patrick.net

GNL says

I admit I do not have graphs or proof to share. Only my observations of the people in my circle which includes professionals, family and friends.

You witness it. More valuable than people justifying an over priced car. We all can argue all day but it is markets. EV's are reaching saturation. Don't save you any money. Cost you even more if you put panels on your house that won't work in 6 years. Buy a hybrid. I've driven everything on the road with rentals and family cars. EV's are NOT the future.

"Green" tech is useful for powering a pool pump. Your entire house if you have a decent one cannot be powered by "green" tech. This has been known for a while. It's supplemental power. You gotta drop $10-20k on a battery pack. It would take a decade to pay that off and then I'd have to replace it.

Markets and tech are built for cycles. There's no reason to have something last more than 5-8 years. You have to sell more. If it doesn't break, you have no sales. Thee are smarter people than any of us. We'd be billionaires if we knew what we were doing.

WookieMan says

Buy a hybrid. I've driven everything on the road with rentals and family cars. EV's are NOT the future.

I agree and decided a while back that my wife's next car is either a used 4-door Lexus sedan or a Toyota Camry hybrid. Probably the same for me and my next car. Every mechanic I've ever spoken to says buy a Lexus. If a Lexus is out of your price range, buy a Toyota. Yes, I know they are the same company but most mechanics I've spoken to say the Lexus is better made mechanically.

The only fun car I would buy is a new corvette or a 60s restomod Camaro.

WookieMan says

Your entire house if you have a decent one cannot be powered by "green" tech.

I have toured several houses around here that use solar panels to go "net zero." That is, they feed more into Dominion Power than they take out and thus have no electric bill. Not "off grid" but no need for a battery. The owners did have efficient appliances (including A/C) and were more conscious about leaving lights on. Some were normal suburban two-story homes, while a couple were built from the ground up to be green. From what I understand, the solar panels last about 20 years with a payback of about 10 years.

GNL says

The only fun car I would buy is a new corvette

I know a guy who agrees with you. He trades in his Corvette every year for a new one, but lives in a modest home in a small Nebraska town. The only 2023 'vette I know that is parked in a carport.



This guy is a retired surgeon who has $millions of Berkshire Hathaway stock but prefers to live in the low-end home he inherited from his parents. His only extravagance is this 'vette hobby.

HeadSet says

I have toured several houses around here that use solar panels to go "net zero."

It's generally a lie unless you saw the bills. We did it with our LEED certified homes. Yes I lied. Most builders and solar installers are absolute liars. Can't recall where you are, but I believe you're in an area that is too far North for solar to be worth it.

It's a scam to use government subsidies to make sales. For $20k you might cut your bill in half AND you still finance regardless if it's zero down. People are dumb. I hope you didn't pull the trigger... We don't have the physical resources for solar and EV's to be the future. And the government will get their money. I know the people that are coming after green tech. We all know carbon emissions are bulls shit metrics. EV's won't save the planet, if anything they're making it worse.

GNL says

WookieMan says

Buy a hybrid. I've driven everything on the road with rentals and family cars. EV's are NOT the future.

I agree and decided a while back that my wife's next car is either a used 4-door Lexus sedan or a Toyota Camry hybrid.

Hybrids are retarded. There is this bumper sticker on a car in my neighborhood that says: "Cool Prius - said No-one"

Hybrids have twice the complexity of ICE and pure EV's. Hybrids still have transmissions, ICE engines, need oil changes as well as the complexity of electric motors and batteries to maintain. Hybrids don't have the thrill and power of a pure EV motor and are basically compliance cars for environmentalists who want to think they are "green" but hate Elon Musk or buying American made cars.

The standard range Tesla meets the driving needs of over 90% of US commuters who can charge in their garage.

The OEM's who are going the Hybrid route are doing it out of necessity since they can't compete with Tesla who wisely invested in battery technology and manufacturing 10 years before everyone else - dramatically bringing the price of batteries down.

At no point has my argument even been addressed. EV's are more expensive and not feasible even if you don't pay the electric. You over paid $20-50k more for a car than you needed do. I have no dick issues and have no intention of driving quick or fast. There's no need. You'll kill someone. And you likely will.

Just own it's status and speed. No different than a Ferrari. I don't get the back and forth about this. When Tesla goes under and no one can service your car enjoy that shit show of fuck. Might be lucky if it is paid off by then... Probably not though.

