patrick.net

RayAmerica says

I'm so glad that I read the above before I saw the following because I actually thought that Putin just might respond in like manner, but socal2 has assured us that 'nothing will happen.'

How dare Ukraine target a Russian ammo dump filled with munitions intended to destroy Ukraine!

That is unfair!

Meanwhile, it is apparently OK for Russia to use weapons and troops from North Korea and Iran to continue their cockup of a war and that is not considered escalation.........let alone pathetically desperate.

socal2 says

their cockup of a war

Russia is winning but that's a 'cockup'.

socal2 says

Meanwhile, it is apparently OK for Russia to use weapons and troops from North Korea and Iran to continue their cockup of a war and that is not considered escalation.........let alone pathetically desperate.

I don’t condone his war. But another perspective from North Korea’s point of view, is their soldiers have never seen an actual war, this is just good practice for their guys to get experience in the modern warfare landscape without actually declaring war.

Don’t blame Russia, the North Koreans sent the troops!

Everybody knows that the Ukrainians are using mercenaries as well.

Heard they have quite a recruitment operation in South America. The Ukies (with AMerican coin) pay more than the South Americans do.

So, the Russians hired North Korean mercenaries.

socal2 says

How dare Ukraine target a Russian ammo dump filled with munitions intended to destroy Ukraine!

That is unfair!

What's 'unfair' is that Ukraine continues to escalate this hopeless cause that was lost on the first day that it started. Ukraine never had a chance to defeat Russia, as in NEVER. Anyone with even half a brain could see that from the very start, in spite of all the hype from the military industrial complex's 'experts' in the media, aka, the Ministry of Propaganda.
In Ukraine, that outcome has been obvious for the last two years, precisely why in order to man the front lines, Ukraine literally has to 'shanghai' men off of the streets. It is now what it has always been; a lost cause.

Take it from a retired 4 Star Ukrainian General in his message to the Ukraine troops:

‘Almost no chance of survival’ – ex-top Ukrainian general to troops

”Remember that the war is becoming more cruel with every day. It leaves almost no chance for survival,” Zaluzhny warned the (Ukrainian) trainees. “Learn not to be afraid of death.”

https://www.rt.com/russia/607935-zaluzhny-speech-troops-britain/

WookieMan says

I think if you can be selected to have bullets thrown your way it should be legal to have a drink, beer preferably at 18.

After studying in Germany, I realized that the reason the Germans can drink arbitrarily young is that they generally don't drive until much later than Americans, and the driving tests there are much more expensive and stricter than here.

Americans are not supposed to drink before 21, but are easily able to drive starting at 16. That's partly due to the vast size of America and abysmal public transit, so a car is really a necessity in a lot of places.

But people that young do really stupid things in cars when drunk, resulting in a lot of political pressure to stop them from drinking rather than from driving.

So that's the problem in a nutshell.

Col. MacGregor: Ukraine will be totally DESTROYED with nothing left if Biden doesn't stop NOW!

MacGregor also provides expert insight into what is happening in the Middle East, Europe, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61p3GxCE4vg

Serbia’s Stark Warning: Putin Ready to Strike, NATO’s Provocations Backfire | Times Now World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev19LDQ3ChU

RayAmerica says

What's 'unfair' is that Ukraine continues to escalate this hopeless cause that was lost on the first day that it started.

Russia intended to take the entire country, occupy Kiev and decapitate the Ukrainian government. That was Putin's stated goals.

No chance that is going to happen now. By Ukraine refusing to roll over and die they are at least going to retain their country's independence, nation's capital and central government, despite the likelihood of losing some valuable land in the East.

There is no putting any lipstick on this pig and trying to act like Russia has "won" anything other than a more unified Europe, 2 new NATO members, hundreds of thousands of Russian casualties and showing the whole world their military is a sad joke.

No doubt Ukraine has suffered grievously - but Russia would be much richer, healthier and more respected and feared today if they didn't choose to blunder into Ukraine. The costs to Russia has been enormous and will be felt for a generation.

socal2 says

Russia intended to take the entire country, occupy Kiev and decapitate the Ukrainian government. That was Putin's stated goals.

