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7265   FortWayne   2011 Jun 3, 1:10pm  

Mother Muckraker says

Excellent! Amazon should be taxed so California can fund our schools and much needed services. All big business need to pay their fair share.

Do you understand that it won't be amazon paying taxes since sales taxes are a passthrough, but all of us instead. And the worst part is that we'll be paying taxes for buying something outside of state. Paying taxes online is an equivalent to me driving out to Washington state and paying 10% to the state of CA.

Since you dont understand let me break it out to you:

Before taxes bill:
purchase: $100
taxes: 0
total: $100

after taxes bill:
purchase: $100
taxes: $10
total: $110

at the end its just the middle class paying to hand over more money to government shills. So legislature passed more taxes without voter approval, which I believe is illegal in CA anyway.

7266   SoTex   2011 Jun 3, 1:15pm  

ChrisLA says

So legislature passed more taxes without voter approval, which I believe is illegal in CA anyway.

Yes! Correctomundo but they are saying it's an "extension of an existing law" or some crap like that.

Keep it up California and you'll never get any property taxes from me!

7267   marcus   2011 Jun 3, 1:16pm  

ChrisLA says

marcus if you love taxes so much go ahead and send the state a check. ignorant prick

What do fox viewers and am radio listeners have in common other than below (sometimes far below) average intelligence ? Answer: Hate.

7268   SoTex   2011 Jun 3, 1:18pm  

APOCALYPSEFUCK says

If Los Angeles were in Europe, it’d be a country.

A few years back I'd heard there are more people in the greater Los Angeles area than all of Canada.

Then I told my Canadian friend Sheila I was going to move to her part of the Yukon (whitehorse) and start chopping down trees to build strip malls. It'll be prime real estate once global warming kicks in.

I made her cry.

7269   SoTex   2011 Jun 3, 1:26pm  

marcus says

What do fox viewers and am radio listeners have in common other than below (sometimes far below) average intelligence ? Answer: Hate.

See Marcus, I hear that hate much louder from the lib stations and libs in general. Seriously can you think of one city full of conservatives you could compare to SF or Bezerkely? I remember when the IRAQ war started - the protesters in SF were freaking shitting (literally) in the street! In protest no less! That's like radical muslims crapping on Mecca. Pretty high IQ (and EQ) those jokers had..

7270   kc6zlv   2011 Jun 3, 1:35pm  

simchaland says

This happens all the time now in inter-State commerce. Also this happens under reciprocal agreements between States who have State residents who work over state lines in another state.

The law already exists that if you are a resident of the State where the online company is located, you must pay your sales tax to your State.

What happens all the time? Give me an example?

States are not allowed to interfere with interstate commerce. They can't tax or prohibit it. They can't discourage it in any way. There have been multiple rulings in favor of businesses where some state tried to force these businesses to collect sales taxes on their behalf. There are also rulings against states which have attempted to collect use taxes under the guise of "it isn't fair in-state businesses must do so."

This law has been played up with some story that in-state businesses must compete with out of state businesses over the issue of sales tax, and forcing out of state businesses to collect sales taxes would discourage people from ordering out of state. If you discourage people from ordering from a business out of state, that is interfering with interstate commerce.

Even the "use tax" is a grey area, which is why you see states threatening to enforce compliance, but do little to actually enforce use tax laws.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/oklrv32&div=25&id=&page=

7271   MarkInSF   2011 Jun 3, 1:45pm  

A lot people in the US are vulnerable to high oil prices since we decided to build everything in huge sprawling suburbs where you have to burn a cup of gasoline just to go get a cup of coffee.

The oil age is over, or at least will be soon. Probably even within my lifetime. It's got nothing to do with speculators, the Fed, or OPEC.

7272   marcus   2011 Jun 3, 2:08pm  

just_passing_through says

Seriously can you think of one city full of conservatives you could compare to SF or Bezerkely? I remember when the IRAQ war started - the protesters in SF were freaking shitting (literally) in the street! In protest no less! That’s like radical muslims crapping on Mecca. Pretty high IQ (and EQ) those jokers had..

