patrick.net

dude, you are wrong.
God's law is OT and was verbal for centuries until sumerians wrote it down ... the first thing they wrote too ... weird.
Catholic is just a bunch of man rules. It has no special place in God's Church.
I do not see were I mentioned Revelations in any post. God's Law was first, that I did say. Greeks wrote lots of stuff, so what?

What is "my religion" dude?

Bellingham Bill says

elliemae says

his isn't just an explanation of mormonism or scientology - it's also easily applied to christianity and basically all other religions.

even in their own scripture this Jesus guy doesn't say anything about a lot of the stuff present-day Christianists want to legislate.

And much of the stuff he does talk about explicitly, they call Godless socialism.

Go figure.

“Nessuna soluzione . . . nessun problema!„

Bap33 says

I don't want to legislate anything.
Can you give some examples?

still waiting

Just to clarify, I said, "this isn't just an explanation..."

Not "his isn't..."

My point was that I'll follow God's law as soon as he appears in front of me and explains what the law is. My beliefs are very real to me - just as your religious beliefs are real to you, Bap. They're not right or wrong, they're personal beliefs.

I try not to get into religious conversations, because imho religions are often a competition about who is the more reverant. Religions are also a way to feel superior. In order for one to believe that their religion is the "true" one, he must believe that all others aren't "true." Praising God is an asinine way to feel superior to someone.

If there is a God, he's hovering over the "Shit on This Attitude" button on his own patnet.

Bap33 says

still waiting

And I am still waiting for your answer on what of god's laws are impossible for you to follow?

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

I never, ever, ever, suggested that it was possible to follow God's Law, as I firmly believe MAN can't do it.

What of god's law do you find impossible to follow?

Bap33 says

What is "my religion" dude?

Hmmm... I am guessing fundamental christian juggalo.

Bap33 says

What is "my religion" dude?

Some sort of fundamentalist Christian from your posts here. Aka derived from Catholicism.

corntrollio says

Bap33 says

What is "my religion" dude?

Some sort of fundamentalist Christian from your posts here. Aka derived from Catholicism.

are you suggesting that Christianity comes from Catholicism?

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

still waiting

And I am still waiting for your answer on what of god's laws are impossible for you to follow?

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

I never, ever, ever, suggested that it was possible to follow God's Law, as I firmly believe MAN can't do it.

What of god's law do you find impossible to follow?

I'm sorry my answer was mixed in the stuff, but what I suggest is this: All of the laws must be followed, and falling short by even a little itty bitty bit on any one law results in total failure ... If we fall short on one or half or all, the results are the same, total failure. But, I also understand what you are getting at, and I would say I could not follow the law aginst murder, adultry, and keeping the sabbath. As for other folks, it is hard to say. But, nobody has been able to do it, or will. I say that based on the detailed examples given by Jesus, explaining how man can't do it. That is why Jesus had to come, you know the story? Besides, I don't know of anyone able to follow Gods laws.

"To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine, The Crisis

elliemae says

Just to clarify, I said, "this isn't just an explanation..."

Not "his isn't..."

My point was that I'll follow God's law as soon as he appears in front of me and explains what the law is. My beliefs are very real to me - just as your religious beliefs are real to you, Bap. They're not right or wrong, they're personal beliefs.

I try not to get into religious conversations, because imho religions are often a competition about who is the more reverant. Religions are also a way to feel superior. In order for one to believe that their religion is the "true" one, he must believe that all others aren't "true." Praising God is an asinine way to feel superior to someone.

If there is a God, he's hovering over the "Shit on This Attitude" button on his own patnet.

