patrick.net

theoakman says

In nearly every other case where the masses lifted themselves out of poverty through capitalism, it took a few years.

What are these other cases? How do they compare to China?

Bill Jack says

But when someone still wants to refute documents coming straight out of the United Nations, what does that make that person? Paid for, perhaps?

I'm not refuting anything. Because you haven't presented your case yet. All you are doing is posting links. For something this important, I would think you could take the time to write a couple of paragraphs explaining what is going on...

Read this interesting article...

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-12-21/sec-probes-chinese-reverse-mergers-and-their-u-s-auditors.html

Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- The Securities and Exchange Commission, as part of a broader probe of China-based companies listed on U.S. stock exchanges and their auditors, sanctioned a California audit firm for signing off on fraudulent financial statements made by a Chinese energy company.

Moore Stephens Wurth Frazer & Torbet LLP of Orange County is one of several firms that have fallen under the SEC’s scrutiny for signing the financial statements of China-based firms accessing U.S. capital markets through so-called reverse mergers. In a reverse merger, a closely held company acquires a publicly traded company and can then sell shares without an initial public offering.

if they let yuan float you can make a really good return. but its a huge gamble.

More places to buy the yuan coming to the US I've heard. Has anyone seen it places where yuan accounts can be opened?

If I had a lot of money to preserve, I would buy Swiss Francs and/or a gold ETF based on physical gold. (ZKBGF)
If I have money I wish to invest to appreciate capital, I would buy stocks.
If I have money I wish to get income from, I would buy bonds.
If I were rich, I would have a house in Carmel, and I would visit China to have fun Have no doubt, the average person in China is a poor slob wondering how to achieve a decent life, in a game that is stacked against him.
I guess I wandered off the subject. I would in theory like to make currency trades, but I am too afraid and lazy to learn the ropes.

"China made socialism work", this is incorrect. There is actually NO social safety net in China. The Chinese government has decided that building infrastructure and growing the economy is preferable to spending gazillions on welfare, health programs, etc. Europe and Mexico are socialist, not China. Chinese are well aware there is no social safety net for them, it's every man for himself.

This boost may help the yuan:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-to-boost-yuan-to-fight-inflation-rhodes-2011-04-12

http://seekingalpha.com/article/264555-china-revaluation-certainly-on-the-table?source=yahoo

tatupu70 says

Bill Jack says

But when someone still wants to refute documents coming straight out of the United Nations, what does that make that person? Paid for, perhaps?

I’m not refuting anything. Because you haven’t presented your case yet. All you are doing is posting links. For something this important, I would think you could take the time to write a couple of paragraphs explaining what is going on…

I have to agree with Tatupu on this one. I find it a little bit frustrating that you seem to believe strongly in some position, but all you are willing to do is post some links and profess how incontrovertible your position is. I did go (start) to read your links, and after about 5 minutes I was still asking myself "what's is the position?" I'm trying not to dismiss it out of hand, but you aren't helping.

A good example to follow would be Troy on these forums. He holds some non-mainstream ideas, and is more than willing to produce sources and other references, but he also willingly (and intelligently) engages in dialogue (if one-sided and heavy-handed at times). This does two things, for me. One, it helps by distilling a position into an accessible and concise read...two, it demonstrates that the person pushing the position can actually think and is willing to discuss (and defend) their claimed position.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to ante up.

-s

This story in about Hong Kong:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/soaring-yuan-deposits-in-hong-kong-2011-05-15

I would prefer to have Swiss Francs but I don't believe there is a problem having a bunch of Yuan if you have already lots of capital to preserve. I believe there is a Chinese bank in the USA somehwere and you can have Yuan on deposit there?
But, why let capital sit idle and not make either 1. interest 2. dividends 3. appreciate?
If I were very rich, I'd have a Swiss Franc account to preserve some of my wealth. The rest I would buy bonds and dividend paying stocks. For fun I'd buy a growth stock or two.

Another link:

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/112988/investors-bet-yuan-marketwatch?mod=bb-budgeting%20%20%20&sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode=

I think the yen and Asia currencies will hold or gain against the US dollar (not sayng much, though).

SHANGHAI (MarketWatch) -- China's central bank said Wednesday it will suspend its regular open market operation Thursday, in an apparent response to the tight liquidity conditions in the banking system.

The move came as China's interbank funding rate has risen sharply since Tuesday last week, when the People's Bank of China said it would raise banks' reserve requirement ratio by half a percentage point to address inflation concerns by locking up liquidity in the banking system. The increase, which took effect Monday, was the sixth such hike this year.