It's true that SF is unique. But it seems to me that those who protested the Iraq war from the start (unlike myself - I initially trusted that the govt had intelligence(ie info) that warranted it) turned out to be right (imo in hindsight). It wasn't worth the people we lost, the people we killed or the $$$.

It's true that liberals hate the perceived stupidity of the right as much as right wingers (note I don't say conservatives) hate what they wish was stupidity on the left.

But the difference is that the right is willing to appeal to a litany of other hateful (and ignorant) perceptions. Eg those related to race, homosexuality, and diversity in general. They appeal to the fears of the ignorant.

Can you give me a parallel on the left ?

(edited ^ )

7273   SoTex   2011 Jun 3, 2:35pm  

marcus says

But the difference is that the right is willing to appeal to a litany of other hateful (and ignorant) perceptions. Eg those related to race, homosexuality, and diversity in general. They appeal to the fears of the ignorant.

Can you give me a parallel on the right ?

Those protesters were morons with a twisted sense of reality prone to irrational action based on emotion. I hang out with a bunch of them they are also lovable and fun.

Look, Bush didn't lie! People can debate about all the other fuck ups he made but the Cindy Sheehan bat shit crazy people I meet who tell me that are like Creation Scientists to me. I won't debate them, they are a waste of breath - or carpal tunnel syndrome. Just about every intelligence agency on the planet was saying the same damn thing about Saddam. Besides, gulf war I never technically ended what were we to do fly over the place forever? I like what Obama has been doing in the wars and I said that pre-Bin Laden. I like how he's got Europe cleaning up their own back yard (Libya) for once. I want to see the wars end pretty badly these days but for entirely different reasons than left or right nuts.

I think left-nuts pull the race and sex card (anti-woman) more often in politics and agree with you the right-nuts discriminate against homosexuals, which I think is awful. That is one of many things that I don't like about right-nuts. Disbelief of evolution, evangelical religious BS.. wait, I almost forgot I'm on a left leaning blog so I'm sticking up for the underdogs..

7274   Sean7593   2011 Jun 3, 7:38pm  

Threads like this are exactly why Patrick should have closed this site when the housing bubble popped back in 2007.

Seriously, folks. Move forward.

7275   kc6zlv   2011 Jun 3, 8:33pm  

SF ace says

here is nothing gray about use tax. If it is taxable, it is taxed either as a sales tax or reciprical use tax. The difference is who is liable, seller or buyer.

Did you bother to read the link I posted? If not, I suggest reading the ruling in the last paragraph.

The legislature is promoting this as a way to benefit in-state businesses at the expense of inter-state commerce. It isn't the use tax, it is the intent, or what they claim the intent is. We both know it is for revenue, but the promotion of the idea that it will encourage people to buy from California businesses and discourage purchases from out of state businesses can clearly be interpreted as an attempt to interfere with interstate commerce.

7276   Â¥   2011 Jun 3, 9:17pm  

state says

i dunno guys, gas in europe costs 8 bucks a gallon and yet somehow they survive

"All taxes come out of rents"

7277   FortWayne   2011 Jun 3, 10:13pm  

michaelsch says

ChrisLA says

we are doing the same. it is just insane how much it costs now. for me alone it costs around 500/month, my wife about half of that. ~40% of income is taxes, $750 on gas monthly. At this rate I haven’t bought anything yet or fed my family and already lost a huge chunk of my income. Lovely how this system works.

It makes no sense. 50mi to office is just 100 round trip. Assuming 22 business days it’s 2200 miles a month. To burn $500 a month you need a dinosaur that makes 18mpg on freeway.

This is Los Angeles traffic, it sometimes takes 10 to 15 minutes (or longer) just to go a mile. So 18mpg makes sense (*should be 28 without traffic), I don't even drive on weekends.

I will get a hybrid in a few years though to augment this situation.

7278   simchaland   2011 Jun 4, 1:11am  

Taxpayer, thanks for proving my point. I say no such thing as you allege. I don't imply it anywhere. I know your "point" is utter and complete nonsense and it's based on your delusional thinking that somehow I have agreed to your nonsensical position.