The only thing that an EV has over a conventional car, is that it has better acceleration. Other than that, they pollute as much if not more, they are more expensive, they have a hard limit on lifetime because the batteries degrade over time, they have limited range, there's limited infrastructure for them, if they are in a minor accident they often have to be totaled because there's no way to know if the battery is damaged or not, a damaged battery can create an uncontrollable fire that cannot be extinguished because it doesn't depend on oxygen for the reaction, and they are more expensive, and finally they cut through guard rails like a knife through butter because of their weight:


original link

But they do have better acceleration.

When I was a kid, I didn't understand the disdain people had for "nerds" that were really interested in science and future technology. Now that I'm an adult engineer, I understand it completely, although I don't think people can explain their disdain, but they have this visceral gut feel that "this isn't good".

If my wife lets me (:>)), I am going to buy a manual transmission sports car. I know the new Corvette Stingray is a beauty to behold, but starting at $80k, I dunno. I was looking into a Camaro SS. Last year to get a new one. Bimmers are nice, Toyota Supra, Acura Integra, etc, can’t argue with them, but would like to buy American. Any ideas?

WookieMan says

At no point has my argument even been addressed. EV's are more expensive and not feasible even if you don't pay the electric

It has been addressed and answered several times. You keep comparing a Tesla to a Toyota Corolla or other entry level sedan.

You need to compare a Tesla at least to a mid- level BMW or base model Porsche for a truly apples to apples comparison. Tesla's are not only cheaper to purchase than comparable BMW's and Porsches, they cost far less to operate in terms of fuel and maintenance.

China stole the tech already. Introducing the new and improved ICE version. LOL

HeadSet says

GNL says

The only fun car I would buy is a new corvette

I know a guy who agrees with you. He trades in his Corvette every year for a new one, but lives in a modest home in a small Nebraska town. The only 2023 'vette I know that is parked in a carport.



This guy is a retired surgeon who has $millions of Berkshire Hathaway stock but prefers to live in the low-end home he inherited from his parents. His only extravagance is this 'vette hobby.

Look at this bad boy. Joe Rogan's car.

About 50% of the EVs sold are in California.

That means that for the other 49 states, on average they have 1% of the EV sales each.

They ain't gonna make it in the rest of the country. You can't market them.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

If my wife lets me (:>)), I am going to buy a manual transmission sports car. I know the new Corvette Stingray is a beauty to behold, but starting at $80k, I dunno. I was looking into a Camaro SS. Last year to get a new one. Bimmers are nice, Toyota Supra, Acura Integra, etc, can’t argue with them, but would like to buy American. Any ideas?

If I were you, I'd get a car like this Camaro. They are every bit as fun to drive, will hold its value and no one else has one.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

Your entire house if you have a decent one cannot be powered by "green" tech.

I have toured several houses around here that use solar panels to go "net zero." That is, they feed more into Dominion Power than they take out and thus have no electric bill. Not "off grid" but no need for a battery. The owners did have efficient appliances (including A/C) and were more conscious about leaving lights on. Some were normal suburban two-story homes, while a couple were built from the ground up to be green. From what I understand, the solar panels last about 20 years with a payback of about 10 years.

The warranty on old solars was 10 years. They’re 25 years warranty now on labor and parts with 92% efficiency at the end of 25 years.

Hircus shared his analysis, and the payback is about 8-9 years so you’re spot on.

WookieMan says

HeadSet says

I have toured several houses around here that use solar panels to go "net zero."

It's generally a lie unless you saw the bills. We did it with our LEED certified homes. Yes I lied. Most builders and solar installers are absolute liars. Can't recall where you are, but I believe you're in an area that is too far North for solar to be worth it.

It's a scam to use government subsidies to make sales. For $20k you might cut your bill in half AND you still finance regardless if it's zero down. People are dumb. I hope you didn't pull the trigger... We don't have the physical resources for solar and EV's to be the future. And the government will get their money. I know the people that are coming after green tech. We all know carbon emissions are bulls shit metrics. EV's won't save the planet, if anything they're making it worse.

Everyone is a liar, be it realtors, builders or solar installers, including Wookie. He admitted it here folks.

People are dumb. Wookie, who is a liar, but he knows it all. 🤦‍♂️

HeadSet says

GNL says

The only fun car I would buy is a new corvette

I know a guy who agrees with you. He trades in his Corvette every year for a new one, but lives in a modest home in a small Nebraska town. The only 2023 'vette I know that is parked in a carport.