Eschew Obfuscation

You are 100% correct on much of this. "Religion" is a man made thing, and that's why it fails. God did not make religion, man did. And that is why there are 800 different slices of the same loaf of bread. It is very silly, really, but in the quest for power/glory/money/whatever some men just started picking apart God's word to create their own niche. Silly men, messed it up.
Your view of wanting to hear and see what God wants from you - right from the horses mouth - is not rare. So far, you have been blessed by being born into freedom, safety, and health. That alone puts your existance into a minority of humanity. You can speak about religion or politics at will -- that is an even smaller minority. And, assuming your on-line persona matches the real world, you are a female with the power and wealth needed to have time and money for entertainment, such as net access and a home computer and the free time to enjoy them both .. an even smaller minority of humanity. It may be that God has blessed you to give you the chance to find him and share him with those less lucky than you. This era, this location, this time in man's existance, these will never be the same again. You have a very unique view, but it was provided for you. You have a very unique position in humanity, but you did not put yourself here. You only control the choices you make.

And hovering over the button .. excellant image. I kinda see a DEL/ALT/ESC pose with Earth on the screen ... lol

Bap33 says

Catholic is just a bunch of man rules. It has no special place in God's Church.

As a Catholic, I find offense in that statement. However, you are entitled to your opinion. The Catholic Church is the first Christian church founded by Jesus through St. Peter. Even though I participate in the Church because I believe that it is good as a whole, they will not sway my mind on certain topics.

We won't really find out until it is your time to die. Until then, believe whatever you want and try to live the best life you can.

leoj707 says

You only have time to grab one. What do you do?

That's an Easy one, I'd get the hell out of there.

Bap33 says

...I would say I could not follow the law aginst murder, adultry, and keeping the sabbath.

Ummm... so... who have you murdered? Have been convicted, or did you "get away with it?"

***on a side note, as forum participants are we legally obligated to report this confession?***

And, please tell me that your penchant for fucking other peoples spouses (adultery) is not related to the murdering.

Bap33 says

I say that based on the detailed examples given by Jesus, explaining how man can't do it.

Interesting I am unaware of these detailed examples can you post a bible reference where Jesus says no may is capable of following god's law?

Bap33 says

All of the laws must be followed, and falling short by even a little itty bitty bit on any one law results in total failure

Right, from what I understand this is totally consistent with the bible.

So, what you are saying is that a person who eats a lobster (Leviticus 11:12) is just as guilty of breaking god's law as the person who rapes and murders children? Both go to hell, right?

Also, what you are saying is that no one is capable of following god's law. So, everyone goes to hell? (except Jesus of course)

I just want to make sure that I am understanding your position.

I have to say that I disagree on the ability of people to follow god's law. I think that if you were to go through the bible and list all of the "laws" you would find that many people --even many non-christians-- follow the laws, and an even greater number could with a few tweaks --i.e. not eating shellfish, wearing cotton wool blends, etc.-- would find their lives in perfect harmony with god's law.

I do understand that some people --like yourself perhaps-- have... certain... compulsions... and they cannot resist. I know that as humans it is often difficult to see the world through the eyes of another, but what you should probably understand is that others do not feel compelled to murder, cheat on their spouses, fuck married people or break any of the other, more damaging to society, laws of god.

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

...I would say I could not follow the law aginst murder, adultry, and keeping the sabbath.

Ummm... so... who have you murdered? Have been convicted, or did you "get away with it?"

Bap33, as your attorney, I advise you not to answer this question or any others.

Your honor, I submit that there is amble evidence on patrick.net to support my client's plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, and I move to dismiss the trial and relocate my client to Arkham Asylum in lieu of police custody.

Dan8267 says

Your honor, I submit that there is amble evidence on patrick.net to support my client's plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, and I move to dismiss the trial and relocate my client to Arkham Asylum in lieu of police custody.

See, my guess on Bap's religion is does not seem so funny now...

leoj707 says

Bap33 says

What is "my religion" dude?

Hmmm... I am guessing fundamental christian juggalo.

I am guessing this will be the first poster on his cell wall:

Also, if I remember correctly there is another clown in Arkham Asylum that will keep him company.

elliemae says

Then throw the live baby covered in test tubes out the window and it'll be caught by the fire department that is waiting outside.

I like the way you think outside the box.

Bap33 says

are you suggesting that Christianity comes from Catholicism?