Provide the reference where, at any time, Putin stated that his intention was to 'take the entire country' and 'occupy Kiev.'

I un-anxiously await your non-answer knowing that it just can't be found. Yawwwn.

RayAmerica says

socal2 says

Russia intended to take the entire country, occupy Kiev and decapitate the Ukrainian government. That was Putin's stated goals.

Provide the reference where, at any time, Putin stated that his intention was to 'take the entire country' and 'occupy Kiev.'

I un-anxiously await your non-answer knowing that it just can't be found. Yawwwn.

AND that is a statement where he specifically states TAKING Ukraine is his objective. Not some missive like "Ukraine belongs to Russia!" or referencing Ukraine as historical territory of Russia's.

^^^@socal2

RayAmerica says

Provide the reference where, at any time, Putin stated that his intention was to 'take the entire country' and 'occupy Kiev.'

I un-anxiously await your non-answer knowing that it just can't be found. Yawwwn.

WTF?

Why did Putin send thousands of Russian troops and airborne assaults to Kiev in the first week of the war? Remember all those Russian armored columns stuck on the outskirts of Kiev in the first week's of the war that ultimately had to retreat? Remember the failed air assault of the Antonov Airport? Putin's whole goal was to "De-Nazify" Ukraine which meant quickly decapitating the central government in Kiev and disbanding the military.

Putin failed the "Shock and Awe" blitz he thought he would get again like he had in Georgia and Crimea. He really thought many Ukrainians would support Russia's invasion and not defend their country.

Now Russia has been stuck in a 3 year slog of absolutely brutal trench warfare with hundreds of thousands dead and grievously wounded Russian men which will further put Russia into a demographic death spiral.

Ukraine has gotten majorly fucked too........but no spinning this as any kind of victory for Russia.

Russia would have been 1000X better off in every conceivable metric today if they didn't foolishly start this war.

Really failing to see any benefit or future ROI for Russia in all this.

@socal2 was asked for very specific info yet returned a multipatagraph filibuster instead.

socal2 says

The costs to Russia has been enormous and will be felt for a generation.

True, and Putin knew that going into it. Russia took that risk because they see a NATO Ukraine as an existential threat.

In exchange for Trump handing over all the diplomats and deep state fuckers who fomented color revolutions and war (Nuland and other military traitors), WWIII will be averted.

Why pay reparations when you can hand them the heads of those who orchestrated the whole fucking thing?

socal2 says

Russia intended to take the entire country, occupy Kiev and decapitate the Ukrainian government. That was Putin's stated goals.

socal2 ... somehow, you forgot to provide the specific proof for your "Putin's stated goals" assertions. Why am I not surprised?

HeadSet says

True, and Putin knew that going into it.

B.S. Putin thought they were going to topple Kiev in less than 30 days.

I really doubt Putin would have invaded if he "knew" it would be a 3 year slog like this.

RayAmerica says

socal2 ... somehow, you forgot to provide the specific proof for your "Putin's stated goals" assertions. Why am I not surprised?

You tell me then. What are Putin's goals to justify this absolutely terrible loss of Russian and Ukrainian life?

Specifics please. No Russian prop or lazy bromides like "DeNazify" Ukraine.

How long will it take Russia to get their ROI on this MASSIVE investment in Russian blood and treasure? Even if Russian losses are 50% of what has been reported by the West, I just fail to see any kind of "win" for Russia with their current losses.

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

socal2 was asked for very specific info yet returned a multipatagraph filibuster instead.

socal2 says

You tell me then. What are Putin's goals to justify this absolutely terrible loss of Russian and Ukrainian life?

To stop Ukraine from being part of NATO and stop the Black Sea from becoming a NATO lake. Putin does not want to see NATO naval bases in Sevastopol and Odessa.

socal2 says

Putin thought they were going to topple Kiev in less than 30 days.

You're really on quite a roll with your undocumented, imaginative claims. You haven't provided any proof whatsoever that Putin made the statements that you assert, and now you pretend to know Putin's 'thoughts.' Where's your proof to back up your claims? You know it and everyone else knows it, you don't have any.

HeadSet says

To stop Ukraine from being part of NATO and stop the Black Sea from becoming a NATO lake. Putin does not want to see NATO naval bases in Sevastopol and Odessa.