This guy is a retired surgeon who has $millions of Berkshire Hathaway stock but prefers to live in the low-end home he inherited from his parents. His only extravagance is this 'vette hobby.

I’ve always wanted a Corvette, but wife said it’s not practical as it’s a 2 seater. Can’t fit the family in it. Then I discovered Tesla, and it was over since. I’m sure the Corvette would likely put a smile on my face if I drove it to “work” everyday. The Tesla does the same job for me since. Money can buy happiness…

WookieMan says

At no point has my argument even been addressed. EV's are more expensive and not feasible even if you don't pay the electric. You over paid $20-50k more for a car than you needed do. I have no dick issues and have no intention of driving quick or fast. There's no need. You'll kill someone. And you likely will.

Just own it's status and speed. No different than a Ferrari. I don't get the back and forth about this. When Tesla goes under and no one can service your car enjoy that shit show of fuck. Might be lucky if it is paid off by then... Probably not though.

$20k-$50k more expensive than what? An equivalent car with an equivalent performance?

It’s true you have no dick in this issue. You have never owned a Tesla to know. People who own Rivian say the same thing. The car put a smile on their face every time they drive it. How much does that worth?

A Ferrari or a Lambo is probably a status. Tesla is no status where we live. They’re everywhere on the road. There are so many Tesla that people buy other inferior EVs for the same money, or god forbid even more money, so they can be “different”.

At this point, it doesn’t look like Tesla will go under. Lucid is highly likely. Rivian is a decent candidate to go under too. I pray they make it though. People love their Rivian. They love it so much that makes me consider buying one for my next EV.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

If my wife lets me (:>)), I am going to buy a manual transmission sports car. I know the new Corvette Stingray is a beauty to behold, but starting at $80k, I dunno. I was looking into a Camaro SS. Last year to get a new one. Bimmers are nice, Toyota Supra, Acura Integra, etc, can’t argue with them, but would like to buy American. Any ideas?

I believe the new Corvette Stingray has a hybrid that can hit 0-60 in 2.4sec. Bimmer is a no go for me. I love both the Supra and Integra. I’ve been trying to convince my BIL to give up his model Y performance to me and buy a Supra or Integra. He’s retiring in a few years so it’s time to live it up. 🤣

Just share a new idea to Patnetters in the hope of saving some people money on their car insurance.



https://x.com/mattwallace1701/status/1761067770563936439?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

Eman says

Integra.

I think the Integra is FWD only. A little leary of oversteer if so. RWD or AWD is preferable. I do see quite a lot of tricked out Honda Civics zipping around where I live. I think that is an affordable sports car for the 20 somethings.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Eman says

Integra.

I think the Integra is FWD only. A little leary of oversteer if so. RWD or AWD is preferable. I do see quite a lot of tricked out Honda Civics zipping around where I live. I think that is an affordable sports car for the 20 somethings.

I only wish I could afford a sports car like one of these in my 20’s. My wife (GF then) had a 1991 Acura Legend coup V6. I loved that car.

I installed flowmaster with dual exhausts for my F-150 when I first got it. No more into loud car noises. 😅

If I ever get a sports car, it will be the new model 3 performance. It’s not a sports car per se, but it’s compact and can zip around pretty fast. Tesla offers free test drive. 😂

Eman says

Just share a new idea to Patnetters in the hope of saving some people money on their car insurance.



https://x.com/mattwallace1701/status/1761067770563936439?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

You already know the answer...America is a shit show.

Like Business Insider, Edmunds got caught with bad journalism. MSM knows anything relates to Tesla and/ot Elon will generate tons of clicks. Was it an honest mistake, or was it a click bait? 🤷‍♂️

https://x.com/niccruzpatane/status/1761043723545153583?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

The opposite of fugly...

GNL says

Eman says

Just share a new idea to Patnetters in the hope of saving some people money on their car insurance.



https://x.com/mattwallace1701/status/1761067770563936439?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

You already know the answer...America is a shit show.

Like I said before, it’s a great community on X. People share what works and what doesn’t. We don’t have an expert, who knows everything, like someone on Patnet.

I thought the Cybertruck was fugly when it was revealed in Nov 2019 too, but some people really love it including celebrities. Cyber is the keyword for why it looks the way it looks IMO. The look has grown on me since, but I haven’t made the decision if I’m going to order one.

