patrick.net

errc invited errc to fact-check this discussion.

Invite another expert to fact-check this discussion.

Maybe instead of just deleting the comment, I should replace it with "Comment deleted by robertoaribas" (or whoever deleted it)?

And should I send an email to the person whose comment was deleted, saying "robertoaribas deleted this comment of yours: ..."?

What I expect and hope will happen is that people will stop posting on the threads whose moderators regularly delete their comments. Instead, they will just post to the threads of known good moderators (meaning moderators who welcome polite disagreement).

A course in /b should be required before posting at Pat.net

Trolls abound here and post deletion is one of the more hillarious tactics trolls use.

The Professor says

I recall deleting a couple of your messages and noting "Deleted for profanity". I also deleted a couple for inanity. I also recall deleting you for personal attacks.

At times you do have some good things to say, often not.

Looking back at your past posts I see that you are argumentative. Your tone often makes you seem as though you would take the opposite side in any debate just so you can have a fight.

Oh, please. You started your travesty of a 9/11 thread because people were successfully debunking your nonsense in the original thread. Then you just started methodically deleting anyone who disagreed with you. Your ridiculous thread often ended up with 5-10 of your own posts in a row, because you had deleted all the others.

I find it hilarious that you, the person who simply regurgitated hundreds of items off the 9/11 Truth website, would accuse me of being disingenuous. I stand by everything I say. I do not believe 9/11 was masterminded by a secret Bush administration conspiracy. That's just ludicrous. That is my sincere belief. Also, I believe that the housing market was overinflated from the mid 2000s until around 2007, and now prices are closer to normal. It does not need to "recover", because the crash was not the aberration. The bubble was the aberration.

I think these are eminently reasonable positions to take, and why you would accuse me of taking a side I don't believe in just to have a fight, is beyond me.

What I expect and hope will happen is that people will stop posting on the threads whose moderators regularly delete their comments. Instead, they will just post to the threads of known good moderators (meaning moderators who welcome polite disagreement).

I suppose that will end up being the effect, but I think it's going to dilute the quality of your message board. I think everyone has something to contribute here - maybe some more than others - but still everyone. I don't particularly want to ignore people like Roberto and Dan; I would rather be able to refute what they say. And then if they get angry and start being rude, I think it's only fair that I should be able to give them the same in return. But I'm certainly not going to spend a lot of time writing a post just to have it deleted by some troll because he couldn't come up with a good response to it.

Should I get a premium membership and start my own threads so I can delete people's posts? No, because I don't believe in censoring other people just because they disagree with me.

If I were just hurling gratuitous insults with no other content, like Dan8267 tends to do, I could see the point of deleting the posts. But that's not even close to what I was doing. So yeah, if this is going to be the policy of the website, I don't imagine I'll be posting in any premium member's threads from now on. It's just a shame, because I think that's going to really limit things.

The Professor says

Your sophistry and long ass posts were cluttering up my thread.

See, you can't even get your story straight. First you tried to say you deleted my posts for "profanity"; now you say you deleted them for "sophistry". Perhaps they seemed like sophistry to you because what I was saying was going over your head.

Let me remind you of one of the things you deleted. I made a really great point. I quoted you, first saying "never before in history has a steel skyscraper collapsed due to fire", and later saying, "just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen". You directly contradicted your own argument. You basically blew your whole point out of the water. It was a crushing blow to your entire premise, and it came from your very own words. So how did you react? You deleted my post. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. If you can't be bothered to defend your own arguments, what does that say about your integrity?

Homeboy, you don't get it.

It's the lol intermanets. You are taking it too seriously.

I realize that Patrick attempts to run this place as a website for mostly serious discussion. But its the internet and has all the anonimity that sitting behind a keyboard provides. I guarantee you would flip out if you actually saw some of the posters in person...I am quite sure you cannot imagine....

The majority of the posters here actually do try to post coherent arguments, ideas, and opinions.

But then you also have those posters who are alcoholics, bi polar, and just general nutjobs. In real life you'd ignore these people. But for some reason because its the internet, we choose to engage them. These people are unintentional trolls. They are the ones that get one or two sentence responses from me, if at all, because they generally are not worth the effort of commenting on.

Then you have the actual troll. Pat.net posters tend to incorrectly define trolls as those who make outrageous statements and don't back them up. While this can be a troll, its not the definition of a troll. Many trolls are MUCH more clever than that. A troll is actually anyone who posts on the internet intentionally in a manner that is designed to elicit an emotional reaction.

https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Troll

Anyway, point being that your taking things WAY to seriously and fighting a battle that you won't win because the people effing with you know they are effing with you, and are absolutely loving the rise they are getting out of you.

Homeboy says

Should I get a premium membership and start my own threads so I can delete people's posts? No, because I don't believe in censoring other people just because they disagree with me.

Actually you don't even need the Premium membership for that anymore.

A week or so ago I made it so that every thread creator is the moderator of his own thread. Meaning that if you created a thread, then you can delete comments from that thread.

