patrick.net

SF ace says

here is nothing gray about use tax. If it is taxable, it is taxed either as a sales tax or reciprical use tax. The difference is who is liable, seller or buyer.

Did you bother to read the link I posted? If not, I suggest reading the ruling in the last paragraph.

The legislature is promoting this as a way to benefit in-state businesses at the expense of inter-state commerce. It isn't the use tax, it is the intent, or what they claim the intent is. We both know it is for revenue, but the promotion of the idea that it will encourage people to buy from California businesses and discourage purchases from out of state businesses can clearly be interpreted as an attempt to interfere with interstate commerce.

state says

i dunno guys, gas in europe costs 8 bucks a gallon and yet somehow they survive

"All taxes come out of rents"

michaelsch says

ChrisLA says

we are doing the same. it is just insane how much it costs now. for me alone it costs around 500/month, my wife about half of that. ~40% of income is taxes, $750 on gas monthly. At this rate I haven’t bought anything yet or fed my family and already lost a huge chunk of my income. Lovely how this system works.

It makes no sense. 50mi to office is just 100 round trip. Assuming 22 business days it’s 2200 miles a month. To burn $500 a month you need a dinosaur that makes 18mpg on freeway.

This is Los Angeles traffic, it sometimes takes 10 to 15 minutes (or longer) just to go a mile. So 18mpg makes sense (*should be 28 without traffic), I don't even drive on weekends.

I will get a hybrid in a few years though to augment this situation.

Taxpayer, thanks for proving my point. I say no such thing as you allege. I don't imply it anywhere. I know your "point" is utter and complete nonsense and it's based on your delusional thinking that somehow I have agreed to your nonsensical position.

You prove you are delusional because you don't see that you are in fact in the top 1%.

You continue to whine about how unfair it is that "unfortunate" ultra rich people like you get taxed at all when you well know that you have plenty of ways to dodge paying even close to the same percentage of your fat income that the rest of us must pay. We pay more as a percentage of our income than you do. Your whining gets no sympathy from me and others who understand the tax system.

You don't even get taxed from Social Security or Medicare on most of your income. Almost 60% percent of your household income isn't taxed by Social Security and Medicare assuming there are 2 wage earners in your household and that all of your income is in the form of wages with none of it coming from capital gains.

You can't show where I ever agreed with you with any direct quote. Your sad attempt to use my words to attempt to support your hypothesis is null.

Taxes by their very nature aren't voluntary. If you don't like taxes move to some third world country where those who are super rich like you have arranged it so they pay no taxes. If you like living here benefiting from our country, then you are required to pay your taxes just like every other citizen.

I'm not impressed by your whining about having to pay taxes because you believe that somehow by virtue of being rich you should be exempt from paying taxes just like every other citizen.

Again, with every post you make you are showing that you have no credibility.

You know what? I'm starting to believe that conservatives use more mind altering substances than liberals. Well, though there could be an issue of increased mental illness among conservatives to explain the altered perception of reality. But if I were to assert this I'd be no better than some conservatives around here who assert that being a liberal is a mental illness. I don't want to stoop to that level so I'd rather believe that the altered perception of reality is self-induced through use of mind altering substances. Somehow that would seem less insulting to me.

Sean7593 says

Threads like this are exactly why Patrick should have closed this site when the housing bubble popped back in 2007.

Seriously, folks. Move forward.

Beatings will continue until Morale improves.

"Yes, I will pay for it myself."

For how long can you afford to pay $10,000 a month? My grandmother has been in a home now for 10 years. That is $1.2 million. Do you have that kind of money?

Maybe he'll write a check. ;)

Hey Ellie,

You are a riot. I dunno how you can keep your sanity living in that neck of the woods. (Maybe like my friends and I, you're not completely sane).

Saudi Arabia fully understands that when people are spending $500/month on gas, they will think twice about the next car they buy, the next trip they take, the way they drive. Sure gas is expensive now, but it will almost invariably drop back down in price due to demand dropping.