GNL says

The opposite of fugly...

It’s a beautiful Mustang. Reminds me of gone in 60 seconds.

Eman says

The car put a smile on their face every time they drive it. How much does that worth?

Absolutely this.

richwicks says

When I was a kid, I didn't understand the disdain people had for "nerds" that were really interested in science and future technology. Now that I'm an adult engineer, I understand it completely, although I don't think people can explain their disdain, but they have this visceral gut feel that "this isn't good".

What do you think about this NYSE listed electric plane company? A relative of mine is touting their investment in it.

https://www.jobyaviation.com/

Misc says

That means that for the other 49 states, on average they have 1% of the EV sales each.

MASSIVE sales potential for Tesla. Nothing but clear skies ahead.

Eman says

Like I said before, it’s a great community on X. People share what works and what doesn’t.

Can you clarify please? Are you actually advising people to claim they're anything other than male or female? If so, you're putting $$ before reality, morality, truth, nature and last, but most certainly the most important, GOD.

GNL says

Eman says

Like I said before, it’s a great community on X. People share what works and what doesn’t.

Can you clarify please? Are you actually advising people to claim they're anything other than male or female? If so, you're putting $$ before reality, morality, truth, nature and last, but most certainly the most important, GOD.

Yes, just like every government and corporation does. It's not like you're going to overthrow the government though or boycott the companies.

GNL says

Eman says

Like I said before, it’s a great community on X. People share what works and what doesn’t.

Can you clarify please? Are you actually advising people to claim they're anything other than male or female? If so, you're putting $$ before reality, morality, truth, nature and last, but most certainly the most important, GOD.

I guess you’re being sarcastic? In case you’re not, it’s a community that shares experiences on EVs and solar. From reading these and personal experience, I know my next EV purchase will either be a SUV or a truck. It will be a Tesla or a Rivian. Rivian is coming out with a R2 compact SUV version for $45-50k….likely to compete with the model Y. Given Rivian can use Tesla superchargers starting 2025, this makes it a very viable candidate. The biggest hang up is whether the company will survive in the next couple years. The CEO said the company will become profitable in Q4. If they do, it’s a go for me. I’m rooting for them.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

When I first came to the US, I loved the Camaro Iroc Z. The seller wanted $8k for a slight used, low mileage, in mint condition car. I was a HS kid with no money. Happened to see another guy driving a Camaro with the license plate frame “Pony Killer”. 🤣

Patrick says

Love it.
I like to apply reverse look to judge and understand a new situation.

Eman says

$20k-$50k more expensive than what? An equivalent car with an equivalent performance?

Can it go 400 miles on a single charge? Nope. Can it tow anything? Nope. Can it fit a family of 5 and luggage? Nope. I'm talking any model of Tesla. The truck can tow but you'll be lucky to get 150 miles out of it if that and have to unhook the trailer at most charging stations. Most normal people will dive 200-300 miles on a typical weekend camping trip with the trailer. You just added over an hour to your travel time. 3 turned into probably 5 hour to make it there with cyber truck

I don't need acceleration and can spend $20-50k less for a similar or bigger car. You haven't made a valid argument besides acceleration. That's literally what you dropped $20k more on and will pay more on it in the long run. There is no gas savings when you factor in the cost of the car itself and higher insurance rates. Then factor in you'll need 220v power to your garage or outside. That's wire, permits and an electrician. Another probably $3k-5k. I'd rather invest $20-50k in something that grows instead of depreciates. The returns on that would be better than buying a Tesla and not paying gas.

There's no argument. You want acceleration at a loss of probably $6-7k per year versus an ICE hybrid that can be all electric on your commute, but also take you 400 miles and can fuel up in 5 minutes. I'm basing this off other Tesla owners. I'm not just making shit up. All modern models drive fine for what you need. Just admit you guys overpaid on a Tesla over an ICE hybrid for acceleration reasons.

And you still have the blinders on for the future of EV's. Especially CA. There's a chance you might not be able to charge them if it gets hot. You need more oil to build an EV via mining rare earth minerals and shipping them across the ocean. I'm confused why you two keep defending them like it's cheaper. It's not. And won't be. And again, trust me, government is coming after you for fees and they won't be small.

Eman says

I guess you’re being sarcastic?

I just was unsure whether or not you were advising claiming to be nonbinary in order to save on insurance costs.