You prove you are delusional because you don't see that you are in fact in the top 1%.

You continue to whine about how unfair it is that "unfortunate" ultra rich people like you get taxed at all when you well know that you have plenty of ways to dodge paying even close to the same percentage of your fat income that the rest of us must pay. We pay more as a percentage of our income than you do. Your whining gets no sympathy from me and others who understand the tax system.

You don't even get taxed from Social Security or Medicare on most of your income. Almost 60% percent of your household income isn't taxed by Social Security and Medicare assuming there are 2 wage earners in your household and that all of your income is in the form of wages with none of it coming from capital gains.

You can't show where I ever agreed with you with any direct quote. Your sad attempt to use my words to attempt to support your hypothesis is null.

Taxes by their very nature aren't voluntary. If you don't like taxes move to some third world country where those who are super rich like you have arranged it so they pay no taxes. If you like living here benefiting from our country, then you are required to pay your taxes just like every other citizen.

I'm not impressed by your whining about having to pay taxes because you believe that somehow by virtue of being rich you should be exempt from paying taxes just like every other citizen.

Again, with every post you make you are showing that you have no credibility.

7279   simchaland   2011 Jun 4, 4:07am  

You know what? I'm starting to believe that conservatives use more mind altering substances than liberals. Well, though there could be an issue of increased mental illness among conservatives to explain the altered perception of reality. But if I were to assert this I'd be no better than some conservatives around here who assert that being a liberal is a mental illness. I don't want to stoop to that level so I'd rather believe that the altered perception of reality is self-induced through use of mind altering substances. Somehow that would seem less insulting to me.

7280   Done!   2011 Jun 4, 4:29am  

Sean7593 says

Threads like this are exactly why Patrick should have closed this site when the housing bubble popped back in 2007.

Seriously, folks. Move forward.

Beatings will continue until Morale improves.

7281   HousingWatcher   2011 Jun 4, 9:38am  

"Yes, I will pay for it myself."

For how long can you afford to pay $10,000 a month? My grandmother has been in a home now for 10 years. That is $1.2 million. Do you have that kind of money?

7282   elliemae   2011 Jun 4, 10:46am  

Maybe he'll write a check. ;)

7283   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jun 4, 11:06am  

Hey Ellie,

You are a riot. I dunno how you can keep your sanity living in that neck of the woods. (Maybe like my friends and I, you're not completely sane).

7284   pkennedy   2011 Jun 4, 11:25am  

Saudi Arabia fully understands that when people are spending $500/month on gas, they will think twice about the next car they buy, the next trip they take, the way they drive. Sure gas is expensive now, but it will almost invariably drop back down in price due to demand dropping.

But the habits, new cars and better driving style won't go away. People will continue to burn less gas, and the gas will cost less, meaning they earn even less than before.

They never recovered from the 70's embargo, and realized that people will change their habits. With so many options out there now, if the US population starts making just minor tweaks here and there, there will be a gas glut in the coming years, and possibly even more electric vehicles which won't require any of their oil (coal yes, nuclear yes, but no Saudi Oil!)

7285   kentm   2011 Jun 4, 12:49pm  

Taxpayer says

Again, I say that my basic point is that SS and medicare should be voluntary. Only those who clamor for it’s benefits need sign up. A percentage based premium (as medicare is right now) is discriminatory since one person could pay 3k per year and another person could pay 10k per year and both will get the same benefit.

this assumes that everyone has the best info about whats in their best interests at all times, right from the start. That the theoretical 'invisible hand' of the market - long since completely discredited - is somehow fully realized within each of us from the beginning of our careers... It also assumes that gov programs are merely an extension of each individual's will.

I think we as a culture have risen above that.

And yes, ellie is a riot.

7286   bob2356   2011 Jun 4, 2:27pm  

Taxpayer says

You don’t plan on seeking health care when your older? Your going to take out the check book and pay for a hip replacement or even a $10,000 a month nursing home?