Well, there's also the Orthodox/Catholic split to consider, but hell yeah it does. Every Protestant faith was spun out of Catholicism. The bible covers this too -- St. Peter, the rock on which the church was built (aka Cephas in Greek).

I realize that fundies have a big problem with Catholics and have run across fundamentalist preachers saying insane stuff about Catholics before, so that's why I asked.

Also, if we're going to talk about stuff in the bible people violate all the time -- Deut. 22:11 about wearing two different fabrics.

leo,
you jumped all over there, so I have to tug you back a bit. The law is still in effect, every part, but the "reason" for the law was shared when Jesus showed up to tell the legalistic minds of his day that they were missing the point entirely. They were busy reading the OT and killing birds and caves to cover their sins (individual sacrafice was still needed), and did not understand what God had in mind for his people. At least, that's how I understand the Gospels to come about.

The Levitican laws not only detailed infractions, but also detailed compensation and punishment. If one checks it out, they will find that those who are put in charge of carrying out the law are held to a high standard.

Anyways, Jesus was the perfect sacrafice. His death covers the debt that all other men owe to God for not following the law. No more need to kill birds and cows when we sin. Now, when I say "all other men", that kinda is a tuff detail that I have my own thoughts about, but there are lots and lots of differing opinions. I do not beleive one must be dunked in a river to be saved from Hell. Some do. I do not believe there is any reason to pray to anyone but God (as the Law says and Jesus coached). Some pray to saints, virgins, and realitives trapped in a place they call Purgatory. The Bible I have, a KJV, says that those things are not right, and should not be done.

(this should fall under - "I think")The Levitican laws were for God's people (Hebrew/Jew?call what you wish). Those Jews that do not beleive the Jesus was the savior are still under that old law and better be following the rules and killing birds and cows and lambs and such. THe punishment for sins, like killing a male that is a sexual deviant, are not carried out by the state, and the people are under the laws of the state, so that part should not be held to them. But, I'm not sure, maybe they will be held accountable for not thowing off a Gov that refuses to follow the law(?). I'm pretty sure that is why that Roman judge had the Jews punish Jesus. The Roman law did not demand Jesus be put to death for claiming to be God, but the Levitican law demanded it. So, here in America, an old fashioned Jew is in a tuff spot. Unless the Jewish community has a full sub-set of leaders and laws and follow their own laws while in America.... kinda like the Indian Nation has in some states. I don't know if that exists anywhere. The arbas are better at getting a sub-set of laws acknowledged by American rulers, it seems.

As for my pointing out the laws I think I cant follow, my answer is based on the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said if you even get pissed at you brother and call him a fool, you have commited murder ... something about any hate in your heart is a bad thing. And Jesus said if you just lust at another woman with only your eyes, you commit adultery in your heart ... something about your soul will burn with that desire, making the act a very real possibility. And I do not keep the 7th day, Saturday, seperate for just the worship of God, and I sometimes actively try to earn money on that day. On this one Jesus made the legalistic Jews look stupid. They were able to keep Saturdays open because they lived in a mixed society, where non Jews could pick up any slack. So, they were used to sitting around doing nothing on Saturdays. They figured this made them holy or something. Anyways, on Saturday, just to piss off the legalistic Jews, Jesus would go to work, teaching folks on Satuday. His point was, they missed what it was God really had in mind for man on the 7th day. And now-a-days most religions focus on Sunday, and each has some reason. The fact is, the way I understand it, is GOd wanted us to bust ass for 6 days and be productive, and then kick back and rest one day to rest, enjoy life, play with our kids, paint an old ladies house for free, stuff like that. Work for 6, rest for 1. I do not think God really cares which of the 7 days you pick, just pick one and enjoy the blessing he gives you. That 7th day may be spent changing plugs in the pick-up, but that's life.

Anyways, there's my three. Your turn.

corntrollio says

Bap33 says

are you suggesting that Christianity comes from Catholicism?

