patrick.net

No

Yes, but how is Europe's GDP per capita distributed? Is it all in the hands of 5% of the continent?

Exactly, shrekgrinch.

I think if you added one additional factor to the monopoly game it would be closer. Create another player seperate from the banker. This additonal player has the ability to change the rules as they see fit and print as much extra monopoly money whlie giving it to players of their choosing.

That's probably closer to the truth.

The article didn't mention any kind of correction for taxes. WTF, most of Europe uses VAT taxes that are much higher than US sales taxes so your PPP would be lower. The study includes countries like Italy, Greece, and others where at least half the economy is underground making the GDP much lower. The average doctor in Greece makes something like 20k on the books. Where is the correction for this very well know problem? It doesn't talk about corrections for all the newly admitted poor countries from eastern Europe either. All in all a bunch of statistical BS to make an ideological point.

Of course look at the source, a bunch of wall street guys tooting the American system wall street style. You know, private profits to banksters, public pays loses. The new American way.

In the simpliest sense yes. Unless the rich player is allowed to hide their money or walk off your game with his money and start playing on another board.

That is probably why my grandfather used to say, "Don't trust bankers, lawyers, or politicians."

Yes, if you are explaining this to a 7th grader.

The richest player would probably do a cost analysis and see if it is cheaper to cash in with the bank or contribute money to the 2nd bankers campaign fund to exhert influence.

Red Alert, some adults have been let loose in Sacramento.
Just days after Gov. Jerry Brown vetoed the state budget, lawmakers in California took another hit Tuesday when Controller John Chiang concluded that they will lose their pay because their spending plan was incomplete and unbalanced.
The controller's decision means that each of the state's 120 legislators will permanently lose about $400 a day until they pass a balanced spending plan.
I was surprised no one started a Jerry! thread last week.

shrekgrinch says

ChrisLA says

I know a lot of them got burned when they bought stuff in our neighborhood and prices declined another 20% while they were trying to make a profit. They are still disgusting middle men.

Ok, you seem to contradict yourself by simultaneously trashing them while also proving that the market system is working by transmitting pain to them as well. The latter is a good thing and the only thing that will stop them.

How is this contradictory?

Good quotes. Especially the last one about being a free man. Lately we Americans became weak, we trade freedoms for temporary conveniences and at the end end up with nothing.

C'mon you guys, Shrek wanted to talk about his bs definition of Luddite, and the awesome strawman he got off the right wing blogosphere.

Yep--Shrek is probably gone from this thread now too. He posted his right wing talking points for today. He'll be back tomorrow for another batch.

They have consistently proven an ability to convince a devoted fanbase to pay a premium price for every one of their products. It remains to be seen whether they can keep that magic formula, or become just another device maker.

I gave up on them after my fourth iPod bit the dust.

twd000 says

They have consistently proven an ability to convince a devoted fanbase to pay a premium pric

yeah,
like the Dotcom Bubble,
Housing Bubble,
China Bubble,
now the Apple Bubble.

"Wall Street is being investigated, but they are not asleep while it's being done. You see where the Senate took that tax off the sales of stocks, didn't you? Saved 'em $48,000,000. Now, why don't somebody investigate the Senate and see who got to them to get that tax removed? That would be a real investigation." DT #1803, May 4, 1932

"There is two things that can disrupt business in this country. One is war and the other is a meeting of the Federal Reserve (Board)." DT #837, April 2, 1929

How is this different than today? Looks like business as usual, retro-style...

I don't think Apple is a bubble. They are more like a juggernaut. But, history shows nothing lasts forever.

Luddites? Obama administration has an Android app.

Obama carries a BlackOpsBerry though, maybe that's what has Shrek in a twist.

I thought Tom Hanks was responsible for the collapse of the SovU.

Well I'll be knackered.

clambo says

I don’t think Apple is a bubble. They are more like a juggernaut. But, history shows nothing lasts forever.

Yep, fill in the blank:

I don't think (blank) is a bubble. They are more like a juggernaut.

(Disclosure: typing this on an APPL product).

Yes, SG, interesting.

thunderlips11 says

It was the price of Crude, reverses in Afghanistan - not ramping up Pentagon Spending - that brought down the Soviet Union.

Interesting thesis, but complex systems are not always cleanly distilled into single (or a few), simple variables...

thunderlips11 says

They also realized that they had to attempt to raise the standard of living in the Soviet Union by producing more consumer goods. To do this, they needed cash from the sale of Russian Oil to Western Nations to buy modern equipment.

How much money were they spending on their military at that time? What prevented this money from being routed into domestic spending? I think that ongoing MAD and the arms race did play a part in reducing the amount of money the USSR had available for improving the quality of life for the proletariat.

terriDeaner says

Interesting thesis, but complex systems are not always cleanly distilled into single (or a few), simple variables…

True. My goal here is to suggest the "80's military spending" was only "one factor", and wasn't the main cause, as many prefer to believe. Humans in general like to believe their positive actions got them rewards, and negative events happen to them.

I earned an A (Nevermind the 30 point curve) on the Test; Teacher gave me a D (nevermind I didn't study).