It was an experiment, but I think it has worked well enough to leave it that way.

Though maybe it could use improvement. Should I do these things:

1. Mail users when their thread gets deleted?
2. Instead of deleting, replace with "Thread deleted by moderator"?

Or not?

It a spam is deleted replacing it with "Thread deleted by moderator" will not help.

I think it is fine for people to censor content. Others can choose not to participate in their threads or start competing threads.

dodgerfanjohn says

Anyway, point being that your taking things WAY to seriously and fighting a battle that you won't win because the people effing with you know they are effing with you, and are absolutely loving the rise they are getting out of you.

You think so? 'Cuz I was thinking the pussies who delete other people's posts just so they can pretend to win the argument are the ones taking it a bit too seriously.

Homeboy says

Should I get a premium membership and start my own threads so I can delete people's posts? No, because I don't believe in censoring other people just because they disagree with me.

Actually you don't even need the Premium membership for that anymore.

A week or so ago I made it so that every thread creator is the moderator of his own thread. Meaning that if you created a thread, then you can delete comments from that thread.

It was an experiment, but I think it has worked well enough to leave it that way.

Though maybe it could use improvement. Should I do these things:

1. Mail users when their thread gets deleted?

2. Instead of deleting, replace with "Thread deleted by moderator"?

Or not?

Oh, now that IS unfortunate. I don't want to spend time writing posts just to have them disappear. Telling me that my post was deleted doesn't really help; that's already obvious if it is missing.

Guess I will have to re-evaluate whether I want to participate in this forum anymore.

Homeboy says

List of pussies who delete posts just so they can pretend to win an argument

You are what you eat, dickhead.

It seems like the intent was to provide a means of deleting completely useless troll posts, but the feature is being abused by a small minority of folks.

This is unfortunate, and I appreciate Homeboy for calling these folks out. The fact that they feel a need to delete posts that are contrary to their views says a lot about their credibility.

Homeboy says

Guess I will have to re-evaluate whether I want to participate in this forum anymore.

Remember that you're the one in charge of your own threads, like this one. So you can participate like that and retain control

ducsingle5313 says

The fact that they feel a need to delete posts that are contrary to their views says a lot about their credibility.

Well, yes I'm kind of hoping that the different thread authors/moderators will get differing levels of credibility, with the most tolerant and helpful thread authors/moderators rising to the top.

Homeboy says

Guess I will have to re-evaluate whether I want to participate in this forum anymore.

I think Dan is challenging you to delete that comment.

I think Dan is showing what kind of person he is.

I like the banter that goes on here. Even Call It Crazy got off a good one yesterday. But Dan... we'll he's quick to anger and unfortunately just not very clever.

The Professor says

Am I the only one that finds Homeboy annoying?

Sorry for deleting your WTC Posts Homeboy. I was new to the debate and was trying to get my thoughts clear.

Your sophistry and long ass posts were cluttering up my thread.

No, you just deleted him and others because they drew attention to the ridiculousness of your arguments. You claim to want debate and then simply delete anything that shows you in error. That isn't debate.

pat,

you should have an option where you charge 25c for the user to undelete a post, then the moderator pays 25c to delete the post, rinse, repeat, ad naseum.

welcome to the road to filthy riches!

That's hilarious. Also, you could have people buy insults. For $1 you could call someone an idiot. If you don't pay, the word gets auto-deleted. You could charge $2 for 4-letter words.

Hysteresis says

pat,

you should have an option where you charge 25c for the user to undelete a post, then the moderator pays 25c to delete the post, rinse, repeat, ad naseum.

welcome to the road to filthy riches!

That is brilliant, but what if the moderator just wants to delete a spam comment?

Homeboy says

That's hilarious. Also, you could have people buy insults. For $1 you could call someone an idiot. If you don't pay, the word gets auto-deleted. You could charge $2 for 4-letter words.

I did try a feature where you could put a steaming pile of shit on top of a comment for $1, but no one used it at all. :-(

Homeboy says

Let me remind you of one of the things you deleted. I made a really great point. I quoted you, first saying "never before in history has a steel skyscraper collapsed due to fire", and later saying, "just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't happen". You directly contradicted your own argument. You basically blew your whole point out of the water. It was a crushing blow to your entire premise, and it came from your very own words. So how did you react? You deleted my post. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. If you can't be bothered to defend your own arguments, what does that say about your integrity?

Yep, I remember this discussion and when I called shenanigans on The Prof for rampant deletions for the crime of disagreeing (very few if any of the posts in that discussion had "profanity...inanity...[or] personal attacks") with him/her.

Then my post got deleted.

What I expect and hope will happen is that people will stop posting on the threads whose moderators regularly delete their comments.

This is exactly why I ignore threads posted by The Professor.

Should thread authors perhaps have some public "deletion propensity" score so that commenters could tell how likely it is that any comment they compose will be deleted?

Eg: "This author has deleted 2% of all comments on his threads..."

