patrick.net

Vicente - I stopped reading at the end of your first sentence. Perhaps you can't read. I requested readers to respond to the message - not personally attack the messenger. So what do you do???
You insinuate that I am a racist. You attack the messenger. You have demonstrated that you have no intellectual honesty.

Honest Abe says

(PS for small minded readers: if you want to respond - respond to the message, not the messenger).

Stupid is as stupid does. You set that precedent long ago, so don't expect to be taken seriously.

Honest Abe says

Vicente - I stopped reading at the end of your first sentence. Perhaps you can’t read. I requested readers to respond to the message - not personally attack the messenger. So what do you do???
You insinuate that I am a racist. You attack the messenger. You have demonstrated that you have no intellectual honesty.

Awww, is yer feelings hurt?

RayAmerica says

You might want to pose that question to Little ellie’s “significant udder.”

Yea, personal attacks work so well, don't they? Especially when you constantly claim that you're a victim of personal attacks. Once again, this is why you're not taken seriously.

But we're having fun with you and that's all that counts. If you like being the butt of the joke, guys, please do go on...

Vicente ... very interesting quote by a man that was imperfect and a product of his times. Lincoln also wanted to deport most blacks back to Africa because he was convinced they would never acclimate themselves to this society. By the way, how many whites belong to the Congressional Black Caucus? There was a very leftist white Democratic Congressman by the name of Cohen (I believe that's his name) that attempted to join the caucus within the last couple of years. Rep. Cohen was denied membership. The official reason given by the Caucus was "only Blacks are allowed to belong to this caucus." I'd be curious to hear your opinion on this matter; do you believe the Black Caucus is practicing racism by refusing his membership because of his race?

elliemae says

Yea, personal attacks work so well, don’t they? Especially when you constantly claim that you’re a victim of personal attacks. Once again, this is why you’re not taken seriously.

Great comeback by the Queen of Insults. My apologies to your "significant udder."

I'll let him know you worship the Queen. You're in good company.

Honest Abe says

If that’s true, perhaps he, or someone else, could point to the specific part of the Constitution that authorizes him to FORCE every American to buy health insurance.

You're not going to be forced to buy anything, just pay the penalty tax for exercising your God-given right to go without health insurance.

I think you're taking this "live free or die" thing too literally tho.

Troy ... Didn't you promise you were "done here ... I'm out of here, this is it, my final post. Thanks Patrick but this is it, my final, last, parting, never to be repeated post. Goodbye all, it's been fun?"

Troy says

Honest Abe says

If that’s true, perhaps he, or someone else, could point to the specific part of the Constitution that authorizes him to FORCE every American to buy health insurance.

You’re not going to be forced to buy anything, just pay the penalty tax for exercising your God-given right to go without health insurance.
I think you’re taking this “live free or die” thing too literally tho.

Perhaps not. Maybe he's planning to join David Koresh and Jim Jones.

Troy, what part of the constitution authorizes forcing people to buy health insurance or force them to pay a penalty if they don't ???

Abe--

Where in the Constitution does it say you can post inane questions on Internet message boards?

Honest Abe says

Troy, what part of the constitution authorizes forcing people to buy health insurance or force them to pay a penalty if they don’t ???

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Troy says

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

Does "lay and collect taxes" translate in your mind into the government FORCING its citizens to BUY from a PRIVATE entity, in this case, private insurance companies? And if they don't buy this private policy, they will be penalized with a monetary fine?

RayAmerica says

Troy says

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

Does “lay and collect taxes” translate in your mind into the government FORCING its citizens to BUY from a PRIVATE entity, in this case, private insurance companies? And if they don’t buy this private policy, they will be penalized with a monetary fine?

The gummint isn't forcing me to buy insurance any more than it is forcing me to take out a home mortgage or have kids, both of which would reduce my income tax.

Stop using words that don't mean what you're trying to say.

^ you can pay for health insurance (which I already do to Blue Shield ANYWAY) or you get the privilege of paying more taxes to the government.

This is to encourage people to cover themselves and not rely on public charity when they need medical services. It is very much a conservative Republican approach to the public health problem -- it's what the Republicans proposed in 1993 in opposition to HillaryCare, it's what the Heritage Foundation (!) mooted in the last decade, and it's what RomneyCare is.

I understand it's not libertarian, but guess what, this is not a libertarian state.

rich_wicks says

Why don’t you people start using the internet for more than just surfing for porn and downloading movies illegally?

Thanks for asking. The reason is that surfing for porn & illegally downloading movies is much more fun than many other past times, such as answering asinine rhetorical questions posted on interweb forums. We still manage to work the other stuff in, though.