The interbank weighted average seven day repo, a benchmark gauge of short-term interbank funding costs, ended at 8.81% Wednesday, the highest rate since October 2007. It has risen 463 basis points in the past six sessions.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/pboc-to-suspend-market-operations-thursday-2011-06-22

Getting interesting!

Yes, I think this is a big story (China suspending bond offering). Here is more on that topic

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/china-will-suspend-open-market-operations-tomorrow-response-liquidity-freeze

"It is difficult for the central bank to find enough demand for its short-term bill offering amid the severe liquidity squeeze in the money market. If it persisted with the three-month bill offering tomorrow, the yield would jump again, adding pressure to the central bank's operating costs," said a Shanghai-based trader with a local bank."

(Side observation: Note how it appears from the above that in China the BOC central bank issues bonds, rather than having a Treasury Department do it. Or maybe it is that BOC is the only "primary dealer". These technicalities may be significant).

Anyhow, this cannot be good news for China. Is the Great Bubble about to burst?

Interesting times.
He sits on the board of directors of Xiniya Fashions, a Chinese retailer with 1,400 shops. He says Chinese consumers pay up to $25 for polo shirts at Xiniya (pronounced Zenya), well above the $15 the same shirts sell for in the U.S.

Even with rebates that Chinese manufacturers get for exporting, that $25 domestic price makes them less willing to accept the price cuts that used to be a standard part of their business, Mr. McGrath says: "They can make more money by selling it to the Chinese market."

justme says

(Side observation: Note how it appears from the above that in China the BOC central bank issues bonds, rather than having a Treasury Department do it. Or maybe it is that BOC is the only “primary dealer”. These technicalities may be significant).

Anyhow, this cannot be good news for China. Is the Great Bubble about to burst?

Most interesting.

EBGuy says

He sits on the board of directors of Xiniya Fashions, a Chinese retailer with 1,400 shops. He says Chinese consumers pay up to $25 for polo shirts at Xiniya (pronounced Zenya), well above the $15 the same shirts sell for in the U.S.

Interesting indeed. That's like Japanese consumer goods.

As exports falter, construction tapers off, and corruption grows. The face of China we don't get to see much of:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/22/inside-china-508460494/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/16/china-riots-taizhou
http://www.tibetanreview.net/news.php?&id=9096

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehkFdOzozQ0

How will the recent sell off and bounce affect this?

Allegedly, China government is a bunch of crooks who live by their lies. I will never trust my money with their government or their banks. Fucking 30 years ago, we want to kill them communists pricks, now we want to depend our financial futures on them, what the fuck?!

Never mind that China Govt is a bunch of crooks...can you tell the difference between real Yuan vs fake.

Sep 9, 2009 – Police have seized 684 million yuan of fake banknotes and ... $26m fake banknotes seized in China 3619 suspects arrested for fake notes ...

MarkInSF says

Goal is to diffuse criticism of closed capital markets.

It's a shitty deal. The interest paid is well below their inflation rate. I'll take 1% on my USD thank you very much.

It's still an EXTREMELY closed, controlled economy. Outsiders can't own land, or most stocks or bonds. The only reason China can own so much treasury debt is we let anybody buy it. China does not offer the same openness.

MarkInSF says

Goal is to diffuse criticism of closed capital markets.

It's not as closed as what you might think. There are things they outright block. A foreign company cannot open up and make weapons. But they have no problem with other goods. You don't pay taxes for three years and for awhile you could daisy chain companies to spin off and then end to get six or maybe eight years off of it.

Most do not want to work for Chinese companies they want to work for more western once since they are known for OT, vacation, sick time etc.

In terms of owning stocks and bonds well an argument can be made that even in the west we don't own land since we have to pay taxes on it. Hong kong was just a 99 year lease that ended..the government does not have that much control over things day to day..there's just way too many people and the country is too large to try to police everything.

It's funny because they just caught people in HK smuggling apple products to the mainland..it's on the same level of buying tobacco from reservations in the US.

Actually, I currently have no Chinese yuan myself, just in case anyone was wondering (and haven't for years).

That they are crooked, socialists, fascist slavers is irrelevant.

What you need to know about investing in the Yuan is this:

> M2 money supply rose 13.6 percent from a year earlier, the central bank said.

(assuming you believe them). (and that's a credit crunch in Chinese terms).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-15/china-new-loans-trail-estimates-as-money-supply-growth-slows.html

Thanks for the information above!