But the habits, new cars and better driving style won't go away. People will continue to burn less gas, and the gas will cost less, meaning they earn even less than before.

They never recovered from the 70's embargo, and realized that people will change their habits. With so many options out there now, if the US population starts making just minor tweaks here and there, there will be a gas glut in the coming years, and possibly even more electric vehicles which won't require any of their oil (coal yes, nuclear yes, but no Saudi Oil!)

Taxpayer says

Again, I say that my basic point is that SS and medicare should be voluntary. Only those who clamor for it’s benefits need sign up. A percentage based premium (as medicare is right now) is discriminatory since one person could pay 3k per year and another person could pay 10k per year and both will get the same benefit.

this assumes that everyone has the best info about whats in their best interests at all times, right from the start. That the theoretical 'invisible hand' of the market - long since completely discredited - is somehow fully realized within each of us from the beginning of our careers... It also assumes that gov programs are merely an extension of each individual's will.

I think we as a culture have risen above that.

And yes, ellie is a riot.

Taxpayer says

You don’t plan on seeking health care when your older? Your going to take out the check book and pay for a hip replacement or even a $10,000 a month nursing home?

Yes, I will pay for it myself.
There is this fundamental disconnect between govt revenues and govt expenditures. The govt collects the majority of the taxes (dollar amounts) from the wealthy. Yet the majority of it’s expenditures (SS and medicare) are aimed at the non-wealthy.

For someone who makes 500k by age 30 you sure don't seem to know what you are talking about. SS and medicare are funded by FICA which is only on wages (most of the income of the very wealthy is capital gains) and cuts off at 100k. So how do the "wealthy" pay the majority of SS and medicare? Only 20% of your income is subject to FICA, is that the "majority" in your world?

Of the general income tax (regular income taxes, corporate taxes, and capital gains) over 50% goes to the defense/military of some form, followed by medicaid, then interest on the debt. The entire rest of the government including all the "welfare programs" is run on what is left over after that. That certainly doesn't constitute the "majority" of expenditures going to the non wealthy (unless you consider the average defense contractor non wealthy) in any way shape or form.

Care to try again?

Taxpayer says

There is this fundamental disconnect between govt revenues and govt expenditures. The govt collects the majority of the taxes (dollar amounts) from the wealthy. Yet the majority of it’s expenditures (SS and medicare) are aimed at the non-wealthy.

bob2356 says

For someone who makes 500k by age 30 you sure don’t seem to know what you are talking about. SS and medicare are funded by FICA which is only on wages (most of the income of the very wealthy is capital gains) and cuts off at 100k. So how do the “wealthy” pay the majority of SS and medicare? Only 20% of your income is subject to FICA, is that the “majority” in your world?

Taxpayer says

47% of the people in this country pay NO INCOME taxes. A majority of that 47% are the non-wealthy. I agree that there are a few wealthy tax dodgers in that 47%; but the majority of that is non-wealthy people. And those are the people benefiting from medicaid and all the welfare programs.

I feel like I am watching a battle of wits in which one of the sides is unarmed.

Taxpayer says

I am not a dogmatic person. If there was some counter argument in this discussion which was based on facts, I would have accepted that.

Ahhh. Good one.

Taxpayer says

Secondly, if everyone is getting the same medicare benefits, then everyone should pay a flat amount, say $2500 per year (irrespective of income); and not a discriminatory percentage based premium.

This is not a bad idea, actually. "All taxes come out of rents" -- you know the story.

Over $500,000 wage income. This is an odd form of compensation, we can really say that RayTaxpayer is "ballin'" in the current urban patois.

Taxpayer says

That is my point that SS and medicare should be voluntary.

I agree, people holding $1M in pension-fund quality assets should be allowed to stop contributing to SS/MC.

$1M at 5% throws off $50,000 in income, enough to cover the maximum SS benefit of $30,000 plus another $20,000 for medical coverage.