Nomograph says

Just get in line behind that nice Mexican family with 12 screaming kids.

Wrong AGAIN. I counted 13.

Nomograph says

Big brother will take care of you, RayRay.

Isn't Big Brother wonderful? I'm so glad we have a Ministry of Plenty.

Nomo - what PROOF do you have that (1) Ray America is a "low-performing" person? and (2) that he "takes SO MUCH MORE FROM SOCIETY THAN HE PRODUCES"??

Or could it be just more personal attacks - as usual. Please put up or shut up.

Honest Abe says

Nomo - what PROOF do you have that (1) Ray America is a “low-performing” person? and (2) that he “takes SO MUCH MORE FROM SOCIETY THAN HE PRODUCES”??
Or could it be just more personal attacks - as usual. Please put up or shut up.

Read his posts. Read your posts. You're angry and constantly fighting against those who disagree with you. If you feel this strongly, why don't you pay the money to start your own forum about how horrible people with political views that are different than yours are? Maybe you two (or more) could split the money - but that would be sharing and bordering on socialism.

Nomograph says

I’m just throwing his own insulting style right back at him. It’s pretty repulsive, isn’t it?

Be specific and quote the exact insults I've used on you. Don't hold your breath folks.

Abe .... that's all Nomo & ellie have. Ever notice they NEVER address any issues we bring up? I wonder why? Could it be they can't? That's why they always use insults and lies. It's right out of Saul Alinsky.

RayAmerica says

Ever notice they NEVER address any issues we bring up? I wonder why?

It's because you never raise any worthwhile issues. But at least you've learned how to spell "Saul Alinsky."
elliemae says

You’re angry and constantly fighting against those who disagree with you. If you feel this strongly, why don’t you pay the money to start your own forum about how horrible people with political views that are different than yours are?

Really, why fight the man when you could be one?

Did you guys notice that most people don't respond to you - that the only ones who do are those of us who are screwing with you?

Without us you'd be lonely.

tatupu70 says

Abe–
Where in the Constitution does it say you can post inane questions on Internet message boards?

Typical reply by the left when they can't answer a simple question.

RayAmerica says

tatupu70 says

Abe–
Where in the Constitution does it say you can post inane questions on Internet message boards?

Typical reply by the left when they can’t answer a simple question.

You're still here?

elliemae says

It’s because you never raise any worthwhile issues.

Another gem from the genius that posts such serious and worthwhile issues such as "I'm here for you, Brad Pitt." Or how about "Lawyer sues to get coat back." Deep, very deep. Thanks for playing Little ellie. LOL

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

It’s because you never raise any worthwhile issues.

Another gem from the genius that posts such serious and worthwhile issues such as “I’m here for you, Brad Pitt.” Or how about “Lawyer sues to get coat back.” Deep, very deep. Thanks for playing Little ellie. LOL

I'm pleased that you follow all my posts so closely. Makes me feel warm & fuzzy.

The Wall Street Journal reports: "As ranks of uninusured expand, nation faces shortage of 150,000 doctors in 15 years. Hahaha - I told you so.

My guess is that it'll be far worse than that. More doctors will retire sooner due to red tape, government interference, endless "forms" to fill in etc, etc, etc. And becoming a doctor will have less appeal for many of the same reasons. Rationed care at its worst is what is on the horizon in the United States of Utopia - comrade, hahaha. I told you so.

Honest Abe says

My guess is that it’ll be far worse than that. More doctors will retire sooner due to red tape, government interference, endless “forms” to fill in etc, etc, etc. And becoming a doctor will have less appeal for many of the same reasons. Rationed care at its worst is what is on the horizon in the United States of Utopia - comrade, hahaha. I told you so.

Not sure you can say I told you so before the fact....

How about cause and effect. How about unintended consequences. These are things liberal, progressive, socialistic, do-gooder democrats never think or care about. They only care about "GOOD INTENTIONS" Unfortunately they never care about the outcome or results. Its called The Tyranny of Good Intentions, comrade.

"Yet America keeps on keeping on". Are you implying every thing's okay ?? I don't know if the tens of MILLIONS of unemployed, and the tens of MILLIONS of underemployed, and the tens of MILLIONS who've had their equity, savings and retirement wiped out, and the tens of MILLIONS who are upset that a big, bloated, non-responsive government is deficit spending them, their children and their grandchildren into oblivion, would agree with you.