Well, there's also the Orthodox/Catholic split to consider, but hell yeah it does. Every Protestant faith was spun out of Catholicism. The bible covers this too -- St. Peter, the rock on which the church was built (aka Cephas in Greek).

I realize that fundies have a big problem with Catholics and have run across fundamentalist preachers saying insane stuff about Catholics before, so that's why I asked.

umm, well, you are wrong. Folks that believed that Jesus was Christ were here before he even got here. But, we can skip those folks and go to the folks that believed Jesus was the Christ while he was walking around the planet as God-in-a-bod. All of those people that beleived Jesus was the Christ at that time, were Christians. The story you tell about Peter, is odd. It suggests that you believe in the NT Bible and it's beginings. Or, that you want to just keep telling me I am an idiot for knowing some of this stuff. The time you waste searching for info is wasted. Pick up the Bible - you may like the KJV or New American Standard. Read Genesis, read leviticus, read Mathew, Mark, Luke, and read Revelations. That's about 3 nights of evening reading. You may enjoy the stories.

Christians were here before any Catholic rules and traditions that are 100% not allowed in the Bible.
The Rosery is a chanted prayer - that is not how God wants us to pray.
The Virgin Mary is held up and worshiped and prayed to - that is not allowed by God.
There are men called saints and worshiped and prayed to - that is not allowed by God.
There are men who are supposed to listen to your confession - that is not what God says to do.
They want you to pay to have prayer for dead family members to be removed from "Purgatory" - that is not Biblical at all.
They beleive a priest forgives sin - the Bible says no.
They desplay statues to be focused on in prayer - God said no graven images.
They depect angels and God in art - God said not to make art about things in Heaven.

The whole "dont eat meat on Friday" thing was pulled from thin air to help the starving Italian fisherman.

The entire Pope, Cardinal, Biship, Friar, Father, Priest system is a man made pile of nothingness. There is no Biblical base for any of it.

BUT, do not misunderstand, I do beleive there are many Catholics that will be saved by the blood of Christ, despite the wrong lessons they are being taught. THe heart will be judged, not the actions, I think.

Bap33 says

It suggests that you believe in the NT Bible and it's beginings.

Bap33 says

read Revelations

Revelations is in the New Testament, and the King James has the New Testament too.

Anyway, you have your own beliefs, which is fine, but it's not based on any known history and completely unsupported by evidence (just like your nonsense about icecaps). No real point arguing with a fundamentalist and their warped views anyway. No surprise that you have so much hatred for Catholicism based on a bunch of man-made rules (just like every other religion), just like every other fundamentalist I've met (including those guys who breach about homosexuality on college campuses).

lol ... weakest punt ever. Are you drunk already, or what?

Truthplease says

Bap33 says

Or, that you want to just keep telling me I am an idiot for knowing some of this stuff.

Icebergs floating in the atmosphere, no issues there.

lol, I never said that was Biblical dude. Fight fair.

Truthplease says

I believe in evil in this world. I have seen it myself. The evil in man.

I agree. 100%

And I agree with most of what you wrote too.
I'm not a simpleton, I was just putting up examples of activities that are positive and yet -- wait for it -- are not religious and have nothing to do with sitting in a room full of people singing songs (not that there is anything wrong with that)

As for the deviant sexual nature of man and your view of, "they are born that way" ... true, they are either born with a birth defect that results in mixed up body chemestry, or they are born perverted sexually. But, controlling urges is what it takes for a free society to work correctly. If a guy was born with the urge to kill people, he has to control it or society has to be protected from it. Same for rape, same for theft, same for cutting in line, same for stopping at green lights and speeding through red ones, ... the point being that there MUST be limitations on behavior, no matter what birth defect is triggering the behavior, or else society suffers.

I do not suggest drawing pix of mhmd. The crazy arabs will hunt you down and chop off your head. That is some scary stuff.

What God wants by Truth Please. Go.

Truthplease says

Bap33 says

His death covers the debt that all other men owe to God for not following the law.

Completly ignorant! Jesus Christ.

Bap33 says

Christians were here before any Catholic rules and traditions that are 100% not allowed in the Bible.