SS/MC doesn't have to be redistributive, really, the contributions of the middle class and upper middle class (people below the FICA cap) are the great bulk of contributors, losing the top 1-3% would not result in much loss of income, and what was lost will be made up by PPACA's premium subsidies anyway.

pkennedy says

Saudi Arabia fully understands that when people are spending $500/month on gas, they will think twice about the next car they buy, the next trip they take, the way they drive. Sure gas is expensive now, but it will almost invariably drop back down in price due to demand dropping.

it never drops back permanently. it will probably go up from here over years until electric cars take over. at least historically gas prices never went and stayed low.

Taxpayer says

Everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes.

Can I nominate this for the dumbest thing ever said on pat.net?

It's not a completely terrible idea. We'd need to shift more of government services to pay-for play.

The big problem though is "taxpayer"'s ideal is just your basic libertopia, where everyone has the freedom and rights they can afford to pay for, and not one. drop. more.

It is a joke and a complete non-starter of an ideology, though probably 40-50% of the rabid right argue it.

They're just doing this to pull the conversation to their extreme. Fuck that.

The problem that people have with Medicaid & SSI (cash income for the poor) as well as Direct Assistance is that they don't like paying for other people.

The alternative to leave them homeless & starving, without medical care. In our society, we try not to do that. We don't always succeed, but we try.

If we spent a little more $ on catching fraud, we'd save money in the long run. But Social Security & Medicare are both programs for which people pay all of their working lives, and the majority of people who have a problem with are those who make so much money they don't need the help. They collect it anyway, but they don't need it.

Nader is NOT President. Obama did NOT give us a single payer system.

You think! Therefore it IS!

You Guys remind me of a Political Steven Hawkins who believes in infinite parallel universes, with infinite possibilities, anything from people made out of Cellophane Liquorish, to Gravity flows sideways. Anything but a Universe where there's a God.

You say you don't believe in fairy tales, when every day you write the book.

Hey F**ker,

there you go again.

It's Realtor®, remember?

... and up to half of those 54k 'new jobs' were at McDonalds:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/06/04/2011-06-04_mcdonalds_april_hiring_spree_could_have_accounted_for_half_of_mays_job_growth_re.html

shrekgrinch says

elliemae says

Just curious, how many of these jobs did you create?

What does that have to do with this? It won’t make the facts go away that you’d prefer go away.

Well, one could look at the article and say that many jobs have been created under Obama's administration and last month was an anonomly. One could also look at this posting as yet another piece of information shrek posted in an attempt to start a discussion as to why shrek hates the world.

It's not the facts that I would prefer go away.

What's the point in discussing with these people shrenk?
They'll just distort what you say, post irrelevant anecdotes as proof positive then when you still don't see it there way, they'll attack your character, and mental state. And if you call them anything back they'll just get Patrick to flag your comments.

They get to say what they want with out any limits or constraints.

We have to be nice to Liars and Retards!

TOT signing OFF

type the character string "& reg ;" without the spaces between the "&", the "reg" and the ";"

According to most acceptable standards, it’s okay to post the headline and first paragraph and a link to the article. You may paraphrase articles as well - but if you post the entire article you are opening Patrick to a copyright lawsuit that could actually cost him thousands of dollars and the loss of his site.

Please keep in mind that we are here for free, it’s Patrick’s ass on the line. For further information, please refer to the following link:

http://www.vegastrademarkattorney.com/2010/08/avoiding-wrath-of-righthaven.html

"So legislature passed more taxes without voter approval, which I believe is illegal in CA anyway."

Umm, no it is not. With a two thirds majority, the legislature does NOT need voter approval. Come on Chris, you should be ashamed that someone in NJ knows more about California govt. then you do.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 13 TAXATION

SEC. 2. The Legislature may provide for property taxation of all forms of tangible personal property, shares of capital stock, evidences of indebtedness, and any legal or equitable interest therein not exempt under any other provision of this article. The Legislature, two-thirds of the membership of each house concurring, may classify such personal property for differential taxation or for exemption. The tax on any interest in notes, debentures, shares of capital stock, bonds, solvent credits, deeds of trust, or mortgages shall not exceed four-tenths of one percent of full value, and the tax per dollar of full value shall not be higher on personal property than on real property in the same taxing jurisdiction.