Honest Abe says

“Yet America keeps on keeping on”. Are you implying every thing’s okay ?? I don’t know if the tens of MILLIONS of unemployed, and the tens of MILLIONS of underemployed, and the tens of MILLIONS who’ve had their equity, savings and retirement wiped out, and the tens of MILLIONS who are upset that a big, bloated, non-responsive government is deficit spending them, their children and their grandchildren into oblivion, would agree with you.

So are you implying that it's the government's responsibility to make sure everything is OK for everybody? That sounds awfully socialist to me. Are you afraid of freedom?

Hahaha, none of you lib's, with your personality disorder's, will ever admit that the problems I stated above are CAUSED by government. Hahaha.

"I have observed that the liberal agenda's invasive social policies foster economic irresponsibility, pathological dependency and social conflict." Quote from a doctor who has studied mental disorders for 40 years.

Are liberals out of their minds? Apparently the answer is YES. Perhaps thats why they refuse to acknowledge simple concepts like: If you drastically expand the money supply - price's increase. Constantly spending more money than you have will cause financial stress, ultimately bankrupcy. Debasing your own currency will lead to economic problems. Gold does have value. 2 + 2 = 4

Honest Abe says

2 + 2 = 4

Your math is wrong. In Oceania, 2 + 2 = 5. You wouldn't want to confuse Nomo now would you?

RayAmerica says

Almost the entire “healthcare” system we have is a rigged game. Instead of being involved in teaching people about prevention (not much money in that), our system simply repairs the abuse Americans inflict on their own bodies. I’ve seen studies that indicate that up to 70% of all disease and health problems are directly related to lifestyle, i.e. poor eating & drinking habits, lack of exercise, smoking, overweight, etc. The system the government is attempting to force all of us into does not address the problem of individuals abusing themselves, nor does it reward those that strive to live a healthy life. What’s wrong with this picture?

I work for a company which choose to address exactly that this year.
Simply put we no longer have a copay, but we have a deductible of 800 per year for employee only coverage. We do still pay a bi-weekly contribution, but 90% of it is also subsidized.
During the course of the year, we are given opportunities to learn and do something for our health: attend fitness seminars over 6weeks, do fitness challenges, visit the gym and track the fitness. Each activity successful completion is measured and if achieved you are set a side a certain dollar amount into account. For example 6 weeks counseling on better eating is $100 worth. All together you may earn $800 i.e. exact amount that covers the cost of your deductible.

The healthy most likely will do the programs and earn the money, but never use it. (They are transferable over years, but you lose them if you leave the company). Still a benefit, at minimum their health is better and they know more
The unhealthy ones, have an opportunity to recapture the cost of their care up to deductible. Rest if any outpocket needed they are paying for their earlier carelessness.

do I not like it? Yes I do not. I do not think the healthy ones got rewarded. I think we were all given similar opportunities.

I am sure company will use results somehow to say (we cannot tell you specifically who) but on average that many improved their health, hence premium for the company is less.

Funny though, If I was given real dollars, lets say $15 each time I am at the gym. I think I would be there more often. I would find time in a flash.

The modern liberal agenda with its welfare state, and invasive government regulations undermines the foundations of freedom, social order and adult cooperation. The socialist, collectivist agenda is founded on fundamental misconceptions of human nature and human freedom. It misconcieves the social nature of man. It misconcieves the development of adult competence and personal sovereigenty. It misconcieves the independent nature of how adults interact with each other in economic and social realms. These misconceptions result in policies destructive to freedom and social order.

Governments always declare their purposes to be the protection of the peoples rights and the maintainence social order. But even with the best INTENTIONS, government routinely violate the rights of society and disorganize the order they are assigned to protect. You might call that "The Law of Unintended Consequences".

The larger government becomes, the more government strips and eliminates peoples freedoms, disrupts social order, and causes economic havoc. All for "beneficial" reasons, and for the "common good". Just ask any of our numerous "Czar's" - they'll tell you, comrade. Now get back to work, others are depending on the fruits of your labor.

Honest Abe says

The modern liberal agenda with its welfare state, and invasive government regulations undermines the foundations of freedom, social order and adult cooperation. The socialist, collectivist agenda is founded on fundamental misconceptions of human nature and human freedom. It misconcieves the social nature of man. It misconcieves the development of adult competence and personal sovereigenty. It misconcieves the independent nature of how adults interact with each other in economic and social realms. These misconceptions result in policies destructive to freedom and social order.

No one is stopping you from leaving the country. In fact, we encourage it.

Wow, you bought a thesaurus? Good for you.

Now, let's work on sentence structure and the ability to formulate coherent thoughts.