And you backtalk.

About the first part: I am right, and not ignorant. Jesus' blood was spilled for the sins of man. You know the verse, it's really popular at the ballpark where a rainbow wig guy carries the signage. Are you suggesting something else?

About the second part: I don't understand the "back talk" thing.

outside? for what? You challenged my comment to corn, if you bother to read it.

I have no trouble having a freindly discussion. I don't really get off on pretending to be all manly and cyber-tuff. Feel free to debate, not hate.

Traveling the world is not needed to experience the dark side of humanity. I don't see where exchanging scars we earned will do much, since there is not fact or proof tied to anything we share. If you choose to believe me, then believe this, I know death, murder, rape, dismemberment, first hand, up close and personal. I know fight to survive, as well as fight for honor, as well as fight for prizes. So, I do know my soul, and I do know the things man can do to man.

So far, central mexifornia has been the prime location for my life experiences.

The reason the crazy arabs going after your head for drawing a picture is scarry is not because of the crazy arabs, nor the threat of death, what is scary is the fact that progressive/liberal/leftists in America want to defend the actions of the crazy arabs as long as the chopped head is from a Jew or straight, white, male.

I don't play shooting games. I only play chess and an old racing game. And Gardens of Time of FB, I enjoy the searching game on there.

the last thing I would ever want my posts to do is cause any real stress or harm for anyone. I do not challenge your chosen way to have a relationship with God. That is personal.

Bap33 says

Feel free to debate, not hate.

From another thread Bap says:

The mental disorder required to allow such absurd excuses to go unquestioned is sometimes called liberalism. Depending of what the definition of is, is.

From above:
Bap33 says

what is scary is the fact that progressive/liberal/leftists in America want to defend the actions of the crazy arabs as long as the chopped head is from a Jew or straight, white, male.

Bap, to troll you need to be at least as subtle as Shrek. YOu're just trolling yourself now, and bragging about how much ignorance and hate you possess.

Now all we need is something about sexual deviants and the invaders to you know, round this out.

Pointing out the facts about those who suffer from progressive/liberal/leftist disorder is not hate. You sure do like to try to hang your own personal definition on each word, a common trait with those who suffer from the disorder.

No hate here. Check your own pockets.

I didn't do the first two. I lost my job and lost my house, but never declared BR and was well within my means until the huge layoff of '92. I paid my tax debt for the loan forgiven, something todays forcloure people do not have to do. Some credit for 'ol Bap on that point please! lol

I did the 3rd one, but re-fied into a conventional note as soon as I could (6 month mark)

I live a pretty conservative life, and make an honest attempt to be kind, and of good character in my dealings, so I may not fully understand what you mean on #4

On the 5th point, I don't fully understand how you come to the conclusion that I do not understand/support/embrace personal responsibility and accountablity, based on some bantering on a blog. If that conclusion is based on my posts, then I am at fault for having given you the wrong impression.

Hate Free, the way to be, like Bap33 (that could be chanted on WallStreet! lol)

Bap33 says

Hate Free, the way to be, like Bap33

I'm not so sure that your definition of "hate free" is the same as that of the average person. Your posts certainly don't promote tolerance, peace & love.
Bap33 says

Pointing out the facts about those who suffer from progressive/liberal/leftist disorder is not hate. You sure do like to try to hang your own personal definition on each word, a common trait with those who suffer from the disorder.

"facts?" Really? Your opinion is not factual at all - it's merely your reality, and it's mean spirited in many instances.

Bap33 says

You have a very unique view, but it was provided for you.

It's difficult to take you seriously when you make such a stupid comment. I'm gonna stop trying to make sense of what you're spewing.

Vicente says

elliemae says

Then throw the live baby covered in test tubes out the window and it'll be caught by the fire department that is waiting outside.

I like the way you think outside the box.

Thanks. I try to be as accurate as possible in such a realistic scenario.

elliemae says

Bap33 says

You have a very unique view, but it was provided for you.
It's difficult to take you seriously when you make such a stupid comment. I'm gonna stop trying to make sense of what you're spewing.