Yes, I will pay for it myself.
There is this fundamental disconnect between govt revenues and govt expenditures. The govt collects the majority of the taxes (dollar amounts) from the wealthy. Yet the majority of it’s expenditures (SS and medicare) are aimed at the non-wealthy.

For someone who makes 500k by age 30 you sure don't seem to know what you are talking about. SS and medicare are funded by FICA which is only on wages (most of the income of the very wealthy is capital gains) and cuts off at 100k. So how do the "wealthy" pay the majority of SS and medicare? Only 20% of your income is subject to FICA, is that the "majority" in your world?

Of the general income tax (regular income taxes, corporate taxes, and capital gains) over 50% goes to the defense/military of some form, followed by medicaid, then interest on the debt. The entire rest of the government including all the "welfare programs" is run on what is left over after that. That certainly doesn't constitute the "majority" of expenditures going to the non wealthy (unless you consider the average defense contractor non wealthy) in any way shape or form.

Care to try again?

7287   marcus   2011 Jun 5, 2:03am  

Taxpayer says

There is this fundamental disconnect between govt revenues and govt expenditures. The govt collects the majority of the taxes (dollar amounts) from the wealthy. Yet the majority of it’s expenditures (SS and medicare) are aimed at the non-wealthy.

bob2356 says

For someone who makes 500k by age 30 you sure don’t seem to know what you are talking about. SS and medicare are funded by FICA which is only on wages (most of the income of the very wealthy is capital gains) and cuts off at 100k. So how do the “wealthy” pay the majority of SS and medicare? Only 20% of your income is subject to FICA, is that the “majority” in your world?

Taxpayer says

47% of the people in this country pay NO INCOME taxes. A majority of that 47% are the non-wealthy. I agree that there are a few wealthy tax dodgers in that 47%; but the majority of that is non-wealthy people. And those are the people benefiting from medicaid and all the welfare programs.

I feel like I am watching a battle of wits in which one of the sides is unarmed.

Taxpayer says

I am not a dogmatic person. If there was some counter argument in this discussion which was based on facts, I would have accepted that.

Ahhh. Good one.

7288   Â¥   2011 Jun 5, 2:16am  

Taxpayer says

Secondly, if everyone is getting the same medicare benefits, then everyone should pay a flat amount, say $2500 per year (irrespective of income); and not a discriminatory percentage based premium.

This is not a bad idea, actually. "All taxes come out of rents" -- you know the story.

Over $500,000 wage income. This is an odd form of compensation, we can really say that RayTaxpayer is "ballin'" in the current urban patois.

7289   Â¥   2011 Jun 5, 2:29am  

Taxpayer says

That is my point that SS and medicare should be voluntary.

I agree, people holding $1M in pension-fund quality assets should be allowed to stop contributing to SS/MC.

$1M at 5% throws off $50,000 in income, enough to cover the maximum SS benefit of $30,000 plus another $20,000 for medical coverage.

SS/MC doesn't have to be redistributive, really, the contributions of the middle class and upper middle class (people below the FICA cap) are the great bulk of contributors, losing the top 1-3% would not result in much loss of income, and what was lost will be made up by PPACA's premium subsidies anyway.

7290   FortWayne   2011 Jun 5, 3:44am  

pkennedy says

Saudi Arabia fully understands that when people are spending $500/month on gas, they will think twice about the next car they buy, the next trip they take, the way they drive. Sure gas is expensive now, but it will almost invariably drop back down in price due to demand dropping.

it never drops back permanently. it will probably go up from here over years until electric cars take over. at least historically gas prices never went and stayed low.

7291   tatupu70   2011 Jun 5, 3:54am  

Taxpayer says

Everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes.

Can I nominate this for the dumbest thing ever said on pat.net?

7292   Â¥   2011 Jun 5, 4:50am  

It's not a completely terrible idea. We'd need to shift more of government services to pay-for play.

The big problem though is "taxpayer"'s ideal is just your basic libertopia, where everyone has the freedom and rights they can afford to pay for, and not one. drop. more.