--------------------

Nothing in there about voter approval

Get a Mac, and hold down the option key while pressing R.

Michinaga says

Get a Mac, and hold down the option key while pressing R.

hahaha. My daughter makes fun of my pc all the time.

® Easy on the Mac...®!

Ellie, I love my Mac because I can type *anything*: hačeks, ümlauts*, çedillas; you name it!

¡Viva Mac!

(The word umlaut doesn't actually have an umlaut in it. Büt it shöuld.)

shrekgrinch says

That’s what happens when the country is run on a national policy of pissing on the value of the dollar

This country desperately needs a weaker dollar so we can get some exports going again.

Problem is we can't afford the more expensive oil that comes with a weaker dollar.

Gold *should* be at least $2000 -- that would give our wage labor a 30% comparative boost vs the ROW.

Failing that, we should just start erecting trade barriers against countries with large surpluses against us, relative to the size of the surplus.

Or we could go with a stronger dollar and see productive goods-producing employment continue to crater, and our capacity either going unused or exported to the cheap labor countries.

But these trade deficits are unsustainable. Something's going to have to give here.

Apocolypsefuck, will you please delete the article except for the first paragraph and put a link to the site where you found it?

There's a company called Righthaven that's suing for, and winning, thousands of dollars in damages. We like being here, and would hate to have to help Patrick raise $20k or more to defend a lawsuit.

Thanks.PasadenaNative says

® Easy on the Mac…®!

Michinaga says

¡Viva Mac!

Rub it in! I can take it! But next time I'm buying a Mac. ;)

Troy says

we can’t afford the more expensive oil that comes with a weaker dollar

Baloney. Bubba can just park the SUV in the driveway more often and drive his smaller car instead more often.

And Bubba can carpool. Besides spending less on gasoline, he'll be spending less on wear and tear.

Bubba can lose a little weight so that higher temps will be more tolerable, so he can turn down the AC. Or maybe even turn it off and get some fresh air for a change.

Problem solved.

Hey shrek,

how many voters are you minting?

sybrib says

Problem solved.

except for cross-country airfares.

Maybe airlines should charge by the pound, say $500 plus $2 per pound of stuff you're putting on the plane, including yourself.

I don't think the quality of life in North America was worse when only the elite could afford air travel.

Some people would argue those were halcyon days when a working class family could live comfortably on one income.

Except for medical flights, and an unfortunate sudden need to travel to a funeral, airline transport is discretionary. That'd include business travel, too. Why else do businesses "clamp down" on travel as the first cost reduction measure? Corporations with global reach did very well, thank you very much, in the days of yore when only the very top management traveled by air. And that was before video conferencing.

We could have well over 90% of commercial aviation operations cease and be no worse off for it. Except for the airline employees and leisure travel destinations like Hawaii.

shrekgrinch says

I am not minting any

Ceratinly not enough for the demographics to sustain your politics in the future.

Same for Europe.

We're not too many generations away from knowing it as "The Islamic Republic of Europe".

shrekgrinch says

This entire posting is ridiculous. And who cares what the morons in SF do to themselves? This is only dangerous if enacted at the state level, INMO. The people of SF get what they deserve for being as wacked-up as their politicians.

We all know that legislation at the local level never finds its way to state and federal politics. And that each person in SF supports every piece of legislation there, just as every person who lives in Fremont supports every piece of legislation that emanates from there.

Just curious, shrek. Is it because you aren't directly affected by the proposed legislation that you deemed it to be "ridiculous," or is it because you can't make this a political issue?

The forum is Miscellaneous, and not "What Shrek believes is important."

shrekgrinch says

And last time I checked, many circumcisions don’t have to be performed right after the brat is popped out.

Kudos on your compassion, shrek.