Stupid comment? I am suggesting that your view (position in life, the world, the universe, time itself) was provided, fixed, situated, in-the-cards, for you (by God). I don't know why that offended you, but I was not "spewing" anything negative. Please read the entire entry, I was showing how unique each person's view would be (at least, I was trying to). Accuse me of poor writing skills, not poor manners.

How can you give an opinion about my opinion and suggest your opinion is valid while mine is not? Are not all opinions the same? I pointed out facts, in my opinion. You think I'm stupid, in your opinion. Pretty sure that's just how it goes. Aint it?

BAP:
One cannot have a unique view if it has been provided for them. It was a stupid comment and indicative of a person who lacks the ability to understand something as simple as the difference between opinion and fact. I'd also like to take this opportunity to point out that it's simply not possible for one to point out facts (in their opinion).

Bap33 says

I was showing how unique each person's view would be (at least, I was trying to). Accuse me of poor writing skills, not poor manners.

Thank you for your permission to accuse you of poor writing skills. However, your problem is your lack of ability to communicate combined with your lack of ability to accept that many people don't believe in your God, do not share your hatred of what you've decided is "liberal," and don't appreciate the mean spirited comments you attempt to pass off in an "aw, shucks" manner.

elliemae says

I'm gonna stop trying to make sense of what you're spewing.

I am pretty sure you can be given a unique view, without much trouble. For example, if you were to step up on a chair, your view becomes unique, but that chair came from someplace. If that chair is in a room, the room came from someplace. They were provided to you at just the right place and time to give you that unique perspective. And if I walk in while you are on that chair, in that room, at a particular time and lift the chair above my head I have given you a unique view .... a view that is all yours, given to you .... a view of life, planet, room, chair, ect ect.

It's as if your faking a lack of understanding just so you can be negative in your response. No need for that. Feeling that it is mean for someone to take issue with things you find comfort in, is not all that rare, so I do not hold that against you. I do the same thing.

my God is the God and your God and everyone's God. God's existance does not require anyone's belief. And, as it turns out, just beliving in God is nothing special. Satan knows God, has been in his presence, and failed. So "belief" in God is pretty much a given. But, just belief don't cut the mustard where the God issue is concerned.... in my opinion! lol

aw shucks? interesting.

Bap33 says

Depending of what the definition of is, is

Being the genius you are, you probably think this is some kind general indictment of the way "liberals" are.

Not that you will listen, or comprehend this, but just to remind others of the context. Republicans were on a long witch hunt against Clinton.

They finally found something real that he had done, and it was bad, although many normal people (you know, the ones Bap says have a mental disorder) would question whether it was really any of our our business. And of course, it wasn't part of the original reason for the special prosecutor.

This was a sin in Clinton's personal life. Bap can probably explain why this was also a sin against the people, that was worthy of a special prosecutor's focus.

(now you have something to respond to rather than understanding my point).

Here's the point: Clinton was somewhat cornered and probably should have fessed up right away, but instead he said "There is no improper relationship."

Later he claimed this was not a lie, unless by "is" he had meant there isn't and never was.

Shocking that the president would not want to fess up for such a transgression in his personal life.

Interesting that in this day and age, where so many AMericans constantly lie, nobody would have said anything if he had just said, "I said there is no relationship, and that was true when I said it," people would have understood why he said that and what he meant.

But when they got that awesome quote, "it depends on what the definition of is is." That was a stupid thing for Clinton to say. Now it's quoted by dimbulbs like Bap, with only half an idea what the context was, they just think it's a really sweet indictment of the behavior of liberals. And since Clinton was and is so intelligent, it makes this all the sweeter. "hey, he may be way up there in intelligence, but he said "it depends on what the meaning of is, is." So now I can feel superior.

MAybe this is how Bush learned to say literally hundreds of really stupid things, you know, so there would not be just one that was quoted and that he would be known for.

Nobody was or is going to overmisunderestimate Bush.