It is a joke and a complete non-starter of an ideology, though probably 40-50% of the rabid right argue it.

They're just doing this to pull the conversation to their extreme. Fuck that.

7293   elliemae   2011 Jun 5, 5:09am  

The problem that people have with Medicaid & SSI (cash income for the poor) as well as Direct Assistance is that they don't like paying for other people.

The alternative to leave them homeless & starving, without medical care. In our society, we try not to do that. We don't always succeed, but we try.

If we spent a little more $ on catching fraud, we'd save money in the long run. But Social Security & Medicare are both programs for which people pay all of their working lives, and the majority of people who have a problem with are those who make so much money they don't need the help. They collect it anyway, but they don't need it.

7294   Done!   2011 Jun 5, 6:09am  

Nader is NOT President. Obama did NOT give us a single payer system.

You think! Therefore it IS!

You Guys remind me of a Political Steven Hawkins who believes in infinite parallel universes, with infinite possibilities, anything from people made out of Cellophane Liquorish, to Gravity flows sideways. Anything but a Universe where there's a God.

You say you don't believe in fairy tales, when every day you write the book.

7295   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jun 5, 6:20am  

Hey F**ker,

there you go again.

It's Realtor®, remember?

7297   elliemae   2011 Jun 5, 6:27am  

shrekgrinch says

elliemae says


Just curious, how many of these jobs did you create?

What does that have to do with this? It won’t make the facts go away that you’d prefer go away.

Well, one could look at the article and say that many jobs have been created under Obama's administration and last month was an anonomly. One could also look at this posting as yet another piece of information shrek posted in an attempt to start a discussion as to why shrek hates the world.

It's not the facts that I would prefer go away.

7298   Done!   2011 Jun 5, 6:36am  

What's the point in discussing with these people shrenk?
They'll just distort what you say, post irrelevant anecdotes as proof positive then when you still don't see it there way, they'll attack your character, and mental state. And if you call them anything back they'll just get Patrick to flag your comments.

They get to say what they want with out any limits or constraints.

We have to be nice to Liars and Retards!

TOT signing OFF

7299   B.A.C.A.H.   2011 Jun 5, 6:36am  

type the character string "& reg ;" without the spaces between the "&", the "reg" and the ";"

7300   elliemae   2011 Jun 5, 6:41am  

According to most acceptable standards, it’s okay to post the headline and first paragraph and a link to the article. You may paraphrase articles as well - but if you post the entire article you are opening Patrick to a copyright lawsuit that could actually cost him thousands of dollars and the loss of his site.

Please keep in mind that we are here for free, it’s Patrick’s ass on the line. For further information, please refer to the following link:

http://www.vegastrademarkattorney.com/2010/08/avoiding-wrath-of-righthaven.html

7301   HousingWatcher   2011 Jun 5, 6:44am  

"So legislature passed more taxes without voter approval, which I believe is illegal in CA anyway."

Umm, no it is not. With a two thirds majority, the legislature does NOT need voter approval. Come on Chris, you should be ashamed that someone in NJ knows more about California govt. then you do.

7302   HousingWatcher   2011 Jun 5, 6:50am  

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 13 TAXATION

SEC. 2. The Legislature may provide for property taxation of all forms of tangible personal property, shares of capital stock, evidences of indebtedness, and any legal or equitable interest therein not exempt under any other provision of this article. The Legislature, two-thirds of the membership of each house concurring, may classify such personal property for differential taxation or for exemption. The tax on any interest in notes, debentures, shares of capital stock, bonds, solvent credits, deeds of trust, or mortgages shall not exceed four-tenths of one percent of full value, and the tax per dollar of full value shall not be higher on personal property than on real property in the same taxing jurisdiction.

--------------------

Nothing in there about voter approval

7303   Michinaga   2011 Jun 5, 6:56am  

Get a Mac, and hold down the option key while pressing R.

7304   elliemae   2011 Jun 5, 6:58am  

Michinaga says

Get a Mac, and hold down the option key while pressing R.

hahaha. My daughter makes fun of my pc all the time.

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