 Sep 18, 7:30pm

socal2 says

If America is primarily (solely?) responsible for all the bad outcomes (wars) around the world and our arch geopolitical rivals like the USSR, Russia, China and Islamists were mere victims or bystanders - does that mean America (or the Globohomo banksters?) gets all the credit for all the massive worldwide improvements in the past 80 years in terms of reduction of poverty, war, famine, genocide and overall improvement in literacy, health, lifespan, economic/social freedom?

Or are all these massive world improvements in spite of US being the world's superpower since WWII? The Commies, Islamists and 3rd world despots would have gotten there eventually - right?

The argument and logic you present here in this quoted comment is exactly what communist parties in countries like China, Cuba and North Korea make: taking credit for all the improvements in the last half century+ due to technological improvements and despite those criminal regimes. Notice, global living standards were already experiencing industrial take-off (exponential growth) before WWI (never mind WWII). The arrival of WWI and WWII only slowed down the improvement, in some cases like in Russia going backwards, thanks to banksters' scheme to harvest the bank balances of the Czar and Russian upper and middle classes, basically anyone who had bank balance or wealth that could be turned into gold bricks and exported by the communist regime. Then it was the Germans' and Jews' turn to be harvested by the banksters during WWII; when the Holocaust took place, the biggest beneficiaries were not the criminal thieves digging gold tooth fillings but the banks and life insurance (as a form of savings) companies where the victims had accounts but could no longer claim when entire families were slaughtered without a death certificate. After that, the Chinese (civil war and communist take-over to killing tens of millions, especially the relatively well off), the Indians (communal violence by splitting that sub-continent and deliberately causing mass relocation), even creating the Apartheid South Africa in 1948 a few years after the supposedly anti-racist WWII in order to attract racist whites to South Africa to soak privileged benefits for a few decades then to be harvested and slaughtered through genocidal reverse-racism as we have been witnessing the last couple decades. The Ukraine project is along the same line: both Ukrainians and Russians living in Ukraine had always given an undeserved credit of cultural superiority to Western Ukraine, e.g. one of the top landmarks in Kharkov/Karkhiv would have a chocolate shop called "Lviv Chocolatier" in the prime retail space, as shown by one of Gonzalo Lira's videos in the early days of the conflict; obviouly, Lviv is not nearly warm enough to grow cocoa tree to produce cacao oil for making chocolate, so whatever chocolate from Lviv would have to be imported (likely from Latin America), so the name was reflecting nothing less than cultural admiration for Lviv. Yet, to parlay that mild sense of cultural admiration/superiority into racist hatred of Russian-speaking Eastern Ukrainians had to be one of those mass delusion formation events along the same line as Covid hysteria, pogroms, giving lard and tallow soaked cartridges to Sepoy soldiers in order to foment a mass slaughter of British colonial families (including thousands of women and children) who had put their money in the banks.

You know what else, repressive regimes like those of Communist China (and imperial China before it) and the USSR could not and can not survive without external trade. The US military superiority protecting the global sea-borne trade was enabling those trade. If not for US military might (paid for by American tax payers) protecting investors investing into the territories of those regimes that enjoy "repressive regime low labor cost advantage," the factory owners in the US would not even have dared to move their factories there.

164

Patrick 2023 Sep 18, 7:54pm

AmericanKulak says

Jakob Fugger rubbing hands with glee when the US pays the installment payments on EuroBank Fuggers Loans on behalf of Ukraine. Because you know that's going to happen at some point, win or loss.

I visited Fugger's retirement complex in Augsburg during the year I studied in Munich:

https://www.fugger.de/en/fuggerei

Hadn't heard of him before then, but I think he was the richest man in the world, and needed some good PR. It was a good deed for sure.

165

AmericanKulak 2023 Sep 18, 9:07pm

Patrick says

Hadn't heard of him before then, but I think he was the richest man in the world, and needed some good PR. It was a good deed for sure.

Around 1500 he personally owned at least 2% of Europe's GDP and was wealthy enough to pay for the Emperor's Army salaries, wages, and supplies.

166

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 19, 9:07am

Let's take a gander, shall we?

This is pre-war strength if the Red Fleet in the Black Sea:

40 surface warships and 4 submarines (7 officially, but 2 are out in the Med and one - Alrosa - in non-functioning state for a decade).

And here are the confirmed losses:

15 combatants and one tug.

(Screenshots from here: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1)

So, out of 44 warships and subs 15 are lost.

Does that mean the Soviet Black Sea Fleet has been decimated? Nope: decimation in Latin means 1 out of ten. Here we have 1 out of every 3. What's the Latin word for this situation?