How has that worked out for Russia?

Russian naval ship and base losses in the Black Sea and Crimean peninsula are worse than before the war.

Russia also has 2 new NATO members next door, heavily armed Ukraine and a more unified Europe willing to finally spend money on defense and weapons for Ukraine.

How is this not a monumental back fire for Putin and Russia?

socal2 says

You tell me then. What are Putin's goals to justify this absolutely terrible loss of Russian and Ukrainian life?

To prove that he meant it when he said that NATO is not an acceptable neighbor to Russia.

https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-show-glenn-greenwald-2

Glenn Greenwald: Dangerous New Escalation in Russia, & Our Blackmailed Politicians

RayAmerica says

socal2 says

Putin thought they were going to topple Kiev in less than 30 days.

You're really on quite a roll with your undocumented, imaginative claims. You haven't provided any proof whatsoever that Putin made the statements that you assert, and now you pretend to know Putin's 'thoughts.' Where's your proof to back up your claims? You know it and everyone else knows it, you don't have any.

It's called common sense.

Do you really think Putin planned or even entertained that the war would drag on for 3 years where he would have to burn through massive weapons stockpiles, prisoners, Wagner mercenaries, rely on weapons from Iran and even conscripts from North Korea?

There is no fucking way Putin would have invaded if he had a crystal ball and could see how these past 3 years played out. Way too much pain for too little gain.

Again - common fucking sense.

This entire war has made Putin and the Russian military look pathetic and weak. Russia is still dangerous and can kill alot of people for sure - but it still a total shit-show display for the whole world to see.

Patrick says

To prove that he meant it when he said that NATO is not an acceptable neighbor to Russia.

And Russia got 2 more NATO members as neighbors as a result.

Finland is right next door and shares a huge border with Russia. Both Sweden and Finland are providing weapons to Ukraine.

This needless bloodbath is creating so much winning and deterrence for Putin!

Again - can anyone name a single thing Putin or Russia has gained in all this?

Greenwald makes a good point that Russia supports Syria, which is a threat to Israel.

So there is no clear American interest in Ukraine, but there is an Israeli interest in weakening Russia to weaken Syria, to benefit Israel.

Watching more now...

They point out that the ridiculously aggressive move of using US weapons to hit far within Russia for no US interest at all, but only to make life more difficult for Trump during Biden's lame duck days makes Putin the only adult in the room. Our lives all depend on Putin's good sense and forbearance now, while Blinken and Sullivan are openly playing with our lives to hurt Trump, which is just about the most horrifically treasonous and criminal act imaginable.

Immediate impeachment of Biden is in order, but then, would that get rid of the arch-criminals Blinken and Sullivan?

socal2 says

How has that worked out for Russia?

We were discussing the reasons for Russia invading Ukraine, not whether or not Russia was paying a steep price for it.

Lol, now Greenwald is talking about how he interviewed Mike Johnson, who used to be aggressively opposed to government censorship and FISA courts, but then suddenly flipped one day. Greenwald asked him why, and it was the same bullshit excuse that they all use, one that can never be verified, which is why they use it:

Oh man, this is a great interview:

https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-show-glenn-greenwald-2

You know, now that the US has directly attacked Russia with US missiles guided by US satellites, we can expect, say, another tanker ship to hit another bridge, or something similar.

Russia is clever and will on the one hand make it ambiguous, but clear enough on the other hand.

Probably in the next few days.

Patrick says

They point out that the ridiculously aggressive move of using US weapons to hit far within Russia for no US interest at all, but only to make life more difficult for Trump during Biden's lame duck days makes Putin the only adult in the room. Our lives all depend on Putin's good sense and forbearance now, while Blinken and Sullivan are openly playing with our lives to hurt Trump, which is just about the most horrifically treasonous and criminal act imaginable.

Immediate impeachment of Biden is in order, but then, would that get rid of the arch-criminals Blinken and Sullivan?

Trump should make a deal and hand over the neocon traitors to Russian justice in exchange for a fresh start between our countries.

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

socal2 was asked for very specific info yet returned a multipatagraph filibuster instead.