I heard of this Theory a while ago, now I am actually reading a book contrasting the Soviet Collapse with the US in 2010 by Dmitry Orlov. I'll report some of his evidence as I get deeper into it, but I think he believes that military spending was also a factor as well, just not the main one.

Another interesting theory is the "Bury you in your own Trash" or "Buy from the Capitalist the Rope you Hang him With" - an idea that the Soviets considered but never were capable of pulling off: Borrow huge sums from the US, flood them with oil or cheap chotskies, use the cash to modernize, then, at a key moment, default and oil embargo. The Chinese may be running a variant of this - lend huge sums, the American's own money actually, by flooding them with goods and making them dependent on your supply, then at a key moment, stop buying debt and demand economic control.

Of course, this all remains to be seen...

I would have to go back and read this subject so I don't have any references at this point. I haven't done it for a while. The military industrial complex and their space program was a big drain on their economy.

I am pretty sure oil profits they were recieving before cheap Saudi Oil came in was propping up their military. The military industrial complex was also a big part of their economy. Many Soviet business's stayed afloat through military production of weapons, aircraft, and vehicles.

However, we must step back and look at the big picture. Even I must do this. The failure of the USSR was their weak socialist economic system. China, North Korea, and Cuba all suffered as well. However, China has created a hybrid socialist country at this time.

Reagan used every tool avialable to put pressure on the Soviet union. He succeeded even at the resistance from people within his administration. The speech at the Berlin Wall didn't really "tear down that wall," but it did provide Reagan with popular US support.

Reagan's policies were a factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union. You can't deny it. That's similar to saying that the Soviet's socialist economy wasn't a factor in the fall of the USSR.

I will say that I am not a college history major and by no means a USSR expert. So, take my comments lightly. I just like firing the "Reagan destroyed the U.S.S.R." statement like others who fire the "Reagan destroyed the U.S." statement.

"Borrow huge sums from the US, flood them with oil or cheap chotskies, use the cash to modernize, then, at a key moment, default and oil embargo. The Chinese may be running a variant of this - lend huge sums, the American’s own money actually, by flooding them with goods and making them dependent on your supply, then at a key moment, stop buying debt and demand economic control."

Very, very good point.

Vicente says

I thought Tom Hanks was responsible for the collapse of the SovU.

Well I’ll be knackered.

You got it all wrong - it was Clint Eastwood flying the jet that knew how to read commands from his brain but only in Russian.

Sean Connery did his part by defecting and bringing the Red October over as well.

I don't understand this. Here are a couple questions for starters.

How is the PPP adjustment made? Some details on that would be helpful. Is this mostly about how much higher their cost of living is ?

Also, weren't health care costs done without the PPP adjustment ? I recall their health care system costs nearly half ours, as a percentage of GDP. It's something like, our health care is 16% of GDP, and theirs is in the neighborhood of 9%. But if our GDP buys so much more (in terms of cost of living), then that means, (in a sense) that they are delivering health care even cheaper, if viewed in terms of American income and PP.

IT would be interesting to see and understand the details.

Just think how well China and India must be doing (relative to PPP), since vast segments of their populations can live on few dollars a day.

EightBall says

Vicente says

I thought Tom Hanks was responsible for the collapse of the SovU.
Well I’ll be knackered.

You got it all wrong - it was Clint Eastwood flying the jet that knew how to read commands from his brain but only in Russian.
Sean Connery did his part by defecting and bringing the Red October over as well.

No, really it was the speech Rocky gave after he defeated Ivan Drago.

danacebi says

I’ll keep this in mind next time some idiot prattles on about how ‘bad’ things are over there, how us merrikans are soooo much better as a bunch of wage slave debt serfs with no healthcare, vacation time or retirement.

Yes, take it to the bank. In fact maybe buy yourself a vacation or two, some health care, a college education for your child, or a pension to celebrate this new found "knowledge."

So, I'm not US Poor... I'm Euro rich. I'm gonna buy me a silly hat and walk around pretending to speak a foreign language - with an entourage.

wormwood - does a porn magazine count as a book? 'cause if it does, I know many scholars.

shrekgrinch says

‘Course, I have to read about this from a Brit source. Our media is so lame at doing even the basics of their jobs — uh, actual reporting.

June 21 - NY Times, followed by other articles. Besides, everything is instantly available in this internet age. Who cares who reported it first?

Another example of your knee-jerk reaction to just about everything.

Vicente says

I thought Tom Hanks was responsible for the collapse of the SovU.

What movie was that from???

I personally give these guys some credit as well:

Naturally, the voters had to pass that common sense legislation.

CA, the state owned by the drug habit of unionization.

And what about these guys?

Truthplease says

“Borrow huge sums from the US, flood them with oil or cheap chotskies, use the cash to modernize, then, at a key moment, default and oil embargo. The Chinese may be running a variant of this - lend huge sums, the American’s own money actually, by flooding them with goods and making them dependent on your supply, then at a key moment, stop buying debt and demand economic control.”

Very, very good point.

Agreed.

Because he invented the Scanner?

Is it too late to short Greece?

I've always liked Will Rogers. A true Democrat.