Mind you, all this achieved w/o American weaponry: it's indigenous AShMs and USVs, Turkish drones, British and French cruise missiles, some AShMs from Norway, etc. Sleepy Joe is still waffling on ATACMS (that $35M from Baturina is working as intended) which could've helped finishing the job and ending the war much faster.

167 socal2 2023 Sep 19, 9:41am

RWSGFY says

Does that mean the Soviet Black Sea Fleet has been decimated? Nope: decimation in Latin means 1 out of ten. Here we have 1 out of every 3. What's the Latin word for this situation?

But but but McGreggor said the Ukrainians have been "Bled White" and are going to fall any day now.

168

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 19, 10:02am

socal2 says

RWSGFY says

Does that mean the Soviet Black Sea Fleet has been decimated? Nope: decimation in Latin means 1 out of ten. Here we have 1 out of every 3. What's the Latin word for this situation?

But but but McGreggor said the Ukrainians have been "Bled White" and are going to fall any day now.

... back in March of 2022 no less.

169

Shaman 2023 Sep 19, 11:13am

You know it’s about over when the state-controlled media throws in the towel…

https://www.newsweek.com/we-can-no-longer-hide-truth-about-russia-ukraine-war-opinion-1826532

170

Shaman 2023 Sep 19, 11:14am

Plus up to 500,000 North Korean troops coming to the war on Putin’s side. In exchange for feeding them and providing tech NK wants.

171

AmericanKulak 2023 Sep 19, 11:43am

RWSGFY says

Mind you, all this achieved w/o American weaponry: it's indigenous AShMs and USVs, Turkish drones, British and French cruise missiles, some AShMs from Norway, etc. Sleepy Joe is still waffling on ATACMS (that $35M from Baturina is working as intended) which could've helped finishing the job and ending the war much faster.

Yep:

* Explains why Russia is snippy over Crimea and NATO in the Black Sea

* A warning that the day of surface vessels is about over. The carrier and guided missile destroyer/cruiser is going to be like the Battleship in WW2. Build more subs.

172

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 19, 11:59am

AmericanKulak says

A warning that the day of surface vessels is about over. The carrier and guided missile destroyer/cruiser is going to be like the Battleship in WW2. Build more subs.

I think it's an over-simplification. For example Moskva was supposed to be the IAD umbrella for the whole Black Sea fleet, able to protect against aircraft, AShMs, cruise missiles, you-name-it. Yet, it was taken out by 2 AShMs. Then, there is another wunderwaffe - S-400 - which is supposedly able to shot down everything from aircraft and drones to cruise and ballistic missiles. Two of these have been destroyed by some combination of drone/missile attack in the last week. Two, Karl!

On the other hand we see fragile and overhyped Patriot practically closing the skies over Kyiv for everything Soviet threw at them, including the hypersonic Pukin wunderwaffe Kinzhal.

It's not just the concept, execution matters a lot. Soviets create lots of hype over their supposedly advanced military tech and its capabilites. When checked in battle (or brought in by defectors, as was in case of MiG-25) they sometimes fall way short of the hype. So if Soviets can't do missile destroyer thing properly, doesn't mean nobody can.

173

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 19, 12:02pm

Shaman says

You know it’s about over when the state-controlled media throws in the towel…

What is state-controlled media here? Oryx? And all the photo/video there is CGI? Bless your heart...

174

AmericanKulak 2023 Sep 19, 12:02pm

Eric Holder says

On the other hand we see fragile and overhyped Patriot practically closing the skies over Kyiv for everything Soviet threw at them, including the hypersonic Pukin wunderwaffe Kinzhal.

You mean the one that was aimed at and hit the Patriot Battery?

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/16/politics/patriot-missile-damage-ukraine

175

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 22, 11:22am

This morning Black Sea Fleet HQ in Sevastopol was hit during high level meeting, no info on dead or wounded, but ambulances were responding to HQ from all over Sevastopol region. Also were hit units in Yevpatoria, Feodosia, and a few AA units mostly Pantsir-S1 or S2 were destroyed. S-300 and S-400 seem to survive this night.

176

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 22, 11:23am

AmericanKulak says

Eric Holder says

On the other hand we see fragile and overhyped Patriot practically closing the skies over Kyiv for everything Soviet threw at them, including the hypersonic Pukin wunderwaffe Kinzhal.

You mean the one that was aimed at and hit the Patriot Battery?

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/16/politics/patriot-missile-damage-ukraine

Yep. The Patriot is still up and running.

177

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 22, 11:31am

"What air defense doing?"

178

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 22, 11:33am

CGI! CGI!!! CGI!!!!