O.K., I guess the mob has spoken. I will go ahead and delete posts from my threads that I don't like. But I'm leaving Dan's up for the time being, because it shows what a trolling asshole he is.

Homeboy says

I don't like. But I'm leaving Dan's up for the time being, because it shows what a trolling asshole he is.

I may be an asshole, but you are the troll. That's why you are one of only two or three people I've ever deleted posts of. And most of the deletions were you spamming the same damn message over and over. That's troll behavior.

Btw, assholes are welcome in my threads. Trolls aren't. Assholes may take the piss out of people, but trolls are the ones who disrupt conversations and try to cause aggravation. Perhaps some day you'll understand the difference.

Does it matter?

Dan8267 says

I may be an asshole, but you are the troll. That's why you are one of only two or three people I've ever deleted posts of. And most of the deletions were you spamming the same damn message over and over. That's troll behavior.

No it's not. First of all, what you're talking about is ONE post, not "most of the deletions". You deleted a whole bunch of my posts in various threads of yours, usually because I pointed out something you couldn't defend, like your paranoid insistence that you personally are "getting screwed" on health insurance. The only reason you haven't done it lately is because I stopped posting in any of your threads after I realized what a pompous twit you are.

The one post you are talking about was my response to a silly, sarcastic jab. You can't justify deleting my post but not the post I was responding to. You only deleted so I wouldn't have the last word. You seem to take things so seriously, I thought it would be funny to see how many times you would delete the same post. You kind of have an obsession with getting the last word. You were on the boards every day, and sometimes several times a day, just to make sure you deleted my post. If it bothered you that much, all you had to do was delete the post before it, and then I wouldn't have had anything to respond to. So you can't claim any moral high ground here, I'm sorry to say. Maybe you should try to relax a little; you might have more fun. Maybe don't worry so much about whether you get the last word. You might live longer.

Btw, assholes are welcome in my threads.

As long as they're on your side. But if anyone disagrees with you, then you flip out and start deleting.

Lol! Anyway I like Patrick's idea. I have deleted some of my comments, because the were redundant (I discover later). Hmmm...

People deleting their own posts are fine with me.
What bothers me, is when people delete someone's post, then quotes the deleted post. That's as low as it goes.

I agree with Patrick: don't post on threads started by people who are trolls or willy nilly post deleters. If their posts get few comments, perhaps they will get discouraged and go away.
I think you should add this 121212 guy to your list of deleters. He's flagrant about deleting comments that he doesn't agree with.
I did delete one of his posts on my thread, but it was because not only was it a personal attack on another poster, but it was a repeated statement. Totally unnecessary.

American in Japan says

Lol! Anyway I like Patrick's idea. I have deleted some of my comments, because the were redundant (I discover later). Hmmm...

Not to worry, deleting your own comments won't count.

OK, I will make a measure of comments deleted per comments posted by user and put it at the top of a thread.

I also promised to add polls to threads too, so maybe I should do that first. I think poll results should not be visible until you've answered, lest social pressure skew the results. Or maybe the results should not be visible until the poll closes.

Stop moaning and start your own threads! Simple solution.

Ooh polls, yes.... we need custom polls.

Homeboy says

The Professor says

I recall deleting a couple of your messages and noting "Deleted for profanity". I also deleted a couple for inanity. I also recall deleting you for personal attacks.
At times you do have some good things to say, often not.
Looking back at your past posts I see that you are argumentative. Your tone often makes you seem as though you would take the opposite side in any debate just so you can have a fight.
Oh, please. You started your travesty of a 9/11 thread because people were successfully debunking your nonsense in the original thread. Then you just started methodically deleting anyone who disagreed with you. Your ridiculous thread often ended up with 5-10 of your own posts in a row, because you had deleted all the others.

Out of curiosity, did The Professor just delete this post he made to defend against the accusation that he has a history of deleting posts?

I don't think I deleted your post, Professor. If I did it was an accident. If you read back up the thread, I said that I've decided to join the crowd and go ahead and delete posts I don't like, since the mob has spoken and very few people seem to care about the issue. I have already deleted some of Dan's posts because he has nothing to say. He just wants to be a little troll bitch. If you do the same, I will not hesitate to delete your comments as well. But I still haven't deleted any comments from people just because they bested me in an argument, like you do all the time.

I don't see the harm in allowing people to moderate their own posts. Those who delete just to win will be weeded out.

But some people really go overboard with their attacks, and Patrick can't be expected to referee everything that goes on.

There used to be an "anything goes" section of the forums for people to post whatever garbage they wanted to. Maybe consider bringing that back and locking it from deletions?

BTW, Patrick has gone to great lengths to keep free speech a mainstay of this site. It's not like he just pulled the trigger on this idea, I think it's been in the works for a while.

Yes, the thing that bothers me the most is when a user complains that it's not enough to ignore another user, or to moderate their own threads. They want that other user completely removed so that no one at all can read his comments.

Really, only spam and non-protected speech should be deleted. If a comment offends me, it is just me allowing myself to be offended. Freedom of speech is an important thing.