179

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 22, 11:35am

Multiple explosions in the port of occupied Sebastopol:

180

RayAmerica 2023 Sep 22, 1:33pm

Rand Paul calls out Lindsey Graham over Ukraine aid

"In order for us to give more money to Ukraine, we have to first borrow it from China."

Sen. Paul vows to stop any spending bill with Ukraine aid attached to it.
https://rumble.com/v3jkwoj-rand-paul-calls-out-lindsey-graham-over-ukraine-aid.html

181

RayAmerica 2023 Sep 22, 8:38pm

Seymour Hersh Claims Ukraine ‘War Effort’ Is ‘All Lies’: ‘The War Is Over – Russia Has Won’

“The war is over. Russia has won,” a senior U.S. intel official reportedly told Hersh.

“There is no Ukrainian offensive anymore, but the White House and the American media have to keep the lie going.

“The truth is if the Ukrainian army is ordered to continue the offensive, the army would mutiny.

“The soldiers aren’t willing to die anymore, but this doesn’t fit the B.S. that is being authored by the Biden White House.”
https://slaynews.com/news/seymour-hersh-claims-ukraine-war-effort-all-lies-war-over-russia-won/

182

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 22, 8:40pm

More CGI for your viewing pleasure:

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1705272408620277986/mediaViewer?mode=profile

That AI-generated stuff is getting gooood!

183

richwicks 2023 Sep 22, 9:03pm

RayAmerica says

“The soldiers aren’t willing to die anymore, but this doesn’t fit the B.S. that is being authored by the Biden White House.”
https://slaynews.com/news/seymour-hersh-claims-ukraine-war-effort-all-lies-war-over-russia-won/

I'm doubtful because why would Seymour Hersh give the story to another reporter, instead of just report on it?

Bunch of unsourced quotes in there.

184

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 23, 9:48am

185

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 23, 9:52am

Aaaaand the remaining three landing ships are out of Sebastopol and the Black Sea alltoghether, hiding in the Nazi Sea ... err... I mean Azov Sea:

https://twitter.com/tom_bike/status/1703838577740705859

They started the SCHMO with 7 of these, btw.

186

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 23, 3:54pm

Explosion reported near Russian Black Sea Fleet shipyard in Sevastopol

6:30 am, September 23, 2023
Source: Meduza
According to independent publication Agenstvo, residents of the city of Sevastopol in annexed Crimea reported hearing an explosion in the city’s Troitska Bay district on the morning of September 23.

According to local residents, there was a strike near Henerala Zhydylova Street, which is located near a shipyard and the 13th Ship Repair Plant, where ships that are part of the Russian Navy undergo repairs. Agenstvo’s sources noted that it’s not clear whether the missile hit the plant’s structure.

Head of annexed Sevastopol, Mikhail Razvozhayev, said that air defense systems shot down a missile and its debris fell near the pier in the Sukharnaya Bay (located opposite Troitskaya Bay on the other side of the larger Sevastopol Bay).

The Telegram channel Crimean Wind posted photos which appear to show smoke in the Sukharnaya Bay district.

187

Ceffer 2023 Sep 23, 4:38pm

188

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 23, 6:11pm

Ceffer says

🤡
Oh, Ceffer is now worried about Clihmate Chaaange. How cute.

You know who can turn everybody's attention to that precious AGW you and Greta are so worried about? The Cretin of Kremlin. All he needs to do is to take his war criminals back to their already very generous internationally-recognized Lebensraum ... err.. borders, pay reparations and allow prosecution of all military crimes (including the forced detention and deportation to the Reich of thousands of children and whatever was done to them there). And presto - the world will be back to that AGW of yours in no time.

PS. Oh, and you know who else think the Cretin's of Kremlin adventure is a "distraction from AGW"? John fucking Kerry.

189

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 23, 6:12pm

190

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 23, 6:15pm

Neutering as seen from space:

191

richwicks 2023 Sep 23, 6:23pm

RWSGFY says

Ceffer says

🤡
Oh, Ceffer is now worried about Clihmate Chaaange. How cute.

I think the point being made is that our governments don't really care about Climate Change other than as a distraction. If they did, they wouldn't be spending the majority of their resources on war.

192

Eric Holder 2023 Sep 25, 11:32am

Fun facts:

Cruiser Moskva was the first flaghip sunk since 1904.
Admiral Sokolov is the first fleet commander killed since 1904.
The current flagship of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet (which replaced Moskva in that role) "Admiral Makarov" which is the name of that that admiral who was killed onboard that flaghip sunk in 1904.

193

RWSGFY 2023 Sep 25, 5:36pm